What is your background/interest in the Middle East?

[Lipush]

How many sides can there be for destroying somebody else's stuff?

In your case there can only be one side, with no variations.You never listen to reason, believe an explanation or put any blame on Palis. Everything is already cut and dried before anything is presented.

Palestine is occupied by Israel.

That is both sides.

That is one side, in the better case

You don't occupy something that belongs to you. you RECLAIM it.

 

[Jos]

יש רק אלוהים אחד ומוחמד הוא שליחו

 

[Lipush]

יש רק אלוהים אחד ומוחמד הוא שליחו

אני שונאת איסלמו-פאשיסטים קיצונים

 

[Muhammed]

Roadby suggested the other day that people post their qualifications or background on this topic, and I think it's a great idea.

It's not a contest, but I'm curious to know who might have lived in Qatar, who might have a degree in Arabic, or who might have spent every summer at Yeshiva camp!

So think of countries you have been to, any relevant degrees or publications, languages spoken....anything which really attaches you to the Israel/Palestine conflict and the ME region.

I don't mind going first or last...but I'll hold off in case someone really wants to go first!

All off-topic spamming, abuse and tantrums will be ignored.

I'm a very popular guy in the Mid East.

 

[Jos]

Welcome back, the last time you posted was 10-13-2011 was that before or after Marc39 got his pink slip?

 

[Roudy]

Roadby suggested the other day that people post their qualifications or background on this topic, and I think it's a great idea.

It's not a contest, but I'm curious to know who might have lived in Qatar, who might have a degree in Arabic, or who might have spent every summer at Yeshiva camp!

So think of countries you have been to, any relevant degrees or publications, languages spoken....anything which really attaches you to the Israel/Palestine conflict and the ME region.

I don't mind going first or last...but I'll hold off in case someone really wants to go first!

All off-topic spamming, abuse and tantrums will be ignored.

I'm a very popular guy in the Mid East.

Yahooooooo!

 

[Roudy]

Of course it has - on literally hundreds - if not thousands - of occasions!!

Honestly - how can you not know this stuff, and still be too lazy to check?

You can find information on this in dozens of authoritive books, and on hundreds of websites. There is a very fine line between making mistakes because you have not seen the facts, and being deliberately ignorant. I did suggest a book by an Israeli author earlier which provides immense detail - presumably you chose not to read it.

Here is a piece of video - at about 1 minute in, you can see troops destroying crops by hand.

Israeli Police Invade, Destroy vegetable crops and Cut off water supply - YouTube

That didn't look like collective punishment to me. THe video is a piece of propoganda and awful journalism. It could be that the specific lot in question was occupied illegally, as in without a permit, or it could be that a court found the owner of said lot to be guilty of certain violations and or crimes. The other lots remained untouched if you noticed. You are not a very good liar.

...question was occupied illegally, as in without a permit,...

Why should Palestinians be required to get permits from foreigners to work their own land?

For now, the entity that runs that area is Israel. And you have to get permits and be legal to do anything, idiot. That is no different than a police officer showing up with foreclosure papers or seizure of a person's assets in case of criminal activity. Or maybe the guy was just squatting on that land and it belonged to another Palestinian? Did that thought occur to you, moron? The person on that lot was obviously in a lot of trouble, that's why the Israelis didn't touch the other lots or land owners.

 

[Roudy]

Roudy -

Here is another story about Christian Nuns who are being cut off from their crops and livelihood.

Again, this is collective punishment, and is directed against innocent people.

BBC News - Bethlehem nuns in West Bank barrier battle

Maybe if the Palestinian animals stopped sending child suicide bombers, there wouldn't be a need for a wall? The way I see the wall has done an amazing job of preventing these animals from sending suicide bombers. Kudos to the Israelis. Meanwhile, thousands of Christians are being persecuted, murdered, and tortured by Palestinian Muslims. There is mass migration of Christians out of the territories because the Islamists in power aka Hamas have doubled their efforts to ethnically cleanse Gaza and West Bank. You won't post those articles because you are a deceptive propagandist. Not that you're fooling anyone, mind you.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Roudy -

Here is another story about Christian Nuns who are being cut off from their crops and livelihood.

