What is our obligation to the poor?

[Care4all]

am i forced to pay for a yearly $900 BILLION total defense budget each and every year? Is that FORCE?

 

[Mr Natural]

And of course you're for spreading the wealth and punishing the rich, right?

You saw that, where, in my post exactly?

The major problem we have right now is the unbridled concentration of wealth. The founders spoke against it. Most economists caution against that as well. And when it happens to a huge extent..generally revolution follows.

There's nothing wrong with becoming wealthy from your hard work, innovation and fortitude. There is something wrong when profit is so unevenly distributed that even when you work hard you make barely enough to survive, and those that are making the that wealth are controlling the political process as well.

So you are for force ably removing other peoples wealth to be distributed as some lefty feel good politician wants? You advocate rebellion against the rich? Tell us, what is the proper amount of wealth distribution?

Enough to keep those folks from rising up and killing us.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

I believe we as individuals have a duty and privilege to serve the poor. And that when we try to outsource those responsibilities to the government and to others, than we fail to give and recieve the blessings we could otherwise have.

What do you think?

I think this is fundamentally naïve.

Social programs and public assistance aren’t ‘outsourc[ing] those responsibilities to the government.’ Rather, the government merely functions as a medium to ensure resources reach the needy in a consistent and effective manner, as opposed to a pure private, non-profit ‘system’ lacking oversight. Indeed, those wishing to give to private, non-profit entities are more than welcome to do so, if they have the need to realize a ‘blessing,’ whatever that’s supposed to be.

As with a majority of Americans I contribute both with regard to the taxes I pay and my contributions to charitable organizations. I also contribute my time.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Ive been thinking about it this morning and I was wondering what our obligation to the poor is. Im not talking about what we should outsource to the government or what the government should do. But what do we as individuals have a responsibility to do?

I keep thinking of the words of a hymn:

"We'll go to the poor like our Captain of old. And visit the weary, the hungry, and cold. We'll cheer up their hearts with the news that he bore and point them to Zion and life evermore."

I believe we as individuals have a duty and privilege to serve the poor. And that when we try to outsource those responsibilities to the government and to others, than we fail to give and recieve the blessings we could otherwise have.

What do you think?

King Benjamin (Mosiah 4, Book of Mormon) would applaud the searchings of your heart but disagree with your "outsourcing" comment. He would tell you that private and public efforts are mandatory, of course. I would think that we would take care of the weary, the infirm, the children and infants, mothers with children, train the non-taxpayer into becoming taxpayers. When we fail to use appropriate outsource opportunities, we deny blessings to those in need but to ourselves as well.

 

[MeBelle]

People who are against universal, single payer insurance already have some kind of good insurance. What they're against is taking care of the poor who have nothing and no hopes of ever getting anything. Damn easy to feel that way if you already have it made.

You are painting with a very broad brush.
Your statement is false.

I have lived the majority of my adult years without health insurance.
Did I become a burden to the public when I was ill?
No, I paid off my debt, little by little.

When I lived in Virginia I was diagnosed with melanoma.
The city I lived in had/has a very comprehensive, inter-woven, health care system which began when a philanthropist donated a building at her death to be used ONLY for health care.
VOLUNTEER health care practitioners from nurses to surgeons, hospitals, ambulance service, pharm companies, etc, etc came together to help the working poor, IE, those who made too much for medicaid but didn't make enough to purchase health insurance. But it started with one person.

I send a check to this organization every year. My first donation was $5, but I KNEW where and how my voluntary donation went and how it was spent.

I know damn well I received better care in that situation then I would have received had I had gov't care (medicaid) or private health insurance.

 

[MeBelle]

I believe we as individuals have a duty and privilege to serve the poor. And that when we try to outsource those responsibilities to the government and to others, than we fail to give and recieve the blessings we could otherwise have.

What do you think?

I think this is fundamentally naïve.

Social programs and public assistance aren’t ‘outsourc[ing] those responsibilities to the government.’ Rather, the government merely functions as a medium to ensure resources reach the needy in a consistent and effective manner, as opposed to a pure private, non-profit ‘system’ lacking oversight. Indeed, those wishing to give to private, non-profit entities are more than welcome to do so, if they have the need to realize a ‘blessing,’ whatever that’s supposed to be.

As with a majority of Americans I contribute both with regard to the taxes I pay and my contributions to charitable organizations. I also contribute my time.

And that would be peachy IF your claim "... the government merely functions as a medium to ensure resources reach the needy in a consistent and effective manner...", were true.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Consider the alternative since 1994, MeBelle60, and give us an alternative that will work.

I am glad you beat melanoma, and I congratulate you on your rare opportunity, your courage to strive, and paying off the bill. You are inspiration.

 

[Cammmpbell]

am i forced to pay for a yearly $900 BILLION total defense budget each and every year? Is that FORCE?

