What was a reason for God to sacrifice His Son?

[Taz]

As far as I am aware, according to Christian beliefs after Adam's fall all humanity became sinful and doomed to perdition. Then Son of God was sent by Father to save mankind and give eternal live for those believing in Him.

‌Why was all this needed? Why didnt God simply send a prophet with instructions how people can save themselves? Why did God have a need to make sacrifice for himself?

All of Gods ways are justice( Deuteronomy 32:4)-- He showed all his justice scales-- an eye for an eye- perfect balance.

A sinless mortal( Adam) rebelled and sinned, losing a good standing for mortals with God. God hates sin.
A perfect mortal( Jesus) lived a sinless existence, yet paid in full the wages of sin= death. He did not owe that death-this is the ransom sacrifice he handed to his Father in heaven at his ascencion. Opening the door to all. Few find the path Jesus taught. Few believe Jesus over dogmas.

Can you tell me what you believe sin is or means?

Sin = anything in opposition to Gods will. Sin = worship to satan.

How do you know God’s will?

Its in the bible.

But some guys just made the whole thing up, like the flood. Noah couldn't have gotten kangaroos on his ark and back again, it would defy reality.

 

[Taz]

Can you show me where the church says that?

It’s in the bible.

Can you show me where it's in the Bible?

You have to study the bible to find out. It’s in the stories about Jesus.

Show me where, TN.

Go sin no more is the bottom line. Like these sins found at 1Corinthians 6:9-11, Galations 5:19-21--along with the false god worship on earth and pagan practices off the table of demons= 99% on earth do these things daily. Because 99% of all religion is false including 99% of all religion claiming to be Christian.
The blind guides tell those who do those sins--you are saved or born again in the false Christian religions. And they believe those teachers over Gods written word. Not a wise path to walk.

Who says it's god's written word?

 

[Taz]

It’s in the bible.

Can you show me where it's in the Bible?

You have to study the bible to find out. It’s in the stories about Jesus.

Show me where, TN.

Go sin no more is the bottom line. Like these sins found at 1Corinthians 6:9-11, Galations 5:19-21--along with the false god worship on earth and pagan practices off the table of demons= 99% on earth do these things daily. Because 99% of all religion is false including 99% of all religion claiming to be Christian.
The blind guides tell those who do those sins--you are saved or born again in the false Christian religions. And they believe those teachers over Gods written word. Not a wise path to walk.

Salvation works from the inside out. Our Spirit is born again, not our flesh. We continue to sin, but if we are really saved and keep following Jesus, we will become more like him. It's a process.

So what happens to my soul if i don't follow jesus?

 

[Penelope]

Can you show me where the church says that?

It’s in the bible.

Can you show me where it's in the Bible?

You have to study the bible to find out. It’s in the stories about Jesus.

Show me where, TN.

Go sin no more is the bottom line. Like these sins found at 1Corinthians 6:9-11, Galations 5:19-21--along with the false god worship on earth and pagan practices off the table of demons= 99% on earth do these things daily. Because 99% of all religion is false including 99% of all religion claiming to be Christian.
The blind guides tell those who do those sins--you are saved or born again in the false Christian religions. And they believe those teachers over Gods written word. Not a wise path to walk.

Um, may I ask what is God's written word?

 

[Penelope]

It’s in the bible.

Can you show me where it's in the Bible?

You have to study the bible to find out. It’s in the stories about Jesus.

Show me where, TN.

Go sin no more is the bottom line. Like these sins found at 1Corinthians 6:9-11, Galations 5:19-21--along with the false god worship on earth and pagan practices off the table of demons= 99% on earth do these things daily. Because 99% of all religion is false including 99% of all religion claiming to be Christian.
The blind guides tell those who do those sins--you are saved or born again in the false Christian religions. And they believe those teachers over Gods written word. Not a wise path to walk.

Salvation works from the inside out. Our Spirit is born again, not our flesh. We continue to sin, but if we are really saved and keep following Jesus, we will become more like him. It's a process.

Why do you continue to sin?

 

[BS Filter]

Can you show me where it's in the Bible?

You have to study the bible to find out. It’s in the stories about Jesus.

Show me where, TN.

Go sin no more is the bottom line. Like these sins found at 1Corinthians 6:9-11, Galations 5:19-21--along with the false god worship on earth and pagan practices off the table of demons= 99% on earth do these things daily. Because 99% of all religion is false including 99% of all religion claiming to be Christian.
The blind guides tell those who do those sins--you are saved or born again in the false Christian religions. And they believe those teachers over Gods written word. Not a wise path to walk.

Salvation works from the inside out. Our Spirit is born again, not our flesh. We continue to sin, but if we are really saved and keep following Jesus, we will become more like him. It's a process.

Why do you continue to sin?

Paul addressed that very subject in Romans. The flesh is always tempting us. There is a battle going on in our soul realm. Man is three parts. Spirit, soul and flesh. Our spirit is what is born again by the Spirit of God, but our flesh is still subject to the temptations of life and sin. The soul, which is our mind, will and emotions is the battle ground. Do a thorough study of the book of Romans.

 

[Cecilie1200]

As far as I am aware, according to Christian beliefs after Adam's fall all humanity became sinful and doomed to perdition. Then Son of God was sent by Father to save mankind and give eternal live for those believing in Him.

‌Why was all this needed? Why didnt God simply send a prophet with instructions how people can save themselves? Why did God have a need to make sacrifice for himself?

First disclaimer: I hope you're not looking for this to be a quick, glib, bumper-sticker synopsis of theology, because it doesn't really work that way.

Second disclaimer: I suspect the complete answer to this question involves knowledge about the universe and the nature of God that we're not privy to at this time.

Now, having said that, I think there is a lot of nuance to Christianity, issues and questions that theologians have debated for centuries, that you're pretty much glossing over or missing entirely. Let me give you my take on it. As CS Lewis said about his explanations, if it helps you, run with it. If not, feel free to discard it entirely.

As I see it, what Adam's fall really did was awaken mankind to the sinful side of his own nature, and the down side to free will, ie. the ability and desire to choose to disobey God, and thus move ourselves farther away from Him spiritually. The problem, of course, is the eventual, ultimate end of that scenario. Now, before you jump to conclusions as to what the end is, let me explain my take on THAT.

