What to do if you are involved in a Self Defense Shooting.

[BULLDOG]

The only reason to fire is I was afeared for my life, or the lives of other innocents.

Afraid = paranoid, mentally ill. Guns are banned.
"My life," lives of others? Oh, you're a danger to your self or others due to your grave mental disability, and you'll have to be committed to a mental institution for your own safety and the safety of others who might be harmed as a result of your delusional thinking disorder.

A lawyer would help you with that.

Sure. A good lawyer always asks for a mental health evaluation by order of the court before representing a client in a gun case.

The Police are not your friend.

No, they're not. Got fingerprints? DNA?Concealed carry permit? They're already working up a cold-case frame-up job and getting a jury picked out to lynch you on a cocked-up murder charge in a capital punishment state. You may not have ever even been in that state in your life, let alone at the time of the alleged murder, but they have a cloud of witnesses who "come forward" on cue.

It just happens to be a little bit more work to frame you on a murder charge than it it is to have you committed to a mental institution for life and revoke your gun rights.

Remember, there is no possible defense in court against a mental health civil commitment as there is for a criminal accusation, even though the consequences are the same: you serve hard time and lose gun rights for life.

Odd. Reasonable fear is something that anyone would feel. If someone admits to a fear of falling from the top of a skyscraper are they mentally ill? Or is it only gun owners?

Paranoid gun owners fear is more akin to fear that someone is going to push them off of a sky scraper. One might be reasonable. The other is usually nuts.

 

[Missourian]

The Police are not your friend.

Qft.

 

[Missourian]

Best legal advice: STFU and lawyer up.

I was just about to tho find this video.

 

[anynameyouwish]

This thread is tangentially associated with the now famous McMichaels shooting in Georgia. One of the things they did that was stupid was talk to the Police afterwards. I went to a local shop I visit about once a week or so. Inside, I talked to one of the clerks about this situation, and the major mistake made after the shooting. I told him that I belonged to a group that is sort of like an insurance policy for gun owners. It is called USCCA and what they say to do, is say as little as you can get away with legally to the Police after a shooting.

I gave the scenario that he was armed, and someone robs the joint. The baddie turns to go and then the clerk pulls the weapon and fires. Ok, now why did he fire would be important. What he tells the cops he was thinking/feeling is liable to make the difference on if he is charged, or not. A simple misstatement might see you charged as well. If he says he didn’t want the baddie to leave, that changes the flavor of the shooting from defensive, to aggressive, and that would be bad. The only reason to fire is I was afeared for my life, or the lives of other innocents. A lawyer would help you with that.

So what should you do? Burying the body in the backyard is not a good choice. So let’s get realistic. What you should do is exactly the same thing the Cops do. Say nothing at the scene. Make sure the cops see the scene undisturbed, and then ask for a lawyer. Because if a cop is involved in a shooting, before he gives a statement he talks to a lawyer. And that is a cop with far greater authority than you have as a normal civilian.

USCCA does provide the most important thing during that period. They provide money for a lawyer. The lawyer makes sure the story you tell the police, the truth, is phrased exactly right to insure you don’t spend years in prison for your actions. A misstatement, or a statement twisted by the police or the Prosecutor to confuse you could see you charged with a crime.

The Police are not your friend. Remember they don’t talk to each other after a shooting, so why should you talk to them?

If you are curious, check out the United States Concealed Carry Association. USCCA: Self-Defense Knowledge, Training, & Legal Protection

If you don‘t want to join, than read the blog and get some idea of what you might be facing if you use a firearm in self defense.

Final note. I am not debating the shooting in Georgia. The entire point of this is what you should do in a self defense shooting. If you talk to the police, chances are you will talk your way right into prison.

What should a black jogger do when 2 murderous conservatives approach him with shot guns?

 

[Polishprince]

This thread is tangentially associated with the now famous McMichaels shooting in Georgia. One of the things they did that was stupid was talk to the Police afterwards. I went to a local shop I visit about once a week or so. Inside, I talked to one of the clerks about this situation, and the major mistake made after the shooting. I told him that I belonged to a group that is sort of like an insurance policy for gun owners. It is called USCCA and what they say to do, is say as little as you can get away with legally to the Police after a shooting.

I gave the scenario that he was armed, and someone robs the joint. The baddie turns to go and then the clerk pulls the weapon and fires. Ok, now why did he fire would be important. What he tells the cops he was thinking/feeling is liable to make the difference on if he is charged, or not. A simple misstatement might see you charged as well. If he says he didn’t want the baddie to leave, that changes the flavor of the shooting from defensive, to aggressive, and that would be bad. The only reason to fire is I was afeared for my life, or the lives of other innocents. A lawyer would help you with that.

So what should you do? Burying the body in the backyard is not a good choice. So let’s get realistic. What you should do is exactly the same thing the Cops do. Say nothing at the scene. Make sure the cops see the scene undisturbed, and then ask for a lawyer. Because if a cop is involved in a shooting, before he gives a statement he talks to a lawyer. And that is a cop with far greater authority than you have as a normal civilian.

USCCA does provide the most important thing during that period. They provide money for a lawyer. The lawyer makes sure the story you tell the police, the truth, is phrased exactly right to insure you don’t spend years in prison for your actions. A misstatement, or a statement twisted by the police or the Prosecutor to confuse you could see you charged with a crime.

The Police are not your friend. Remember they don’t talk to each other after a shooting, so why should you talk to them?

If you are curious, check out the United States Concealed Carry Association. USCCA: Self-Defense Knowledge, Training, & Legal Protection

If you don‘t want to join, than read the blog and get some idea of what you might be facing if you use a firearm in self defense.

Final note. I am not debating the shooting in Georgia. The entire point of this is what you should do in a self defense shooting. If you talk to the police, chances are you will talk your way right into prison.

