What is H-D to do?

[ABikerSailor]

Good. Motorcycle riders are assholes. Did you know they make a relatively safe mode of transportation with four wheels? Jackasses.

There are more automobile accidents in 3 days than there are motorcycle crashes in a whole year.
Deaths? Im not sure. It wouldnt surprise me if the percentage was higher for 2 wheels

/——-/ Yesterday on the local NYC news channel they had a video of a car intentionally sideswiping a biker. The car slammed the biker up against at tree. Must have been doing 40.

You know, there was a time that I would take a couple of spark plugs and put them in my vest pocket. If there was some idiot driver giving me a hassle on the road, I would simply grab the spark plug, hang my arm by my side and drop the spark plug.

At a minimum, it's gonna make a hell of a lot of noise when the car runs over it. Best case scenario? It puts a hole in their oil pan.

 

[pismoe]

After scraping up brains from fellow coworkers and relatives after motorcycle accidents I gave up riding thirty years ago, back when we made choppers in da garage...

--------------------------------------- agree about the bike building !!

 

[Marion Morrison]

Why America's Favorite Motorcycle Company Is In a Serious Slide

As pointed out in the linked article, Harley Davidson, while it remains a large and profitable company, is in a death spiral. It's main customers are getting too old to buy its expensive new bikes (the most profitable models), and its relatively cheap smaller bikes do not compare favorably with what is available from other makes.

As I look over their product offerings on the company Website, they look to me like variations on the same theme. There are no adventure bikes, no dirt bikes, no sport bikes. In fact, with the death of the V-Rod, they don't sell anything I would have any interest in owning. And I'm a Boomer.

There used to be a lot of quality problems with H-D, but I believe that situation no longer prevails. Apparently, Gen-X and younger buyers (assuming there are enough of them to sustain the market), simply have no interest in investing large sums of money in a depreciating hulk whose main selling point is the noise it makes. They also seem to fight being part of a "herd mentality," and even if they do like the concept of a "cruiser" they are willing to look at Yamaha ("Star"), Kawasaki, Indian, and other cruisers, and not just H-D.

If they were willing to spend a chunk of their development capital on a new style of bike (for them), what should they build? A sport-touring bike? An Adventure Bike? A Sport Bike? An electric bike?

Parenthetically I will add that in my geographical area (Western Pennsylvania), Harley is still the King. The vast majority of bikes one sees out and about are Harley's, most bike shops are nearly-exclusive with Harley's, and most of the motorcycle community either owns or aspires to own a Harley.

My current ride is a Kawasaki Vaquero, which I believe is equivalent to a Road Glide.

View attachment 187489

/——-/ 5 years ago my friend’s 30 something son bought a new Harley. His dream fulfilled. He rode it home, parked it in his parents garage and never rode it again. He made the payments and owns it outright. It just sits there. It hasn’t been started or serviced since day one. No explanation from the kid. Go figure,

He should have at least run it dry, now there's problems.

 

[jon_berzerk]

Why America's Favorite Motorcycle Company Is In a Serious Slide

As pointed out in the linked article, Harley Davidson, while it remains a large and profitable company, is in a death spiral. It's main customers are getting too old to buy its expensive new bikes (the most profitable models), and its relatively cheap smaller bikes do not compare favorably with what is available from other makes.

As I look over their product offerings on the company Website, they look to me like variations on the same theme. There are no adventure bikes, no dirt bikes, no sport bikes. In fact, with the death of the V-Rod, they don't sell anything I would have any interest in owning. And I'm a Boomer.

There used to be a lot of quality problems with H-D, but I believe that situation no longer prevails. Apparently, Gen-X and younger buyers (assuming there are enough of them to sustain the market), simply have no interest in investing large sums of money in a depreciating hulk whose main selling point is the noise it makes. They also seem to fight being part of a "herd mentality," and even if they do like the concept of a "cruiser" they are willing to look at Yamaha ("Star"), Kawasaki, Indian, and other cruisers, and not just H-D.

If they were willing to spend a chunk of their development capital on a new style of bike (for them), what should they build? A sport-touring bike? An Adventure Bike? A Sport Bike? An electric bike?

Parenthetically I will add that in my geographical area (Western Pennsylvania), Harley is still the King. The vast majority of bikes one sees out and about are Harley's, most bike shops are nearly-exclusive with Harley's, and most of the motorcycle community either owns or aspires to own a Harley.

My current ride is a Kawasaki Vaquero, which I believe is equivalent to a Road Glide.

View attachment 187489

who wants one

i gave mine up when

everyone in town got one

thinking they are cool now --LOL

 

[pismoe]

A similar thing is happening with Gibson Guitars.

Their high end stuff is way too expensive and young people just aren't picking up the guitar anymore.

Which leads me to the question:

\What do young people do these days other than play video games and get tattoos?

