What should abortion laws be?

[Cecilie1200]

Another one for the ignore list (as I really don't like to feed trolls). Recommended reading for you, dear: How to Win Friends and Influence People. Your social 'skills' need a lot of work. It just isn't necessary to be so snarky and nasty.

Toots, just because YOU run around desperately trying to make everyone like you like some demented junior high cheerleader doesn't mean the rest of us are so pathetically eager to please. And NOTHING should make you think that YOU are a desirable social coup for anyone but pitiful losers like JD. I find it very necessary to be so snarky and nasty to you, if only to puncture that huge ego that makes you delusionally believe that people are just DYING for your friendship.

If you're gaining a clue in that obtuse skull of yours that I wouldn't allow such an ignorant naif to be my friend even if you begged, then I'm clearly influencing you very effectively.

Tell me again how a fetus is part of his mother's body, "dear". Tell me how it's a "personal choice" to kill helpless babies. Impress me some more with how much I want to make you like me. As if.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Stop encouraging women to randomly fuck men they aren't interested in raising children with....problem solved.

JD's not trying to convince women to randomly fuck losers, Allie. She's trying to convince herself that it's okay that SHE does.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Stop encouraging women to randomly fuck men they aren't interested in raising children with....problem solved.

And since when are all abortions caused by women fucking random men????

PS- Women are not the sexual gatekeepers. Save your Chastity belt for the convent, love.

Come on JD, ya gotta admit the majority are

oh wait...if they know his name is he still considered random?

He is if they only know it from reading it on his belt buckle, which I'm guessing is how JD identifies most of her dates.

 

[Cecilie1200]

[
Women are not the sexual gatekeepers.

Then shut the fuck up and open your legs, bitch. If you're no gatekeeper, you can't say no.

Congrats, you just said women are nothing more than toys, with no right or ability to chose whom they wish to have sex with.

You can't really be a female, when you spew such misogynistic bullshit throughout this thread.

The other option being that she thinks all women are horny minks who are incapable of stopping themselves from rutting like animals with any man who waves a dick at them, and cannot be expected to exercise self-control and discretion and actually choose to have sex only with men they would actually want to have children with.

Apparently, the idea that ALL people are the sexual gatekeepers for their own sex lives is just beyond her comprehension.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

So, are you saying that 50% of all of the women in the world are hos, just because YOU disagree with their ability to decide to have an abortion??

You have a source for your claim that one-half of all women have abortions?

Twenty-two percent of all pregnancies (excluding miscarriages) end in abortion.[2]

Facts on Induced Abortion in the United States

 

[☭proletarian☭]

In response to earlier bullshit form JD

Abortion Four Times Deadlier Than Childbirth

 

[Cecilie1200]

So, are you saying that 50% of all of the women in the world are hos, just because YOU disagree with their ability to decide to have an abortion??

You have a source for your claim that one-half of all women have abortions?

Twenty-two percent of all pregnancies (excluding miscarriages) end in abortion.[2]

Facts on Induced Abortion in the United States

Plus many of those are repeat customers.

 

[Care4all]

In response to earlier bullshit form JD

Abortion Four Times Deadlier Than Childbirth

very interesting article, thank you for posting the link. Obviously there are women who truly feel no remorse, primarily because they do not believe they are killing a person, and there are those who seem to think the opposite, and can not handle their overwhelming remorse...or their situation was not the best of situations as it stood....they were pregnant, probably left to deal with the situation alone and without the father, chose to abort...though they really did not want to, (due to their more than likely difficult, lonely, or impoverished situation of their own)...who really knows?

These statistics should be made available to the counselors at the clinics, to the gynos and their helpers performing abortions so that they can fully inform the women going there of the risk or be more aware of this and develop some tell tale signs of the women who they deem ones that are more troubled with their decision to abort....like if they are sobbing on the gurney when their legs are being spread and put in to the stirups right before performing it or just crying in all of their visits there prior to the abortion....

