What role does Affirmative Action play in the events playing out in Ferguson?

[JoeB131]

Joe, I'm sorry that Long John Silvers, McDonalds, Taco Bell and Burger King have all fired you, but for the love of God, there are lots of other fast food joints. Some even owned by minorities.

I do love how you guys want to make it a personal issue.

Of course, if I had to defend racism and economic inequality, I'd be trying to change the subject, too.

Like I said, I used to be as Right wing as most of you clowns. Now I know better.

For the record, I have 30 years experience in Logistic and Purchasing Management, I'm Six Sigma and APICS certified.

And every civilian employer I've worked for has been some kind of douchebag.

 

[JoeB131]

You miss the effectiveness of affirmative action

Who gives a damn? For every unqualified person to be admitted a qualified person who earned a shot is denied opportunity simply due to his being white.

Ohhhh.... poor white people, they have so little.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

You miss the effectiveness of affirmative action

Who gives a damn? For every unqualified person to be admitted an qualified person who earned a shot is denied opportunity simply due to his being white.

He's avoided that entire argument by claiming that affirmative action has made sure that under qualified whites haven't been hired of qualified minorities,

So, I've also changed my question. Where does the government get off telling me I must hire qualified help?

The same way it gets off telling you that you can't dump carcinogens into the local water supply or you can't have a machine on your shop floor that regularly takes the arms off the hired help.

The common good outweighs your desires. You don't like it, too bad.

Because, frankly, integrating minorities into the work force is a greater common good than whether you get to run your business your way.

Please explain how my company being competent has any affect on the greater good.

If my company isn't competent it probably won't last long. Has nothing to do with the government., self preservation says I should probably hire competent help.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

Joe, I'm sorry that Long John Silvers, McDonalds, Taco Bell and Burger King have all fired you, but for the love of God, there are lots of other fast food joints. Some even owned by minorities.

I do love how you guys want to make it a personal issue.

Of course, if I had to defend racism and economic inequality, I'd be trying to change the subject, too.

Like I said, I used to be as Right wing as most of you clowns. Now I know better.

For the record, I have 30 years experience in Logistic and Purchasing Management, I'm Six Sigma and APICS certified.

And every civilian employer I've worked for has been some kind of douchebag.

LOL you remind me of my ex wife. we got married when we were 19 divorced by the time we were 21. She just divorced her FOURTH husband.

We were all douchebags.....

 

[JoeB131]

[

LOL you remind me of my ex wife. we got married when we were 19 divorced by the time we were 21. She just divorced her FOURTH husband.

We were all douchebags.......

Since I don't know your wife, I can't comment on who was in the wrong there. Given the typical callousness and selfishness you've shown here, though...

But my roll call of infamy includes the company that lied to us about closing down our facility for a year, before they actually did. THis was my first job out of the Army. We had to call OSHA on these clowns to get them to provide us with the proper equipment to do our jobs. In the four years I was there, they had nearly 90% turnover of employees.

Second job was the one where they fired the gal for being gay.

Third job was the Japanese Company. They weren't that bad, except the right hand didn't know what the left hand was doing half the time. I probably have the least complaints with this company, because they actually let people go based on seniority. They probably shouldn't have expanded the team they were planning to eliminate, though.

The capper were the last bunch before this one. These were the guys who fired employees if they had medical issues. Pretty much after that, I stopped making excuses for employers. I do caveat that if I had left at Year 5, I'd probably not be quite so bitter. It was the last year they pretty much screwed me over after I destroyed my knee.

The current bunch. NOt bad people, but they pay really crappy and they've been moving the jobs overseas, which is why I'm on the hunt again after six years.

Now, here's the thing. When you get rid of unions, when you have Republicans not standing up for working folks, you get behavior like this.

And, no, I'm not swayed that this is okay because, "It's my property" or "Freedom" or any of the other excuses for selfishness you guys come up with.

 

[JoeB131]

I should point of the companies I worked for, the two involved in the least amount of douchebaggery were the Japanese and British owned companies. Not a good commentary on American attitudes towards working folks.

 

[rightwinger]

You miss the effectiveness of affirmative action

Who gives a damn? For every unqualified person to be admitted a qualified person who earned a shot is denied opportunity simply due to his being white.

Ohhhh.... poor white people, they have so little.

They used to have all the top jobs set aside for them

That is why they hate affirmative action

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

[

LOL you remind me of my ex wife. we got married when we were 19 divorced by the time we were 21. She just divorced her FOURTH husband.

We were all douchebags.......

Since I don't know your wife, I can't comment on who was in the wrong there. Given the typical callousness and selfishness you've shown here, though...

