What the US can learn from New Zealand political discourse

[martybegan]

Er, no, it's not. The Queen doesn't even have Devine rule in the UK, let alone a sovereign nation like NZ. She is the head of state. Subject/citizen is just semantics. How is it as a 'subject' of NZ I have more rights than you do? Not talking on paper, talking reality.

Head of State, Head of Religion, power flows from her.

What rights do you have that I don't?

 

[martybegan]

Nope. Not in New Zealand. Australia, yes. Georgia in the US, yes. But not lil ole NZ.

Well they ended up there eventually, at least some of them.

New Zealand's dark secret: Many of us are descendants of Australian convicts

 

[Dr Grump]

Well they ended up there eventually, at least some of them.

New Zealand's dark secret: Many of us are descendants of Australian convicts

As are many ancestors in the US....descendants from convicts that is. And?

 

[Dr Grump]

Head of State, Head of Religion, power flows from her.

What rights do you have that I don't?

Please, you are now starting to embarrass yourself. Do a little research on the Queen and what she can and can't do.

Well, what rights do you have that I don't? You infer that I am a subject and somehow inferior. You're making the claims, not me. What can you do that I can't, that I want to do?

 

[frigidweirdo]

There is nothing as corrosive and damaging to the American political discourse as the right wing alternative facts machine.

“When you look at the numbers, New Zealanders have essentially been satisfied with their government since 1999,” said Stephen Mills, the head of UMR, Labour’s polling firm. That period had spanned two Labour and two centre-right National prime ministers – including Ardern – all of whom had led fairly moderate governments.

“A huge reason that our politics is not so extremely polarised and so far out there is because we no longer have Murdoch-owned press in New Zealand, and it’s never taken a foothold,” said David Cormack, the co-founder of a public relations firm and a former head of policy and communications for the left-leaning Green party.

Why New Zealand rejected populist ideas other nations have embraced

They can learn that Proportional Representation leads to less corruption, less control from the rich, more choice for voters, better politicians who are looking for their votes from humans rather than money, and more political parties.

Hence why the rich don't like it. Hence why the manipulated people parrot they don't like it.

 

[martybegan]

Please, you are now starting to embarrass yourself. Do a little research on the Queen and what she can and can't do.

Well, what rights do you have that I don't? You infer that I am a subject and somehow inferior. You're making the claims, not me. What can you do that I can't, that I want to do?

You said you have more rights.

And rights are not about what you want. I never want to use my right to a trial by jury, but I sure as hell want it availible.

 

[kaz]

Who gives a fuck about firearms. Maybe you feel like a big man with it gripped between your dainty little hands. To me you look like a fucking idiot.

DrGrump: They are not confiscating guns, they just made it illegal to own them

DrGrump: They are not confiscating guns because "who gives a fuck" about them

I'm sorry, my friend. Our government schools are that bad too. Wow. I had no idea they were that bad in New Zealand

 

[Dr Grump]

DrGrump: They are not confiscating guns, they just made it illegal to own them

DrGrump: They are not confiscating guns because "who gives a fuck" about them

I'm sorry, my friend. Our government schools are that bad too. Wow. I had no idea they were that bad in New Zealand

That was cnm who said the first part of your post, and the fact you don't see the difference is of no surprise (in terms of what was said, as opposed to who was saying it - yes, I think you're that stupid I have to spell it out for you).

As I mentioned, I can go and get a firearm. You see it as a right. I see it as a privilege.

Yes, your schools must be pretty bad for you to come to the conclusions you have, which are patently wrong.

 

[Dr Grump]

You said you have more rights.

And rights are not about what you want. I never want to use my right to a trial by jury, but I sure as hell want it availible.

And you're saying that I am a subject in a derogatory manner, ergo, you have more rights and are freer than me. I disagree. You see having a firearm as a right. I see it as a privilege. Do I think a society that treats firearms as a privilege as more advanced than a society that thinks it needs to be armed to the hilt? Absolutely. When I think of societies that have my attitude towards firearms I think of Finland, Sweden, UK, France, Germany, Netherlands, Denmark, Australia, Canada, NZ.
When I think of the societies that think like you I look to countries like the US, Angola, Somalia, (insert any third-world shithole here).

See the difference?

 

[martybegan]

And you're saying that I am a subject in a derogatory manner, ergo, you have more rights and are freer than me. I disagree. You see having a firearm as a right. I see it as a privilege. Do I think a society that treats firearms as a privilege as more advanced than a society that thinks it needs to be armed to the hilt? Absolutely. When I think of societies that have my attitude towards firearms I think of Finland, Sweden, UK, France, Germany, Netherlands, Denmark, Australia, Canada, NZ.
When I think of the societies that think like you I look to countries like the US, Angola, Somalia, (insert any third-world shithole here).

See the difference?

All societies where the government and the rulers are more important than the people.

The RKBA puts you on par with government in the ability to use force, anything else makes you a servant.

 

[Dr Grump]

All societies where the government and the rulers are more important than the people.

The RKBA puts you on par with government in the ability to use force, anything else makes you a servant.

First sentence sounds like the US.

LOL...only a US right-wing gun nut would see a correlation between owning a gun and servitude. I see the gun as a yoke around your neck. I see you as the servant...actually, more like a slave or serf...

 

[martybegan]

First sentence sounds like the US.

LOL...only a US right-wing gun nut would see a correlation between owning a gun and servitude. I see the gun as a yoke around your neck. I see you as the servant...actually, more like a slave or serf...

Then you are a deluded twat.

