What is our obligation to the poor?

[AVG-JOE]

What is our obligation to the poor?

Our obligation to ourselves is to keep the streets safe for the tourists. Feeding and sheltering those unable or unwilling to feed or shelter themselves is part of that clean up effort.

Having more compassion for those unable to take care of themselves and contempt for those unwilling to feed themselves is human nature.

 

[Wry Catcher]

So far so good.. no stomach cancer....
I will however be happy to tell my oncologist what you said about pain. As i am more then happy to pay for what ever is prescribed.

How old are you? I'm 77 and haven't had anything like that either but a brother-in-law fought multiple myeloma for five years before he died. Chemotherapy treatments ranged from $9,000 to $14,000 a dose and the stem cell transplants rounded at about $10,000. He had no insurance because he worked in food service managing restaurants for 50 years but my sister's insurance covered him. She retired from Lockheed Martin. I repeat...we're the only industrialized nation in the world where 500 companies make profits off of sick people.

People who are against universal, single payer insurance already have some kind of good insurance. What they're against is taking care of the poor who have nothing and no hopes of ever getting anything. Damn easy to feel that way if you already have it made.

Some of us who are 'against universal, single payer insurance' are against it because it won't work. Simple ******* math. It doesn't work in the UK, or any other country that has it. Each and every one has a health service that it out of control, costing their countries a fortune, riddled with corruption, incompetence and bad management. Let's take the UK as an example. Crap system - and the fourth largest employer on the planet. 4th. Largest. Employer. On. The. Planet! And that's for a country of c61m people. Now, work that out to a country the size of the USA.

Do the ******* math. It can not work.

No. You do the math and prove it can't work.

Preventative health care for all American citizens will save money in the long term. Start up will be costly but real conservatives understand preventative medicine will protect us from many diseases and early diagnosis and treatment is cheaper.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I was baptized Baptist on a spring morning in 1957. I was in the church until I was over 60 years old. We tithed our gross income. I taught Sunday school. I was a member of the Brotherhood, I was on the visitation committee, the building committee etc. I worked with RA boys and helped with vacation bible school. I attended youth retreats and assisted in the planning of everything our church was involved in. I can understand you needing to believe the church uses your money for the poor and needy but guess what...that's a lie. I saw where every penny of our donations ended up. The poor were lucky if they received anything.

That would be YOUR church not EVERY church and further if you participated in it you are to blame for raising no fuss over it. Many churches do NOT follow YOUR example, claiming they do is a lie.

Suggesting you know what many other churches do isn't exactly the truth.

Sure you can "suggest" what other churches do but Not I, right?

 

[Wry Catcher]

That would be YOUR church not EVERY church and further if you participated in it you are to blame for raising no fuss over it. Many churches do NOT follow YOUR example, claiming they do is a lie.

Suggesting you know what many other churches do isn't exactly the truth.

Sure you can "suggest" what other churches do but Not I, right?

I didn't, the other guy did.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Suggesting you know what many other churches do isn't exactly the truth.

Sure you can "suggest" what other churches do but Not I, right?

I didn't, the other guy did.

And you defended him claiming I was wrong, which means you think he is right. You are a piece of work.

 

[syrenn]

Ive been thinking about it this morning and I was wondering what our obligation to the poor is. Im not talking about what we should outsource to the government or what the government should do. But what do we as individuals have a responsibility to do?

I keep thinking of the words of a hymn:

"We'll go to the poor like our Captain of old. And visit the weary, the hungry, and cold. We'll cheer up their hearts with the news that he bore and point them to Zion and life evermore."

I believe we as individuals have a duty and privilege to serve the poor. And that when we try to outsource those responsibilities to the government and to others, than we fail to give and recieve the blessings we could otherwise have.

What do you think?

Instead of you all screeching about what a nanny state can or cannot do for the poor...



I do believe the OP's intention was what is YOUR personal responsibility to the poor....what do YOU do for the poor....