In "The Screwtape Letters", CS Lewis said that in the end, everything in the universe will either be claimed by God or by Satan, God on the "pedantic" grounds that He created it, or Satan on the more "dynamic" grounds of conquest. Now, admittedly, Lewis was speaking from the perspective of a demon for the purposes of the book's premise, so the viewpoint is a bit skewed by that, but the way I see it, when we die, our souls go to and become part of one side or the other. Think of it, if you will, as Buddhism without reincarnation, sort of a Nirvana and Anti-Nirvana.

Okay, now the choices that you make in life with that free will are going to move you closer to one side or the other. But it's not as simple as just "I did something wrong, I'm sorry, forgive me", because those choices leave a mark on your soul, they change who you are. And they create a . . . oh, a sort of magnetism that draws you toward more of the same kind of choices. The more you make decisions to behave as a good person, the more you BECOME a good person, and the easier it is for you to choose that path the next time a decision has to be made; likewise, the more you allow yourself to behave badly, the easier it becomes to make the wrong choice the next time.

It takes something kinda big and metaphysical to wipe away the marks on your soul made by the bad decisions you've made. Sometimes I think of it in the same light as making a New Year's resolution: you announce your decision to make a change (even if you're announcing it just to yourself) because it makes it more real, more solid, more committed. I'm pretty sure there's more to it in this case, but it's that general idea. Prior to Jesus' birth as a human, the Israelites signified that commitment to abandoning disobedience and cleansing away the dark stains on their souls by sacrificing an animal, sort of a smaller death to symbolize the larger death that would be the ultimate end of continuing the path of dark and disobedient choices.

Ultimately, though, this isn't how God wanted it to be, the relationship between us and Him hemmed in by the constant need for ritual and strained by the constant pulling of our darker nature away from Him. So Jesus agreed to come to Earth, live as a human, die as a human, and be resurrected as the deity He truly was, a sort of "one time pays for all" sacrifice to take the place of all those smaller, stopgap sacrifices, one Ultimate death for Him to replace all the ultimate deaths for us. Basically, the cumulative bad choices we have all made, or all will make, would have made us part of the dark, the Anti-Nirvana, the property of Satan, however you want to think of it. We doomed ourselves in eternity through our choices in life. Instead, Jesus took that doom, the consequences of our choices, the stains on our souls, onto Himself.

Fundamentalist Christian sects teach that when He died, he actually did go to Hell, just as we would absent the sacrifice to wipe away the marks on our souls. But because He was, in His spiritual essence, God and not a regular human, He was able to win Himself free and be resurrected and returned to Heaven. Go with it or don't, as you please. But then end result is that the consequences of our choices have now been paid forward for us.

 

[RWNJ]

As far as I am aware, according to Christian beliefs after Adam's fall all humanity became sinful and doomed to perdition. Then Son of God was sent by Father to save mankind and give eternal live for those believing in Him.

‌Why was all this needed? Why didnt God simply send a prophet with instructions how people can save themselves? Why did God have a need to make sacrifice for himself?

First disclaimer: I hope you're not looking for this to be a quick, glib, bumper-sticker synopsis of theology, because it doesn't really work that way.

Second disclaimer: I suspect the complete answer to this question involves knowledge about the universe and the nature of God that we're not privy to at this time.

Now, having said that, I think there is a lot of nuance to Christianity, issues and questions that theologians have debated for centuries, that you're pretty much glossing over or missing entirely. Let me give you my take on it. As CS Lewis said about his explanations, if it helps you, run with it. If not, feel free to discard it entirely.

As I see it, what Adam's fall really did was awaken mankind to the sinful side of his own nature, and the down side to free will, ie. the ability and desire to choose to disobey God, and thus move ourselves farther away from Him spiritually. The problem, of course, is the eventual, ultimate end of that scenario. Now, before you jump to conclusions as to what the end is, let me explain my take on THAT.

In "The Screwtape Letters", CS Lewis said that in the end, everything in the universe will either be claimed by God or by Satan, God on the "pedantic" grounds that He created it, or Satan on the more "dynamic" grounds of conquest. Now, admittedly, Lewis was speaking from the perspective of a demon for the purposes of the book's premise, so the viewpoint is a bit skewed by that, but the way I see it, when we die, our souls go to and become part of one side or the other. Think of it, if you will, as Buddhism without reincarnation, sort of a Nirvana and Anti-Nirvana.

Okay, now the choices that you make in life with that free will are going to move you closer to one side or the other. But it's not as simple as just "I did something wrong, I'm sorry, forgive me", because those choices leave a mark on your soul, they change who you are. And they create a . . . oh, a sort of magnetism that draws you toward more of the same kind of choices. The more you make decisions to behave as a good person, the more you BECOME a good person, and the easier it is for you to choose that path the next time a decision has to be made; likewise, the more you allow yourself to behave badly, the easier it becomes to make the wrong choice the next time.

It takes something kinda big and metaphysical to wipe away the marks on your soul made by the bad decisions you've made. Sometimes I think of it in the same light as making a New Year's resolution: you announce your decision to make a change (even if you're announcing it just to yourself) because it makes it more real, more solid, more committed. I'm pretty sure there's more to it in this case, but it's that general idea. Prior to Jesus' birth as a human, the Israelites signified that commitment to abandoning disobedience and cleansing away the dark stains on their souls by sacrificing an animal, sort of a smaller death to symbolize the larger death that would be the ultimate end of continuing the path of dark and disobedient choices.

Ultimately, though, this isn't how God wanted it to be, the relationship between us and Him hemmed in by the constant need for ritual and strained by the constant pulling of our darker nature away from Him. So Jesus agreed to come to Earth, live as a human, die as a human, and be resurrected as the deity He truly was, a sort of "one time pays for all" sacrifice to take the place of all those smaller, stopgap sacrifices, one Ultimate death for Him to replace all the ultimate deaths for us. Basically, the cumulative bad choices we have all made, or all will make, would have made us part of the dark, the Anti-Nirvana, the property of Satan, however you want to think of it. We doomed ourselves in eternity through our choices in life. Instead, Jesus took that doom, the consequences of our choices, the stains on our souls, onto Himself.

Fundamentalist Christian sects teach that when He died, he actually did go to Hell, just as we would absent the sacrifice to wipe away the marks on our souls. But because He was, in His spiritual essence, God and not a regular human, He was able to win Himself free and be resurrected and returned to Heaven. Go with it or don't, as you please. But then end result is that the consequences of our choices have now been paid forward for us.