I had thought at first, it was going to be a medical reason from the actual procedure that caused more deaths in women with abortions vs those who were pregnant within the year after birth or abortion....had no idea it was suicide....

 

[Cecilie1200]

In response to earlier bullshit form JD

Abortion Four Times Deadlier Than Childbirth

That was a truly fascinating article.

 

[Anguille]

In response to earlier bullshit form JD

Abortion Four Times Deadlier Than Childbirth

very interesting article, thank you for posting the link. Obviously there are women who truly feel no remorse, primarily because they do not believe they are killing a person, and there are those who seem to think the opposite, and can not handle their overwhelming remorse...or their situation was not the best of situations as it stood....they were pregnant, probably left to deal with the situation alone and without the father, chose to abort...though they really did not want to, (due to their more than likely difficult, lonely, or impoverished situation of their own)...who really knows?

These statistics should be made available to the counselors at the clinics, to the gynos and their helpers performing abortions so that they can fully inform the women going there of the risk or be more aware of this and develop some tell tale signs of the women who they deem ones that are more troubled with their decision to abort....like if they are sobbing on the gurney when their legs are being spread and put in to the stirups right before performing it or just crying in all of their visits there prior to the abortion....

I had thought at first, it was going to be a medical reason from the actual procedure that caused more deaths in women with abortions vs those who were pregnant within the year after birth or abortion....had no idea it was suicide....

And how do we know that these women would be better off going through with a pregnancy they had doubts about? How do we know they would not be at even greater risk for post partum depression should they chose to give birth thinking it will solve their problems?

 

[dilloduck]

In response to earlier bullshit form JD

Abortion Four Times Deadlier Than Childbirth

very interesting article, thank you for posting the link. Obviously there are women who truly feel no remorse, primarily because they do not believe they are killing a person, and there are those who seem to think the opposite, and can not handle their overwhelming remorse...or their situation was not the best of situations as it stood....they were pregnant, probably left to deal with the situation alone and without the father, chose to abort...though they really did not want to, (due to their more than likely difficult, lonely, or impoverished situation of their own)...who really knows?

These statistics should be made available to the counselors at the clinics, to the gynos and their helpers performing abortions so that they can fully inform the women going there of the risk or be more aware of this and develop some tell tale signs of the women who they deem ones that are more troubled with their decision to abort....like if they are sobbing on the gurney when their legs are being spread and put in to the stirups right before performing it or just crying in all of their visits there prior to the abortion....

I had thought at first, it was going to be a medical reason from the actual procedure that caused more deaths in women with abortions vs those who were pregnant within the year after birth or abortion....had no idea it was suicide....

And how do we know that these women would be better off going through with a pregnancy they had doubts about? How do we know they would not be at even greater risk for post partum depression should they chose to give birth thinking it will solve their problems?

Because we can see into the future

 

[Anguille]

In response to earlier bullshit form JD

Abortion Four Times Deadlier Than Childbirth

In response to your questionable link.

[SIZE=+3]About U[/SIZE][SIZE=+3]s[/SIZE]About the Elliot Institute: 21+ Years of Pro-Woman/Pro-Life Work
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About the Elliot Institute and How You Can Help

 

[Care4all]

In response to earlier bullshit form JD

Abortion Four Times Deadlier Than Childbirth

very interesting article, thank you for posting the link. Obviously there are women who truly feel no remorse, primarily because they do not believe they are killing a person, and there are those who seem to think the opposite, and can not handle their overwhelming remorse...or their situation was not the best of situations as it stood....they were pregnant, probably left to deal with the situation alone and without the father, chose to abort...though they really did not want to, (due to their more than likely difficult, lonely, or impoverished situation of their own)...who really knows?

These statistics should be made available to the counselors at the clinics, to the gynos and their helpers performing abortions so that they can fully inform the women going there of the risk or be more aware of this and develop some tell tale signs of the women who they deem ones that are more troubled with their decision to abort....like if they are sobbing on the gurney when their legs are being spread and put in to the stirups right before performing it or just crying in all of their visits there prior to the abortion....

