What Offense Did the Ukrainian People Commit That Caused Them to Be Bombed into Oblivion by The Russian Military at the Command of Putin?

[AntonToo]

BTW, I don't think they started 'from zero'. Being based on my former neighbours' experience, they got a legal status, social housing, medical insurance, food stamps, living allowance etc.

That is the zero in United States, all lawful status residents have those safety nets.

 

[ESay]

They left when they've got a chance.

Sure, but the first programs for your ilk in the SU started in the late 1970s.

 

[ESay]

That is the zero in United States, all lawful status residents have those safety nets.

Ask Mexicans what 'zero' means.

 

[Deadstick]

IN the days and hours before Russia invaded, Ukraine had an army of around 150,000 troops massing and preparing to invade the Donbas.

This is why Russia went into Ukraine with significantly less forces than the whole of the Ukrainaian armed forces. Most folks know, that the invader usually require a 3 to one numbers advantage.

The only numbers Russia was worried about, originally, were those that were already mobilized in Ukraine. They did a feint toward Kiev to make them withdraw. . . temporarily obviously.



Now. . . if the west and the U.S. had forced Zelinsky to keep to the Minsk treaty? None of this would have happened. But the goal of NATO and the west was to provoke Russia to war.

John (RIP) explains it better than I.

I don't know if you know who John Pilger is. . . but he is a real liberal, not like all these neo-con and neo-liberal fascists most folks in Europe and America keep posting and listening to.

February 18, 2022

War in Europe and the Rise of Raw Propaganda​

by John Pilger

War in Europe and the Rise of Raw Propaganda

Marshall McLuhan’s prophecy that “the successor to politics will be propaganda” has happened. Raw propaganda is now the rule in Western democracies, especially the US and Britain On matters of war and peace, ministerial deceit is reported as news. Inconvenient facts are censored, demons are...

www.counterpunch.org

". . . The no-evidence rule also applies in London. The British Foreign Secretary, Liz Truss, who spent £500,000 of public money flying to Australia in a private plane to warn the Canberra government that both Russia and China were about to pounce, offered no evidence. Antipodean heads nodded; the “narrative” is unchallenged there. One rare exception, former prime minister Paul Keating, called Truss’s warmongering “demented”.

Truss has blithely confused the countries of the Baltic and Black Sea. In Moscow, she told the Russian foreign minister that Britain would never accept Russian sovereignty over Rostov and Voronezh – until it was pointed out to her that these places were not part of Ukraine but in Russia. Read the Russian press about the buffoonery of this pretender to 10 Downing Street and cringe.

This entire farce, recently starring Boris Johnson in Moscow playing a clownish version of his hero, Churchill, might be enjoyed as satire were it not for its wilful abuse of facts and historical understanding and the real danger of war.

Vladimir Putin refers to the “genocide” in the eastern Donbas region of Ukraine. Following the coup in Ukraine in 2014 – orchestrated by Barack Obama’s “point person” in Kyiv, Victoria Nuland – the coup regime, infested with neo-Nazis, launched a campaign of terror against Russian-speaking Donbas, which accounts for a third of Ukraine’s population.

Overseen by CIA director John Brennan in Kyiv, “special security units” coordinated savage attacks on the people of Donbas, who opposed the coup. Video and eyewitness reports show bussed fascist thugs burning the trade union headquarters in the city of Odessa, killing 41 people trapped inside. The police are standing by. Obama congratulated the “duly elected” coup regime for its “remarkable restraint”.

In the US media the Odessa atrocity was played down as “murky” and a “tragedy” in which “nationalists” (neo-Nazis) attacked “separatists” (people collecting signatures for a referendum on a federal Ukraine). Rupert Murdoch’s Wall Street Journal damned the victims – “Deadly Ukraine Fire Likely Sparked by Rebels, Government Says”.

Professor Stephen Cohen, acclaimed as America’s leading authority on Russia, wrote, “The pogrom-like burning to death of ethnic Russians and others in Odessa reawakened memories of Nazi extermination squads in Ukraine during world war two. [Today] storm-like assaults on gays, Jews, elderly ethnic Russians, and other ‘impure’ citizens are widespread throughout Kyiv-ruled Ukraine, along with torchlight marches reminiscent of those that eventually inflamed Germany in the late 1920s and 1930s …"

<snip>

". . . Russian-speaking Ukrainians, under economic blockade by Kyiv for seven years, are fighting for their survival. The “massing” army we seldom hear about are the thirteen Ukrainian army brigades laying siege to Donbas: an estimated 150,000 troops. If they attack, the provocation to Russia will almost certainly mean war.

In 2015, brokered by the Germans and French, the presidents of Russia, Ukraine, Germany and France met in Minsk and signed an interim peace deal. Ukraine agreed to offer autonomy to Donbas, now the self declared republics of Donetsk and Luhansk.