What should a black jogger do when 2 murderous conservatives approach him with shot guns?

How would this "black jogger" know what the political viewpoints of these fellows was? If someone approached me on the street brandishing firearms, the last thing I would be thinking is "who do these fellows support in the upcoming election"

 

[Missourian]

Here's another great one...

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

This thread is tangentially associated with the now famous McMichaels shooting in Georgia. One of the things they did that was stupid was talk to the Police afterwards. I went to a local shop I visit about once a week or so. Inside, I talked to one of the clerks about this situation, and the major mistake made after the shooting. I told him that I belonged to a group that is sort of like an insurance policy for gun owners. It is called USCCA and what they say to do, is say as little as you can get away with legally to the Police after a shooting.

I gave the scenario that he was armed, and someone robs the joint. The baddie turns to go and then the clerk pulls the weapon and fires. Ok, now why did he fire would be important. What he tells the cops he was thinking/feeling is liable to make the difference on if he is charged, or not. A simple misstatement might see you charged as well. If he says he didn’t want the baddie to leave, that changes the flavor of the shooting from defensive, to aggressive, and that would be bad. The only reason to fire is I was afeared for my life, or the lives of other innocents. A lawyer would help you with that.

So what should you do? Burying the body in the backyard is not a good choice. So let’s get realistic. What you should do is exactly the same thing the Cops do. Say nothing at the scene. Make sure the cops see the scene undisturbed, and then ask for a lawyer. Because if a cop is involved in a shooting, before he gives a statement he talks to a lawyer. And that is a cop with far greater authority than you have as a normal civilian.

USCCA does provide the most important thing during that period. They provide money for a lawyer. The lawyer makes sure the story you tell the police, the truth, is phrased exactly right to insure you don’t spend years in prison for your actions. A misstatement, or a statement twisted by the police or the Prosecutor to confuse you could see you charged with a crime.

The Police are not your friend. Remember they don’t talk to each other after a shooting, so why should you talk to them?

If you are curious, check out the United States Concealed Carry Association. USCCA: Self-Defense Knowledge, Training, & Legal Protection

If you don‘t want to join, than read the blog and get some idea of what you might be facing if you use a firearm in self defense.

Final note. I am not debating the shooting in Georgia. The entire point of this is what you should do in a self defense shooting. If you talk to the police, chances are you will talk your way right into prison.

The first and most important thing to do is know your state’s laws concerning lethal self-defense.

Know also how your state’s courts have ruled with regard to criminal cases concerning lethal self-defense, where someone who defended himself with a firearm was subject to criminal prosecution.

In my state, for example, pursuant to recent court cases, I may use lethal self-defense with a firearm only if my attacker has made physical contact with me.

“…now why did he fire would be important. What he tells the cops he was thinking/feeling is liable to make the difference on if he is charged, or not.”

Not necessarily.

Again, in some jurisdictions, the result of recent court cases, what the person defending himself ‘thought’ or ‘felt’ is irrelevant – all that’s relevant is what the security camera video shows along with subjective public opinion.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

This thread is tangentially associated with the now famous McMichaels shooting in Georgia. One of the things they did that was stupid was talk to the Police afterwards. I went to a local shop I visit about once a week or so. Inside, I talked to one of the clerks about this situation, and the major mistake made after the shooting. I told him that I belonged to a group that is sort of like an insurance policy for gun owners. It is called USCCA and what they say to do, is say as little as you can get away with legally to the Police after a shooting.

I gave the scenario that he was armed, and someone robs the joint. The baddie turns to go and then the clerk pulls the weapon and fires. Ok, now why did he fire would be important. What he tells the cops he was thinking/feeling is liable to make the difference on if he is charged, or not. A simple misstatement might see you charged as well. If he says he didn’t want the baddie to leave, that changes the flavor of the shooting from defensive, to aggressive, and that would be bad. The only reason to fire is I was afeared for my life, or the lives of other innocents. A lawyer would help you with that.

So what should you do? Burying the body in the backyard is not a good choice. So let’s get realistic. What you should do is exactly the same thing the Cops do. Say nothing at the scene. Make sure the cops see the scene undisturbed, and then ask for a lawyer. Because if a cop is involved in a shooting, before he gives a statement he talks to a lawyer. And that is a cop with far greater authority than you have as a normal civilian.

USCCA does provide the most important thing during that period. They provide money for a lawyer. The lawyer makes sure the story you tell the police, the truth, is phrased exactly right to insure you don’t spend years in prison for your actions. A misstatement, or a statement twisted by the police or the Prosecutor to confuse you could see you charged with a crime.

The Police are not your friend. Remember they don’t talk to each other after a shooting, so why should you talk to them?

If you are curious, check out the United States Concealed Carry Association. USCCA: Self-Defense Knowledge, Training, & Legal Protection

If you don‘t want to join, than read the blog and get some idea of what you might be facing if you use a firearm in self defense.

Final note. I am not debating the shooting in Georgia. The entire point of this is what you should do in a self defense shooting. If you talk to the police, chances are you will talk your way right into prison.

What should a black jogger do when 2 murderous conservatives approach him with shot guns?

This is why African Americans in particular should carry concealed firearms – affording an African American some opportunity to defend himself from rightwing racists seeking to do him harm.

 

[eagle1462010]

I was in fear for my life.

I was in fear for may life.

He had a gun.......then nothing more.

 

[Likkmee]

Self defense ? Go home and wash my car......play with the dog. Then, while I reviewed the "alleged" dead mans drivers license, or food stamp card, I'd reload and go finish cleaning the gene pool

 

[SavannahMann]

The only reason to fire is I was afeared for my life, or the lives of other innocents.