Go read Dwight D. Eisenhower's last speech to the American people just before the end of his second term. He warned us all of the possibility of creating a military/industrial complex. Guess what? We did it anyway. When this country's leaders run out of threats they either lie about one or plot to create one. It's been that way most of my life. 'Course I'm just 77 years old.

 

[syrenn]

We're the only industrialized country in the world where 500 companies make profits off of sick people. Then... we still rank 37th in overall health. Being the compassionate individual that I am I hope your stomach cancer doesn't cause too much pain.

So far so good.. no stomach cancer....
I will however be happy to tell my oncologist what you said about pain. As i am more then happy to pay for what ever is prescribed.

How old are you? I'm 77 and haven't had anything like that either but a brother-in-law fought multiple myeloma for five years before he died. Chemotherapy treatments ranged from $9,000 to $14,000 a dose and the stem cell transplants rounded at about $10,000. He had no insurance because he worked in food service managing restaurants for 50 years but my sister's insurance covered him. She retired from Lockheed Martin. I repeat...we're the only industrialized nation in the world where 500 companies make profits off of sick people.

People who are against universal, single payer insurance already have some kind of good insurance. What they're against is taking care of the poor who have nothing and no hopes of ever getting anything. Damn easy to feel that way if you already have it made.

Just an FYI....age has nothing to do with having relay evil cancer. I know full well what chemo and radiation therapy costs.

You could also say it is damn easy to feel that the "rich" owe you something becasue they have "made" it already.

 

[Avatar4321]

Ive been thinking about it this morning and I was wondering what our obligation to the poor is. Im not talking about what we should outsource to the government or what the government should do. But what do we as individuals have a responsibility to do?

I keep thinking of the words of a hymn:

"We'll go to the poor like our Captain of old. And visit the weary, the hungry, and cold. We'll cheer up their hearts with the news that he bore and point them to Zion and life evermore."

I believe we as individuals have a duty and privilege to serve the poor. And that when we try to outsource those responsibilities to the government and to others, than we fail to give and recieve the blessings we could otherwise have.

What do you think?

King Benjamin (Mosiah 4, Book of Mormon) would applaud the searchings of your heart but disagree with your "outsourcing" comment. He would tell you that private and public efforts are mandatory, of course. I would think that we would take care of the weary, the infirm, the children and infants, mothers with children, train the non-taxpayer into becoming taxpayers. When we fail to use appropriate outsource opportunities, we deny blessings to those in need but to ourselves as well.

No matter how many times you try to claim otherwise, Benjamin never endorsed outsourcing the people's charity to him.

 

[Avatar4321]

I believe we as individuals have a duty and privilege to serve the poor. And that when we try to outsource those responsibilities to the government and to others, than we fail to give and recieve the blessings we could otherwise have.

What do you think?

I think this is fundamentally naïve.

Social programs and public assistance aren’t ‘outsourc[ing] those responsibilities to the government.’ Rather, the government merely functions as a medium to ensure resources reach the needy in a consistent and effective manner, as opposed to a pure private, non-profit ‘system’ lacking oversight. Indeed, those wishing to give to private, non-profit entities are more than welcome to do so, if they have the need to realize a ‘blessing,’ whatever that’s supposed to be.

As with a majority of Americans I contribute both with regard to the taxes I pay and my contributions to charitable organizations. I also contribute my time.

And that would be peachy IF your claim "... the government merely functions as a medium to ensure resources reach the needy in a consistent and effective manner...", were true.

Which is one of many reasons we shouldnt be outsourcing charity. Another being that it ceases to be charity when it's forced.

 

[syrenn]

I think this is fundamentally naïve.

Social programs and public assistance aren’t ‘outsourc[ing] those responsibilities to the government.’ Rather, the government merely functions as a medium to ensure resources reach the needy in a consistent and effective manner, as opposed to a pure private, non-profit ‘system’ lacking oversight. Indeed, those wishing to give to private, non-profit entities are more than welcome to do so, if they have the need to realize a ‘blessing,’ whatever that’s supposed to be.

As with a majority of Americans I contribute both with regard to the taxes I pay and my contributions to charitable organizations. I also contribute my time.

And that would be peachy IF your claim "... the government merely functions as a medium to ensure resources reach the needy in a consistent and effective manner...", were true.

Which is one of many reasons we shouldnt be outsourcing charity. Another being that it ceases to be charity when it's forced.

I agree..

For me... once forced... the feel good glow is gone...and all that is left is anger and resentment. It turns from me giving....into someone stealing from me.

 

[Care4all]

if all the churches and synagogues and temples were doing what some call "their job", then we would not have any poor that fall between the cracks and need help from elsewhere....

but the millions in poverty worldwide is obviously too large of a load for them to take on all by themselves...

 

[Cammmpbell]

if all the churches and synagogues and temples were doing what some call "their job", then we would not have any poor that fall between the cracks and need help from elsewhere....

but the millions in poverty worldwide is obviously too large of a load for them to take on all by themselves...

