What is the meaning of "militia" in the second amendment?

[Jantje_Smit]

What is the meaning of "militia" in the second amendment?

The NRA?

 

[JakeStarkey]

You attempted to mischaracterize what I was saying with some branding, I clearly corrected your errors, and now you whine that you cannot take what you dish.

Stay with the subject, leave off personal attacks, and we are fine.

 

[robertacollier]

You attempted to mischaracterize what I was saying with some branding, I clearly corrected your errors, and now you whine that you cannot take what you dish.

Stay with the subject, leave off personal attacks, and we are fine.

You might want to look up the definition of branding. Along with militia.

But that's probably my fault too that I did not understand you. Maybe you're a girl.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Robert, you misuse language then whine when caught. That is your problem. I merely point it out and correct it as necessary.

The OP is about the meaning of militia in the second amendment.

Do you have any further comments about it?

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

I think it was fairly straightforward for the founders.

• "I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials."
  — George Mason, in Debates in Virginia Convention on Ratification of the Constitution, Elliot, Vol. 3, June 16, 1788

• Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man against his own bosom. Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American...[T]he unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people."
  --Tenche Coxe, The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.

• 
  
  
  • Whereas, to preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them; nor does it follow from this, that all promiscuously must go into actual service on every occasion. The mind that aims at a select militia, must be influenced by a truly anti-republican principle; and when we see many men disposed to practice upon it, whenever they can prevail, no wonder true republicans are for carefully guarding against it."
    --Richard Henry Lee, The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.

In 1788 did we have a standing Army? Was their a National Guard? Did we have professional Soldiers and Police Officers? Were we a rural nation, for the most part?

Is every man between 18 and 45 trained under Congressional guidelines? Do the states arm, organize and discipline them (Art. I, Sec. 8, clause 16)?

None of this is really relevant to the separation of the 2nd's two clauses. The Supreme Court upheld the individual right theory over the collective in Heller and McDonald.

The administrative (as in the 1903 militia statute) does not negate the concept. You still have to look at the intent.

So you agree the Supreme Court's interpretation is to be honored?

Hmmm...

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

I think it was fairly straightforward for the founders.

• "I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials."
  — George Mason, in Debates in Virginia Convention on Ratification of the Constitution, Elliot, Vol. 3, June 16, 1788

• Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man against his own bosom. Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American...[T]he unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people."
  --Tenche Coxe, The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.

• 
  
  
  • Whereas, to preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them; nor does it follow from this, that all promiscuously must go into actual service on every occasion. The mind that aims at a select militia, must be influenced by a truly anti-republican principle; and when we see many men disposed to practice upon it, whenever they can prevail, no wonder true republicans are for carefully guarding against it."
    --Richard Henry Lee, The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.

Our Second Article of Amendment clearly states not all of the militia of the United States is necessary to the security of a free State, but, Only well regulated militia of the People of the United States.

careful when you read too much into the commas ... the people back then often rewrote things in different ways. That is why most curious and informed people look to other writings left behind

 

[robertacollier]

So you agree the Supreme Court's interpretation is to be honored?

Hmmm...

Eh, the whole thing really sucked from the beginning. The constitution was ratified and the fix was in from the start.

People put too much faith in the founders and it continues to this day with presidential politics and the Waiting for Godot mentality.. A lot of these fuckers were slaveholders. I can understand the different time, but the slave owner could have screwed the colored women and had a good party time without owning them.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

So you agree the Supreme Court's interpretation is to be honored?

Hmmm...

Eh, the whole thing really sucked from the beginning. The constitution was ratified and the fix was in from the start.

People put too much faith in the founders and it continues to this day with presidential politics and the Waiting for Godot mentality.. A lot of these fuckers were slaveholders. I can understand the different time, but the slave owner could have screwed the colored women and had a good party time without owning them.

People are flawed? Ok.

But to claim the 'whole thing sucked from the beginning' is a meaningless statement lacking context.

The slaveholding thing I understand. There is no South (in early colonial America) without it.

What about English liberties and the religious sentiments that drove the colonists?

 

[Arizona Willie]

At the time when the Constitution was written, the " militia " was the equivalent of today's National Guard.