Again, this is collective punishment, and is directed against innocent people.

BBC News - Bethlehem nuns in West Bank barrier battle

Maybe if the Palestinian animals stopped sending child suicide bombers, there wouldn't be a need for a wall? The way I see the wall has done an amazing job of preventing these animals from sending suicide bombers. Kudos to the Israelis. Meanwhile, thousands of Christians are being persecuted, murdered, and tortured by Palestinian Muslims. There is mass migration of Christians out of the territories because the Islamists in power aka Hamas have doubled their efforts to ethnically cleanse Gaza and West Bank. You won't post those articles because you are a deceptive propagandist. Not that you're fooling anyone, mind you.

The Canadian police officers never give me any problems/

 

[Saigon]

Roudy -

Here is another story about Christian Nuns who are being cut off from their crops and livelihood.

Again, this is collective punishment, and is directed against innocent people.

BBC News - Bethlehem nuns in West Bank barrier battle

Maybe if the Palestinian animals stopped sending child suicide bombers, there wouldn't be a need for a wall? The way I see the wall has done an amazing job of preventing these animals from sending suicide bombers. Kudos to the Israelis. Meanwhile, thousands of Christians are being persecuted, murdered, and tortured by Palestinian Muslims. There is mass migration of Christians out of the territories because the Islamists in power aka Hamas have doubled their efforts to ethnically cleanse Gaza and West Bank. You won't post those articles because you are a deceptive propagandist. Not that you're fooling anyone, mind you.

Do you accept that the wall is, in itself, collective punishment?

Do you accept that the bulldozing of crops and homes of innocent people constitutes colletive punishment?

 

[Saigon]

For now, the entity that runs that area is Israel. And you have to get permits and be legal to do anything, idiot. That is no different than a police officer showing up with foreclosure papers or seizure of a person's assets in case of criminal activity. Or maybe the guy was just squatting on that land and it belonged to another Palestinian? Did that thought occur to you, moron? The person on that lot was obviously in a lot of trouble, that's why the Israelis didn't touch the other lots or land owners.

And yet one of the links poster earlier details collective punishment in Gaza - how is that run by Israel?

Are you 100% sure that the entity which runs the West Bank is Israel and not the Palestinian Authority?

 

[Roudy]

Roudy -

Here is another story about Christian Nuns who are being cut off from their crops and livelihood.

Again, this is collective punishment, and is directed against innocent people.

BBC News - Bethlehem nuns in West Bank barrier battle

Maybe if the Palestinian animals stopped sending child suicide bombers, there wouldn't be a need for a wall? The way I see the wall has done an amazing job of preventing these animals from sending suicide bombers. Kudos to the Israelis. Meanwhile, thousands of Christians are being persecuted, murdered, and tortured by Palestinian Muslims. There is mass migration of Christians out of the territories because the Islamists in power aka Hamas have doubled their efforts to ethnically cleanse Gaza and West Bank. You won't post those articles because you are a deceptive propagandist. Not that you're fooling anyone, mind you.

Do you accept that the wall is, in itself, collective punishment?

Do you accept that the bulldozing of crops and homes of innocent people constitutes colletive punishment?

I don't accept the wall is collective punishment at all. You have no idea what you are talking about. Israel is an independent country and as such is protecting itself and it's citizens from those that intend to enter illegally or bring harm to it. There are many countries that have erected such a barrier when necessary. The fact that you keep pointing (whining) about Israel only speaks volumns about your intentions and your level of ignorance.

Separation barrier - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
A separation barrier is a wall or fence constructed to limit the movement of people across a certain line or border, or to separate two populations. These structures vary in placement with regard to international borders and topography. The most famous example of a separation barrier is probably the Great Wall of China, a series of barriers separating the Empire of China from nomadic powers to the north; the most prominent recent example was the Berlin Wall that separated the enclave of West Berlin from the rest of East Germany during most of the Cold War era.