Afraid = paranoid, mentally ill. Guns are banned.
"My life," lives of others? Oh, you're a danger to your self or others due to your grave mental disability, and you'll have to be committed to a mental institution for your own safety and the safety of others who might be harmed as a result of your delusional thinking disorder.

A lawyer would help you with that.

Sure. A good lawyer always asks for a mental health evaluation by order of the court before representing a client in a gun case.

The Police are not your friend.

No, they're not. Got fingerprints? DNA?Concealed carry permit? They're already working up a cold-case frame-up job and getting a jury picked out to lynch you on a cocked-up murder charge in a capital punishment state. You may not have ever even been in that state in your life, let alone at the time of the alleged murder, but they have a cloud of witnesses who "come forward" on cue.

It just happens to be a little bit more work to frame you on a murder charge than it it is to have you committed to a mental institution for life and revoke your gun rights.

Remember, there is no possible defense in court against a mental health civil commitment as there is for a criminal accusation, even though the consequences are the same: you serve hard time and lose gun rights for life.

Odd. Reasonable fear is something that anyone would feel. If someone admits to a fear of falling from the top of a skyscraper are they mentally ill? Or is it only gun owners?

Paranoid gun owners fear is more akin to fear that someone is going to push them off of a sky scraper. One might be reasonable. The other is usually nuts.

I have a Fire Extinguisher sitting next to my stove. I also have one next to my outdoor grill. Both of course, are the right ones for the types of fires likely to happen in a Kitchen. Is it a Reasonable Fear of fire or an unreasonable fear of fire that I have succumbed to?

I live in an area with likely hurricane activity. Every year I have my Generator serviced, and I check my food supplies to insure the dehydrated food is ready and still good for the upcoming year. I inspect the jugs I intend to store water in, and my solar power system that is designed to power a thermoelectric cooler in case the Generator fails. Is that a reasonable precaution against a likely event, a Hurricane, or a paranoid response?

In my car I have jumper cables, a battery jump starter, first aide kit, and flashlight. Are those reasonable precautions as recommended by the Automobile Association of America? Or a paranoid reaction to an unlikely event.

I am allergic to Wasp Stings. Next to my home First Aide Kit I keep a set of Epipens. Proscribed by my Doctor, and advised to keep them handy. I have not been stung in many years. And the last time I was able to manage the event with Benadryl without resorting to the EpiPen. I did not have difficulty breathing that time. Is it Paranoid to keep the Epipens? Or a wise precaution that might save my life?

Rural Georgia is a lot of wetlands, with associated wildlife. In the area around me I have seen sign of Wild Boar, heard Coyote’s, had reports of foxes, and of course seen snakes and other things. Snakes including Copperheads which are very dangerous to me, and my pets. When I go out into the woods on and adjacent to my property, I carry a revolver loaded with Snakeshot. I do not kill any snakes that are harmless to people and pets. I do not go looking for snakes, but if I come across a copperhead and feel it is a danger to myself or our animals I will shoot it. If it is more than a hundred feet away from the “developed” land, I leave it alone. Is that paranoid, or a reasonable precaution to save the lives of my Cats and Dog?

The line between paranoid and reasonable is not set in stone. The difference is the result if God Forbid the event happens. A couple killed in their home by an invader seems like a good proof of the need for protection. If no one attacks the home, it seems like the precaution is ridiculous.

We require people to wear seatbelts. We require new manufacture cars to have Airbags, and many other safety systems. Despite the fact that most of those cars will never be in a severe accident. An ounce of prevention, is worth a pound of Gold.

Women carry various hygiene products in their purses, or keep them in desks at work. Why? They have a good idea when the event they are preparing for will happen. Why keep things like Tampons and Pads if you know you have at least two weeks before the next event? Yet women still keep things handy despite the fact that the event is reasonably regular, and predictable. I have heard women speak badly of another who had to borrow something like that, because they were not prepared.

I have always believed that one line from the Wiccan Rede was brilliant. Ever since I first read it. As long as you harm none, do what you will. You can buy hundreds of guns and I wouldn’t care. If you use that to harm another, you need a really good reason. A reason that others, not just me, would consider to be reasonable. An intruder coming into your home to threaten you and your family is a pretty good reason in my book.

I hope I do not need the Generator this year. I hope that the Dehydrated food will stay in the bin for another year unused. I hope that I never find myself needing to jump off a car of a stranded soul, or jumping my car off to run it home. I hope I never find myself in a situation where I have to fight for my life, or the lives of my family. But wishes are not fishes. And hope does not prevent accidents, or events that are undesired. I hope never to be afflicted by a stomach virus which causes severe distress. But we all know most of those things will happen, and it is possible, that the defense situation will happen. Possible but not probable.

When the Apollo 11 and 12 crews returned to earth, they were put in biohazard suits designed to keep any space borne organisms from escaping. The experts and the astronauts knew that the odds were one in a billion that something might exist like that, and even if it did there was little chance it would affect life on Earth. However, the dangers of that one in a billion chance were catastrophic. That organism could literally wipe out all life on the planet. Granted, it was so unlikely that the odds of winning the Lottery seem good in comparison. But they took the precautions anyway. Was that paranoia, or reasonable precautions?

 

[BULLDOG]

The only reason to fire is I was afeared for my life, or the lives of other innocents.

Afraid = paranoid, mentally ill. Guns are banned.
"My life," lives of others? Oh, you're a danger to your self or others due to your grave mental disability, and you'll have to be committed to a mental institution for your own safety and the safety of others who might be harmed as a result of your delusional thinking disorder.

A lawyer would help you with that.

Sure. A good lawyer always asks for a mental health evaluation by order of the court before representing a client in a gun case.

The Police are not your friend.

