What is the real threat of Fukushima?

[Moonglow]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ln8-Y-fIbqM

Mothra always comes second....

 

[Gracie]

From the link supplied by againsheila:

The ongoing crisis at the Fukushima nuclear power plant has prompted concerns that the purchase is connected to the threat posed by radioactive debris washing up on the shores of the west coast or the potential for another natural disaster occurring in Japan which could impact the U.S.

“Governments usually respond to disasters very similarly; first move is to avoid panic,” writes The West Wire. “The Japanese didnt want to panic the world, or tarnish their honor and now, as a consequence of their reluctance, Japanese citizens and international aid personal find themselves in a horrible state of being.”

“Panic is usually avoided by keeping their citizens as blind to the truth as possible, until confrontation with the truth becomes inevitable. The crucial question at this juncture; would our government be reluctant about warning us of potential disaster, in an attempt to avoid panic? 14 million doses of Potassium Iodide say that might just be the case.”

Last month it was revealed that 71 U.S. sailors who helped during the initial Fukushima relief efforts are suing the Tokyo Electric Power Co. (TEPCO) after they returned with thyroid cancer, Leukemia, and brain tumors as a result of being exposed to radiation at 300 times the safe level.

TEPCO has repeatedly been caught lying in their efforts to downplay the scale of the disaster. In September it was confirmed that radiation readings around the power plant were 18 times higher than previously reported by TEPCO. After a tank leaked 300 tonnes of toxic water in August, groundwater radiation readings at the plant soared to 400,000 becquerels per litre, the highest reading since the nuclear accident occurred in March 2011.

Top scientists have warned that if another major earthquake hits Fukushima, which is almost inevitable, it would mean “bye bye Japan” and the complete evacuation of the west coast of North America.

Now that radioactive debris is hitting the West Coast of North America, numerous different animals and sea life are suffering from mysterious diseases, including 20 bald eagles that have died in Utah over the last few weeks alone.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

From the link supplied by againsheila:

The ongoing crisis at the Fukushima nuclear power plant has prompted concerns that the purchase is connected to the threat posed by radioactive debris washing up on the shores of the west coast or the potential for another natural disaster occurring in Japan which could impact the U.S.

“Governments usually respond to disasters very similarly; first move is to avoid panic,” writes The West Wire. “The Japanese didnt want to panic the world, or tarnish their honor and now, as a consequence of their reluctance, Japanese citizens and international aid personal find themselves in a horrible state of being.”

“Panic is usually avoided by keeping their citizens as blind to the truth as possible, until confrontation with the truth becomes inevitable. The crucial question at this juncture; would our government be reluctant about warning us of potential disaster, in an attempt to avoid panic? 14 million doses of Potassium Iodide say that might just be the case.”

Last month it was revealed that 71 U.S. sailors who helped during the initial Fukushima relief efforts are suing the Tokyo Electric Power Co. (TEPCO) after they returned with thyroid cancer, Leukemia, and brain tumors as a result of being exposed to radiation at 300 times the safe level.

TEPCO has repeatedly been caught lying in their efforts to downplay the scale of the disaster. In September it was confirmed that radiation readings around the power plant were 18 times higher than previously reported by TEPCO. After a tank leaked 300 tonnes of toxic water in August, groundwater radiation readings at the plant soared to 400,000 becquerels per litre, the highest reading since the nuclear accident occurred in March 2011.

Top scientists have warned that if another major earthquake hits Fukushima, which is almost inevitable, it would mean “bye bye Japan” and the complete evacuation of the west coast of North America.

Now that radioactive debris is hitting the West Coast of North America, numerous different animals and sea life are suffering from mysterious diseases, including 20 bald eagles that have died in Utah over the last few weeks alone.

Last month it was revealed that 71 U.S. sailors who helped during the initial Fukushima relief efforts are suing the Tokyo Electric Power Co. (TEPCO) after they returned with thyroid cancer, Leukemia, and brain tumors as a result of being exposed to radiation at 300 times the safe level.

How long was their deployment? They came back with those? I call BS.

 

[Gracie]

Ok. That is your opinion.