Do you have the equivalent of the 1st amendment? The 4th?

 

[Dr Grump]

Then you are a deluded twat.

Do you have the equivalent of the 1st amendment? The 4th?

Why am I deluded? As I said, how more free are you than me?

It's a different mind set. You see your peashooters as a sign of freedom. Rest of the civilised world laugh at you. When different cultures and countries within the civilised world (Denmark, France, UK, Germany, Australia, Japan, N Korea etc) all have a similar view and yours is opposed, I'm likely to go with the majority 1) Because it's hard to get consensus on anything, and yet despite all their cultural and ethnic backgrounds they come to the same conclusion; 2) we don't live in the wild west; and 3) You do realise that in the infinitesimal chance the govt does come for your guns they'll be arriving APCs and tanks. Good luck testing your AR-15 against that.

We have laws that allow freedom of speech and also make it illegal for searches and seizures that are not connected to law (just like the US - I mean, you do have search warrants, right?)

 

[martybegan]

Why am I deluded? As I said, how more free are you than me?

It's a different mind set. You see your peashooters as a sign of freedom. Rest of the civilised world laugh at you. When different cultures and countries within the civilised world (Denmark, France, UK, Germany, Australia, Japan, N Korea etc) all have a similar view and yours is opposed, I'm likely to go with the majority 1) Because it's hard to get consensus on anything, and yet despite all their cultural and ethnic backgrounds they come to the same conclusion; 2) we don't live in the wild west; and 3) You do realise that in the infinitesimal chance the govt does come for your guns they'll be arriving APCs and tanks. Good luck testing your AR-15 against that.

We have laws that allow freedom of speech and also make it illegal for searches and seizures that are not connected to law (just like the US - I mean, you do have search warrants, right?)

you don't allow a freedom. That's the mindset difference.

 

[kaz]

That was cnm who said the first part of your post, and the fact you don't see the difference is of no surprise (in terms of what was said, as opposed to who was saying it - yes, I think you're that stupid I have to spell it out for you).

As I mentioned, I can go and get a firearm. You see it as a right. I see it as a privilege.

Yes, your schools must be pretty bad for you to come to the conclusions you have, which are patently wrong.

Yes, you would never confuse similar points made two posters arguing the same thing. Pure stupidity. Why don't you get some help for the butt hurt? It's just searing at this point. Maybe you should consider the emergency room.

And yes, in the United States guns are a right. We have this document called a Constitution that enshrines it. You wouldn't know about that.

You are pretty stupid. I'm sorry that your government schools are no better than ours. Our suck too

 

[Dr Grump]

you don't allow a freedom. That's the mindset difference.

Yes, but you Yanks - especially on the right - see to think that individual freedom is the pinnacle of humanity. And once you have decided that, then where does it stop? Americans - in general - think in terms of win/lose. You never have a win/win solution in mind. 'You are with us or against us'. 'If I'm right, you have to be wrong'. It's a race to the bottom. Nothing will come of it. You don't do nuance. Which is a pity.

 

[Dr Grump]

Yes, you would never confuse similar points made two posters arguing the same thing. Pure stupidity. Why don't you get some help for the butt hurt? It's just searing at this point. Maybe you should consider the emergency room.

And yes, in the United States guns are a right. We have this document called a Constitution that enshrines it. You wouldn't know about that.

You are pretty stupid. I'm sorry that your government schools are no better than ours. Our suck too

The only person doing the arguing is you to yourself. I'm having a hard time comprehending what you are trying to say. Considering I have no problems with 99 per cent of other posters on this board when it comes to comprehension, I'm confident I'm not the problem.
And yet your constitution is open to interpretation.
No, our schools are better. Much better.

 

[kaz]

The only person doing the arguing is you to yourself. I'm having a hard time comprehending what you are trying to say. Considering I have no problems with 99 per cent of other posters on this board when it comes to comprehension, I'm confident I'm not the problem.
And yet your constitution is open to interpretation.
No, our schools are better. Much better.

You really are a dick, aren't you? Everyone tells you that, don't they? Be honest

 

[kaz]

Yes, but you Yanks ...

I was watching the Rigby World Cup (like for or so years ago?) in the hotel bar at The Hague (Netherlands) a few years ago (four or five years?). I lived many years in the South, but I was born in Michigan (kaz is for Kalamazoo), so I'm a Northerner, and always will be. The main people I was talking to were a British couple and a very Southern sounding American from Houston.

Anyway, the British man made a reference to the man from Houston and me both as "Yanks." The man from Houston looked at her and very politely but very indignated said, "Sir, I am no Yankee. Enunciating every word of that clearly. LOL.

It was so funny, the English couple both looked very confused. Then they both looked at me and I said "Oh, I'm a Yankee." That didn't reduce their confusion, LOL.

Just FYI. Yankees are:

Yankees are from New York or New England. They call themselves Yankees, there is no confusion.​

​

From the north but not New York or New England, we are aware that Southerners and Brits call us Yankees and we aren't in any way or at all offended by the term. But we do not call ourselves or consider ourselves "Yankees." When you get out further west, Northerners are not considered "Yankees." I'd say the line between Minnesota and the Dakotas would be the line where Southerners stop calling anyone Yankees no matter how for north they are​

​

Southerners - Call anyone from the north Yankees. This is not a compliment. It may or may not be meant as insulting, but it's never a compliment​

​

British - Yanks are any American. I is not an insult​

And now you know, the rest of the story, LOL

 

[Dr Grump]

You really are a dick, aren't you? Everyone tells you that, don't they? Be honest

Nah, not really.