No, they're not. Got fingerprints? DNA?Concealed carry permit? They're already working up a cold-case frame-up job and getting a jury picked out to lynch you on a cocked-up murder charge in a capital punishment state. You may not have ever even been in that state in your life, let alone at the time of the alleged murder, but they have a cloud of witnesses who "come forward" on cue.

It just happens to be a little bit more work to frame you on a murder charge than it it is to have you committed to a mental institution for life and revoke your gun rights.

Remember, there is no possible defense in court against a mental health civil commitment as there is for a criminal accusation, even though the consequences are the same: you serve hard time and lose gun rights for life.

Odd. Reasonable fear is something that anyone would feel. If someone admits to a fear of falling from the top of a skyscraper are they mentally ill? Or is it only gun owners?

Paranoid gun owners fear is more akin to fear that someone is going to push them off of a sky scraper. One might be reasonable. The other is usually nuts.

I have a Fire Extinguisher sitting next to my stove. I also have one next to my outdoor grill. Both of course, are the right ones for the types of fires likely to happen in a Kitchen. Is it a Reasonable Fear of fire or an unreasonable fear of fire that I have succumbed to?

I live in an area with likely hurricane activity. Every year I have my Generator serviced, and I check my food supplies to insure the dehydrated food is ready and still good for the upcoming year. I inspect the jugs I intend to store water in, and my solar power system that is designed to power a thermoelectric cooler in case the Generator fails. Is that a reasonable precaution against a likely event, a Hurricane, or a paranoid response?

In my car I have jumper cables, a battery jump starter, first aide kit, and flashlight. Are those reasonable precautions as recommended by the Automobile Association of America? Or a paranoid reaction to an unlikely event.

I am allergic to Wasp Stings. Next to my home First Aide Kit I keep a set of Epipens. Proscribed by my Doctor, and advised to keep them handy. I have not been stung in many years. And the last time I was able to manage the event with Benadryl without resorting to the EpiPen. I did not have difficulty breathing that time. Is it Paranoid to keep the Epipens? Or a wise precaution that might save my life?

Rural Georgia is a lot of wetlands, with associated wildlife. In the area around me I have seen sign of Wild Boar, heard Coyote’s, had reports of foxes, and of course seen snakes and other things. Snakes including Copperheads which are very dangerous to me, and my pets. When I go out into the woods on and adjacent to my property, I carry a revolver loaded with Snakeshot. I do not kill any snakes that are harmless to people and pets. I do not go looking for snakes, but if I come across a copperhead and feel it is a danger to myself or our animals I will shoot it. If it is more than a hundred feet away from the “developed” land, I leave it alone. Is that paranoid, or a reasonable precaution to save the lives of my Cats and Dog?

The line between paranoid and reasonable is not set in stone. The difference is the result if God Forbid the event happens. A couple killed in their home by an invader seems like a good proof of the need for protection. If no one attacks the home, it seems like the precaution is ridiculous.

We require people to wear seatbelts. We require new manufacture cars to have Airbags, and many other safety systems. Despite the fact that most of those cars will never be in a severe accident. An ounce of prevention, is worth a pound of Gold.

Women carry various hygiene products in their purses, or keep them in desks at work. Why? They have a good idea when the event they are preparing for will happen. Why keep things like Tampons and Pads if you know you have at least two weeks before the next event? Yet women still keep things handy despite the fact that the event is reasonably regular, and predictable. I have heard women speak badly of another who had to borrow something like that, because they were not prepared.

I have always believed that one line from the Wiccan Rede was brilliant. Ever since I first read it. As long as you harm none, do what you will. You can buy hundreds of guns and I wouldn’t care. If you use that to harm another, you need a really good reason. A reason that others, not just me, would consider to be reasonable. An intruder coming into your home to threaten you and your family is a pretty good reason in my book.

I hope I do not need the Generator this year. I hope that the Dehydrated food will stay in the bin for another year unused. I hope that I never find myself needing to jump off a car of a stranded soul, or jumping my car off to run it home. I hope I never find myself in a situation where I have to fight for my life, or the lives of my family. But wishes are not fishes. And hope does not prevent accidents, or events that are undesired. I hope never to be afflicted by a stomach virus which causes severe distress. But we all know most of those things will happen, and it is possible, that the defense situation will happen. Possible but not probable.

When the Apollo 11 and 12 crews returned to earth, they were put in biohazard suits designed to keep any space borne organisms from escaping. The experts and the astronauts knew that the odds were one in a billion that something might exist like that, and even if it did there was little chance it would affect life on Earth. However, the dangers of that one in a billion chance were catastrophic. That organism could literally wipe out all life on the planet. Granted, it was so unlikely that the odds of winning the Lottery seem good in comparison. But they took the precautions anyway. Was that paranoia, or reasonable precautions?

I don't have a problem with guns or reasonable gun owners. I have guns myself. I have a problem with gun nuts who feel the need to prance around with a gun in public 24/7. The type person who uses a gun for a political statement, or a fashion statement, and thinks that any attempt to keep guns away from those that shouldn't have them is out of the question. There is a big difference between a responsible gun owner and paranoid gun nuts.

 

[SavannahMann]

The only reason to fire is I was afeared for my life, or the lives of other innocents.

Afraid = paranoid, mentally ill. Guns are banned.
"My life," lives of others? Oh, you're a danger to your self or others due to your grave mental disability, and you'll have to be committed to a mental institution for your own safety and the safety of others who might be harmed as a result of your delusional thinking disorder.

A lawyer would help you with that.

Sure. A good lawyer always asks for a mental health evaluation by order of the court before representing a client in a gun case.

The Police are not your friend.

No, they're not. Got fingerprints? DNA?Concealed carry permit? They're already working up a cold-case frame-up job and getting a jury picked out to lynch you on a cocked-up murder charge in a capital punishment state. You may not have ever even been in that state in your life, let alone at the time of the alleged murder, but they have a cloud of witnesses who "come forward" on cue.