 

[skookerasbil]

LMAO......Godzilla could be approaching the Japanese mainland and Mamooth's response would be, "meh".

To Mamooth, the 71 soldiers just got some tainted tuna someplace!!!!! Meanwhile however, this temperature rise of .2 degree's and the world should be out in their backyard today building their own personal emergency arks.

 

[flacaltenn]

Hawaii better be ready for contaminated Ahi Ahi.

Very interesting "photo" Gracie.. What do you think it means? How did we get a satellite image of "radioactive seawater" from space? Who is the US Dept of State Geographer?

Aren't you curious? Because it SEEMS like that image tells no tales.. Help me out here..
Find some answers to the origin of that "photo" -- so that folks with a mind left can interpret it.

 

[mamooth]

LMAO......Godzilla could be approaching the Japanese mainland and Mamooth's response would be, "meh".

As usual, you being totally ignorant doesn't make me a liar. It just makes you a moron.

But good job there with murdering millions of people by pushing for coal use instead of nuclear. Proud of that body count? I'm sure you'll keep racking it up ever higher. In China alone, the tally is around 750,000 deaths per year, every year. Anti-nuke hysterics seem to support killing on a scale that rivals Mao and Stalin.

To Mamooth, the 71 soldiers just got some tainted tuna someplace!!!!!

No, they got an ambulance chaser/anti-nuke activist lawyer to make crap up. You now regard liability lawsuit lawyers as a trusted source? Just how gullible are you? And doesn't that make you a flaming liberal, since liability lawyers are supposedly liberals?

Run through thousands of people, and you'll get a few who have bad health problems for random reasons. You'll have some with psychosomatic illnesses, literally worrying themselves sick over radiation (just read this thread for examples of people who desperately want to be terrified). And you'll have some outright faking just to hop on the gravy train. There's your 71.

Meanwhile, back in the real world, radiation doesn't work that way. Period. For that bullshit lawsuit to make any sense, everything the world knows about how radiation affects health would have to be completely wrong. But the world isn't wrong. It's just a lying shyster lawyer, going for publicity and cash.

 

[mamooth]

Sea monitoring off Japan. By the Japanese government, which is crazy suspicious of all things nuclear, so people can't toss out the "IT'S ALL A TEPCO COVERUP!" claim.

http://radioactivity.nsr.go.jp/en/contents/8000/7767/24/Sea_Area_Monitoring(20131224).pdf

Most of the measurements are now below detectability thresholds, after steadily declining from higher levels. Handwaving and meaningless anecdotes are a poor substitute for the actual data, which now shows no significant radioactive contamination in the Pacific.

 

[Againsheila]

Sea monitoring off Japan. By the Japanese government, which is crazy suspicious of all things nuclear, so people can't toss out the "IT'S ALL A TEPCO COVERUP!" claim.

http://radioactivity.nsr.go.jp/en/contents/8000/7767/24/Sea_Area_Monitoring(20131224).pdf

Most of the measurements are now below detectability thresholds, after steadily declining from higher levels. Handwaving and meaningless anecdotes are a poor substitute for the actual data, which now shows no significant radioactive contamination in the Pacific.

You're using Japan as your source? The country responsible for this debacle? Every blue fin tuna pulled up off the coast of California has unsafe levels of cesium. Polar Bears and Walrus's are showing up with loss of fur and lesions never before seen. Some species of starfish have gone extinct. The Department of Health and Human Services has ordered 14 million doses of potassium iodide to be available by no later then the first of February, it is easy to see that the same federal government responsible for silently raising the allowable limits of radiation in the food supply and turning off key radiation counters positioned in the west coast may now silently be preparing for a future Fukushima meltdown. But hey, Japan says they didn't do any damage so, we're good.

 

[flacaltenn]

Hawaii better be ready for contaminated Ahi Ahi.

I'll tell you what you're looking at in that photo now..
It's been repurposed as a propanganda weapon.. You see that label at the bottom of your
photo ??? --- It's fraudulent.. DID NOT COME from the US Dept of State who may or may not have a "geographer".. It came from a Japanese company running computer simulations of where MINUTE biomass like fish eggs, larvae, and plankton COULD HAVE drifted in the weeks after the accident..

