What role does Affirmative Action play in the events playing out in Ferguson?

[Oldstyle]

You must be an absolute "joy" to work with, Joe! You're the whiniest thing I've run across in years! Everybody else BUT you is to blame for the fact that you don't do well at work. Oh boo hoo!!!

 

[JoeB131]

You must be an absolute "joy" to work with, Joe! You're the whiniest thing I've run across in years! Everybody else BUT you is to blame for the fact that you don't do well at work. Oh boo hoo!!!

I do fine at work, guy.

I just don't kiss management's ass or pretend they are as brilliant as they think they are.

Fact of the matter is I have co-workers from three jobs back willing to do testimonials for me. Even some managers.

 

[Oldstyle]

You must be an absolute "joy" to work with, Joe! You're the whiniest thing I've run across in years! Everybody else BUT you is to blame for the fact that you don't do well at work. Oh boo hoo!!!

I do fine at work, guy.

I just don't kiss management's ass or pretend they are as brilliant as they think they are.

Fact of the matter is I have co-workers from three jobs back willing to do testimonials for me. Even some managers.

Oh, I'm sure you were the popular guy around, Joe! You're such an up beat ray of sunshine! Why do I have the feeling your co-workers would probably be willing to give you a testimonial because they were all worried you'd show up at work with an assault rifle one day and they didn't want to be on "Crazy Joe's" hit list?

 

[JoeB131]

[

Oh, I'm sure you were the popular guy around, Joe! You're such an up beat ray of sunshine! Why do I have the feeling your co-workers would probably be willing to give you a testimonial because they were all worried you'd show up at work with an assault rifle one day and they didn't want to be on "Crazy Joe's" hit list?

Right. Because clearly you know me better than people who work with me in person every day.

YOu see, guy, I don't speculate on you much beyond what you say here. Which is usually incriminating enough.

Hey, guy, here's the thing. Capitalism is a shit sandwich for most working people. I know you have a hard time grasping that why you wonder why Obama got elected twice, but most of us don't see a political system that only benefits the few at the expense of the rest of us as a good thing.

Main reason why I'm liked by my co-workers. I'm funny and no matter how busy I am, I'm always willing to stop what I'm doing to help someone with a problem. These things probably don't even rate in your "I've got mine, Screw you" world of Ayn Rand worship.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

You must be an absolute "joy" to work with, Joe! You're the whiniest thing I've run across in years! Everybody else BUT you is to blame for the fact that you don't do well at work. Oh boo hoo!!!

I do fine at work, guy.

I just don't kiss management's ass or pretend they are as brilliant as they think they are.

Fact of the matter is I have co-workers from three jobs back willing to do testimonials for me. Even some managers.

Oh, that IS impressive.

Not


You don't seem to understand that you are at work to do a job. PERIOD. Not make political statements, nor whine about the unfair treatment. You don't like it, leave.

Now , back to affirmative action. You still have not given me a legitimate reason why the government should be able to force me to hire competent help if I don't want to.

 

[Oldstyle]

[

Oh, I'm sure you were the popular guy around, Joe! You're such an up beat ray of sunshine! Why do I have the feeling your co-workers would probably be willing to give you a testimonial because they were all worried you'd show up at work with an assault rifle one day and they didn't want to be on "Crazy Joe's" hit list?

Right. Because clearly you know me better than people who work with me in person every day.

YOu see, guy, I don't speculate on you much beyond what you say here. Which is usually incriminating enough.

Hey, guy, here's the thing. Capitalism is a shit sandwich for most working people. I know you have a hard time grasping that why you wonder why Obama got elected twice, but most of us don't see a political system that only benefits the few at the expense of the rest of us as a good thing.

Main reason why I'm liked by my co-workers. I'm funny and no matter how busy I am, I'm always willing to stop what I'm doing to help someone with a problem. These things probably don't even rate in your "I've got mine, Screw you" world of Ayn Rand worship.

I hate to pour ice water on your little rant, Joey...but capitalism has taken more of the world's people out of poverty than any other thing that's ever happened in the history of this planet.

You're funny all right...

 

[JoeB131]

[

Oh, that IS impressive.

Not

You don't seem to understand that you are at work to do a job. PERIOD. Not make political statements, nor whine about the unfair treatment. You don't like it, leave.

Already working on that, but that's not the point I was making. If I do show up and do the job, then I expect people to do what they promise to do. For instance, if they say, "Hey, Joe, your compensation includes medical insurance", I don't expect them to spend a year trying to get me off the payroll because I actually filed a claim against that insurance.

[
Now , back to affirmative action. You still have not given me a legitimate reason why the government should be able to force me to hire competent help if I don't want to.

Sure. For the same reason the government is obligated to stop the brothers from looting your place of business. Because your business can't exist without the government allowing it to.

 

[JoeB131]

[

I hate to pour ice water on your little rant, Joey...but capitalism has taken more of the world's people out of poverty than any other thing that's ever happened in the history of this planet.

You're funny all right...

Capitalism has done nothing of the sort.

What took people out of poverty is democracy and the willingness of working people to fight for a fair deal.

That's why we have a holiday called "Labor Day".

We don't have one called "Capitalist's Day".

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

[

Oh, that IS impressive.

Not

You don't seem to understand that you are at work to do a job. PERIOD. Not make political statements, nor whine about the unfair treatment. You don't like it, leave.