Contents
[hide] 1 Current barriers 1.1 Afghanistan
1.2 Botswana
1.3 Brunei
1.4 China
1.5 Cyprus
1.6 Egypt
1.7 Greece
1.8 India
1.9 Iran
1.10 Iraq
1.11 Israel
1.12 Korea
1.13 Morocco
1.14 Northern Ireland
1.15 Pakistan
1.16 Russia
1.17 Saudi Arabia
1.18 South Africa
1.19 Spain
1.20 Thailand
1.21 United Arab Emirates
1.22 United Nations
1.23 United States
1.24 Uzbekistan

2 Separation barriers in history
3 See also
4 External links
5 References


[edit] Current barriers

Note: The table can be sorted alphabetically or chronologically using the icon.



Name

Country

Built

Length (km)

Type




Baghdad Wall

Adhamiya, Iraq

Under construction

5

Civil pacification



Belfast Peace Lines

United Kingdom (Northern Ireland)

1969–present

0.5 (average)

Civil pacification



Botswana/Zimbabwe

Botswana and Zimbabwe

2003

500

Anti-illegal immigration



Brunei/Limbang

Brunei and Limbang

2005

20

Anti-illegal immigration



Ceuta border fence

Spain

2001

8

Anti-illegal immigration



China/Hong Kong

China

1960s -early

32

Internal barrier



China/Macau

China

1870

0.34

Internal barrier



China/North Korea

China and North Korea

Under construction

1,416

Anti-illegal immigration



Egypt-Gaza barrier

Egypt

1979, subterranean barrier under construction

3.1

Anti-terrorism and anti-illegal immigration



Malaysia-Thailand border

Thailand and Malaysia

Proposed

650

Anti-terrorism



Melilla border fence

Spain

1998

11

Anti-illegal immigration



Indo-Bangladeshi barrier

India

Under construction

3,268

Anti-illegal immigration



Indo-Burma barrier

India

Under construction

1,624

Anti-drug smuggling and anti-terrorism



Indian Kashmir barrier

India

2004

550

Anti-terrorism (disputed territory)



Iran-Pakistan barrier

Iran and Pakistan

Under construction

700

Anti-drug smuggling



Israeli West Bank barrier

Israel - West Bank

Under construction

703

Conflict Zone (disputed territories)



Kazakh-Uzbekistan barrier

Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan

2006

45

Anti-drug smuggling



Korean Wall

North Korea and South Korea

1953

248

Conflict zone



Kruger National Park

South Africa and Mozambique

1975

120

Anti-illegal immigration



Kuwait-Iraq barrier

Kuwait and Iraq

1991

193

Conflict zone



Pakistan-Afghanistan barrier

Pakistan

Proposed

2,400

Anti-terrorism



Russia/Chechnya

Chechnya (Russia)

Proposed

700

Anti-terrorism (disputed territory)



Saudi-Yemen barrier

Saudi Arabia and Yemen

2004

75

Anti-illegal immigration



Sharm el-Sheikh

Egypt

2005

20

Anti-terrorism



Turkmen-Uzbekistan barrier

Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan

2001

1,700

Anti-illegal immigration



United Arab Emirates-Oman barrier

United Arab Emirates and Oman

Under construction

410

Anti-illegal immigration



United Nations Buffer Zone in Cyprus

Cyprus and Northern Cyprus

1974

300

Conflict zone



United States–Mexico barrier

United States

Under construction

3,360

Anti-illegal immigration and drug smuggling



Uzbek-Afghanistan barrier

Uzbekistan and Afghanistan

2001

209

Anti-illegal immigration



Uzbek-Kyrgyzstan barrier

Uzbekistan and Kyrgyzstan

1999

870

Conflict zone



Western Sahara, Berm of

Morocco

1987

2,700

Conflict zone (disputed territory)



[1]

 

[Saigon]

Rudy

In how many of those cases have the walls NOT followed borders recognised by international law?