NO measurement of nuclear radiation.. The authors didn't even MODEL the dosage that the biomass might have inherited..

ASR ltd - Fukushima Radioactive Seawater Plume dispersal simulation

We use a Lagrangian particles dispersal method to track where free floating material (fish larvae, algae, phytoplankton, zooplankton...) present in the sea water near the damaged Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power station plant could have gone since the earthquake on March 11th. THIS IS NOT A REPRESENTATION OF THE RADIOACTIVE PLUME CONCENTRATION. Since we do not know exactly how much contaminated water and at what concentration was released into the ocean, it is impossible to estimate the extent and dilution of the plume. However, field monitoring by TEPCO showed concentration of radioactive Iodine and Cesium higher than the legal limit during the next two months following the event (with a peak at more than 100 Bq/cm3 early April 2011 for I-131 as shown by the following picture).

Your purloined photo is part of the animation at the bottom of the page.. The photo of I-131 referred to above is a graph of actual TEPCO data that also appears on the page..

We can arm wrestle about who trusts the government the least. Bet I would win.. But it's not wise to rely on proven forgeries.. That gets good threads like this one tossed into the Conspiracy Forum...

 

[mamooth]

You're using Japan as your source? The country responsible for this debacle?

I give you hard data, and you handwave it away. You're working hard to ignore all facts that contradict your sacred beliefs.

Every blue fin tuna pulled up off the coast of California has unsafe levels of cesium.

Where do you get such nonsense? Hard sources, please, not thirdhand rumors from anti-nuke hysteric sources.

The first batch of tuna did have caesium levels elevated by 30%, but 30% more of nuthin' is still nuthin', way below unsafe levels. And by now, that slightly elevated caesium is gone from the tuna, cycled through their bodies.

Polar Bears and Walrus's are showing up with loss of fur and lesions never before seen.

Meaningless anecdote, and also not true. No walrus ever had a lesion before? Can you point us to a walrus expert who will verify that?

Some species of starfish have gone extinct.

Please name those starfish species that have gone extinct, using hard data sources.

There is a new starfish wasting disease. Which has nothing to do with radiation. Radiation is measurable. If we can't measure it, it isn't there. You need to explain how radiation that nobody can measure is causing problems. Best I can tell, it's sort of a religious belief with some people that such a thing is possible, that magical radiation which no one can detect is causing every imaginable problem.

The Department of Health and Human Services has ordered 14 million doses of potassium iodide to be available by no later then the first of February, it is easy to see that the same federal government responsible for silently raising the allowable limits of radiation in the food supply and turning off key radiation counters positioned in the west coast may now silently be preparing for a future Fukushima meltdown. But hey, Japan says they didn't do any damage so, we're good.

And to end it, it descends into a fine paranoid conspiracy theory.

 

[Synthaholic]

Two things:

A guest/expert on Real Time with Bill Maher, when Bill told him he does his New Years Eve show every year in Hawaii, and asked if it was still safe to swim in the ocean: "You should be OK this year, but I wouldn't swim in it in 2015".

Harry Shearer has a weekly radio show called 'Le Show', and each week he has a segment called 'Safe, Clean, Too Cheap To Meter" in which he reads news about Fukashima that I never hear about anywhere else. It's really good stuff:

Sideshow Network :: Le Show with Harry Shearer

Here's an individual show, where you can jump right to it at 23:48:

Sideshow Network :: Le Show with Harry Shearer


And this:

Radioactive Water From Fukushima Is Systematically Poisoning The Entire Pacific Ocean | TheSleuthJournal

 

[flacaltenn]

Two things:

A guest/expert on Real Time with Bill Maher, when Bill told him he does his New Years Eve show every year in Hawaii, and asked if it was still safe to swim in the ocean: "You should be OK this year, but I wouldn't swim in it in 2015".