 

[JakeStarkey]

Ive been thinking about it this morning and I was wondering what our obligation to the poor is. Im not talking about what we should outsource to the government or what the government should do. But what do we as individuals have a responsibility to do?

I keep thinking of the words of a hymn:

"We'll go to the poor like our Captain of old. And visit the weary, the hungry, and cold. We'll cheer up their hearts with the news that he bore and point them to Zion and life evermore."

I believe we as individuals have a duty and privilege to serve the poor. And that when we try to outsource those responsibilities to the government and to others, than we fail to give and recieve the blessings we could otherwise have.

What do you think?

King Benjamin (Mosiah 4, Book of Mormon) would applaud the searchings of your heart but disagree with your "outsourcing" comment. He would tell you that private and public efforts are mandatory, of course. I would think that we would take care of the weary, the infirm, the children and infants, mothers with children, train the non-taxpayer into becoming taxpayers. When we fail to use appropriate outsource opportunities, we deny blessings to those in need but to ourselves as well.

No matter how many times you try to claim otherwise, Benjamin never endorsed outsourcing the people's charity to him.

You have eyes to see and ears to hear yet you fail to heed the clear message of your prophet, or the economic communalism of Joseph Smith or Brigham Young. All would counsel you that you are putting your failed economic policies before the teachings of your prophets.

Listen to President Monson, not President Beck.

 

[Barb]

we are the government.

 

[syrenn]

we are the government.

That may be... but considering that government is what everyone is complaining about.... i would say the "we" are not enough.

I however put my money where my mouth is. I don't do "helping the poor" lip service.

I give to charities. I donate food and goods. I use my time. I do it face to face and hands on.

 

[Amelia]

King Benjamin (Mosiah 4, Book of Mormon) would applaud the searchings of your heart but disagree with your "outsourcing" comment. He would tell you that private and public efforts are mandatory, of course. I would think that we would take care of the weary, the infirm, the children and infants, mothers with children, train the non-taxpayer into becoming taxpayers. When we fail to use appropriate outsource opportunities, we deny blessings to those in need but to ourselves as well.

No matter how many times you try to claim otherwise, Benjamin never endorsed outsourcing the people's charity to him.

You have eyes to see and ears to hear yet you fail to heed the clear message of your prophet, or the economic communalism of Joseph Smith or Brigham Young. All would counsel you that you are putting your failed economic policies before the teachings of your prophets.

Listen to President Monson, not President Beck.

If you know enough of the history of Mormonism to know about the economic communalism of JS or BY, then you know that the Mormon church abandoned that theory because it wasn't the right time for it. There's no way they would have suggested that the secular government should take up where the religious government failed.

 

[Avatar4321]

King Benjamin (Mosiah 4, Book of Mormon) would applaud the searchings of your heart but disagree with your "outsourcing" comment. He would tell you that private and public efforts are mandatory, of course. I would think that we would take care of the weary, the infirm, the children and infants, mothers with children, train the non-taxpayer into becoming taxpayers. When we fail to use appropriate outsource opportunities, we deny blessings to those in need but to ourselves as well.

No matter how many times you try to claim otherwise, Benjamin never endorsed outsourcing the people's charity to him.

You have eyes to see and ears to hear yet you fail to heed the clear message of your prophet, or the economic communalism of Joseph Smith or Brigham Young. All would counsel you that you are putting your failed economic policies before the teachings of your prophets.

Listen to President Monson, not President Beck.

I do listen to President Monson. He has never advocated oursourcing our charity to the government. He teaches us that we need to minister to the poor and afflicted, not tax someone others to pay others to do it half heartedly.

The Gospel of Jesus Christ is all about individual service. Not government.

 

[syrenn]

No matter how many times you try to claim otherwise, Benjamin never endorsed outsourcing the people's charity to him.