Yeah...for starters the Vatican could sell the billions of dollars worth of art it has collected over the last 1500 years. 'Course the place would look all run down without it.

Churches own more real property than any other entity on earth except governments themselves. The bible gave Noah precise instructions about all the measurements of the ark and there's not a word in the new testament about building a church. Methinks god was created in man's image and not the other way round.

 

[Lokiate]

I do contribute to the poor. I also volunteer a lot of my time to them. We also give away LOTS to veterans organizations and shelters (food, clothing, appliances, etc.).

Doesn't everyone do this?

Unfortunately, no.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

if all the churches and synagogues and temples were doing what some call "their job", then we would not have any poor that fall between the cracks and need help from elsewhere....

but the millions in poverty worldwide is obviously too large of a load for them to take on all by themselves...

It is not the job of the federal Government to feed, cloth and house the poor. IF a Government IS responsible it is the State Governments. You want the States to take care of people from birth to death petition your State to do so.

You want the federal Government to do it? Get an amendment created and pass it.

But I repeat, if YOU personally are not giving your all, your home your food your clothing your money to the poor, do not claim the Government should tax others to do it.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Simply not true. a lot of churches have separate funds for different projects. And the money is divided amongst them or sought specifically for a sole purpose.

I realize it is expected of some of you to bash religion but perhaps you could get your facts straight first.

I was baptized Baptist on a spring morning in 1957. I was in the church until I was over 60 years old. We tithed our gross income. I taught Sunday school. I was a member of the Brotherhood, I was on the visitation committee, the building committee etc. I worked with RA boys and helped with vacation bible school. I attended youth retreats and assisted in the planning of everything our church was involved in. I can understand you needing to believe the church uses your money for the poor and needy but guess what...that's a lie. I saw where every penny of our donations ended up. The poor were lucky if they received anything.

That would be YOUR church not EVERY church and further if you participated in it you are to blame for raising no fuss over it. Many churches do NOT follow YOUR example, claiming they do is a lie.

Suggesting you know what many other churches do isn't exactly the truth.

 

[Wry Catcher]

if all the churches and synagogues and temples were doing what some call "their job", then we would not have any poor that fall between the cracks and need help from elsewhere....

but the millions in poverty worldwide is obviously too large of a load for them to take on all by themselves...

It is not the job of the federal Government to feed, cloth and house the poor. IF a Government IS responsible it is the State Governments. You want the States to take care of people from birth to death petition your State to do so.

You want the federal Government to do it? Get an amendment created and pass it.

But I repeat, if YOU personally are not giving your all, your home your food your clothing your money to the poor, do not claim the Government should tax others to do it.

LOL, spoken like a true parrot. Not an ounce of sense or pragmatic thought in any of your words.

 

[Wry Catcher]

If, as the parrot suggests, each state determined for its population how to feed, cloth, shelter and care for the health of the poor we would see a mass movement of the poor from red states to blue states. Those states under the control of callous conservatives would provide fee bus tickets out of their home state after counseling the poor that a free lunch could be had - and dinner too - in a blue state.

In 1972 I began my career in law enforcement. Learning to read a 'rap' sheet one learns something of social policy. The states of Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, Texas and Arkansas routinely reported arrests for minor and some major crimes along with the disposition "floater"

I asked what the hell a floater was (thinking a victim of drowning, but how could that be we had the floater in custody?). Well, it seems the good people in the South didn't want the vagrants, drunks, petty theives and such in their community so they dismissed the charge(s) if an only if the offender would get on the bus and never return.

 

[California Girl]

We're the only industrialized country in the world where 500 companies make profits off of sick people. Then... we still rank 37th in overall health. Being the compassionate individual that I am I hope your stomach cancer doesn't cause too much pain.

So far so good.. no stomach cancer....
I will however be happy to tell my oncologist what you said about pain. As i am more then happy to pay for what ever is prescribed.

How old are you? I'm 77 and haven't had anything like that either but a brother-in-law fought multiple myeloma for five years before he died. Chemotherapy treatments ranged from $9,000 to $14,000 a dose and the stem cell transplants rounded at about $10,000. He had no insurance because he worked in food service managing restaurants for 50 years but my sister's insurance covered him. She retired from Lockheed Martin. I repeat...we're the only industrialized nation in the world where 500 companies make profits off of sick people.

People who are against universal, single payer insurance already have some kind of good insurance. What they're against is taking care of the poor who have nothing and no hopes of ever getting anything. Damn easy to feel that way if you already have it made.

Some of us who are 'against universal, single payer insurance' are against it because it won't work. Simple fucking math. It doesn't work in the UK, or any other country that has it. Each and every one has a health service that it out of control, costing their countries a fortune, riddled with corruption, incompetence and bad management. Let's take the UK as an example. Crap system - and the fourth largest employer on the planet. 4th. Largest. Employer. On. The. Planet! And that's for a country of c61m people. Now, work that out to a country the size of the USA.

Do the fucking math. It can not work.