Zone1 What is hate speech?

[Lisa558]

Hate speech can be mentioning any unflattering fact about blacks.

….or racism. When I objected to Obamacare - knowing there was no way you could make health insurance cover more people, with better plans, at cheaper prices - I was accused of disliking it “because a black man came up with it.”

This, btw, was the plan for the FRD* in having Harris as VP. Once she ascended the throne, any criticism of her socialist, racist, Marxist policies would be silenced with shrieks of “raaaacist!” The problem for the FRD is that they never dreamed she would be as brainless and incompetent as she has revealed herself to be.

*Far-right Democrats

 

[Hector12]

When I objected to Obamacare - knowing there was no way you could make health insurance cover more people, with better plans, at cheaper prices - I was accused of disliking it “because a black man came up with it.”

World Health Systems Facts - World Health Systems Facts

World Health Systems Facts - World Health Systems Facts

healthsystemsfacts.org

The other affluent democracies spend less per capita for health care. They have lower infant mortality rates and longer life expediencies. This is because they have socialized medicine. The reason health care is so expensive in the United States and gets such bad results is the reliance on health insurance companies. Money goes to the employees and stock holders of health insurance companies that should be going directly to hospitals, health care providers, and medicine. People in low wage jobs rarely get health coverage at work. They cannot afford to pay for it out of their slender pay checks.

 

[Lisa558]

View attachment 781244

World Health Systems Facts - World Health Systems Facts

World Health Systems Facts - World Health Systems Facts

healthsystemsfacts.org

The other affluent democracies spend less per capita for health care. They have lower infant mortality rates and longer life expediencies. This is because they have socialized medicine. The reason health care is so expensive in the United States and gets such bad results is the reliance on health insurance companies. Money goes to the employees and stock holders of health insurance companies that should be going directly to hospitals, health care providers, and medicine. People in low wage jobs rarely get health coverage at work. They cannot afford to pay for it out of their slender pay checks.

And Obamacare didn’t solve that. All it did was shift the financial burden rather than reduce costs.

We need more transparency in medical costs - upfront - to get rid of the inflated costs that insurance “negotiates” down. I just went to the eye doctor for a checkup, and the bill was more than $1000 for my being there for 45 minutes. The “allowable amount” from the insurance plan, which the doctor would accept as full payment, was $300, and insurance kicked in $240 of that. My cost was $60.

Now why not have the doctor charge out $300 from the start, since he apparently agreed to accept that, and then let people decide whether or not they want to carry a policy to cover routine expenses, and buy an inexpensive catastrophic care plan in the event of a major medical issue?

THAT is the way it should have been done. All Obamacare did was force SOME people to buy expensive plans with poor coverage in order to provide OTHER people with free plans.

 

[Hector12]

This, btw, was the plan for the FRD* in having Harris as VP. Once she ascended the throne, any criticism of her socialist, racist, Marxist policies would be silenced with shrieks of “raaaacist!” The problem for the FRD is that they never dreamed she would be as brainless and incompetent as she has revealed herself to be.

Those on the right use the word "Marxist" as carelessly as those on the left use the word "racist." In each case the word is not used to advance a discussion, but to suppress it.

I read some of Marx's writings in college. I have read The Communist Manifesto on several occasions. After college I took a fascinating seminar on Das Kapital given under the auspice of the American Communist Party.

It was directed by a brilliant Ashkenazi Jew, who was also one of those "card carrying Communists" Joe McCarthy warned us against. (I mention that because, as you know, I admire Jews.) He was also one of those "card carrying Communists" Joe McCarthy warned us against.While directing the seminar he worked as a physicist, and still found time to translate a book from Russian to Swedish for the Soviet government.

Interestingly enough I already owned most of the books on the reading list. These included all three volumes of Das Kapital, printed in Moscow by Progress Publishers.

My father was an economist. When I showed Dad the reading list for the seminar he said, "That man knows a lot about economics."