But my roll call of infamy includes the company that lied to us about closing down our facility for a year, before they actually did. THis was my first job out of the Army. We had to call OSHA on these clowns to get them to provide us with the proper equipment to do our jobs. In the four years I was there, they had nearly 90% turnover of employees.

Second job was the one where they fired the gal for being gay.

Third job was the Japanese Company. They weren't that bad, except the right hand didn't know what the left hand was doing half the time. I probably have the least complaints with this company, because they actually let people go based on seniority. They probably shouldn't have expanded the team they were planning to eliminate, though.

The capper were the last bunch before this one. These were the guys who fired employees if they had medical issues. Pretty much after that, I stopped making excuses for employers. I do caveat that if I had left at Year 5, I'd probably not be quite so bitter. It was the last year they pretty much screwed me over after I destroyed my knee.

The current bunch. NOt bad people, but they pay really crappy and they've been moving the jobs overseas, which is why I'm on the hunt again after six years.

Now, here's the thing. When you get rid of unions, when you have Republicans not standing up for working folks, you get behavior like this.

And, no, I'm not swayed that this is okay because, "It's my property" or "Freedom" or any of the other excuses for selfishness you guys come up with.

Highly illegal, and I doubt it happened.

 

[JoeB131]

[

Please explain how my company being competent has any affect on the greater good.

If my company isn't competent it probably won't last long. Has nothing to do with the government., self preservation says I should probably hire competent help.

It's not a matter of competence, it's a matter of common good. If your company goes out of business but poisons the water supply, then it didn't matter if you were a good businessman or not. the damage you did to everyone else is far greater.

Anyone who tells me he can't find competetent people of color is just plain old lying. Sorry, I've been in the civilian workplace for 22 years. I have yet to meet the "Got Hired for Affirmative Action" incompetent. I have met the Idiot cousin and the friend of the friend and the drinking buddy.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

[

Please explain how my company being competent has any affect on the greater good.

If my company isn't competent it probably won't last long. Has nothing to do with the government., self preservation says I should probably hire competent help.

It's not a matter of competence, it's a matter of common good. If your company goes out of business but poisons the water supply, then it didn't matter if you were a good businessman or not. the damage you did to everyone else is far greater.

Anyone who tells me he can't find competetent people of color is just plain old lying. Sorry, I've been in the civilian workplace for 22 years. I have yet to meet the "Got Hired for Affirmative Action" incompetent. I have met the Idiot cousin and the friend of the friend and the drinking buddy.

Poising the water supply is illegal regardless of who I hire.

Next

 

[JoeB131]

[

The capper were the last bunch before this one. These were the guys who fired employees if they had medical issues.

Highly illegal, and I doubt it happened.

Technically, prostitution and drugs are "highly illegal". Yet it still happens.

Here's the problem with that. We do have common sense laws that keep people from doing what you say. But in IL and most states, they have "At Will" employment.

Now, in my case, they first tried to reclassify my job to something that wasn't my field. When I did really well at that, they gave me no responsibilities at all. The idea was to get me to quit on my own. Finally, they just paid me a severance package if I promised not to sue them.

And I was lucky in that I had been there six years and had a firm work record with six years of solid reviews. They also made a show of firing the idiot cousin at the same time and then rehiring her a few weeks later. (They then fired a dozen more senior employees a few months after that.)

Other people weren't so lucky. Two girls with less than a year in got fired right after they announced to the office they were pregnant. Another fellow with 20 years with the company snapped a tendon in his arm and was let go almost as soon as the therapist cleared him to go back to work.

The problem is, you could file a lawsuit. One guy did and eventually got a settlement for $300,000, but it took him three years.

 

[JoeB131]

[

Poising the water supply is illegal regardless of who I hire.

Next

discriminating against people due to skin color, sex or disability is illegal regardless of who you hire.

Next.

 

[Oldstyle]

[

Capitalism replaced feudal economics, Joe and brought more people out of abject poverty than anything that's ever happened on this planet. Don't let your "foaming at the mouth" hatred of everyone you've ever worked for blind you to how much better off workers are NOW than they were back in olden times! If it wasn't for Capitalism we wouldn't have Labor Day...we'd have "Serf Day".

Yeah, but it wasn't because of Capitalism. Correlation does not equal causality.

Or to put it another way, Captialism was developed in the 16th Century. Working folks didn't really get out of poverty until the 20th. (And there are still far more people who go to bed hungry every night than who can call themselves "Free".)

If workers are better off, it's because Government and Unions did something about it, not the greedy Capitalists.

Joe...you are SO clueless about economic history it's amusing to watch you spout off with this nonsense!