It just happens to be a little bit more work to frame you on a murder charge than it it is to have you committed to a mental institution for life and revoke your gun rights.

Remember, there is no possible defense in court against a mental health civil commitment as there is for a criminal accusation, even though the consequences are the same: you serve hard time and lose gun rights for life.

Odd. Reasonable fear is something that anyone would feel. If someone admits to a fear of falling from the top of a skyscraper are they mentally ill? Or is it only gun owners?

Paranoid gun owners fear is more akin to fear that someone is going to push them off of a sky scraper. One might be reasonable. The other is usually nuts.

I have a Fire Extinguisher sitting next to my stove. I also have one next to my outdoor grill. Both of course, are the right ones for the types of fires likely to happen in a Kitchen. Is it a Reasonable Fear of fire or an unreasonable fear of fire that I have succumbed to?

I live in an area with likely hurricane activity. Every year I have my Generator serviced, and I check my food supplies to insure the dehydrated food is ready and still good for the upcoming year. I inspect the jugs I intend to store water in, and my solar power system that is designed to power a thermoelectric cooler in case the Generator fails. Is that a reasonable precaution against a likely event, a Hurricane, or a paranoid response?

In my car I have jumper cables, a battery jump starter, first aide kit, and flashlight. Are those reasonable precautions as recommended by the Automobile Association of America? Or a paranoid reaction to an unlikely event.

I am allergic to Wasp Stings. Next to my home First Aide Kit I keep a set of Epipens. Proscribed by my Doctor, and advised to keep them handy. I have not been stung in many years. And the last time I was able to manage the event with Benadryl without resorting to the EpiPen. I did not have difficulty breathing that time. Is it Paranoid to keep the Epipens? Or a wise precaution that might save my life?

Rural Georgia is a lot of wetlands, with associated wildlife. In the area around me I have seen sign of Wild Boar, heard Coyote’s, had reports of foxes, and of course seen snakes and other things. Snakes including Copperheads which are very dangerous to me, and my pets. When I go out into the woods on and adjacent to my property, I carry a revolver loaded with Snakeshot. I do not kill any snakes that are harmless to people and pets. I do not go looking for snakes, but if I come across a copperhead and feel it is a danger to myself or our animals I will shoot it. If it is more than a hundred feet away from the “developed” land, I leave it alone. Is that paranoid, or a reasonable precaution to save the lives of my Cats and Dog?

The line between paranoid and reasonable is not set in stone. The difference is the result if God Forbid the event happens. A couple killed in their home by an invader seems like a good proof of the need for protection. If no one attacks the home, it seems like the precaution is ridiculous.

We require people to wear seatbelts. We require new manufacture cars to have Airbags, and many other safety systems. Despite the fact that most of those cars will never be in a severe accident. An ounce of prevention, is worth a pound of Gold.

Women carry various hygiene products in their purses, or keep them in desks at work. Why? They have a good idea when the event they are preparing for will happen. Why keep things like Tampons and Pads if you know you have at least two weeks before the next event? Yet women still keep things handy despite the fact that the event is reasonably regular, and predictable. I have heard women speak badly of another who had to borrow something like that, because they were not prepared.

I have always believed that one line from the Wiccan Rede was brilliant. Ever since I first read it. As long as you harm none, do what you will. You can buy hundreds of guns and I wouldn’t care. If you use that to harm another, you need a really good reason. A reason that others, not just me, would consider to be reasonable. An intruder coming into your home to threaten you and your family is a pretty good reason in my book.

I hope I do not need the Generator this year. I hope that the Dehydrated food will stay in the bin for another year unused. I hope that I never find myself needing to jump off a car of a stranded soul, or jumping my car off to run it home. I hope I never find myself in a situation where I have to fight for my life, or the lives of my family. But wishes are not fishes. And hope does not prevent accidents, or events that are undesired. I hope never to be afflicted by a stomach virus which causes severe distress. But we all know most of those things will happen, and it is possible, that the defense situation will happen. Possible but not probable.

When the Apollo 11 and 12 crews returned to earth, they were put in biohazard suits designed to keep any space borne organisms from escaping. The experts and the astronauts knew that the odds were one in a billion that something might exist like that, and even if it did there was little chance it would affect life on Earth. However, the dangers of that one in a billion chance were catastrophic. That organism could literally wipe out all life on the planet. Granted, it was so unlikely that the odds of winning the Lottery seem good in comparison. But they took the precautions anyway. Was that paranoia, or reasonable precautions?

I don't have a problem with guns or reasonable gun owners. I have guns myself. I have a problem with gun nuts who feel the need to prance around with a gun in public 24/7. The type person who uses a gun for a political statement, or a fashion statement, and thinks that any attempt to keep guns away from those that shouldn't have them is out of the question. There is a big difference between a responsible gun owner and paranoid gun nuts.

In Georgia you have to have a CCW to open carry. So you don’t see as much of it as you might expect. If you have a license to carry concealed why carry open?

But that is where Reasonable comes in. Not in the carrying. But in the actions. In Georgia it is against the law to handle your weapon in a reckless manner. You can’t fire from inside a car as another example. Except when doing so is in defense of life. So if you were being carjacked you could fire from within the car.

That is the thing about laws. Each law has exceptions. Often a long list of exceptions. But we have exceptions to even the highest law of the land, the Constitution.

Often courts decide what is reasonable. Most often months or years after the fact. Even the irresponsible gun owner is fairly minor in the grand scheme. A vast majority are reasonable and restrained. Far more so than drivers of automobiles on the road every day.

I drive the speed limit or less. I am always passed by pretty much everyone. People exceeding the limit in all weather conditions. Accidents cause far more deaths than guns. Far more than the irresponsible fools you are annoyed with. And the irresponsible fools are usually dealt with by police before too long. Far sooner than the reckless driver.