You have eyes to see and ears to hear yet you fail to heed the clear message of your prophet, or the economic communalism of Joseph Smith or Brigham Young. All would counsel you that you are putting your failed economic policies before the teachings of your prophets.

Listen to President Monson, not President Beck.

I do listen to President Monson. He has never advocated oursourcing our charity to the government. He teaches us that we need to minister to the poor and afflicted, not tax someone others to pay others to do it half heartedly.

The Gospel of Jesus Christ is all about individual service. Not government.

So what do you personally do for the poor Avatar?

 

[2twsted4colorTV]

The social compact should be simple.

-Food and water.
-Shelter.
-Health care.
-Education.

Americans should not let other Americans live in squalor. Citizens get the basics. Any thing more you have to work your ass off for..

The problem being.... the poor. Nothing is ever enough.

Food and water is not good enough... steak and wine is
Shelter... i give you the housing crisis of wanting more then you can afford
Health care... They want everything that the "rich" afford for themselves without limits.
Education... they get 1-12 for free.

I agree.... the basics....they rest.... work your ass off for.

I totally agree. K through 12 is free. You don't graduate from high school, it's your own fault. We KNOW why people in this country are poor, due to lack of education and/or desire to work hard. We do food baskets at christmas for the needy. Same people show up year after year. We all work hard gathering the food for 2 months, sorting it, hauling it, then have a benefit dance to pay for the perishables. All done WITHOUT government assistance of any kind. I'm wondering, why aren't the receivers of these baskets down here sorting and helping to organize this? But they can't even do that. We are doing it for them. Any baskets not picked up go to the Catholic church's food bank, which is run by them year round, NOT the government. I don't care how poor I would get and have been, I know how to cook from scratch, how to sew, how to grow vegetables. These same people who are so poor they go to food banks, always seem to have money for beer and cigarettes.

 

[syrenn]

The social compact should be simple.

-Food and water.
-Shelter.
-Health care.
-Education.

Americans should not let other Americans live in squalor. Citizens get the basics. Any thing more you have to work your ass off for..

The problem being.... the poor. Nothing is ever enough.

Food and water is not good enough... steak and wine is
Shelter... i give you the housing crisis of wanting more then you can afford
Health care... They want everything that the "rich" afford for themselves without limits.
Education... they get 1-12 for free.

I agree.... the basics....they rest.... work your ass off for.

I totally agree. K through 12 is free. You don't graduate from high school, it's your own fault. We KNOW why people in this country are poor, due to lack of education and/or desire to work hard. We do food baskets at christmas for the needy. Same people show up year after year. We all work hard gathering the food for 2 months, sorting it, hauling it, then have a benefit dance to pay for the perishables. All done WITHOUT government assistance of any kind. I'm wondering, why aren't the receivers of these baskets down here sorting and helping to organize this? But they can't even do that. We are doing it for them. Any baskets not picked up go to the Catholic church's food bank, which is run by them year round, NOT the government. I don't care how poor I would get and have been, I know how to cook from scratch, how to sew, how to grow vegetables. These same people who are so poor they go to food banks, always seem to have money for beer and cigarettes.

yes it bothers me too that the ones on the receiving end of what i do...and also not doing what they can in the chain of events....

 

[Care4all]

if all the churches and synagogues and temples were doing what some call "their job", then we would not have any poor that fall between the cracks and need help from elsewhere....

but the millions in poverty worldwide is obviously too large of a load for them to take on all by themselves...

It is not the job of the federal Government to feed, cloth and house the poor. IF a Government IS responsible it is the State Governments. You want the States to take care of people from birth to death petition your State to do so.

You want the federal Government to do it? Get an amendment created and pass it.

But I repeat, if YOU personally are not giving your all, your home your food your clothing your money to the poor, do not claim the Government should tax others to do it.