Jesus is the only One who matters. It is through His sacrifice that we can have a right standing before God. Whenever God mentions our sins, Jesus says..."It's OK. I've got it covered."

 

[Cecilie1200]

As far as I am aware, according to Christian beliefs after Adam's fall all humanity became sinful and doomed to perdition. Then Son of God was sent by Father to save mankind and give eternal live for those believing in Him.

‌Why was all this needed? Why didnt God simply send a prophet with instructions how people can save themselves? Why did God have a need to make sacrifice for himself?

First disclaimer: I hope you're not looking for this to be a quick, glib, bumper-sticker synopsis of theology, because it doesn't really work that way.

Second disclaimer: I suspect the complete answer to this question involves knowledge about the universe and the nature of God that we're not privy to at this time.

Now, having said that, I think there is a lot of nuance to Christianity, issues and questions that theologians have debated for centuries, that you're pretty much glossing over or missing entirely. Let me give you my take on it. As CS Lewis said about his explanations, if it helps you, run with it. If not, feel free to discard it entirely.

As I see it, what Adam's fall really did was awaken mankind to the sinful side of his own nature, and the down side to free will, ie. the ability and desire to choose to disobey God, and thus move ourselves farther away from Him spiritually. The problem, of course, is the eventual, ultimate end of that scenario. Now, before you jump to conclusions as to what the end is, let me explain my take on THAT.

In "The Screwtape Letters", CS Lewis said that in the end, everything in the universe will either be claimed by God or by Satan, God on the "pedantic" grounds that He created it, or Satan on the more "dynamic" grounds of conquest. Now, admittedly, Lewis was speaking from the perspective of a demon for the purposes of the book's premise, so the viewpoint is a bit skewed by that, but the way I see it, when we die, our souls go to and become part of one side or the other. Think of it, if you will, as Buddhism without reincarnation, sort of a Nirvana and Anti-Nirvana.

Okay, now the choices that you make in life with that free will are going to move you closer to one side or the other. But it's not as simple as just "I did something wrong, I'm sorry, forgive me", because those choices leave a mark on your soul, they change who you are. And they create a . . . oh, a sort of magnetism that draws you toward more of the same kind of choices. The more you make decisions to behave as a good person, the more you BECOME a good person, and the easier it is for you to choose that path the next time a decision has to be made; likewise, the more you allow yourself to behave badly, the easier it becomes to make the wrong choice the next time.

It takes something kinda big and metaphysical to wipe away the marks on your soul made by the bad decisions you've made. Sometimes I think of it in the same light as making a New Year's resolution: you announce your decision to make a change (even if you're announcing it just to yourself) because it makes it more real, more solid, more committed. I'm pretty sure there's more to it in this case, but it's that general idea. Prior to Jesus' birth as a human, the Israelites signified that commitment to abandoning disobedience and cleansing away the dark stains on their souls by sacrificing an animal, sort of a smaller death to symbolize the larger death that would be the ultimate end of continuing the path of dark and disobedient choices.

Ultimately, though, this isn't how God wanted it to be, the relationship between us and Him hemmed in by the constant need for ritual and strained by the constant pulling of our darker nature away from Him. So Jesus agreed to come to Earth, live as a human, die as a human, and be resurrected as the deity He truly was, a sort of "one time pays for all" sacrifice to take the place of all those smaller, stopgap sacrifices, one Ultimate death for Him to replace all the ultimate deaths for us. Basically, the cumulative bad choices we have all made, or all will make, would have made us part of the dark, the Anti-Nirvana, the property of Satan, however you want to think of it. We doomed ourselves in eternity through our choices in life. Instead, Jesus took that doom, the consequences of our choices, the stains on our souls, onto Himself.

Fundamentalist Christian sects teach that when He died, he actually did go to Hell, just as we would absent the sacrifice to wipe away the marks on our souls. But because He was, in His spiritual essence, God and not a regular human, He was able to win Himself free and be resurrected and returned to Heaven. Go with it or don't, as you please. But then end result is that the consequences of our choices have now been paid forward for us.

Jesus is the only One who matters. It is through His sacrifice that we can have a right standing before God. Whenever God mentions our sins, Jesus says..."It's OK. I've got it covered."

I'm trying to explain this in a way that a non-believer can understand, without "insider" jargon and slogans, and without making jumps that assume understanding that probably isn't actually there.

 

[BS Filter]

The way I see it, we owed a debt we couldn't pay. Jesus paid it. We don't owe a thing. All we have to do is believe. That's grace, unearned favor.

 

[RWNJ]

As far as I am aware, according to Christian beliefs after Adam's fall all humanity became sinful and doomed to perdition. Then Son of God was sent by Father to save mankind and give eternal live for those believing in Him.

‌Why was all this needed? Why didnt God simply send a prophet with instructions how people can save themselves? Why did God have a need to make sacrifice for himself?

First disclaimer: I hope you're not looking for this to be a quick, glib, bumper-sticker synopsis of theology, because it doesn't really work that way.

Second disclaimer: I suspect the complete answer to this question involves knowledge about the universe and the nature of God that we're not privy to at this time.

Now, having said that, I think there is a lot of nuance to Christianity, issues and questions that theologians have debated for centuries, that you're pretty much glossing over or missing entirely. Let me give you my take on it. As CS Lewis said about his explanations, if it helps you, run with it. If not, feel free to discard it entirely.

As I see it, what Adam's fall really did was awaken mankind to the sinful side of his own nature, and the down side to free will, ie. the ability and desire to choose to disobey God, and thus move ourselves farther away from Him spiritually. The problem, of course, is the eventual, ultimate end of that scenario. Now, before you jump to conclusions as to what the end is, let me explain my take on THAT.

In "The Screwtape Letters", CS Lewis said that in the end, everything in the universe will either be claimed by God or by Satan, God on the "pedantic" grounds that He created it, or Satan on the more "dynamic" grounds of conquest. Now, admittedly, Lewis was speaking from the perspective of a demon for the purposes of the book's premise, so the viewpoint is a bit skewed by that, but the way I see it, when we die, our souls go to and become part of one side or the other. Think of it, if you will, as Buddhism without reincarnation, sort of a Nirvana and Anti-Nirvana.