Each state had it's own " militia " just like today each state has it's own unit of the National Guard.

Every Freeman was supposed to enroll in the " militia " and they supplied their own weapons.
Except for things like cannons. But they supplied their own handguns and rifles ( muskets actually ).

There was no intention for every citizen to walk around armed to the teeth.

But, of course, now we have a different problem.

Some people scream to " take away the guns ". Others just want to place restrictions on buying NEW guns.

But what are they going to do about the MILLIONS of guns already out there in the hands of the public? Once I saw a claim that there are so many firearms already in public distribution that each person could have 10 ... just from the guns already out there.

The knuckle dragging right wingers are so afraid that the government will come and take their penises ... er ... guns away that they have buried stockpiles of guns and ammunition all over the country.

Are they going to declare " lockdowns " town by town with every resident required to remain indoors at home while the Army comes and does door to door searches of every property including ground scanning radar to look for buried guns?

Nothing else would make a dent in the gun problem.

NOTHING

As many say, we don't have a gun problem --- we have a mental health problem.

Republicans think poor people are poor because they want to be and they think mentally ill people are that way because they want to be.

Republicans refused to pay taxes to institutionalize the violently mentally ill so they closed the
Asylums and turned the inmates loose on society.

After all they are behind the gates of their estates with their security guards ... they don't have to worry about drive by shootings etc. etc

We need a single payer health care system with FULLY PUBLIC FUNDED MENTAL HEALTH CARE.

Yes it would mean paying < SHUDDER > taxes ... but how much is the current situation costing us with mentally ill people roaming the streets and out free where they can listen to agitators like Limpballs and Handjob Hannity and get stirred up and motivated to carry out these shootings?

How much would you be willing to pay in taxes THE DAY AFTER your wife / daughter / son gets killed in another school shooting to have them back?

Quit being so damn cheap Republicans.

I think it was fairly straightforward for the founders.

• "I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials."
  — George Mason, in Debates in Virginia Convention on Ratification of the Constitution, Elliot, Vol. 3, June 16, 1788

• Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man against his own bosom. Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American...[T]he unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people."
  --Tenche Coxe, The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.

• 
  
  
  • Whereas, to preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them; nor does it follow from this, that all promiscuously must go into actual service on every occasion. The mind that aims at a select militia, must be influenced by a truly anti-republican principle; and when we see many men disposed to practice upon it, whenever they can prevail, no wonder true republicans are for carefully guarding against it."
    --Richard Henry Lee, The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.

 

[Arizona Willie]

No IT IS NOT A REPUBLICAN COUNTRY.

In fact, Republicans are in the minority when it comes to voting registration when you consider Independents and Democrats joined.

A < big > minority and getting smaller every day.

========

Your statement is an anti-republican one, and we live in a republican country. Be mindful.

 

[Arizona Willie]

Who else would like to see this message board adopt a different software?

When you reply to someone with this software your reply may get posted 10 pages later instead of threaded like most forums are.

IT SUCKS.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

At the time when the Constitution was written, the " militia " was the equivalent of today's National Guard.

Each state had it's own " militia " just like today each state has it's own unit of the National Guard.

Every Freeman was supposed to enroll in the " militia " and they supplied their own weapons.
Except for things like cannons. But they supplied their own handguns and rifles ( muskets actually ).

There was no intention for every citizen to walk around armed to the teeth.

But, of course, now we have a different problem.

Some people scream to " take away the guns ". Others just want to place restrictions on buying NEW guns.

But what are they going to do about the MILLIONS of guns already out there in the hands of the public? Once I saw a claim that there are so many firearms already in public distribution that each person could have 10 ... just from the guns already out there.

The knuckle dragging right wingers are so afraid that the government will come and take their penises ... er ... guns away that they have buried stockpiles of guns and ammunition all over the country.

Are they going to declare " lockdowns " town by town with every resident required to remain indoors at home while the Army comes and does door to door searches of every property including ground scanning radar to look for buried guns?

Nothing else would make a dent in the gun problem.

NOTHING

As many say, we don't have a gun problem --- we have a mental health problem.

Republicans think poor people are poor because they want to be and they think mentally ill people are that way because they want to be.