I have no problem with the govt taxing ME to take care of the neediest. that's all that matters. My vote will go towards a representative that will take that position...and if your representation is to NOT give a penny of taxes towards the neediest, then your rep and my rep and other reps will duke it out....let the best man win...and hopefully my representative will be against manufactured wars, or preemptive wars with no true imminent danger and vote against spending money on that....while your representative may support such and once again, all of them will have to duke it out and let the best man win...

I don't need an amendment to the constitution, so far...the general welfare clause has not been shot down by the SC....

I don't want my money going towards things like a statue of Thor in alabama, or some bridge to NO WHERE in Alaska, or even to the big dig in boston, or towards metro airports and believe this should be local taxes and not federal...so hopefully i can have a rep that does not support those things either....

but medical care for those who can not afford it, or food for those that are hard on their luck, or unemployment for those that lost their jobs, or medicare for seniors etc...I am all for MY income TAXES going towards those in need like the above...

if you don't like it, then vote for someone who takes your position.

sometimes you win and sometimes you lose...and just cuz ya lose, does not mean it is unconstitutional.

 

[JakeStarkey]

You have eyes to see and ears to hear yet you fail to heed the clear message of your prophet, or the economic communalism of Joseph Smith or Brigham Young. All would counsel you that you are putting your failed economic policies before the teachings of your prophets.

Listen to President Monson, not President Beck.

I do listen to President Monson. He has never advocated oursourcing our charity to the government. He teaches us that we need to minister to the poor and afflicted, not tax someone others to pay others to do it half heartedly.

The Gospel of Jesus Christ is all about individual service. Not government.

So what do you personally do for the poor Avatar?

I am sure you are hearing only what you want, and that you are ignoring the communalistic beginnings of the Latter Day Saints. I remember that I read about the Reformation of 1856 in Utah Territory, and that either Kimball or Grant, counselors to Young, said the local police would have to check on the members' worthiness if the bishops did not.

No, Avatar, you are not following church counsel.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The social compact should be simple.

-Food and water.
-Shelter.
-Health care.
-Education.

Americans should not let other Americans live in squalor. Citizens get the basics. Any thing more you have to work your ass off for..

The problem being.... the poor. Nothing is ever enough.

Food and water is not good enough... steak and wine is
Shelter... i give you the housing crisis of wanting more then you can afford
Health care... They want everything that the "rich" afford for themselves without limits.
Education... they get 1-12 for free.

I agree.... the basics....they rest.... work your ass off for.

I totally agree. K through 12 is free. You don't graduate from high school, it's your own fault. We KNOW why people in this country are poor, due to lack of education and/or desire to work hard. We do food baskets at christmas for the needy. Same people show up year after year. We all work hard gathering the food for 2 months, sorting it, hauling it, then have a benefit dance to pay for the perishables. All done WITHOUT government assistance of any kind. I'm wondering, why aren't the receivers of these baskets down here sorting and helping to organize this? But they can't even do that. We are doing it for them. Any baskets not picked up go to the Catholic church's food bank, which is run by them year round, NOT the government. I don't care how poor I would get and have been, I know how to cook from scratch, how to sew, how to grow vegetables. These same people who are so poor they go to food banks, always seem to have money for beer and cigarettes.

How very simplistic and inadequate an explanation for poverty and remediating it.

 

[syrenn]

The problem being.... the poor. Nothing is ever enough.

Food and water is not good enough... steak and wine is
Shelter... i give you the housing crisis of wanting more then you can afford
Health care... They want everything that the "rich" afford for themselves without limits.
Education... they get 1-12 for free.

I agree.... the basics....they rest.... work your ass off for.