Okay, now the choices that you make in life with that free will are going to move you closer to one side or the other. But it's not as simple as just "I did something wrong, I'm sorry, forgive me", because those choices leave a mark on your soul, they change who you are. And they create a . . . oh, a sort of magnetism that draws you toward more of the same kind of choices. The more you make decisions to behave as a good person, the more you BECOME a good person, and the easier it is for you to choose that path the next time a decision has to be made; likewise, the more you allow yourself to behave badly, the easier it becomes to make the wrong choice the next time.

It takes something kinda big and metaphysical to wipe away the marks on your soul made by the bad decisions you've made. Sometimes I think of it in the same light as making a New Year's resolution: you announce your decision to make a change (even if you're announcing it just to yourself) because it makes it more real, more solid, more committed. I'm pretty sure there's more to it in this case, but it's that general idea. Prior to Jesus' birth as a human, the Israelites signified that commitment to abandoning disobedience and cleansing away the dark stains on their souls by sacrificing an animal, sort of a smaller death to symbolize the larger death that would be the ultimate end of continuing the path of dark and disobedient choices.

Ultimately, though, this isn't how God wanted it to be, the relationship between us and Him hemmed in by the constant need for ritual and strained by the constant pulling of our darker nature away from Him. So Jesus agreed to come to Earth, live as a human, die as a human, and be resurrected as the deity He truly was, a sort of "one time pays for all" sacrifice to take the place of all those smaller, stopgap sacrifices, one Ultimate death for Him to replace all the ultimate deaths for us. Basically, the cumulative bad choices we have all made, or all will make, would have made us part of the dark, the Anti-Nirvana, the property of Satan, however you want to think of it. We doomed ourselves in eternity through our choices in life. Instead, Jesus took that doom, the consequences of our choices, the stains on our souls, onto Himself.

Fundamentalist Christian sects teach that when He died, he actually did go to Hell, just as we would absent the sacrifice to wipe away the marks on our souls. But because He was, in His spiritual essence, God and not a regular human, He was able to win Himself free and be resurrected and returned to Heaven. Go with it or don't, as you please. But then end result is that the consequences of our choices have now been paid forward for us.

Jesus is the only One who matters. It is through His sacrifice that we can have a right standing before God. Whenever God mentions our sins, Jesus says..."It's OK. I've got it covered."

I'm trying to explain this in a way that a non-believer can understand, without "insider" jargon and slogans, and without making jumps that assume understanding that probably isn't actually there.

A child can understand the Gospel of Christ. It's not that atheists don't believe. They don't WANT to believe. You can explain it 'til you're blue in the face. It won't do one bit of good.

 

[Marion Morrison]

Can you show me where it's in the Bible?

You have to study the bible to find out. It’s in the stories about Jesus.

Show me where, TN.

Go sin no more is the bottom line. Like these sins found at 1Corinthians 6:9-11, Galations 5:19-21--along with the false god worship on earth and pagan practices off the table of demons= 99% on earth do these things daily. Because 99% of all religion is false including 99% of all religion claiming to be Christian.
The blind guides tell those who do those sins--you are saved or born again in the false Christian religions. And they believe those teachers over Gods written word. Not a wise path to walk.

Salvation works from the inside out. Our Spirit is born again, not our flesh. We continue to sin, but if we are really saved and keep following Jesus, we will become more like him. It's a process.

So what happens to my soul if i don't follow jesus?

Were you made aware of him?

 

[Cecilie1200]

As far as I am aware, according to Christian beliefs after Adam's fall all humanity became sinful and doomed to perdition. Then Son of God was sent by Father to save mankind and give eternal live for those believing in Him.

‌Why was all this needed? Why didnt God simply send a prophet with instructions how people can save themselves? Why did God have a need to make sacrifice for himself?

First disclaimer: I hope you're not looking for this to be a quick, glib, bumper-sticker synopsis of theology, because it doesn't really work that way.

Second disclaimer: I suspect the complete answer to this question involves knowledge about the universe and the nature of God that we're not privy to at this time.

Now, having said that, I think there is a lot of nuance to Christianity, issues and questions that theologians have debated for centuries, that you're pretty much glossing over or missing entirely. Let me give you my take on it. As CS Lewis said about his explanations, if it helps you, run with it. If not, feel free to discard it entirely.

As I see it, what Adam's fall really did was awaken mankind to the sinful side of his own nature, and the down side to free will, ie. the ability and desire to choose to disobey God, and thus move ourselves farther away from Him spiritually. The problem, of course, is the eventual, ultimate end of that scenario. Now, before you jump to conclusions as to what the end is, let me explain my take on THAT.

In "The Screwtape Letters", CS Lewis said that in the end, everything in the universe will either be claimed by God or by Satan, God on the "pedantic" grounds that He created it, or Satan on the more "dynamic" grounds of conquest. Now, admittedly, Lewis was speaking from the perspective of a demon for the purposes of the book's premise, so the viewpoint is a bit skewed by that, but the way I see it, when we die, our souls go to and become part of one side or the other. Think of it, if you will, as Buddhism without reincarnation, sort of a Nirvana and Anti-Nirvana.

Okay, now the choices that you make in life with that free will are going to move you closer to one side or the other. But it's not as simple as just "I did something wrong, I'm sorry, forgive me", because those choices leave a mark on your soul, they change who you are. And they create a . . . oh, a sort of magnetism that draws you toward more of the same kind of choices. The more you make decisions to behave as a good person, the more you BECOME a good person, and the easier it is for you to choose that path the next time a decision has to be made; likewise, the more you allow yourself to behave badly, the easier it becomes to make the wrong choice the next time.

It takes something kinda big and metaphysical to wipe away the marks on your soul made by the bad decisions you've made. Sometimes I think of it in the same light as making a New Year's resolution: you announce your decision to make a change (even if you're announcing it just to yourself) because it makes it more real, more solid, more committed. I'm pretty sure there's more to it in this case, but it's that general idea. Prior to Jesus' birth as a human, the Israelites signified that commitment to abandoning disobedience and cleansing away the dark stains on their souls by sacrificing an animal, sort of a smaller death to symbolize the larger death that would be the ultimate end of continuing the path of dark and disobedient choices.

Ultimately, though, this isn't how God wanted it to be, the relationship between us and Him hemmed in by the constant need for ritual and strained by the constant pulling of our darker nature away from Him. So Jesus agreed to come to Earth, live as a human, die as a human, and be resurrected as the deity He truly was, a sort of "one time pays for all" sacrifice to take the place of all those smaller, stopgap sacrifices, one Ultimate death for Him to replace all the ultimate deaths for us. Basically, the cumulative bad choices we have all made, or all will make, would have made us part of the dark, the Anti-Nirvana, the property of Satan, however you want to think of it. We doomed ourselves in eternity through our choices in life. Instead, Jesus took that doom, the consequences of our choices, the stains on our souls, onto Himself.