Republicans refused to pay taxes to institutionalize the violently mentally ill so they closed the
Asylums and turned the inmates loose on society.

After all they are behind the gates of their estates with their security guards ... they don't have to worry about drive by shootings etc. etc

We need a singly payer health care system with FULLY PUBLIC FUNDED MENTAL HEALTH CARE.

Yes it would mean paying < SHUDDER > taxes ... but how much is the current situation costing us with mentally ill people roaming the streets and out free where they can listen to agitators like Limballs and Handjob Hannity and get stirred up and motivated to carry out these shootings?

How much would you be willing to pay in taxes THE DAY AFTER your wife / daughter / son gets killed in another school shooting to have them back?

Quit being so damn cheap Republicans.

I think it was fairly straightforward for the founders.

• "I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials."
  — George Mason, in Debates in Virginia Convention on Ratification of the Constitution, Elliot, Vol. 3, June 16, 1788

• Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man against his own bosom. Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American...[T]he unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people."
  --Tenche Coxe, The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.

• 
  
  
  • Whereas, to preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them; nor does it follow from this, that all promiscuously must go into actual service on every occasion. The mind that aims at a select militia, must be influenced by a truly anti-republican principle; and when we see many men disposed to practice upon it, whenever they can prevail, no wonder true republicans are for carefully guarding against it."
    --Richard Henry Lee, The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.

Stop making so much sense!!!

 

[9thIDdoc]

Militia=group of armed civilians

 

[Arizona Willie]

If we did that then blacks would still be slaves and women wouldn't have the right to vote and neither would most white men. You had to be a white male PROPERTY owner, which meant owning land or a store.

Although many of us own homes on a piece of dirt the vast majority of American live in apartments owned by others and would not qualify to vote.
========

OP is living in 1788.

As we all should be, when it comes to the Bill of Rights.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

No IT IS NOT A REPUBLICAN COUNTRY.

In fact, Republicans are in the minority when it comes to voting registration when you consider Independents and Democrats joined.

A < big > minority and getting smaller every day.

========

Your statement is an anti-republican one, and we live in a republican country. Be mindful.

Republican with a small 'r' as in a republic

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Who else would like to see this message board adopt a different software?

When you reply to someone with this software your reply may get posted 10 pages later instead of threaded like most forums are.

IT SUCKS.

threaded sites suck

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Militia=group of armed civilians

context?

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

If we did that then blacks would still be slaves and women wouldn't have the right to vote and neither would most white men. You had to be a white male PROPERTY owner, which meant owning land or a store.

Although many of us own homes on a piece of dirt the vast majority of American live in apartments owned by others and would not qualify to vote.
========

OP is living in 1788.

As we all should be, when it comes to the Bill of Rights.

Times were different then.

People came to the Americas to own land.

 

[robertacollier]

But to claim the 'whole thing sucked from the beginning' is a meaningless statement lacking context.

Well, I guess I could go on, but I have things to do on Saturday.

What about English liberties and the religious sentiments that drove the colonists?

I don't know. What about it? England is full of queers and it probably was back then too. The rest of them seem asexual. Do you also ever see a really good looking British woman or one with really big hooters? Maybe in James Bond or something, but I mostly don't see it. Maybe those people left that crap hole because of that. Maybe they heard about Indian women.

England is also cloudy and cold. Those English dope's faces are as pasty white as my ass. Somebody probably told them it was warmer in America. And then they mixed the Spanish women with the Injun...

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

But to claim the 'whole thing sucked from the beginning' is a meaningless statement lacking context.

Well, I guess I could go on, but I have things to do on Saturday.

What about English liberties and the religious sentiments that drove the colonists?

I don't know. What about it? England is full of queers and it probably was back then too. The rest of them seem asexual. Do you also ever see a really good looking British woman or one with really big hooters? Maybe in James Bond or something, but I mostly don't see it. Maybe those people left that crap hole because of that. Maybe they heard about Indian women.

England is also cloudy and cold. Those English dope's faces are as pasty white as my ass. Somebody probably told them it was warmer in America. And then they mixed the Spanish women with the Injun...

Oh, you're one of those nuts. I forgot.

never mind