The Minsk agreement has never been given a chance. In Britain, the line, amplified by Boris Johnson, is that Ukraine is being “dictated to” by world leaders. For its part, Britain is arming Ukraine and training its army.. . . "

Here is a phone call between Russia and France, literally HOURS before the invasion, with Putin pleading with the west to abide by the terms of the Minsk Treaty.

Macron and Putin negotiated about Ukraine a while ago​

Leaked phone call reveals fiery exchange between Putin, Macron days before Ukraine war

French President Emmanuel Macron and his Russian counterpart Vladimir Putin had an intense argument over the phone about Ukraine just four days before Moscow’s forces invaded the country.

nypost.com

". . Putin then took issue with Zelensky’s apparent refusal to negotiate with pro-Kremlin Ukrainian separatists, which infuriated the French president and prompted him to exclaim in audible frustration: “I don’t know where your lawyer learned law!”

Un Président, l'Europe et la guerre

Le 1er janvier 2022, la France prend la présidence du Conseil de l'Union européenne. En entamant son mandat le président français entend pousser de nombreuses réformes auprès de ses partenaires. Mais la guerre en Ukraine bouleverse ses plans. L'Europe, stupéfaite, doit alors affronter sur son...

www.france.tv

john Pilger was one of the best investigating Journalists of our times sadly missed, Assange was one of his ilk, and you are correct about the Ukrainians building up forces along the Donbas contact line, that was after Merkel and the Ukrainians had been playing for time with Minsk which they had no intention of going along with.

 

[AntonToo]

Ask Mexicans what 'zero' means.

Mexicans who are here legaly will tell you the same.

 

[AntonToo]

Sure, but the first programs for your ilk in the SU started in the late 1970s.

Don't know what that means or who "my ilk" is.

 

[MisterBeale]

In 1994 when America was pressuring Ukraine to give up it's nuclear weapons.

Memorandum on security assurances in connection with Ukraine’s accession to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons

UNTC

treaties.un.org

The folks that broke this treaty and made it null and void are the west with their coup of 2014.

 

[ESay]

Mexicans who are here legaly will tell you the same.

Doesn't matter. Your family had all needed to start a new life on a new place.

 

[ESay]

Don't know what that means or who "my ilk" is.

'The chosen people'.

 

[AntonToo]

'The chosen people'.

??….are you posting some anti-semite shit?

 

[AntonToo]

The folks that broke this treaty and made it null and void are the west with their coup of 2014.

Pure foolish nonsense, no part of agreement was broken by Ukraine. It gave up its nuclear arsenal to Russia and lived to every promise in the agreement.

INTERNAL Ukrainian politics had no bearing on the international agreement.

 

[ESay]

??….are you posting some anti-semite shit?

No, I answered your question.

 

[justoffal]

that's exactly how our viet nam fiasco began. why do you want to repeat that?

Check it out

 

[AntonToo]

No, I answered your question.

No you didn’t. I don’t know wtf you are talking about.

 

[AntonToo]

IN the days and hours before Russia invaded, Ukraine had an army of around 150,000 troops massing and preparing to invade the Donbas.

This is why Russia went into Ukraine with significantly less forces than the whole of the Ukrainaian armed forces. Most folks know, that the invader usually require a 3 to one numbers advantage.

The only numbers Russia was worried about, originally, were those that were already mobilized in Ukraine. They did a feint toward Kiev to make them withdraw. . . temporarily obviously.



Now. . . if the west and the U.S. had forced Zelinsky to keep to the Minsk treaty? None of this would have happened. But the goal of NATO and the west was to provoke Russia to war.

John (RIP) explains it better than I.

I don't know if you know who John Pilger is. . . but he is a real liberal, not like all these neo-con and neo-liberal fascists most folks in Europe and America keep posting and listening to.

February 18, 2022

War in Europe and the Rise of Raw Propaganda​

by John Pilger

War in Europe and the Rise of Raw Propaganda

Marshall McLuhan’s prophecy that “the successor to politics will be propaganda” has happened. Raw propaganda is now the rule in Western democracies, especially the US and Britain On matters of war and peace, ministerial deceit is reported as news. Inconvenient facts are censored, demons are...

www.counterpunch.org

". . . The no-evidence rule also applies in London. The British Foreign Secretary, Liz Truss, who spent £500,000 of public money flying to Australia in a private plane to warn the Canberra government that both Russia and China were about to pounce, offered no evidence. Antipodean heads nodded; the “narrative” is unchallenged there. One rare exception, former prime minister Paul Keating, called Truss’s warmongering “demented”.

Truss has blithely confused the countries of the Baltic and Black Sea. In Moscow, she told the Russian foreign minister that Britain would never accept Russian sovereignty over Rostov and Voronezh – until it was pointed out to her that these places were not part of Ukraine but in Russia. Read the Russian press about the buffoonery of this pretender to 10 Downing Street and cringe.