Fundamentalist Christian sects teach that when He died, he actually did go to Hell, just as we would absent the sacrifice to wipe away the marks on our souls. But because He was, in His spiritual essence, God and not a regular human, He was able to win Himself free and be resurrected and returned to Heaven. Go with it or don't, as you please. But then end result is that the consequences of our choices have now been paid forward for us.

Jesus is the only One who matters. It is through His sacrifice that we can have a right standing before God. Whenever God mentions our sins, Jesus says..."It's OK. I've got it covered."

I'm trying to explain this in a way that a non-believer can understand, without "insider" jargon and slogans, and without making jumps that assume understanding that probably isn't actually there.

A child can understand the Gospel of Christ. It's not that atheists don't believe. They don't WANT to believe. You can explain it 'til you're blue in the face. It won't do one bit of good.

Well, yes, because a child has a more simplistic view of the world, and is more willing to take things on faith. At some point, though, one becomes an adult and starts questioning and trying to understand on a more complex level. CS Lewis was a non-believer before he finally came to an understanding of Christianity that rang true for him.

It is not for me to decide that a non-believer isn't going to believe and merely blow off his questions with a glib slogan. It is CERTAINLY not for me to obstruct his potential understanding by making it seem like some sort of "insiders' club". If the question is asked honestly, then it is my job to answer as best I can, and leave the rest in God's hands.

 

[Marion Morrison]

As far as I am aware, according to Christian beliefs after Adam's fall all humanity became sinful and doomed to perdition. Then Son of God was sent by Father to save mankind and give eternal live for those believing in Him.

‌Why was all this needed? Why didnt God simply send a prophet with instructions how people can save themselves? Why did God have a need to make sacrifice for himself?

First disclaimer: I hope you're not looking for this to be a quick, glib, bumper-sticker synopsis of theology, because it doesn't really work that way.

Second disclaimer: I suspect the complete answer to this question involves knowledge about the universe and the nature of God that we're not privy to at this time.

Now, having said that, I think there is a lot of nuance to Christianity, issues and questions that theologians have debated for centuries, that you're pretty much glossing over or missing entirely. Let me give you my take on it. As CS Lewis said about his explanations, if it helps you, run with it. If not, feel free to discard it entirely.

As I see it, what Adam's fall really did was awaken mankind to the sinful side of his own nature, and the down side to free will, ie. the ability and desire to choose to disobey God, and thus move ourselves farther away from Him spiritually. The problem, of course, is the eventual, ultimate end of that scenario. Now, before you jump to conclusions as to what the end is, let me explain my take on THAT.

In "The Screwtape Letters", CS Lewis said that in the end, everything in the universe will either be claimed by God or by Satan, God on the "pedantic" grounds that He created it, or Satan on the more "dynamic" grounds of conquest. Now, admittedly, Lewis was speaking from the perspective of a demon for the purposes of the book's premise, so the viewpoint is a bit skewed by that, but the way I see it, when we die, our souls go to and become part of one side or the other. Think of it, if you will, as Buddhism without reincarnation, sort of a Nirvana and Anti-Nirvana.

Okay, now the choices that you make in life with that free will are going to move you closer to one side or the other. But it's not as simple as just "I did something wrong, I'm sorry, forgive me", because those choices leave a mark on your soul, they change who you are. And they create a . . . oh, a sort of magnetism that draws you toward more of the same kind of choices. The more you make decisions to behave as a good person, the more you BECOME a good person, and the easier it is for you to choose that path the next time a decision has to be made; likewise, the more you allow yourself to behave badly, the easier it becomes to make the wrong choice the next time.

It takes something kinda big and metaphysical to wipe away the marks on your soul made by the bad decisions you've made. Sometimes I think of it in the same light as making a New Year's resolution: you announce your decision to make a change (even if you're announcing it just to yourself) because it makes it more real, more solid, more committed. I'm pretty sure there's more to it in this case, but it's that general idea. Prior to Jesus' birth as a human, the Israelites signified that commitment to abandoning disobedience and cleansing away the dark stains on their souls by sacrificing an animal, sort of a smaller death to symbolize the larger death that would be the ultimate end of continuing the path of dark and disobedient choices.

Ultimately, though, this isn't how God wanted it to be, the relationship between us and Him hemmed in by the constant need for ritual and strained by the constant pulling of our darker nature away from Him. So Jesus agreed to come to Earth, live as a human, die as a human, and be resurrected as the deity He truly was, a sort of "one time pays for all" sacrifice to take the place of all those smaller, stopgap sacrifices, one Ultimate death for Him to replace all the ultimate deaths for us. Basically, the cumulative bad choices we have all made, or all will make, would have made us part of the dark, the Anti-Nirvana, the property of Satan, however you want to think of it. We doomed ourselves in eternity through our choices in life. Instead, Jesus took that doom, the consequences of our choices, the stains on our souls, onto Himself.

Fundamentalist Christian sects teach that when He died, he actually did go to Hell, just as we would absent the sacrifice to wipe away the marks on our souls. But because He was, in His spiritual essence, God and not a regular human, He was able to win Himself free and be resurrected and returned to Heaven. Go with it or don't, as you please. But then end result is that the consequences of our choices have now been paid forward for us.

That's TL;DR

"1 John 3:16 King James Version (KJV)
16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren."

This is the whole deal in a nutshell. Sorry for being so simplistic.
Bible Gateway passage: 1 John 3:16 - King James Version

 

[Cecilie1200]

As far as I am aware, according to Christian beliefs after Adam's fall all humanity became sinful and doomed to perdition. Then Son of God was sent by Father to save mankind and give eternal live for those believing in Him.

‌Why was all this needed? Why didnt God simply send a prophet with instructions how people can save themselves? Why did God have a need to make sacrifice for himself?

First disclaimer: I hope you're not looking for this to be a quick, glib, bumper-sticker synopsis of theology, because it doesn't really work that way.

Second disclaimer: I suspect the complete answer to this question involves knowledge about the universe and the nature of God that we're not privy to at this time.

Now, having said that, I think there is a lot of nuance to Christianity, issues and questions that theologians have debated for centuries, that you're pretty much glossing over or missing entirely. Let me give you my take on it. As CS Lewis said about his explanations, if it helps you, run with it. If not, feel free to discard it entirely.