I have known a lot of Marxists. I have liked most of them, and disliked a few. Lisa558, Kamala Harris is not a Marxist. Calling her one is unhelpful to this discussion. She is not a socialist or a racist either.

I do not like her. This is because in one of the Democrat primary debates she condemned Joe Biden for opposing forced school busing in 1973.

Nevertheless, name calling is the lowest form of discourse. I thought you were better than that, Lisa558.

 

[Hector12]

And Obamacare didn’t solve that. All it did was shift the financial burden rather than reduce costs.

We need more transparency in medical costs - upfront - to get rid of the inflated costs that insurance “negotiates” down. I just went to the eye doctor for a checkup, and the bill was more than $1000 for my being there for 45 minutes. The “allowable amount” from the insurance plan, which the doctor would accept as full payment, was $300, and insurance kicked in $240 of that. My cost was $60.

Now why not have the doctor charge out $300 from the start, since he apparently agreed to accept that, and then let people decide whether or not they want to carry a policy to cover routine expenses, and buy an inexpensive catastrophic care plan in the event of a major medical issue?

THAT is the way it should have been done. All Obamacare did was force SOME people to buy expensive plans with poor coverage in order to provide OTHER people with free plans.

The Affordable Health Care Act was the best President Obama could have gotten, considering Republican obstruction. Obama would have preferred a socialized heath care act like the plans that give other affluent democracies better results for less money.

 

[Lisa558]

Those on the right use the word "Marxist" as carelessly as those on the left use the word "racist." In each case the word is not used to advance a discussion, but to suppress it.

I read some of Marx's writings in college. I have read The Communist Manifesto on several occasions. After college I took a fascinating seminar on Das Kapital given under the auspice of the American Communist Party.

It was directed by a brilliant Ashkenazi Jew, who was also one of those "card carrying Communists" Joe McCarthy warned us against. (I mention that because, as you know, I admire Jews.) He was also one of those "card carrying Communists" Joe McCarthy warned us against.While directing the seminar he worked as a physicist, and still found time to translate a book from Russian to Swedish for the Soviet government.

Interestingly enough I already owned most of the books on the reading list. These included all three volumes of Das Kapital, printed in Moscow by Progress Publishers.

My father was an economist. When I showed Dad the reading list for the seminar he said, "That man knows a lot about economics."

I have known a lot of Marxists. I have liked most of them, and disliked a few. Lisa558, Kamala Harris is not a Marxist. Calling her one is unhelpful to this discussion. She is not a socialist or a racist either.

I do not like her. This is because in one of the Democrat primary debates she condemned Joe Biden for opposing forced school busing in 1973.

Nevertheless, name calling is the lowest form of discourse. I thought you were better than that, Lisa558.

And there you are again, with that dripping disapproval that I see from Democrats simply because I disagree with you. I thought you were better than that.

Yes, she is a racist. If you read some of her proposals, she is all about giving other people’s money to low-income groups - one of her more recent was a $25,000 downpayment - because, she said, it would narrow the gap in homeownership between blacks and whites. Any time someone supports giveaways (or favoritism, such as with AA college admissions) with the purpose of achieving a specific racial goal, that person is racist.

I don’t want a president whose focus is on what will help blacks. I want a president who focuses on Americans, regardless of color. Neither do I want a president who enables illegal immigration because it is better for foreign migrants. I want a president who is prioritizes what is better for AMERICANS.

 

[Lisa558]

The Affordable Health Care Act was the best President Obama could have gotten, considering Republican obstruction. Obama would have preferred a socialized heath care act like the plans that give other affluent democracies better results for less money.

Where would the money come from the give everyone socialized medicine? We are already in massive debt.

No, the better option is for cost transparency. Let consumers of health care weigh the costs and quality of medical providers and make their choice. Impossible to do when you don’t know the cost of care until the bill arrives.

 

[Hector12]

And there you are again, with that dripping disapproval that I see from Democrats simply because I disagree with you. I thought you were better than that.