I am not downplaying the risk or danger from a fool with a gun. We all know someone who has done something dumb. I myself have fired exactly one round unintended. That is in my entire life. It was at a pistol competition and we loaded on the line and just before the range went hot I screwed up and rested my finger on the trigger in anticipation. One round dig into the dirt before me. At least I was pointing the weapon in a safe direction. The Beretta 9MM I was holding did not know I was making an idiotic mistake. It simply felt the pressure on the trigger and fired.

I was 20 years old and knew better. It was incredibly stupid. And I knew the rules. Later I would be an instructor and would always tell the class about my screw up. Break those rules even once to your regret. I was lucky. No one was hurt. The only injury was to my pride and my score in the competition.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

The only reason to fire is I was afeared for my life, or the lives of other innocents.

Afraid = paranoid, mentally ill. Guns are banned.
"My life," lives of others? Oh, you're a danger to your self or others due to your grave mental disability, and you'll have to be committed to a mental institution for your own safety and the safety of others who might be harmed as a result of your delusional thinking disorder.

A lawyer would help you with that.

Sure. A good lawyer always asks for a mental health evaluation by order of the court before representing a client in a gun case.

The Police are not your friend.

No, they're not. Got fingerprints? DNA?Concealed carry permit? They're already working up a cold-case frame-up job and getting a jury picked out to lynch you on a cocked-up murder charge in a capital punishment state. You may not have ever even been in that state in your life, let alone at the time of the alleged murder, but they have a cloud of witnesses who "come forward" on cue.

It just happens to be a little bit more work to frame you on a murder charge than it it is to have you committed to a mental institution for life and revoke your gun rights.

Remember, there is no possible defense in court against a mental health civil commitment as there is for a criminal accusation, even though the consequences are the same: you serve hard time and lose gun rights for life.

Odd. Reasonable fear is something that anyone would feel. If someone admits to a fear of falling from the top of a skyscraper are they mentally ill? Or is it only gun owners?

Paranoid gun owners fear is more akin to fear that someone is going to push them off of a sky scraper. One might be reasonable. The other is usually nuts.

I have a Fire Extinguisher sitting next to my stove. I also have one next to my outdoor grill. Both of course, are the right ones for the types of fires likely to happen in a Kitchen. Is it a Reasonable Fear of fire or an unreasonable fear of fire that I have succumbed to?

I live in an area with likely hurricane activity. Every year I have my Generator serviced, and I check my food supplies to insure the dehydrated food is ready and still good for the upcoming year. I inspect the jugs I intend to store water in, and my solar power system that is designed to power a thermoelectric cooler in case the Generator fails. Is that a reasonable precaution against a likely event, a Hurricane, or a paranoid response?

In my car I have jumper cables, a battery jump starter, first aide kit, and flashlight. Are those reasonable precautions as recommended by the Automobile Association of America? Or a paranoid reaction to an unlikely event.

I am allergic to Wasp Stings. Next to my home First Aide Kit I keep a set of Epipens. Proscribed by my Doctor, and advised to keep them handy. I have not been stung in many years. And the last time I was able to manage the event with Benadryl without resorting to the EpiPen. I did not have difficulty breathing that time. Is it Paranoid to keep the Epipens? Or a wise precaution that might save my life?

Rural Georgia is a lot of wetlands, with associated wildlife. In the area around me I have seen sign of Wild Boar, heard Coyote’s, had reports of foxes, and of course seen snakes and other things. Snakes including Copperheads which are very dangerous to me, and my pets. When I go out into the woods on and adjacent to my property, I carry a revolver loaded with Snakeshot. I do not kill any snakes that are harmless to people and pets. I do not go looking for snakes, but if I come across a copperhead and feel it is a danger to myself or our animals I will shoot it. If it is more than a hundred feet away from the “developed” land, I leave it alone. Is that paranoid, or a reasonable precaution to save the lives of my Cats and Dog?

The line between paranoid and reasonable is not set in stone. The difference is the result if God Forbid the event happens. A couple killed in their home by an invader seems like a good proof of the need for protection. If no one attacks the home, it seems like the precaution is ridiculous.

We require people to wear seatbelts. We require new manufacture cars to have Airbags, and many other safety systems. Despite the fact that most of those cars will never be in a severe accident. An ounce of prevention, is worth a pound of Gold.

Women carry various hygiene products in their purses, or keep them in desks at work. Why? They have a good idea when the event they are preparing for will happen. Why keep things like Tampons and Pads if you know you have at least two weeks before the next event? Yet women still keep things handy despite the fact that the event is reasonably regular, and predictable. I have heard women speak badly of another who had to borrow something like that, because they were not prepared.

I have always believed that one line from the Wiccan Rede was brilliant. Ever since I first read it. As long as you harm none, do what you will. You can buy hundreds of guns and I wouldn’t care. If you use that to harm another, you need a really good reason. A reason that others, not just me, would consider to be reasonable. An intruder coming into your home to threaten you and your family is a pretty good reason in my book.

I hope I do not need the Generator this year. I hope that the Dehydrated food will stay in the bin for another year unused. I hope that I never find myself needing to jump off a car of a stranded soul, or jumping my car off to run it home. I hope I never find myself in a situation where I have to fight for my life, or the lives of my family. But wishes are not fishes. And hope does not prevent accidents, or events that are undesired. I hope never to be afflicted by a stomach virus which causes severe distress. But we all know most of those things will happen, and it is possible, that the defense situation will happen. Possible but not probable.

