What is the legality of Trump's National Guard actions?

[toobfreak]

It is illegal to ignore the Treaty of Guadelupe Hidalgo.

Well, there ya go. Sue the White House.

 

[Failzero]

Wrong.
There are many cases I know of where the mix up has happened, because of ICE arrogance and failure to follow due process procedures.

If your previously deported a few times they can pick you out of a crowd ( easily

 

[Rigby5]

They have Facial Recognition , Mug Shots , Fingerprints , Tatts , previous statements , Digital data , ID …

Facial recognition does not really work at all, and is especially bad with minorities.
Mug shots are exactly what one should not use, since to Anglos, all Hispanics look alike.
Finger prints should works, but obviously have not.
Most undocumented do not have tatts.
There can be no "previous statements" for a new person being incorrectly identified.
There is no valid "digital data" they use.
ID can't be trusted since people can have the same name.

And obviously the point is the LAW says a judge has to decide.
So ICE is violating the law.

 

[Failzero]

Facial recognition does not really work at all, and is especially bad with minorities.
Mug shots are exactly what one should not use, since to Anglos, all Hispanics look alike.
Finger prints should works, but obviously have not.
Most undocumented do not have tatts.
There can be no "previous statements" for a new person being incorrectly identified.
There is no valid "digital data" they use.
ID can't be trusted since people can have the same name.

And obviously the point is the LAW says a judge has to decide.
So ICE is violating the law.

Obviously it all has worked as not one 4th Generation Long Beach Resident American Citizen has claimed to be a “ Born In East LA “ mistake arrestee

 

[M14 Shooter]

Here are the thoughts of a former Federal prosecutor on the legal issues with Trump's actions in Los Angeles.

10 USC 12406

12406. National Guard in Federal service: call​

Whenever-
(1 the United States, or any of the Commonwealths or possessions, is invaded or is in danger of invasion by a foreign nation;
(2) there is a rebellion or danger of a rebellion against the authority of the Government of the United States; or
(3) the President is unable with the regular forces to execute the laws of the United States;

The President may call into Federal service members and units of the National Guard of any State in such numbers as he considers necessary to repel the invasion, suppress the rebellion, or execute those laws.

10 USC 253

253 - Interference with State and Federal law​

The President, by using the militia or the armed forces, or both, or by any other means, shall take such measures as he considers necessary to suppress, in a State, any insurrection, domestic violence, unlawful combination, or conspiracy, if it—
(1)
so hinders the execution of the laws of that State, and of the United States within the State, that any part or class of its people is deprived of a right, privilege, immunity, or protection named in the Constitution and secured by law, and the constituted authorities of that State are unable, fail, or refuse to protect that right, privilege, or immunity, or to give that protection; or
(2)
opposes or obstructs the execution of the laws of the United States or impedes the course of justice under those laws.

/ thread

 

[struth]

Correct.
This likely can all be sorted out and fixed over time, as long as trump does not throw it all away by doing something like declaring martial law.
And what I am saying is that essentially that is what Trump is doing.
He is throwing it all away by ignoring the courts and sending in troops.
That is not legal and could easily ignite the powder keg.

Again, the point is that government only gets its authority from the protection of the rights of others.
Raiding Home Depot parking lots protects the rights of no one.
And in fact I saw ICE deliberately shooting journalists with rubber bullets.
That pretty much is an armed rebellion by Trump.

well, what is he suppose to do when you all declared war against the United States?

How's he ignoring the Courts? You all haven't got any of the immigration laws overturned. Until you do, he has a obligation to enforce the immgration laws on the books, and just because you don't like them, doesn't give you the right to engage in war, and if you do, he has a legal right and responsiblity to defend the union, just like Lincoln did when you all did this when the GOP took away your ability to exploit humans for cheap labor

 

[M14 Shooter]

There isn't any.

Whoever told you this lied to you - and you let them.

 

[Failzero]

10 USC 12406

12406. National Guard in Federal service: call​

Whenever-
(1 the United States, or any of the Commonwealths or possessions, is invaded or is in danger of invasion by a foreign nation;
(2) there is a rebellion or danger of a rebellion against the authority of the Government of the United States; or
(3) the President is unable with the regular forces to execute the laws of the United States;

The President may call into Federal service members and units of the National Guard of any State in such numbers as he considers necessary to repel the invasion, suppress the rebellion, or execute those laws.

/ thread

Mag drop

 

[Rigby5]

Well, there ya go. Sue the White House.

As not one being harmed, I have no standing to sue anyone.
The point however is that it is a horrific precedent to abuse individual rights to that degree.
It is basically the ultimate dictatorship to ignore the Bill of Rights and due process.