As I see it, what Adam's fall really did was awaken mankind to the sinful side of his own nature, and the down side to free will, ie. the ability and desire to choose to disobey God, and thus move ourselves farther away from Him spiritually. The problem, of course, is the eventual, ultimate end of that scenario. Now, before you jump to conclusions as to what the end is, let me explain my take on THAT.

In "The Screwtape Letters", CS Lewis said that in the end, everything in the universe will either be claimed by God or by Satan, God on the "pedantic" grounds that He created it, or Satan on the more "dynamic" grounds of conquest. Now, admittedly, Lewis was speaking from the perspective of a demon for the purposes of the book's premise, so the viewpoint is a bit skewed by that, but the way I see it, when we die, our souls go to and become part of one side or the other. Think of it, if you will, as Buddhism without reincarnation, sort of a Nirvana and Anti-Nirvana.

Okay, now the choices that you make in life with that free will are going to move you closer to one side or the other. But it's not as simple as just "I did something wrong, I'm sorry, forgive me", because those choices leave a mark on your soul, they change who you are. And they create a . . . oh, a sort of magnetism that draws you toward more of the same kind of choices. The more you make decisions to behave as a good person, the more you BECOME a good person, and the easier it is for you to choose that path the next time a decision has to be made; likewise, the more you allow yourself to behave badly, the easier it becomes to make the wrong choice the next time.

It takes something kinda big and metaphysical to wipe away the marks on your soul made by the bad decisions you've made. Sometimes I think of it in the same light as making a New Year's resolution: you announce your decision to make a change (even if you're announcing it just to yourself) because it makes it more real, more solid, more committed. I'm pretty sure there's more to it in this case, but it's that general idea. Prior to Jesus' birth as a human, the Israelites signified that commitment to abandoning disobedience and cleansing away the dark stains on their souls by sacrificing an animal, sort of a smaller death to symbolize the larger death that would be the ultimate end of continuing the path of dark and disobedient choices.

Ultimately, though, this isn't how God wanted it to be, the relationship between us and Him hemmed in by the constant need for ritual and strained by the constant pulling of our darker nature away from Him. So Jesus agreed to come to Earth, live as a human, die as a human, and be resurrected as the deity He truly was, a sort of "one time pays for all" sacrifice to take the place of all those smaller, stopgap sacrifices, one Ultimate death for Him to replace all the ultimate deaths for us. Basically, the cumulative bad choices we have all made, or all will make, would have made us part of the dark, the Anti-Nirvana, the property of Satan, however you want to think of it. We doomed ourselves in eternity through our choices in life. Instead, Jesus took that doom, the consequences of our choices, the stains on our souls, onto Himself.

Fundamentalist Christian sects teach that when He died, he actually did go to Hell, just as we would absent the sacrifice to wipe away the marks on our souls. But because He was, in His spiritual essence, God and not a regular human, He was able to win Himself free and be resurrected and returned to Heaven. Go with it or don't, as you please. But then end result is that the consequences of our choices have now been paid forward for us.

That's TL;DR

"1 John 3:16 King James Version (KJV)
16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren."

This is the whole deal in a nutshell. Sorry for being so simplistic.
Bible Gateway passage: 1 John 3:16 - King James Version

Sorry, didn't get "TL; DR".

 

[Marion Morrison]

As far as I am aware, according to Christian beliefs after Adam's fall all humanity became sinful and doomed to perdition. Then Son of God was sent by Father to save mankind and give eternal live for those believing in Him.

‌Why was all this needed? Why didnt God simply send a prophet with instructions how people can save themselves? Why did God have a need to make sacrifice for himself?

First disclaimer: I hope you're not looking for this to be a quick, glib, bumper-sticker synopsis of theology, because it doesn't really work that way.

Second disclaimer: I suspect the complete answer to this question involves knowledge about the universe and the nature of God that we're not privy to at this time.

Now, having said that, I think there is a lot of nuance to Christianity, issues and questions that theologians have debated for centuries, that you're pretty much glossing over or missing entirely. Let me give you my take on it. As CS Lewis said about his explanations, if it helps you, run with it. If not, feel free to discard it entirely.

As I see it, what Adam's fall really did was awaken mankind to the sinful side of his own nature, and the down side to free will, ie. the ability and desire to choose to disobey God, and thus move ourselves farther away from Him spiritually. The problem, of course, is the eventual, ultimate end of that scenario. Now, before you jump to conclusions as to what the end is, let me explain my take on THAT.

In "The Screwtape Letters", CS Lewis said that in the end, everything in the universe will either be claimed by God or by Satan, God on the "pedantic" grounds that He created it, or Satan on the more "dynamic" grounds of conquest. Now, admittedly, Lewis was speaking from the perspective of a demon for the purposes of the book's premise, so the viewpoint is a bit skewed by that, but the way I see it, when we die, our souls go to and become part of one side or the other. Think of it, if you will, as Buddhism without reincarnation, sort of a Nirvana and Anti-Nirvana.

Okay, now the choices that you make in life with that free will are going to move you closer to one side or the other. But it's not as simple as just "I did something wrong, I'm sorry, forgive me", because those choices leave a mark on your soul, they change who you are. And they create a . . . oh, a sort of magnetism that draws you toward more of the same kind of choices. The more you make decisions to behave as a good person, the more you BECOME a good person, and the easier it is for you to choose that path the next time a decision has to be made; likewise, the more you allow yourself to behave badly, the easier it becomes to make the wrong choice the next time.

It takes something kinda big and metaphysical to wipe away the marks on your soul made by the bad decisions you've made. Sometimes I think of it in the same light as making a New Year's resolution: you announce your decision to make a change (even if you're announcing it just to yourself) because it makes it more real, more solid, more committed. I'm pretty sure there's more to it in this case, but it's that general idea. Prior to Jesus' birth as a human, the Israelites signified that commitment to abandoning disobedience and cleansing away the dark stains on their souls by sacrificing an animal, sort of a smaller death to symbolize the larger death that would be the ultimate end of continuing the path of dark and disobedient choices.