Already working on that, but that's not the point I was making. If I do show up and do the job, then I expect people to do what they promise to do. For instance, if they say, "Hey, Joe, your compensation includes medical insurance", I don't expect them to spend a year trying to get me off the payroll because I actually filed a claim against that insurance.

[
Now , back to affirmative action. You still have not given me a legitimate reason why the government should be able to force me to hire competent help if I don't want to.

Sure. For the same reason the government is obligated to stop the brothers from looting your place of business. Because your business can't exist without the government allowing it to.

I expect people to take keep their word to, and if they don't I move on. I don't cry to the government.

 

[Oldstyle]

[

Oh, that IS impressive.

Not

You don't seem to understand that you are at work to do a job. PERIOD. Not make political statements, nor whine about the unfair treatment. You don't like it, leave.

Already working on that, but that's not the point I was making. If I do show up and do the job, then I expect people to do what they promise to do. For instance, if they say, "Hey, Joe, your compensation includes medical insurance", I don't expect them to spend a year trying to get me off the payroll because I actually filed a claim against that insurance.

[
Now , back to affirmative action. You still have not given me a legitimate reason why the government should be able to force me to hire competent help if I don't want to.

Sure. For the same reason the government is obligated to stop the brothers from looting your place of business. Because your business can't exist without the government allowing it to.

Once again, Joe...you can't see the forest for the trees! The government is "obligated" to stop looters from destroying businesses because government understands that it can't exist without the revenues that businesses provide.

 

[Oldstyle]

[

I hate to pour ice water on your little rant, Joey...but capitalism has taken more of the world's people out of poverty than any other thing that's ever happened in the history of this planet.

You're funny all right...

Capitalism has done nothing of the sort.

What took people out of poverty is democracy and the willingness of working people to fight for a fair deal.

That's why we have a holiday called "Labor Day".

We don't have one called "Capitalist's Day".

Capitalism replaced feudal economics, Joe and brought more people out of abject poverty than anything that's ever happened on this planet. Don't let your "foaming at the mouth" hatred of everyone you've ever worked for blind you to how much better off workers are NOW than they were back in olden times! If it wasn't for Capitalism we wouldn't have Labor Day...we'd have "Serf Day".

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

Back to the actual topic, has anyone as of yet provided a logical reason why the government should be allowed to prevent me from hiring incompetent workers if I wish?

 

[JoeB131]

[

I expect people to take keep their word to, and if they don't I move on. I don't cry to the government.

well, I do take it to the government if I think they can manage things better.

For instance, we should take the whole health care thing completely out of the hands of employers. Single Payer, government sets costs, which is exactly what every other industrialized nation does.

 

[JoeB131]

[

Capitalism replaced feudal economics, Joe and brought more people out of abject poverty than anything that's ever happened on this planet. Don't let your "foaming at the mouth" hatred of everyone you've ever worked for blind you to how much better off workers are NOW than they were back in olden times! If it wasn't for Capitalism we wouldn't have Labor Day...we'd have "Serf Day".

Yeah, but it wasn't because of Capitalism. Correlation does not equal causality.

Or to put it another way, Captialism was developed in the 16th Century. Working folks didn't really get out of poverty until the 20th. (And there are still far more people who go to bed hungry every night than who can call themselves "Free".)

If workers are better off, it's because Government and Unions did something about it, not the greedy Capitalists.

 

[Rikurzhen]

You miss the effectiveness of affirmative action

Who gives a damn? For every unqualified person to be admitted a qualified person who earned a shot is denied opportunity simply due to his being white.

 

[JoeB131]

[

Once again, Joe...you can't see the forest for the trees! The government is "obligated" to stop looters from destroying businesses because government understands that it can't exist without the revenues that businesses provide.

I agree. Government is obligated to stop looters.

They are also obligated to stop greedy business owners from cheating their employees and customers.

That's why I always find you anti-Government types so hilarious. YOu aren't against government. You are against government working for the hired help.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

You miss the effectiveness of affirmative action

Who gives a damn? For every unqualified person to be admitted an qualified person who earned a shot is denied opportunity simply due to his being white.

He's avoided that entire argument by claiming that affirmative action has made sure that under qualified whites haven't been hired of qualified minorities,

So, I've also changed my question. Where does the government get off telling me I must hire qualified help?

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

Joe, I'm sorry that Long John Silvers, McDonalds, Taco Bell and Burger King have all fired you, but for the love of God, there are lots of other fast food joints. Some even owned by minorities.

 

[JoeB131]

You miss the effectiveness of affirmative action

Who gives a damn? For every unqualified person to be admitted an qualified person who earned a shot is denied opportunity simply due to his being white.

He's avoided that entire argument by claiming that affirmative action has made sure that under qualified whites haven't been hired of qualified minorities,

So, I've also changed my question. Where does the government get off telling me I must hire qualified help?

The same way it gets off telling you that you can't dump carcinogens into the local water supply or you can't have a machine on your shop floor that regularly takes the arms off the hired help.

The common good outweighs your desires. You don't like it, too bad.

Because, frankly, integrating minorities into the work force is a greater common good than whether you get to run your business your way.

 

[rightwinger]

You miss the effectiveness of affirmative action

Who gives a damn? For every unqualified person to be admitted a qualified person who earned a shot is denied opportunity simply due to his being white.

Not every job opening comes down to one qualified guy and everyone else is unqualified

Affirmative action has helped every American. The major beneficiaries have been women.

Affirmative action only hurt white males who were used to having jobs reserved for them