I totally agree. K through 12 is free. You don't graduate from high school, it's your own fault. We KNOW why people in this country are poor, due to lack of education and/or desire to work hard. We do food baskets at christmas for the needy. Same people show up year after year. We all work hard gathering the food for 2 months, sorting it, hauling it, then have a benefit dance to pay for the perishables. All done WITHOUT government assistance of any kind. I'm wondering, why aren't the receivers of these baskets down here sorting and helping to organize this? But they can't even do that. We are doing it for them. Any baskets not picked up go to the Catholic church's food bank, which is run by them year round, NOT the government. I don't care how poor I would get and have been, I know how to cook from scratch, how to sew, how to grow vegetables. These same people who are so poor they go to food banks, always seem to have money for beer and cigarettes.

How very simplistic and inadequate an explanation for poverty and remediating it.

Really? She* is doing something in directly for the poor in her community.






*I think 2twsted4colorTV, i may be wrong. Sorry in advance if i am.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

if all the churches and synagogues and temples were doing what some call "their job", then we would not have any poor that fall between the cracks and need help from elsewhere....

but the millions in poverty worldwide is obviously too large of a load for them to take on all by themselves...

It is not the job of the federal Government to feed, cloth and house the poor. IF a Government IS responsible it is the State Governments. You want the States to take care of people from birth to death petition your State to do so.

You want the federal Government to do it? Get an amendment created and pass it.

But I repeat, if YOU personally are not giving your all, your home your food your clothing your money to the poor, do not claim the Government should tax others to do it.

I have no problem with the govt taxing ME to take care of the neediest. that's all that matters. My vote will go towards a representative that will take that position...and if your representation is to NOT give a penny of taxes towards the neediest, then your rep and my rep and other reps will duke it out....let the best man win...and hopefully my representative will be against manufactured wars, or preemptive wars with no true imminent danger and vote against spending money on that....while your representative may support such and once again, all of them will have to duke it out and let the best man win...

I don't need an amendment to the constitution, so far...the general welfare clause has not been shot down by the SC....

I don't want my money going towards things like a statue of Thor in alabama, or some bridge to NO WHERE in Alaska, or even to the big dig in boston, or towards metro airports and believe this should be local taxes and not federal...so hopefully i can have a rep that does not support those things either....

but medical care for those who can not afford it, or food for those that are hard on their luck, or unemployment for those that lost their jobs, or medicare for seniors etc...I am all for MY income TAXES going towards those in need like the above...

if you don't like it, then vote for someone who takes your position.

sometimes you win and sometimes you lose...and just cuz ya lose, does not mean it is unconstitutional.

There is no general welfare clause in the Constitution. It is not an enumerated power it is an explanatory comment on the following enumerated powers. Or perhaps you can cite for a single law, a single Court ruling that has EVER claimed a general Clause as an enumerated power.

You want the Government to be your nanny? Create an amendment and get it passed by 37 States.

 

[High_Gravity]

The social compact should be simple.

-Food and water.
-Shelter.
-Health care.
-Education.

Americans should not let other Americans live in squalor. Citizens get the basics. Any thing more you have to work your ass off for..

The problem being.... the poor. Nothing is ever enough.

Food and water is not good enough... steak and wine is
Shelter... i give you the housing crisis of wanting more then you can afford
Health care... They want everything that the "rich" afford for themselves without limits.
Education... they get 1-12 for free.

I agree.... the basics....they rest.... work your ass off for.

I totally agree. K through 12 is free. You don't graduate from high school, it's your own fault. We KNOW why people in this country are poor, due to lack of education and/or desire to work hard. We do food baskets at christmas for the needy. Same people show up year after year. We all work hard gathering the food for 2 months, sorting it, hauling it, then have a benefit dance to pay for the perishables. All done WITHOUT government assistance of any kind. I'm wondering, why aren't the receivers of these baskets down here sorting and helping to organize this? But they can't even do that. We are doing it for them. Any baskets not picked up go to the Catholic church's food bank, which is run by them year round, NOT the government. I don't care how poor I would get and have been, I know how to cook from scratch, how to sew, how to grow vegetables. These same people who are so poor they go to food banks, always seem to have money for beer and cigarettes.

Beer and smokes are a necessity for the poor it seems.