Harry Shearer has a weekly radio show called 'Le Show', and each week he has a segment called 'Safe, Clean, Too Cheap To Meter" in which he reads news about Fukashima that I never hear about anywhere else. It's really good stuff:

Sideshow Network :: Le Show with Harry Shearer

Here's an individual show, where you can jump right to it at 23:48:

Sideshow Network :: Le Show with Harry Shearer


And this:

Radioactive Water From Fukushima Is Systematically Poisoning The Entire Pacific Ocean | TheSleuthJournal

Now we're in the Conspiracy Forum for sure.. Bill Mahrer making surf safety reports and "Le Show"..

Did Bill have a dosimeter with him??

 

[Synthaholic]

Two things:

A guest/expert on Real Time with Bill Maher, when Bill told him he does his New Years Eve show every year in Hawaii, and asked if it was still safe to swim in the ocean: "You should be OK this year, but I wouldn't swim in it in 2015".

Harry Shearer has a weekly radio show called 'Le Show', and each week he has a segment called 'Safe, Clean, Too Cheap To Meter" in which he reads news about Fukashima that I never hear about anywhere else. It's really good stuff:

Sideshow Network :: Le Show with Harry Shearer

Here's an individual show, where you can jump right to it at 23:48:

Sideshow Network :: Le Show with Harry Shearer


And this:

Radioactive Water From Fukushima Is Systematically Poisoning The Entire Pacific Ocean | TheSleuthJournal

Now we're in the Conspiracy Forum for sure.. Bill Mahrer making surf safety reports and "Le Show"..

Did Bill have a dosimeter with him??

Fuck off.

 

[flacaltenn]

You're using Japan as your source? The country responsible for this debacle?

I give you hard data, and you handwave it away. You're working hard to ignore all facts that contradict your sacred beliefs.

Every blue fin tuna pulled up off the coast of California has unsafe levels of cesium.

Where do you get such nonsense? Hard sources, please, not thirdhand rumors from anti-nuke hysteric sources.

The first batch of tuna did have caesium levels elevated by 30%, but 30% more of nuthin' is still nuthin', way below unsafe levels. And by now, that slightly elevated caesium is gone from the tuna, cycled through their bodies.



Meaningless anecdote, and also not true. No walrus ever had a lesion before? Can you point us to a walrus expert who will verify that?

Some species of starfish have gone extinct.

Please name those starfish species that have gone extinct, using hard data sources.

There is a new starfish wasting disease. Which has nothing to do with radiation. Radiation is measurable. If we can't measure it, it isn't there. You need to explain how radiation that nobody can measure is causing problems. Best I can tell, it's sort of a religious belief with some people that such a thing is possible, that magical radiation which no one can detect is causing every imaginable problem.

The Department of Health and Human Services has ordered 14 million doses of potassium iodide to be available by no later then the first of February, it is easy to see that the same federal government responsible for silently raising the allowable limits of radiation in the food supply and turning off key radiation counters positioned in the west coast may now silently be preparing for a future Fukushima meltdown. But hey, Japan says they didn't do any damage so, we're good.

And to end it, it descends into a fine paranoid conspiracy theory.

What made you a "sudden skeptic"?? Asking for PROOF !! Welcome to the world of unsettled science.. You MADE this monster --- think I'll let you deal with it for awhile..

 

[Synthaholic]

Here's a good example - go to the 14:50 mark:

Sideshow Network :: Le Show with Harry Shearer

 

[flacaltenn]

Two things:

A guest/expert on Real Time with Bill Maher, when Bill told him he does his New Years Eve show every year in Hawaii, and asked if it was still safe to swim in the ocean: "You should be OK this year, but I wouldn't swim in it in 2015".

Harry Shearer has a weekly radio show called 'Le Show', and each week he has a segment called 'Safe, Clean, Too Cheap To Meter" in which he reads news about Fukashima that I never hear about anywhere else. It's really good stuff:

Sideshow Network :: Le Show with Harry Shearer

Here's an individual show, where you can jump right to it at 23:48:

Sideshow Network :: Le Show with Harry Shearer


And this:

Radioactive Water From Fukushima Is Systematically Poisoning The Entire Pacific Ocean | TheSleuthJournal

Now we're in the Conspiracy Forum for sure.. Bill Mahrer making surf safety reports and "Le Show"..