When the Apollo 11 and 12 crews returned to earth, they were put in biohazard suits designed to keep any space borne organisms from escaping. The experts and the astronauts knew that the odds were one in a billion that something might exist like that, and even if it did there was little chance it would affect life on Earth. However, the dangers of that one in a billion chance were catastrophic. That organism could literally wipe out all life on the planet. Granted, it was so unlikely that the odds of winning the Lottery seem good in comparison. But they took the precautions anyway. Was that paranoia, or reasonable precautions?

It’s this sort of sophistry that makes you and others on the right look silly.

Carrying a gun is nothing like jumper cables or Epipens.

Just as silly is trying ‘justify’ carrying a firearm.

Citizens have the right to carry firearms for lawful self-defense – no ‘justification’ needed.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

The only reason to fire is I was afeared for my life, or the lives of other innocents.

Afraid = paranoid, mentally ill. Guns are banned.
"My life," lives of others? Oh, you're a danger to your self or others due to your grave mental disability, and you'll have to be committed to a mental institution for your own safety and the safety of others who might be harmed as a result of your delusional thinking disorder.

A lawyer would help you with that.

Sure. A good lawyer always asks for a mental health evaluation by order of the court before representing a client in a gun case.

The Police are not your friend.

No, they're not. Got fingerprints? DNA?Concealed carry permit? They're already working up a cold-case frame-up job and getting a jury picked out to lynch you on a cocked-up murder charge in a capital punishment state. You may not have ever even been in that state in your life, let alone at the time of the alleged murder, but they have a cloud of witnesses who "come forward" on cue.

It just happens to be a little bit more work to frame you on a murder charge than it it is to have you committed to a mental institution for life and revoke your gun rights.

Remember, there is no possible defense in court against a mental health civil commitment as there is for a criminal accusation, even though the consequences are the same: you serve hard time and lose gun rights for life.

Odd. Reasonable fear is something that anyone would feel. If someone admits to a fear of falling from the top of a skyscraper are they mentally ill? Or is it only gun owners?

Paranoid gun owners fear is more akin to fear that someone is going to push them off of a sky scraper. One might be reasonable. The other is usually nuts.

I have a Fire Extinguisher sitting next to my stove. I also have one next to my outdoor grill. Both of course, are the right ones for the types of fires likely to happen in a Kitchen. Is it a Reasonable Fear of fire or an unreasonable fear of fire that I have succumbed to?

I live in an area with likely hurricane activity. Every year I have my Generator serviced, and I check my food supplies to insure the dehydrated food is ready and still good for the upcoming year. I inspect the jugs I intend to store water in, and my solar power system that is designed to power a thermoelectric cooler in case the Generator fails. Is that a reasonable precaution against a likely event, a Hurricane, or a paranoid response?

In my car I have jumper cables, a battery jump starter, first aide kit, and flashlight. Are those reasonable precautions as recommended by the Automobile Association of America? Or a paranoid reaction to an unlikely event.

I am allergic to Wasp Stings. Next to my home First Aide Kit I keep a set of Epipens. Proscribed by my Doctor, and advised to keep them handy. I have not been stung in many years. And the last time I was able to manage the event with Benadryl without resorting to the EpiPen. I did not have difficulty breathing that time. Is it Paranoid to keep the Epipens? Or a wise precaution that might save my life?

Rural Georgia is a lot of wetlands, with associated wildlife. In the area around me I have seen sign of Wild Boar, heard Coyote’s, had reports of foxes, and of course seen snakes and other things. Snakes including Copperheads which are very dangerous to me, and my pets. When I go out into the woods on and adjacent to my property, I carry a revolver loaded with Snakeshot. I do not kill any snakes that are harmless to people and pets. I do not go looking for snakes, but if I come across a copperhead and feel it is a danger to myself or our animals I will shoot it. If it is more than a hundred feet away from the “developed” land, I leave it alone. Is that paranoid, or a reasonable precaution to save the lives of my Cats and Dog?

The line between paranoid and reasonable is not set in stone. The difference is the result if God Forbid the event happens. A couple killed in their home by an invader seems like a good proof of the need for protection. If no one attacks the home, it seems like the precaution is ridiculous.

We require people to wear seatbelts. We require new manufacture cars to have Airbags, and many other safety systems. Despite the fact that most of those cars will never be in a severe accident. An ounce of prevention, is worth a pound of Gold.

Women carry various hygiene products in their purses, or keep them in desks at work. Why? They have a good idea when the event they are preparing for will happen. Why keep things like Tampons and Pads if you know you have at least two weeks before the next event? Yet women still keep things handy despite the fact that the event is reasonably regular, and predictable. I have heard women speak badly of another who had to borrow something like that, because they were not prepared.

I have always believed that one line from the Wiccan Rede was brilliant. Ever since I first read it. As long as you harm none, do what you will. You can buy hundreds of guns and I wouldn’t care. If you use that to harm another, you need a really good reason. A reason that others, not just me, would consider to be reasonable. An intruder coming into your home to threaten you and your family is a pretty good reason in my book.

I hope I do not need the Generator this year. I hope that the Dehydrated food will stay in the bin for another year unused. I hope that I never find myself needing to jump off a car of a stranded soul, or jumping my car off to run it home. I hope I never find myself in a situation where I have to fight for my life, or the lives of my family. But wishes are not fishes. And hope does not prevent accidents, or events that are undesired. I hope never to be afflicted by a stomach virus which causes severe distress. But we all know most of those things will happen, and it is possible, that the defense situation will happen. Possible but not probable.

When the Apollo 11 and 12 crews returned to earth, they were put in biohazard suits designed to keep any space borne organisms from escaping. The experts and the astronauts knew that the odds were one in a billion that something might exist like that, and even if it did there was little chance it would affect life on Earth. However, the dangers of that one in a billion chance were catastrophic. That organism could literally wipe out all life on the planet. Granted, it was so unlikely that the odds of winning the Lottery seem good in comparison. But they took the precautions anyway. Was that paranoia, or reasonable precautions?