The truth is that with the advent of capitalism, working people's lot in life improved so drastically it's not even funny and that was LONG before the advent of unions and had little to do with governments. I don't think you have any concept of how miserable an existence it was for laborers back in feudal times. Capitalism changed EVERYTHING...but you can't see that because of your rabid hatred of your ex-bosses who you think screwed you over!

 

[Oldstyle]

[

Once again, Joe...you can't see the forest for the trees! The government is "obligated" to stop looters from destroying businesses because government understands that it can't exist without the revenues that businesses provide.

I agree. Government is obligated to stop looters.

They are also obligated to stop greedy business owners from cheating their employees and customers.

That's why I always find you anti-Government types so hilarious. YOu aren't against government. You are against government working for the hired help.

I'm not anti-good government, Joe. I am however anti big, bloated and totally inefficient government!

As for "greedy business owners"? The majority of business owners in the US these days go to work every day and struggle just to keep the doors open. They are burdened with mountains of governmental red tape and regulations that further handicap them as they try to keep ungrateful idiots like yourself employed and if they DO make a profit they have to defend themselves from the Left that they don't care about "people"!

 

[Oldstyle]

Why don't you start your own business, Joe? You can show us all how to do it "right".

Oh wait...that would actually require ambition and taking chances...never mind...

 

[JoeB131]

[

Joe...you are SO clueless about economic history it's amusing to watch you spout off with this nonsense!

The truth is that with the advent of capitalism, working people's lot in life improved so drastically it's not even funny and that was LONG before the advent of unions and had little to do with governments. I don't think you have any concept of how miserable an existence it was for laborers back in feudal times. Capitalism changed EVERYTHING...but you can't see that because of your rabid hatred of your ex-bosses who you think screwed you over!

Again, guy, I got a degree in history. Yes, it was probably pretty miserable to work on a medieval farm. It was equally miserable to work in early factories. Children in Coal mines, people who lost fingers in industrial accidents. And the Capitalists were too busy counting their money to make things any better.

Yes, Capitalism changed everything. Just not for the better. We will be very lucky if it doesn't cause the extinction of the whole planet.

 

[JoeB131]

Why don't you start your own business, Joe? You can show us all how to do it "right".

Oh wait...that would actually require ambition and taking chances...never mind...

Isn't that kind of like telling a rape victim to buy a strap on and show us how it's "done right"?

(Incidentally, I do own a business. Thanks.)

 

[JoeB131]

I'm not anti-good government, Joe. I am however anti big, bloated and totally inefficient government!

As for "greedy business owners"? The majority of business owners in the US these days go to work every day and struggle just to keep the doors open. They are burdened with mountains of governmental red tape and regulations that further handicap them as they try to keep ungrateful idiots like yourself employed and if they DO make a profit they have to defend themselves from the Left that they don't care about "people"!

Guy, I deal with small businesses every day. a lot of them spend a lot of time trying to keep on my good side so I throw more orders their way. I'm not impressed with them, really. Most of them probably never should have gone into business to start with.

I could only imagine what some of them would be like if the governmetn wasn't keeping them from pouring garbage into the water supply.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

[

The capper were the last bunch before this one. These were the guys who fired employees if they had medical issues.

Highly illegal, and I doubt it happened.

Technically, prostitution and drugs are "highly illegal". Yet it still happens.

Here's the problem with that. We do have common sense laws that keep people from doing what you say. But in IL and most states, they have "At Will" employment.

Now, in my case, they first tried to reclassify my job to something that wasn't my field. When I did really well at that, they gave me no responsibilities at all. The idea was to get me to quit on my own. Finally, they just paid me a severance package if I promised not to sue them.

And I was lucky in that I had been there six years and had a firm work record with six years of solid reviews. They also made a show of firing the idiot cousin at the same time and then rehiring her a few weeks later. (They then fired a dozen more senior employees a few months after that.)

Other people weren't so lucky. Two girls with less than a year in got fired right after they announced to the office they were pregnant. Another fellow with 20 years with the company snapped a tendon in his arm and was let go almost as soon as the therapist cleared him to go back to work.

The problem is, you could file a lawsuit. One guy did and eventually got a settlement for $300,000, but it took him three years.

Sounds like an evil company. Who ran it, Ebenezer Scrooge?

 

[JoeB131]

[Q


Sounds like an evil company. Who ran it, Ebenezer Scrooge?

Please. Even Scrooge wasn't this intentionally douchy.

I used to think the problem was just this one manager. That said, once he left (only about six months after I did) they brought in some other guy who was just as bad. He just got fired because they caught him with his hand in the till.

The one silver lining. When I got my start writing resumes for people, my first customers were employees of this company.