Did Bill have a dosimeter with him??

Fuck off.

Not gonna happen.. It's in my nature to destroy phoney propaganda and abuse of science.
It's only just noon -- and I've squashed a photo of radiation spreading thru the Pac Ocean.. Who knows what fun the rest of the week will bring..

 

[flacaltenn]

Here's a good example - go to the 14:50 mark:

Sideshow Network :: Le Show with Harry Shearer

I'm a fair guy.. Gave it a listen.. What's ole harry got??

1) Containment storage facilities at Fukishima were built by "POOR" workers from some prefecture in Japan..

2) Children in the vicinity of Fukishima have some of the "highest OBESITY rates" in the nation..

3) Three other poorly understood stories that ole Harry doesn't have a prayer of understanding..

But the only QUALIFIED assessment was that radioactivity in PAC ocean waters would be "TWO ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE BELOW" the safety standards set for drinking water. Placing it FAR AND ABOVE safer than MANY Mountain area drinking supplies. ((IF anyone wanted to drink Pac Ocean waters))..

Somebody need a graphic for 2 ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE BELOW --- the safety standards and a chart of background radiation in drinking water for the Rocky Mountain region??

When you HATE and OPPOSE something. You can take little factoids like those and beat the hell out of them for the cause --- just by having a comic sidekick imitating a nuclear particle..

Look man --- have a ball.. Your turn to be marginalized and mocked. I'm happy about that..

 

[Synthaholic]

Well, I'm glad you at least listened to it.

 

[Flopper]

The number of people dead from the Fukushima meltdown is ... zero. Eventually there will be a few cancer deaths, but it won't be statistically detectable. The evacuation, much of it unnecessary, caused more deaths than the meltdown.

Contamination in the Pacific is now below detectability thresholds. Even inside the lagoon of the Fukushima breakwall, contamination is within a factor of 10 of US standards for drinking water.

The reactors are cold. The spent fuel in pool 4 is being moved to ground level without incident (about 10% done now). Contaminated water still leaks into the Pacific, but ... it's an ocean. It dilutes to insignificance. There was a finite amount of radionucleides produced, and when they're gone, they're gone. The iodine has all decayed. The caesium 134 and 137 doesn't bioaccumlate much. Eventually, all the caesium cycles through organisms and drops to the ocean floor. Strontium-90 bioaccumulates much more, but strontium didn't go airborne like caesuim or iodine, and is purely a local Fukushima problem.

So, except for the area immediately around the plant, it's over. Almost nobody in Japan needs to be kept out of their homes for health reasons. That's just done for politics now. Like politics says we have to keep ever growing amounts of water with tritium in it in storage. For decades, given that tritium can't be removed from water on a large scale, since tritium is chemically one of the H's in the H2O. The sensible response would be to pump in into the ocean where the tritium won't hurt anything as it decays, but politics prevents that. Keep it on land, where it can expose people when it leaks.

The real threat? Closing nuke plants and burning more coal and fossil fuels as baseline power. Renewables can't cover it all. Coal burning causes thousands of deaths from pollution every year, releases vast amounts of radiation in the smoke and ash, and adds to global warming.

Nuclear Power can never be as safe as wind and solar but id does have it's advantages. It's very reliable, no C02 emissions, no smoke particles, requires little fuel, and doesn't depend on whether.

Major accidents in nuclear power plants resulting in deaths are rare. Between 1969 and 2000, there were 1829 severe accidents around the world in the energy production industry resulting 81,258 deaths. By comparison nuclear energy production fatalities have been minuscule.
Risk statistics on energy

It seems clear to me that by end of this century there will be a lot more wind and solar and more nuclear power, but most of our energy production will still be fossil fuels.

It's also seems likely that we will have practical fusion powered nuclear plants by the end of this century. The small amounts of fuel used in fusion devices (about the weight of a postage stamp at any one time) means that a large-scale nuclear accident is not possible. The fuel source, deuterium is widely available and once the fuel is spent there is no major problem with disposal.
http://www.ccfe.ac.uk/introduction.aspx