Ultimately, though, this isn't how God wanted it to be, the relationship between us and Him hemmed in by the constant need for ritual and strained by the constant pulling of our darker nature away from Him. So Jesus agreed to come to Earth, live as a human, die as a human, and be resurrected as the deity He truly was, a sort of "one time pays for all" sacrifice to take the place of all those smaller, stopgap sacrifices, one Ultimate death for Him to replace all the ultimate deaths for us. Basically, the cumulative bad choices we have all made, or all will make, would have made us part of the dark, the Anti-Nirvana, the property of Satan, however you want to think of it. We doomed ourselves in eternity through our choices in life. Instead, Jesus took that doom, the consequences of our choices, the stains on our souls, onto Himself.

Fundamentalist Christian sects teach that when He died, he actually did go to Hell, just as we would absent the sacrifice to wipe away the marks on our souls. But because He was, in His spiritual essence, God and not a regular human, He was able to win Himself free and be resurrected and returned to Heaven. Go with it or don't, as you please. But then end result is that the consequences of our choices have now been paid forward for us.

That's TL;DR

"1 John 3:16 King James Version (KJV)
16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren."

This is the whole deal in a nutshell. Sorry for being so simplistic.
Bible Gateway passage: 1 John 3:16 - King James Version

Sorry, didn't get "TL; DR".

Do you "get" this?
Bible Gateway passage: 1 John 3:16 - King James Version

 

[RWNJ]

As far as I am aware, according to Christian beliefs after Adam's fall all humanity became sinful and doomed to perdition. Then Son of God was sent by Father to save mankind and give eternal live for those believing in Him.

‌Why was all this needed? Why didnt God simply send a prophet with instructions how people can save themselves? Why did God have a need to make sacrifice for himself?

First disclaimer: I hope you're not looking for this to be a quick, glib, bumper-sticker synopsis of theology, because it doesn't really work that way.

Second disclaimer: I suspect the complete answer to this question involves knowledge about the universe and the nature of God that we're not privy to at this time.

Now, having said that, I think there is a lot of nuance to Christianity, issues and questions that theologians have debated for centuries, that you're pretty much glossing over or missing entirely. Let me give you my take on it. As CS Lewis said about his explanations, if it helps you, run with it. If not, feel free to discard it entirely.

As I see it, what Adam's fall really did was awaken mankind to the sinful side of his own nature, and the down side to free will, ie. the ability and desire to choose to disobey God, and thus move ourselves farther away from Him spiritually. The problem, of course, is the eventual, ultimate end of that scenario. Now, before you jump to conclusions as to what the end is, let me explain my take on THAT.

In "The Screwtape Letters", CS Lewis said that in the end, everything in the universe will either be claimed by God or by Satan, God on the "pedantic" grounds that He created it, or Satan on the more "dynamic" grounds of conquest. Now, admittedly, Lewis was speaking from the perspective of a demon for the purposes of the book's premise, so the viewpoint is a bit skewed by that, but the way I see it, when we die, our souls go to and become part of one side or the other. Think of it, if you will, as Buddhism without reincarnation, sort of a Nirvana and Anti-Nirvana.

Okay, now the choices that you make in life with that free will are going to move you closer to one side or the other. But it's not as simple as just "I did something wrong, I'm sorry, forgive me", because those choices leave a mark on your soul, they change who you are. And they create a . . . oh, a sort of magnetism that draws you toward more of the same kind of choices. The more you make decisions to behave as a good person, the more you BECOME a good person, and the easier it is for you to choose that path the next time a decision has to be made; likewise, the more you allow yourself to behave badly, the easier it becomes to make the wrong choice the next time.

It takes something kinda big and metaphysical to wipe away the marks on your soul made by the bad decisions you've made. Sometimes I think of it in the same light as making a New Year's resolution: you announce your decision to make a change (even if you're announcing it just to yourself) because it makes it more real, more solid, more committed. I'm pretty sure there's more to it in this case, but it's that general idea. Prior to Jesus' birth as a human, the Israelites signified that commitment to abandoning disobedience and cleansing away the dark stains on their souls by sacrificing an animal, sort of a smaller death to symbolize the larger death that would be the ultimate end of continuing the path of dark and disobedient choices.

Ultimately, though, this isn't how God wanted it to be, the relationship between us and Him hemmed in by the constant need for ritual and strained by the constant pulling of our darker nature away from Him. So Jesus agreed to come to Earth, live as a human, die as a human, and be resurrected as the deity He truly was, a sort of "one time pays for all" sacrifice to take the place of all those smaller, stopgap sacrifices, one Ultimate death for Him to replace all the ultimate deaths for us. Basically, the cumulative bad choices we have all made, or all will make, would have made us part of the dark, the Anti-Nirvana, the property of Satan, however you want to think of it. We doomed ourselves in eternity through our choices in life. Instead, Jesus took that doom, the consequences of our choices, the stains on our souls, onto Himself.

Fundamentalist Christian sects teach that when He died, he actually did go to Hell, just as we would absent the sacrifice to wipe away the marks on our souls. But because He was, in His spiritual essence, God and not a regular human, He was able to win Himself free and be resurrected and returned to Heaven. Go with it or don't, as you please. But then end result is that the consequences of our choices have now been paid forward for us.

Jesus is the only One who matters. It is through His sacrifice that we can have a right standing before God. Whenever God mentions our sins, Jesus says..."It's OK. I've got it covered."

I'm trying to explain this in a way that a non-believer can understand, without "insider" jargon and slogans, and without making jumps that assume understanding that probably isn't actually there.

A child can understand the Gospel of Christ. It's not that atheists don't believe. They don't WANT to believe. You can explain it 'til you're blue in the face. It won't do one bit of good.

Well, yes, because a child has a more simplistic view of the world, and is more willing to take things on faith. At some point, though, one becomes an adult and starts questioning and trying to understand on a more complex level. CS Lewis was a non-believer before he finally came to an understanding of Christianity that rang true for him.

It is not for me to decide that a non-believer isn't going to believe and merely blow off his questions with a glib slogan. It is CERTAINLY not for me to obstruct his potential understanding by making it seem like some sort of "insiders' club". If the question is asked honestly, then it is my job to answer as best I can, and leave the rest in God's hands.

I wasn't referring to your average unbeliever. I had those on the forum who constantly attack Christianity, while defending Islam, in mind. They have been told the truth, over and over again. Reprobate minds. All of them.

 

[BS Filter]

First disclaimer: I hope you're not looking for this to be a quick, glib, bumper-sticker synopsis of theology, because it doesn't really work that way.