Yes, she is a racist. If you read some of her proposals, she is all about giving other people’s money to low-income groups - one of her more recent was a $25,000 downpayment - because, she said, it would narrow the gap in homeownership between blacks and whites. Any time someone supports giveaways (or favoritism, such as with AA college admissions) with the purpose of achieving a specific racial goal, that person is racist.

I don’t want a president whose focus is on what will help blacks. I want a president who focuses on Americans, regardless of color. Neither do I want a president who enables illegal immigration because it is better for foreign migrants. I want a president who is prioritizes what is better for AMERICANS.

This ^ comment deserves half an upvote.

 

[Hector12]

Where would the money come from the give everyone socialized medicine? We are already in massive debt.

No, the better option is for cost transparency. Let consumers of health care weigh the costs and quality of medical providers and make their choice. Impossible to do when you don’t know the cost of care until the bill arrives.

We can make the rich pay. Tax cuts for the rich have caused the debt to reach present levels. Also, as I have pointed out, socialized medicine is less expensive per capita than our present system.

 

[Lisa558]

Those on the right use the word "Marxist" as carelessly as those on the left use the word "racist." In each case the word is not used to advance a discussion, but to suppress it.

I read some of Marx's writings in college. I have read The Communist Manifesto on several occasions. After college I took a fascinating seminar on Das Kapital given under the auspice of the American Communist Party.

It was directed by a brilliant Ashkenazi Jew, who was also one of those "card carrying Communists" Joe McCarthy warned us against. (I mention that because, as you know, I admire Jews.) He was also one of those "card carrying Communists" Joe McCarthy warned us against.While directing the seminar he worked as a physicist, and still found time to translate a book from Russian to Swedish for the Soviet government.

Interestingly enough I already owned most of the books on the reading list. These included all three volumes of Das Kapital, printed in Moscow by Progress Publishers.

My father was an economist. When I showed Dad the reading list for the seminar he said, "That man knows a lot about economics."

I have known a lot of Marxists. I have liked most of them, and disliked a few. Lisa558, Kamala Harris is not a Marxist. Calling her one is unhelpful to this discussion. She is not a socialist or a racist either.

I do not like her. This is because in one of the Democrat primary debates she condemned Joe Biden for opposing forced school busing in 1973.

Nevertheless, name calling is the lowest form of discourse. I thought you were better than that, Lisa558.

OMG. I just realized something. You would still be willing to vote for Biden even though it likely means Kamala Harris, who can’t form a sentence with any substance and was selected for a job she’s proven incapable of due to Affirmative Action, will become president.

Please tell me you wouldn’t prefer Harris over Trump.

 

[Hector12]

And there you are again, with that dripping disapproval that I see from Democrats simply because I disagree with you. I thought you were better than that.

My comments are composed at the top of this pyramid, not at the bottom.

 

[Lisa558]

We can make the rich pay. Tax cuts for the rich have caused the debt to reach present levels. Also, as I have pointed out, socialized medicine is less expensive per capita than our present system.

What rich?! You could confiscate all the money of the rich and still not have enough.

I once pointed out on a forum run by a Democrat that Bernie Sander’s proposal to “tax the rich” in order to give free college to everyone wouldn’t work - simply not enough rich people to cover the cost, and I provided the calculation. The Democrat, who didn’t want the fact that the math doesn’t work with the “tax the rich” myth, quickly deleted my post and banned me from the site.

 

[AZrailwhale]

We can make the rich pay. Tax cuts for the rich have caused the debt to reach present levels. Also, as I have pointed out, socialized medicine is less expensive per capita than our present system.

You don’t seem to understand that the federal government doesn’t have a revenue problem, it has a spending problem. No matter how much money the taxpayers give it, the fed spends more. The debt has increased trillions over the past four years because the government has given away those trillions without making cuts in other spending to balance the budget. When the US was spending billions to win WWII, it was bringing in new revenue from War Bonds to balance it.
As for socialized medicine being better, where do all the new drugs and medical procedures come from? I will give you a hint, not from countries with socialized medicine. They offer no incentive for progress.