I had thought at first, it was going to be a medical reason from the actual procedure that caused more deaths in women with abortions vs those who were pregnant within the year after birth or abortion....had no idea it was suicide....

And how do we know that these women would be better off going through with a pregnancy they had doubts about? How do we know they would not be at even greater risk for post partum depression should they chose to give birth thinking it will solve their problems?

We don't know Anguille....I would imagine they could be more susceptible to post partum depression but I do not know enough about it to say that for certain....but if it is connected then I would have the doc pay close attention to those who are pregnant and deliver and show signs of depression as well...

I am not saying the doc should not perform the abortion...just that some more, in depth counseling should be done, or the patient should be duly warned of the side effects....shoot, we are warned about the possible side effects for medicines we take, (anti depressants can cause suicide in some) and for other operations we may have....(those having a sex change have to go through lengthy psych analysis before the sex change is permitted) that could lead to suicide, why not this as well?

 

[dilloduck]

very interesting article, thank you for posting the link. Obviously there are women who truly feel no remorse, primarily because they do not believe they are killing a person, and there are those who seem to think the opposite, and can not handle their overwhelming remorse...or their situation was not the best of situations as it stood....they were pregnant, probably left to deal with the situation alone and without the father, chose to abort...though they really did not want to, (due to their more than likely difficult, lonely, or impoverished situation of their own)...who really knows?

These statistics should be made available to the counselors at the clinics, to the gynos and their helpers performing abortions so that they can fully inform the women going there of the risk or be more aware of this and develop some tell tale signs of the women who they deem ones that are more troubled with their decision to abort....like if they are sobbing on the gurney when their legs are being spread and put in to the stirups right before performing it or just crying in all of their visits there prior to the abortion....

I had thought at first, it was going to be a medical reason from the actual procedure that caused more deaths in women with abortions vs those who were pregnant within the year after birth or abortion....had no idea it was suicide....

And how do we know that these women would be better off going through with a pregnancy they had doubts about? How do we know they would not be at even greater risk for post partum depression should they chose to give birth thinking it will solve their problems?

We don't know Anguille....I would imagine they could be more susceptible to post partum depression but I do not know enough about it to say that for certain....but if it is connected then I would have the doc pay close attention to those who are pregnant and deliver and show signs of depression as well...

I am not saying the doc should not perform the abortion...just that some more, in depth counseling should be done, or the patient should be duly warned of the side effects....shoot, we are warned about the possible side effects for medicines we take, (anti depressants can cause suicide in some) and for other operations we may have....(those having a sex change have to go through lengthy psych analysis before the sex change is permitted) that could lead to suicide, why not this as well?

Because you might make em feel bad---you KNOW that's why you would do it !

 

[☭proletarian☭]

Moron.

This well-designed record-based study is from STAKES, the statistical analysis unit of Finland's National Research and Development Center for Welfare and Health.

[SIZE=-1]1. Gissler, M., et. al., "Pregnancy-associated deaths in Finland 1987-1994 -- definition problems and benefits of record linkage," Acta Obsetricia et Gynecolgica Scandinavica 76:651-657 (1997).


[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]4. S. J. Drower, & E. S. Nash, "Therapeutic Abortion on Psychiatric Grounds," South African Medical Journal 54:604-608, Oct. 7, 1978; B. Jansson, Acta Psychiatrica Scandinavia 41:87, 1965.


and more


Read the sources at the bottom of the page.

Nice attempt at attacking the group reporting the results when you're unable to find fault with the study, though.


Just goes to prove once again, ho dishonest you are.
[/SIZE]

 

[Anguille]

Moron.

This well-designed record-based study is from STAKES, the statistical analysis unit of Finland's National Research and Development Center for Welfare and Health.