Second disclaimer: I suspect the complete answer to this question involves knowledge about the universe and the nature of God that we're not privy to at this time.

Now, having said that, I think there is a lot of nuance to Christianity, issues and questions that theologians have debated for centuries, that you're pretty much glossing over or missing entirely. Let me give you my take on it. As CS Lewis said about his explanations, if it helps you, run with it. If not, feel free to discard it entirely.

As I see it, what Adam's fall really did was awaken mankind to the sinful side of his own nature, and the down side to free will, ie. the ability and desire to choose to disobey God, and thus move ourselves farther away from Him spiritually. The problem, of course, is the eventual, ultimate end of that scenario. Now, before you jump to conclusions as to what the end is, let me explain my take on THAT.

In "The Screwtape Letters", CS Lewis said that in the end, everything in the universe will either be claimed by God or by Satan, God on the "pedantic" grounds that He created it, or Satan on the more "dynamic" grounds of conquest. Now, admittedly, Lewis was speaking from the perspective of a demon for the purposes of the book's premise, so the viewpoint is a bit skewed by that, but the way I see it, when we die, our souls go to and become part of one side or the other. Think of it, if you will, as Buddhism without reincarnation, sort of a Nirvana and Anti-Nirvana.

Okay, now the choices that you make in life with that free will are going to move you closer to one side or the other. But it's not as simple as just "I did something wrong, I'm sorry, forgive me", because those choices leave a mark on your soul, they change who you are. And they create a . . . oh, a sort of magnetism that draws you toward more of the same kind of choices. The more you make decisions to behave as a good person, the more you BECOME a good person, and the easier it is for you to choose that path the next time a decision has to be made; likewise, the more you allow yourself to behave badly, the easier it becomes to make the wrong choice the next time.

It takes something kinda big and metaphysical to wipe away the marks on your soul made by the bad decisions you've made. Sometimes I think of it in the same light as making a New Year's resolution: you announce your decision to make a change (even if you're announcing it just to yourself) because it makes it more real, more solid, more committed. I'm pretty sure there's more to it in this case, but it's that general idea. Prior to Jesus' birth as a human, the Israelites signified that commitment to abandoning disobedience and cleansing away the dark stains on their souls by sacrificing an animal, sort of a smaller death to symbolize the larger death that would be the ultimate end of continuing the path of dark and disobedient choices.

Ultimately, though, this isn't how God wanted it to be, the relationship between us and Him hemmed in by the constant need for ritual and strained by the constant pulling of our darker nature away from Him. So Jesus agreed to come to Earth, live as a human, die as a human, and be resurrected as the deity He truly was, a sort of "one time pays for all" sacrifice to take the place of all those smaller, stopgap sacrifices, one Ultimate death for Him to replace all the ultimate deaths for us. Basically, the cumulative bad choices we have all made, or all will make, would have made us part of the dark, the Anti-Nirvana, the property of Satan, however you want to think of it. We doomed ourselves in eternity through our choices in life. Instead, Jesus took that doom, the consequences of our choices, the stains on our souls, onto Himself.

Fundamentalist Christian sects teach that when He died, he actually did go to Hell, just as we would absent the sacrifice to wipe away the marks on our souls. But because He was, in His spiritual essence, God and not a regular human, He was able to win Himself free and be resurrected and returned to Heaven. Go with it or don't, as you please. But then end result is that the consequences of our choices have now been paid forward for us.

Jesus is the only One who matters. It is through His sacrifice that we can have a right standing before God. Whenever God mentions our sins, Jesus says..."It's OK. I've got it covered."

I'm trying to explain this in a way that a non-believer can understand, without "insider" jargon and slogans, and without making jumps that assume understanding that probably isn't actually there.

A child can understand the Gospel of Christ. It's not that atheists don't believe. They don't WANT to believe. You can explain it 'til you're blue in the face. It won't do one bit of good.

Well, yes, because a child has a more simplistic view of the world, and is more willing to take things on faith. At some point, though, one becomes an adult and starts questioning and trying to understand on a more complex level. CS Lewis was a non-believer before he finally came to an understanding of Christianity that rang true for him.

It is not for me to decide that a non-believer isn't going to believe and merely blow off his questions with a glib slogan. It is CERTAINLY not for me to obstruct his potential understanding by making it seem like some sort of "insiders' club". If the question is asked honestly, then it is my job to answer as best I can, and leave the rest in God's hands.

I wasn't referring to your average unbeliever. I had those on the forum who constantly attack Christianity, while defending Islam, in mind. They have been told the truth, over and over again. Reprobate minds. All of them.

Exactly. Many leftists will defend Islam while exhortating Christianity. The democrats have chosen to make muslims a protected class for their vote. It's totally political.

 

[Taz]

You have to study the bible to find out. It’s in the stories about Jesus.

Show me where, TN.

Go sin no more is the bottom line. Like these sins found at 1Corinthians 6:9-11, Galations 5:19-21--along with the false god worship on earth and pagan practices off the table of demons= 99% on earth do these things daily. Because 99% of all religion is false including 99% of all religion claiming to be Christian.
The blind guides tell those who do those sins--you are saved or born again in the false Christian religions. And they believe those teachers over Gods written word. Not a wise path to walk.

Salvation works from the inside out. Our Spirit is born again, not our flesh. We continue to sin, but if we are really saved and keep following Jesus, we will become more like him. It's a process.

So what happens to my soul if i don't follow jesus?

Were you made aware of him?

I’ve heard the bible stories, so what? What will happen to my soul?

 

[kjw47]

It’s in the bible.

Can you show me where it's in the Bible?

You have to study the bible to find out. It’s in the stories about Jesus.

Show me where, TN.

Go sin no more is the bottom line. Like these sins found at 1Corinthians 6:9-11, Galations 5:19-21--along with the false god worship on earth and pagan practices off the table of demons= 99% on earth do these things daily. Because 99% of all religion is false including 99% of all religion claiming to be Christian.
The blind guides tell those who do those sins--you are saved or born again in the false Christian religions. And they believe those teachers over Gods written word. Not a wise path to walk.

Salvation works from the inside out. Our Spirit is born again, not our flesh. We continue to sin, but if we are really saved and keep following Jesus, we will become more like him. It's a process.

Here is what Jesus will tell those who continue in sin at judgement--Matt 7:22-23)-- between 1Cor 6:9-11, Galations 5:19-21 and all the false god worship on earth and partaking off the table of demons = 99%-- this world is in trouble.