 

[Hector12]

You don’t seem to understand that the federal government doesn’t have a revenue problem, it has a spending problem. No matter how much money the taxpayers give it, the fed spends more. The debt has increased trillions over the past four years because the government has given away those trillions without making cuts in other spending to balance the budget. When the US was spending billions to win WWII, it was bringing in new revenue from War Bonds to balance it.
As for socialized medicine being better, where do all the new drugs and medical procedures come from? I will give you a hint, not from countries with socialized medicine. They offer no incentive for progress.

Those new drugs cannot help those who cannot afford them. In countries with socialized medicine everyone has access to them.

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The Associated Press - National Opinion Research Center at the University of Chicago.

Many dissatisfied with the government’s spending priorities​

Education, health care, Social Security, infrastructure, assistance to the poor, and Medicare top a long list of public policy issues that the public says the government is spending too little on.

Many dissatisfied with the government’s spending priorities - AP-NORC

Education, health care, Social Security, infrastructure, assistance to the poor, and Medicare top a long list of public policy issues that the public says the government is spending too little on.

apnorc.org

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On the other hand, public opinion surveys have shown popular support for a more progressive tax system for years.

Google Search

www.google.com

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When the Second World War ended in 1945 the national debt as a percentage of gross domestic product (GDP) was 114%.

During President Carter's last full year in office this had declined to 32%.

It declined during the Korean War and the War in Vietnam. During this time the top tax rate never got below 70%, and was often much higher.

US National Debt by Year​

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/02inpetr.pdf

Because of Republican tax cuts for the rich the national debt as a percentage of GDP rose to 129% during Trump's last full year in office.

After two years of President Biden it declined to 123%,

Right now Congressional Republicans are using the debt crises for which they are responsible as an excuse to cut spending on popular domestic programs.

 

[Billo_Really]

Turkish landlords owned most of the land. Palestinians hardly owned any. The land was never theirs. Now it belongs to the Jews.

Wrong!

 

[Billo_Really]

If Israel had waited about twenty-four hours the Arabs would have started the war. And Israel would have been destroyed and most of its civilians massacred.

Doesn't matter. The Mossad knew Egypt would not attack.

 

[Billo_Really]

So the Arabs massed a huge army and air force on Israel's border for fun? Deploying that many troops cost the governments of the Arab states millions of dollars a day.

It was just chest thumping.

 

[Hector12]

OMG. I just realized something. You would still be willing to vote for Biden even though it likely means Kamala Harris, who can’t form a sentence with any substance and was selected for a job she’s proven incapable of due to Affirmative Action, will become president.

Please tell me you wouldn’t prefer Harris over Trump.

If Harris urns against Trump I will vote for a third party.

 

[Lisa558]

If Harris urns against Trump I will vote for a third party.

You’re throwing your vote away. If those are the two candidates, one of them will be the president. If you don’t vote for the one you think will be less bad, you’re helping the worse one win.

 

[Flopper]

If someone makes a statement about a group of people that is true but unflattering, should that be regarded as hate speech? If so, what should the punishment be?

For the record, I have a high opinion of Jews and Orientals (AKA, East Asians). If someone makes an unflattering empirical statement about either group or both groups that is untrue, I only ask the opportunity to prove that it is not true. On some websites I am not allowed that opportunity.

For example, on an anti Jewish website I pointed out that one of the accusations Hitler made about German Jews was untrue. I quoted a footnote below his statement in my copy of Mein Kampf. I was banned.

Hate speech is any form of expression through which speakers intend to vilify, humiliate, or incite hatred against a group or a class of persons on the basis of race, religion, skin color sexual identity, gender identity, ethnicity, disability, or national origin.

The Supreme Court has said, it is legal in US because it is protected by the first amendment. So it is up the people whether to accept or reject it and those who resort to it. Our best weapon against hate speech is to condemn it and shun those that use it.