 

[Roudy]

For now, the entity that runs that area is Israel. And you have to get permits and be legal to do anything, idiot. That is no different than a police officer showing up with foreclosure papers or seizure of a person's assets in case of criminal activity. Or maybe the guy was just squatting on that land and it belonged to another Palestinian? Did that thought occur to you, moron? The person on that lot was obviously in a lot of trouble, that's why the Israelis didn't touch the other lots or land owners.

And yet one of the links poster earlier details collective punishment in Gaza - how is that run by Israel?

Are you 100% sure that the entity which runs the West Bank is Israel and not the Palestinian Authority?

Why don't you ask Tiny-Brain. He claims that the govt in West Bank is illegitimate because Hamas won the election, and insists that Hamas should be able to turn the West Bank into a second Gaza-like cesspool of Islamic terrorism, barbarism and hate.

 

[Roudy]

Rudy

In how many of those cases have the walls NOT followed borders recognised by international law?

Not recognized? Israel is recognized as a country by the international community, and therefore as such, it can do as it pleases to protect itself, and not have to go to any authority to "get permission" to do anything. And besides, who cares what "other" countries think, really? After all we have many "countries" including the Mexicans that think the wall between the US and Mexico is "collective punishment" and "dangerous" and "oppressive" blah blah blah. There are even people right here in the US (bleeding heart liberals) that want the wall removed. You are even stupider and less educated than I thought.

 

[Roudy]

יש רק אלוהים אחד ומוחמד הוא שליחו

محمد بود يك سگ، درست مثل شما

 

[Roudy]

יש רק אלוהים אחד ומוחמד הוא שליחו

خودم نشاشیدم بر مزار محمد

شما يك مسلمان سگ، درست مثل محمد

 

[Artevelde]

Roudy -

Here is another story about Christian Nuns who are being cut off from their crops and livelihood.

Again, this is collective punishment, and is directed against innocent people.

BBC News - Bethlehem nuns in West Bank barrier battle

Maybe if the Palestinian animals stopped sending child suicide bombers, there wouldn't be a need for a wall? The way I see the wall has done an amazing job of preventing these animals from sending suicide bombers. Kudos to the Israelis. Meanwhile, thousands of Christians are being persecuted, murdered, and tortured by Palestinian Muslims. There is mass migration of Christians out of the territories because the Islamists in power aka Hamas have doubled their efforts to ethnically cleanse Gaza and West Bank. You won't post those articles because you are a deceptive propagandist. Not that you're fooling anyone, mind you.

Do you accept that the wall is, in itself, collective punishment?

Do you accept that the bulldozing of crops and homes of innocent people constitutes colletive punishment?

Actually no, the wall is not collective punishment and it has proven a very effective and thus justified measure.

The buldozing of crops and houses can indeed be collective punishment and seems to me to be ineffective and not justified, except where it is for security reasons or because the structures are illegal.

 

[Artevelde]

For now, the entity that runs that area is Israel. And you have to get permits and be legal to do anything, idiot. That is no different than a police officer showing up with foreclosure papers or seizure of a person's assets in case of criminal activity. Or maybe the guy was just squatting on that land and it belonged to another Palestinian? Did that thought occur to you, moron? The person on that lot was obviously in a lot of trouble, that's why the Israelis didn't touch the other lots or land owners.

And yet one of the links poster earlier details collective punishment in Gaza - how is that run by Israel?

Are you 100% sure that the entity which runs the West Bank is Israel and not the Palestinian Authority?

The entity which runs most of the West Bank is indeed the PA. But this is not a sovereign state and Israël retains final security responsibility.

 

[Artevelde]

Rudy

In how many of those cases have the walls NOT followed borders recognised by international law?

It's true the Israeli wall does not follow the 1948 cease-fire line. The actual final legal border is something which would have to be determined in a final peace settlement and is of course intimately linked with a whole series of other issues on which a settlement must be found (Jerusalem, Israeli setllements on the West Bank, water rights, security arrangements, etc.).
In the current state of things the West Bank is a piece of territory which under international law belongs to no state and therefore doesn't have internationally recognized borders. It is however under effective occupation of an internationally recognized state, i.e. Israel.