This entire farce, recently starring Boris Johnson in Moscow playing a clownish version of his hero, Churchill, might be enjoyed as satire were it not for its wilful abuse of facts and historical understanding and the real danger of war.

Vladimir Putin refers to the “genocide” in the eastern Donbas region of Ukraine. Following the coup in Ukraine in 2014 – orchestrated by Barack Obama’s “point person” in Kyiv, Victoria Nuland – the coup regime, infested with neo-Nazis, launched a campaign of terror against Russian-speaking Donbas, which accounts for a third of Ukraine’s population.

Overseen by CIA director John Brennan in Kyiv, “special security units” coordinated savage attacks on the people of Donbas, who opposed the coup. Video and eyewitness reports show bussed fascist thugs burning the trade union headquarters in the city of Odessa, killing 41 people trapped inside. The police are standing by. Obama congratulated the “duly elected” coup regime for its “remarkable restraint”.

In the US media the Odessa atrocity was played down as “murky” and a “tragedy” in which “nationalists” (neo-Nazis) attacked “separatists” (people collecting signatures for a referendum on a federal Ukraine). Rupert Murdoch’s Wall Street Journal damned the victims – “Deadly Ukraine Fire Likely Sparked by Rebels, Government Says”.

Professor Stephen Cohen, acclaimed as America’s leading authority on Russia, wrote, “The pogrom-like burning to death of ethnic Russians and others in Odessa reawakened memories of Nazi extermination squads in Ukraine during world war two. [Today] storm-like assaults on gays, Jews, elderly ethnic Russians, and other ‘impure’ citizens are widespread throughout Kyiv-ruled Ukraine, along with torchlight marches reminiscent of those that eventually inflamed Germany in the late 1920s and 1930s …"

<snip>

". . . Russian-speaking Ukrainians, under economic blockade by Kyiv for seven years, are fighting for their survival. The “massing” army we seldom hear about are the thirteen Ukrainian army brigades laying siege to Donbas: an estimated 150,000 troops. If they attack, the provocation to Russia will almost certainly mean war.

In 2015, brokered by the Germans and French, the presidents of Russia, Ukraine, Germany and France met in Minsk and signed an interim peace deal. Ukraine agreed to offer autonomy to Donbas, now the self declared republics of Donetsk and Luhansk.

The Minsk agreement has never been given a chance. In Britain, the line, amplified by Boris Johnson, is that Ukraine is being “dictated to” by world leaders. For its part, Britain is arming Ukraine and training its army.. . . "

Here is a phone call between Russia and France, literally HOURS before the invasion, with Putin pleading with the west to abide by the terms of the Minsk Treaty.

Macron and Putin negotiated about Ukraine a while ago​

Leaked phone call reveals fiery exchange between Putin, Macron days before Ukraine war

French President Emmanuel Macron and his Russian counterpart Vladimir Putin had an intense argument over the phone about Ukraine just four days before Moscow’s forces invaded the country.

nypost.com

". . Putin then took issue with Zelensky’s apparent refusal to negotiate with pro-Kremlin Ukrainian separatists, which infuriated the French president and prompted him to exclaim in audible frustration: “I don’t know where your lawyer learned law!”

Un Président, l'Europe et la guerre

Le 1er janvier 2022, la France prend la présidence du Conseil de l'Union européenne. En entamant son mandat le président français entend pousser de nombreuses réformes auprès de ses partenaires. Mais la guerre en Ukraine bouleverse ses plans. L'Europe, stupéfaite, doit alors affronter sur son...

www.france.tv

Cool story useful idiot, but Russia has been amassing troops around Ukraine since Nov 21 and to simply defend LNR/DNR you don’t invade Kiev. You invade Kiev to take over Ukraine.

Ukraine complied with Minsk agreements up until invasion and in fact it was Russia that kept violating the agreements and was sanctioned ever year for non-compliance.

 

[ESay]

No you didn’t. I don’t know wtf you are talking about.

Didn't your parents get a right for emigration into the US because they are Jewish?

 

[AntonToo]

Didn't your parents get a right for emigration into the US because they are Jewish?

Yep, it was an anti-semitic comment just as thought.

Go fuck yourself soviet holdover.

 

[ESay]

Yep, it was an anti-semitic comment just as thought.

Go fuck yourself soviet holdover.

What is antisemitic in stating the fact that your parents are Jewish and that gave them a right to move to the US?

 

[AntonToo]

What is antisemitic in stating the fact that your parents are Jewish and that gave them a right to move to the US?

My parents are not Jewish. My parents are mixed and I consider myself ethnically Russian.

When you’ve made “your ilk” comment, meaning “you jews”, you’ve clearly showed your anti-Semitic mindset.

 

[Deadstick]

My parents are not Jewish. My parents are mixed and I consider myself ethnically Russian.

When you’ve made “your ilk” comment, meaning “you jews”, you’ve clearly showed your anti-Semitic mindset.

Mixed what?