 

[struth]

Legal authority comes from the defense of inherent individual rights, not legislation.
There are many sources to choose from.
For example, it is illegal to deprive the undocumented of life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness.
If you read the Treaty of Guadelupe Hidalgo, it also ensures natives can't be abused in the states we purchased. We cannot interfere with their land ownership, employment, transportation, commerce, etc., and they do not have to become US citizens if they do not want to.
Remember, most of CA actually is Spanish land grants that were supposed to be enforced by treaty, and we illegally violated.

what inherent individual right gives someone the right to come into another country without permission? Why is it illegal to deny illegals of life, liberty or the pursuit of happiness? The Govt can do that to it's own citizens...we literally put people in person and execute them.

Agreed, and the natives living there are the time aren't the ones at issue at this point.

Then isn't that an issue Spain should have with us? Not some illegal from Venezulua

 

[EvilCat Breath]

Do you deny that its perfectly legal to look for work at Home Depot parking lots, and at least 2 of the illegal raids were on Home Depot parking lots, without warrants?

No warrant is needed for a crime in progress.

 

[Rigby5]

If your previously deported a few times they can pick you out of a crowd ( easily

Wrong.
Not only do ICE employees tend to be racist and thing all natives look alike, but there are thousands of them and impossible for them to be able to identify anyone.

 

[Foxfyre]

I don't like Trump but he has the authority to call up the National Guard for shit like this.

I don't believe he has the authority to deploy Marines for riot control. . Active duty military can not be used to enforce domestic policy.

Posse Comitatus Act - Wikipedia

Active duty military, however, CAN be used to defend the country against unlawful invasion.

 

[toobfreak]

As not one being harmed, I have no standing to sue anyone.
The point however is that it is a horrific precedent to abuse individual rights to that degree.
It is basically the ultimate dictatorship to ignore the Bill of Rights and due process.

I understand what your problem is now.

You need laid real bad.

 

[M14 Shooter]

I don't like Trump but he has the authority to call up the National Guard for shit like this.

At least 2 sections of 10 USC say otherwise.

I don't believe he has the authority to deploy Marines for riot control. . Active duty military can not be used to enforce domestic policy.

The NG and Marines were sent to LA for the 1992 Rodney King riots.

 

[Rigby5]

what inherent individual right gives someone the right to come into another country without permission? Why is it illegal to deny illegals of life, liberty or the pursuit of happiness? The Govt can do that to it's own citizens...we literally put people in person and execute them.

Agreed, and the natives living there are the time aren't the ones at issue at this point.

Then isn't that an issue Spain should have with us? Not some illegal from Venezulua

Its not our country actually, but theirs, since they are the natives and we are European invaders who murdered their ancestors and drove them out.

Those undocumented who happen to be here have the exact same individual rights, like life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness.
Government does NOT have any authority of its own.
When government arrest, it does so based on the delegated authority they borrow, from those they are protecting.
But since undocumented harm no one, and actually are an advantage to those who wish to hire them, it then is illegal to arrest them.

The descendants of the original natives have the same rights as the originals.
In fact, most of the US is still supposed to be protected land grands from Spain, France, and England, that we are violating.

The "illegals from Venezuela" not only came from ancestors who originally lived in the US, but we illegally imposed economic sanctions on Venezuela that forced them to have to flee Venezuela.

The Treaty of Guadelupe Hidalgo was with Mexico, not Spain.

 

[HikerGuy83]

armed invasion

They are here illegally and they are throwing rocks and objects at police.

Hence...there is an armed invasion.

 

[Rigby5]

No warrant is needed for a crime in progress.

Wrong.
Warrants are always needed, but if you have probable cause, you can arrest first and get the warrant for the arrest after the fact.
Police, HLS, ICE, FBI, etc. have no special arrest authority.
The authority for arrest come from the defense of our own individual rights, and requires due process of a judge.
There is no exception.

 

[Rigby5]

I understand what your problem is now.

You need laid real bad.

What you are forgetting is that if you do not follow the basic principles and just do what you or others want, it will backfire and be abused by those who want bad things.
You have to always follow the basic principles, which is defense of inherent individual rights.

 

[Rigby5]

At least 2 sections of 10 USC say otherwise.

The NG and Marines were sent to LA for the 1992 Rodney King riots.

It probably was illegal for the Marines to be used in 1992, but it was totally different.
The Rodney King beating was already over and could not be fixed, but the riots were a clear and present danger to police and everyone else.
So it is quite reasonable to employ a counter threat to protect everyone.

The situation in LA now is entirely different, where ICE is the constant cause of the problem, and it is then wrong to call up troops to perpetuate the illegal abuses by ICE.

See the difference?
In 1992 it was defensive so legal.
Now it is offensive use of troops, so it makes the troops criminals as well.