What is your definition of a peoples' right to self-determination?

[RetiredGySgt]

You people are not here for honest discussion. Does your right to self-determination end when it occurs on foreign land?

You are not honesty THE ARABS there made a conscious decision since 1948 NOT to form a Government even when given EVERY chance to do so, in FACT in 1948 if they formed they would have been bigger then Israel. Instead they have steadfastly DEMANDED and WORKED to ELIMINATE Israel and either kill or evict all Jews from land they were entitled too also, you remember your whole self determination of this thread?

We are trying to discuss peoples' rights to self-determination on a foreign continent where they, themselves had never even been to.

NO you are siding with a group of people that want to deny to another group of people the right to self determination. The Arabs want to dispose of all Jews and claim land that belongs to Jews. The Arabs have made that decision since 1948 when if they formed a Country as they could have would have had their own State, Israel begged them to do so and has routinely offered to help them form a Country, Instead the Arabs wish to deny a group of people the right to self determination and they wish to do so BY FORCE.

 

[abi]

NO you are siding with a group of people that want to deny to another group of people the right to self determination. The Arabs want to dispose of all Jews and claim land that belongs to Jews. The Arabs have made that decision since 1948 when if they formed a Country as they could have would have had their own State, Israel begged them to do so and has routinely offered to help them form a Country, Instead the Arabs wish to deny a group of people the right to self determination and they wish to do so BY FORCE.

I don't think you understand the topic.

 

[Shusha]

The right of self-determination applies to the collective Jewish people on the territory where they originated and are indigenous to.

You base your conclusion on all Jews have ancestors who were expelled from that territory. That simply is not true.

Your whole shtick is based on false premise.

My premise is that, collectively, only a peoples has the right to determine who is and who is not part of their collective. That would be the SELF part of self-determination. Its not open to external interference.

But let's just say that only a tiny fraction of Jewish people are ACTUALLY Jews (though we've had this tired conversation before). That tiny fraction has the inherent, inviolable right to have self-determination on their historical homeland. Wouldn't you agree?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

NO you are siding with a group of people that want to deny to another group of people the right to self determination. The Arabs want to dispose of all Jews and claim land that belongs to Jews. The Arabs have made that decision since 1948 when if they formed a Country as they could have would have had their own State, Israel begged them to do so and has routinely offered to help them form a Country, Instead the Arabs wish to deny a group of people the right to self determination and they wish to do so BY FORCE.

I don't think you understand the topic.

I understand PERFECTLY you openly support a group of people that advocate the murder or dislocation of another group of people in a recognized legal Country. You support a group of people that have systematically REFUSED since 1948 to form a Government and instead demand the right to stop the self determination of another group LEGALLY residing on the land. All the while claiming all you want is self determination for the people trying to murder the other group.

 

[abi]

I think I agree up to the historical homeland part. The world voted overwhelmingly multiple times that that is ridiculous.

 

[Shusha]

I think I agree up to the historical homeland part. The world voted overwhelmingly multiple times that that is ridiculous.

You can't POSSIBLY be arguing that the Jewish people should have self-determination in someone else's homeland, can you?

 

[abi]

You can't POSSIBLY be arguing that the Jewish people should have self-determination in someone else's homeland, can you?

No, I feel sorry for you.

 

[Shusha]

You can't POSSIBLY be arguing that the Jewish people should have self-determination in someone else's homeland, can you?

No, I feel sorry for you.

Okay. Then the Jewish people MUST have self-determination on their homeland. Where is that, abi?

 

[Shusha]

Hint: Its not Uganda.

 

[fncceo]

You people are not here for honest discussion.

Weapons-grade irony.

It’s like O. Henry and Alanis Morissette had a baby.

 

[abi]

Self-determination ends when it tramples the rights of others.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Self-determination ends when it tramples the rights of others.

You need to worry about self-determination in all the Muzzie countries.

 

[Shusha]

Self-determination ends when it tramples the rights of others.

Self-determination,of itself, does not trample others rights. It's not a zero sum game.

 

[Boston1]

It's a simple matter of tribal rights. The Judaic people are native to the lands of Judea Samaria and Israel. The Invention, by an Egyptian of so called palestinians in 1967 does not supersede that fact. End of subject

All else is a spurious attempts to marginalize the tribal rights of the Judaic people

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Self-determination ends when it tramples the rights of others.

You mean like how the Arabs want to and attempt to kill Israelis, like that?

 

[BradVesp]

And what, if any, limits are there to this right?

I was looking forward to reading this thread as a philosophical discussion about self-determination, but then then it turned off on a cultural tangent.

Anyway, this is what I was thinking:
A person's right to self-determination is his or her ability anticipate a future happiness; then to and enact it with his or her best abilities. It's self-fulfillment. It's my right to do what I want; to be free.
It's limited when someone else's self-determination impedes my self-determination and when my self-determination impedes someone else's self-determination.

I guess I misread the thread title, too. I misunderstood (or ignored) the "s'" at the end of peoples'. I'm not sure that changes my opinion, though. I think what I said about an individual applies to a group, too.
Either way the inability to share is a problem.
Self-determination is about ego, and it's limits are the reason we share.

 

[P F Tinmore]

And what, if any, limits are there to this right?

I was looking forward to reading this thread as a philosophical discussion about self-determination, but then then it turned off on a cultural tangent.

Anyway, this is what I was thinking:
A person's right to self-determination is his or her ability anticipate a future happiness; then to and enact it with his or her best abilities. It's self-fulfillment. It's my right to do what I want; to be free.
It's limited when someone else's self-determination impedes my self-determination and when my self-determination impedes someone else's self-determination.

I guess I misread the thread title, too. I misunderstood (or ignored) the "s'" at the end of peoples'. I'm not sure that changes my opinion, though. I think what I said about an individual applies to a group, too.
Either way the inability to share is a problem.
Self-determination is about ego, and it's limits are the reason we share.

Peoples is a distinct category.

 

[rylah]

I argue that self -determination will always impede on someones' priorities, wishes and rights.
This is an elementary human conflict. Just show me a govt that doesn't impede on rights of its' own citizens by policing, taxing and setting laws that favor or encourage different groups of society in given time.
Show me a govt like that.

If You think Arab self determination doesn't impede Jewish one -You're deluding Yourself.

 

[montelatici]

It's a simple matter of tribal rights. The Judaic people are native to the lands of Judea Samaria and Israel. The Invention, by an Egyptian of so called palestinians in 1967 does not supersede that fact. End of subject

All else is a spurious attempts to marginalize the tribal rights of the Judaic people

Judaic people are no more native to Palestine than Christian people. Judaism is a religion. An Inuit can practice Judaism or Christianity and would not be native to Palestine. Ancestors of the Palestinians have been native to Palestine since it was called Canaan. That their ancestors adopted different religions through the ages doesn't change who their ancestors were.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Your right to swing your fist stops at the end of my nose.

Says an antisemite so extreme that it justifies the murder of innocent Jews