I don't have a problem with guns or reasonable gun owners. I have guns myself. I have a problem with gun nuts who feel the need to prance around with a gun in public 24/7. The type person who uses a gun for a political statement, or a fashion statement, and thinks that any attempt to keep guns away from those that shouldn't have them is out of the question. There is a big difference between a responsible gun owner and paranoid gun nuts.

Correct.

Carry a gun – or don’t.

But don’t try to contrive ‘guns’ into some sort of ‘political issue.’

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

Afraid = paranoid, mentally ill. Guns are banned.

This is what the police are trained to say BECAUSE this is the LEGAL basis that must be met in order to make valid claim of self-defense.

It also extends applies across the board to everyone else.

 

[Lysistrata]

This thread is tangentially associated with the now famous McMichaels shooting in Georgia. One of the things they did that was stupid was talk to the Police afterwards. I went to a local shop I visit about once a week or so. Inside, I talked to one of the clerks about this situation, and the major mistake made after the shooting. I told him that I belonged to a group that is sort of like an insurance policy for gun owners. It is called USCCA and what they say to do, is say as little as you can get away with legally to the Police after a shooting.

I gave the scenario that he was armed, and someone robs the joint. The baddie turns to go and then the clerk pulls the weapon and fires. Ok, now why did he fire would be important. What he tells the cops he was thinking/feeling is liable to make the difference on if he is charged, or not. A simple misstatement might see you charged as well. If he says he didn’t want the baddie to leave, that changes the flavor of the shooting from defensive, to aggressive, and that would be bad. The only reason to fire is I was afeared for my life, or the lives of other innocents. A lawyer would help you with that.

So what should you do? Burying the body in the backyard is not a good choice. So let’s get realistic. What you should do is exactly the same thing the Cops do. Say nothing at the scene. Make sure the cops see the scene undisturbed, and then ask for a lawyer. Because if a cop is involved in a shooting, before he gives a statement he talks to a lawyer. And that is a cop with far greater authority than you have as a normal civilian.

USCCA does provide the most important thing during that period. They provide money for a lawyer. The lawyer makes sure the story you tell the police, the truth, is phrased exactly right to insure you don’t spend years in prison for your actions. A misstatement, or a statement twisted by the police or the Prosecutor to confuse you could see you charged with a crime.

The Police are not your friend. Remember they don’t talk to each other after a shooting, so why should you talk to them?

If you are curious, check out the United States Concealed Carry Association. USCCA: Self-Defense Knowledge, Training, & Legal Protection

If you don‘t want to join, than read the blog and get some idea of what you might be facing if you use a firearm in self defense.

Final note. I am not debating the shooting in Georgia. The entire point of this is what you should do in a self defense shooting. If you talk to the police, chances are you will talk your way right into prison.

What should a black jogger do when 2 murderous conservatives approach him with shot guns?

How would this "black jogger" know what the political viewpoints of these fellows was? If someone approached me on the street brandishing firearms, the last thing I would be thinking is "who do these fellows support in the upcoming election"

What is an unarmed person to do when approached on the street by two armed thugs?

 

[justinacolmena]

I don't have a problem with guns or reasonable gun owners.

I'm a reasonable gun owner, and you Dems will simply not cease and desist from filing false and slanderous criminal and civil charges of mental illness against me. You and your kind are not being reasonable in any way, shape, or form.

There is a big difference between a responsible gun owner and paranoid gun nuts.

Guns are not sex toys, and gun boobs are no better than gun nuts. People who haven't done anything wrong with a gun shouldn't be held "responsible" for crimes they did not commit.

 

[BULLDOG]

I don't have a problem with guns or reasonable gun owners.

I'm a reasonable gun owner, and you Dems will simply not cease and desist from filing false and slanderous criminal and civil charges of mental illness against me. You and your kind are not being reasonable in any way, shape, or form.

There is a big difference between a responsible gun owner and paranoid gun nuts.

Guns are not sex toys, and gun boobs are no better than gun nuts. People who haven't done anything wrong with a gun shouldn't be held "responsible" for crimes they did not commit.

Putting reasonable limitations on the sale and use of guns is no more blaming innocent people of crimes than speed limits are. Do you think drivers should be allowed to drive as fast as they want just because they haven't killed anyone yet? Reasonable limits make sense.

 

[Levant]

Again, this thread is not intended to debate the shooting in Georgia. There are lots of threads with that topic, and I have posted the laws that were broken. I encourage you to read those threads.

I was speaking more along the lines of incidents like this.



A justified shooting where the bad guys entered the woman’s home. Also in Georgia I might add.

This is as good of an entry point into the thread as any. This woman could have, perhaps should have, perhaps, been arrested. Once the bad guys had gone out the front door she should have stopped shooting. There's heat of the moment and all but she was lucky. Had she killed one she might have ended up in prison.

There was a thread on another forum, a gun forum, years ago. A guy posted that his wife had just shot an intruder and he was about to leave work to get home and check on her - his first fucking reaction was to get online.. For days, he kept posting about it. He said she'd called him when she heard the intruder and that he told her to shoot him. I'm not sure whether I agree with the advice or not - I wasn't there and don't know the circumstances. I absolutely know that this guy needed to throw away his computer and never get one again. I kept telling him to shut up and get off the PC. I pleaded with the mods and the admins to block his account for his wife's sake. Finally, after several days, the removed the thread and blocked his account.

So, one thing to NOT do if you shoot someone: don't get on the fucking computer. You should already know which lawyer you'll call in that circumstance.. Otherwise, that's the only search on the computer. and don't search on details or specifics. The only search is self-defense lawyers.. Then shut your computer off until the whole thing is settled. I hope that lady divorced the idiot who cared more about making his own fame rather than protecting his wife..