[SIZE=-1]1. Gissler, M., et. al., "Pregnancy-associated deaths in Finland 1987-1994 -- definition problems and benefits of record linkage," Acta Obsetricia et Gynecolgica Scandinavica 76:651-657 (1997).


[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]4. S. J. Drower, & E. S. Nash, "Therapeutic Abortion on Psychiatric Grounds," South African Medical Journal 54:604-608, Oct. 7, 1978; B. Jansson, Acta Psychiatrica Scandinavia 41:87, 1965.


and more


Read the sources at the bottom of the page.

Nice attempt at attacking the group reporting the results when you're unable to find fault with the study, though.


Just goes to prove once again, ho dishonest you are.
[/SIZE]

Can you explain why I can find no mention of this "study' anywhere on the net other than on anti-abortion sites? You'd think it would be mentioned on some medical sites, in Wikipedia.

The article doesn't even give the name of this "study" It keeps refering to it as STAKES but STAKES is just the name for the statistical analysis unit of Finland's National Research and Development Center for Welfare and Health. The article is full of supposition and biased statements. I think it's hoax.

 

[Anguille]

Am J Obstet Gynecol. 2004 Feb;190(2):422-7.
Pregnancy-associated mortality after birth, spontaneous abortion, or induced abortion in Finland, 1987-2000.

Gissler M, Berg C, Bouvier-Colle MH, Buekens P.
National Research and Development Centre for Welfare and Health, Information Division, Helsinki, Finland. mika.kissler@stakes.fi
Comment in:

• Am J Obstet Gynecol. 2004 Dec;191(6):2182; author reply 2182-3.
• Am J Obstet Gynecol. 2004 Oct;191(4):1506-7.

OBJECTIVE: To test the hypothesis that pregnant and recently pregnant women enjoy a "healthy pregnant women effect," we compared the all natural cause mortality rates for women who were pregnant or within 1 year of pregnancy termination with all other women of reproductive age. STUDY DESIGN: This is a population-based, retrospective cohort study from Finland for a 14-year period, 1987 to 2000. Information on all deaths of women aged 15 to 49 years in Finland (n=15,823) was received from the Cause-of-Death Register and linked to the Medical Birth Register (n=865,988 live births and stillbirths), the Register on Induced Abortions (n=156,789 induced abortions), and the Hospital Discharge Register (n=118,490 spontaneous abortions) to identify pregnancy-associated deaths (n=419). RESULTS: The age-adjusted mortality rate for women during pregnancy and within 1 year of pregnancy termination was 36.7 deaths per 100,000 pregnancies, which was significantly lower than the mortality rate among nonpregnant women, 57.0 per 100,000 person-years (relative risk [RR] 0.64, 95% CI 0.58-0.71). The mortality was lower after a birth (28.2/100,000) than after a spontaneous (51.9/100,000) or induced abortion (83.1/100,000). We observed a significant increase in the risk of death from cerebrovascular diseases after delivery among women aged 15 to 24 years (RR 4.08, 95% CI 1.58-10.55). CONCLUSION: Our study supports the healthy pregnant woman effect for all pregnancies, including those not ending in births.

PMID: 14981384 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Pregnancy-associated mortality after birth, sponta... [Am J Obstet Gynecol. 2004] - PubMed result

This description makes no mention of abortion's possible effects.

 

[Anguille]

very interesting article, thank you for posting the link. Obviously there are women who truly feel no remorse, primarily because they do not believe they are killing a person, and there are those who seem to think the opposite, and can not handle their overwhelming remorse...or their situation was not the best of situations as it stood....they were pregnant, probably left to deal with the situation alone and without the father, chose to abort...though they really did not want to, (due to their more than likely difficult, lonely, or impoverished situation of their own)...who really knows?

These statistics should be made available to the counselors at the clinics, to the gynos and their helpers performing abortions so that they can fully inform the women going there of the risk or be more aware of this and develop some tell tale signs of the women who they deem ones that are more troubled with their decision to abort....like if they are sobbing on the gurney when their legs are being spread and put in to the stirups right before performing it or just crying in all of their visits there prior to the abortion....

I had thought at first, it was going to be a medical reason from the actual procedure that caused more deaths in women with abortions vs those who were pregnant within the year after birth or abortion....had no idea it was suicide....

And how do we know that these women would be better off going through with a pregnancy they had doubts about? How do we know they would not be at even greater risk for post partum depression should they chose to give birth thinking it will solve their problems?

We don't know Anguille....I would imagine they could be more susceptible to post partum depression but I do not know enough about it to say that for certain....but if it is connected then I would have the doc pay close attention to those who are pregnant and deliver and show signs of depression as well...

I am not saying the doc should not perform the abortion...just that some more, in depth counseling should be done, or the patient should be duly warned of the side effects....shoot, we are warned about the possible side effects for medicines we take, (anti depressants can cause suicide in some) and for other operations we may have....(those having a sex change have to go through lengthy psych analysis before the sex change is permitted) that could lead to suicide, why not this as well?

Do doctors warn women about the possible psychological effects of giving birth? No doubt some do, just as no doubt some abortion providers warn of the same to abortion patients. Where do people get the idea that these things are never discussed? Why do you think 'some more, in depth counseling should be done? What additional counseling do you suggest and do you really think that what you read on this anti-abortion website is giving you a truthful picture of what is commonly discussed between patient and doctor or that it is even presenting the statistics in an honest way?

 

[Anguille]

The Eliot Institute reveals itself to be a completely misleading and biased site. This is what they provide on their research page. And it's only a sample. lol!!!

More Research on Post-Abortion Issues

Most Compelling, Up-to-date Information on the Forbidden Grief of Abortion Published in New Book
Clinical Depression / Abortion Link Reported in Top Journal
Rape and Incest Victims Reject and Regret Abortions. New Book Surveys 192 Victims
Complications of Delivery Linked to Prior Abortion: New Study
Q & A: Finding Real Answers about Abortion
New Study Confirms Link Between Abortion and Substance Abuse
Women's Mental Health Declines After Abortion While Childbirth Helps: Two New Studies
Pro-choice Researchers Acknowledge Existence of "Postabortion Syndrome" — Half a Million Affected
Bibliography Visit the Thomas W. Strahan Memorial Library for a very extensive bibliography of published studies on the detrimental effects of abortion. An excellent resource for students and researchers!
​

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]www.afterabortion.org[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]copyright 2000 Elliot Institute
Regarding Permission to Reprint [/FONT]

 

[Care4all]

And how do we know that these women would be better off going through with a pregnancy they had doubts about? How do we know they would not be at even greater risk for post partum depression should they chose to give birth thinking it will solve their problems?

We don't know Anguille....I would imagine they could be more susceptible to post partum depression but I do not know enough about it to say that for certain....but if it is connected then I would have the doc pay close attention to those who are pregnant and deliver and show signs of depression as well...

I am not saying the doc should not perform the abortion...just that some more, in depth counseling should be done, or the patient should be duly warned of the side effects....shoot, we are warned about the possible side effects for medicines we take, (anti depressants can cause suicide in some) and for other operations we may have....(those having a sex change have to go through lengthy psych analysis before the sex change is permitted) that could lead to suicide, why not this as well?

Do doctors warn women about the possible psychological effects of giving birth? No doubt some do, just as no doubt some abortion providers warn of the same to abortion patients. Where do people get the idea that these things are never discussed? Why do you think 'some more, in depth counseling should be done? What additional counseling do you suggest and do you really think that what you read on this anti-abortion website is giving you a truthful picture of what is commonly discussed between patient and doctor or that it is even presenting the statistics in an honest way?

I don't know if women are warned of the consequences or risks of pregnancy or post partum depression, I have never had a child.... and I am uncertain if docs warn those aborting of all of the possible side affects either....

But I do believe that BOTH should be warned of such, because it is the RIGHT thing to do.