--------------------------------- todays young people , they do skate boarding , wear baggy nylon sports clothing , use drugs , live in their Moms basement , go to work at Walmart or Starbucks . For the most part they are a despicable crew in my opinion . It is no wonder that USA government is replacing them with third worlders but i disagree with that option Mr. Clean .

 

[pismoe]

Good. Motorcycle riders are assholes. Did you know they make a relatively safe mode of transportation with four wheels? Jackasses.

There are more automobile accidents in 3 days than there are motorcycle crashes in a whole year.
Deaths? Im not sure. It wouldnt surprise me if the percentage was higher for 2 wheels

/——-/ Yesterday on the local NYC news channel they had a video of a car intentionally sideswiping a biker. The car slammed the biker up against at tree. Must have been doing 40.

You know, there was a time that I would take a couple of spark plugs and put them in my vest pocket. If there was some idiot driver giving me a hassle on the road, I would simply grab the spark plug, hang my arm by my side and drop the spark plug.

At a minimum, it's gonna make a hell of a lot of noise when the car runs over it. Best case scenario? It puts a hole in their oil pan.

------------------------------ you oughta be deported BSailor .

 

[pismoe]

i have a 2008 carbed TRIUMPH T100 Bonneville with proper pipes , low bars and other bolt on performance and cosmetic parts . Its kinda similar to a 1969 or 70 Triumph Bonneville and i have been partial to TRIUMPH and Brit Bikes since my first new high pipe , skid plated , Trial Universal Tired Bonneville in 1969 and then some BSA and Norton topped off with a 1974 Triumph Trident in 73 or 74 . My favorite stock Harley was the 78 [think it was XLCR] . After that and just a few years ago i was liking the XR1200 Sporty street racer but thats since been discontinued i think . Also liked the Tube Framed BUELLS but they went aluminum [monocoque] frame became smaller in size and i am large and then were discontinued a few years ago . -------------- also like the stripped down Shovel heads with low bars and normal 2 shock frame or a Hard Tail .

 

[Cellblock2429]

Why America's Favorite Motorcycle Company Is In a Serious Slide

As pointed out in the linked article, Harley Davidson, while it remains a large and profitable company, is in a death spiral. It's main customers are getting too old to buy its expensive new bikes (the most profitable models), and its relatively cheap smaller bikes do not compare favorably with what is available from other makes.

As I look over their product offerings on the company Website, they look to me like variations on the same theme. There are no adventure bikes, no dirt bikes, no sport bikes. In fact, with the death of the V-Rod, they don't sell anything I would have any interest in owning. And I'm a Boomer.

There used to be a lot of quality problems with H-D, but I believe that situation no longer prevails. Apparently, Gen-X and younger buyers (assuming there are enough of them to sustain the market), simply have no interest in investing large sums of money in a depreciating hulk whose main selling point is the noise it makes. They also seem to fight being part of a "herd mentality," and even if they do like the concept of a "cruiser" they are willing to look at Yamaha ("Star"), Kawasaki, Indian, and other cruisers, and not just H-D.

If they were willing to spend a chunk of their development capital on a new style of bike (for them), what should they build? A sport-touring bike? An Adventure Bike? A Sport Bike? An electric bike?

Parenthetically I will add that in my geographical area (Western Pennsylvania), Harley is still the King. The vast majority of bikes one sees out and about are Harley's, most bike shops are nearly-exclusive with Harley's, and most of the motorcycle community either owns or aspires to own a Harley.

My current ride is a Kawasaki Vaquero, which I believe is equivalent to a Road Glide.

View attachment 187489

/——-/ 5 years ago my friend’s 30 something son bought a new Harley. His dream fulfilled. He rode it home, parked it in his parents garage and never rode it again. He made the payments and owns it outright. It just sits there. It hasn’t been started or serviced since day one. No explanation from the kid. Go figure,

He should have at least run it dry, now there's problems.

Why America's Favorite Motorcycle Company Is In a Serious Slide

As pointed out in the linked article, Harley Davidson, while it remains a large and profitable company, is in a death spiral. It's main customers are getting too old to buy its expensive new bikes (the most profitable models), and its relatively cheap smaller bikes do not compare favorably with what is available from other makes.

As I look over their product offerings on the company Website, they look to me like variations on the same theme. There are no adventure bikes, no dirt bikes, no sport bikes. In fact, with the death of the V-Rod, they don't sell anything I would have any interest in owning. And I'm a Boomer.

There used to be a lot of quality problems with H-D, but I believe that situation no longer prevails. Apparently, Gen-X and younger buyers (assuming there are enough of them to sustain the market), simply have no interest in investing large sums of money in a depreciating hulk whose main selling point is the noise it makes. They also seem to fight being part of a "herd mentality," and even if they do like the concept of a "cruiser" they are willing to look at Yamaha ("Star"), Kawasaki, Indian, and other cruisers, and not just H-D.

If they were willing to spend a chunk of their development capital on a new style of bike (for them), what should they build? A sport-touring bike? An Adventure Bike? A Sport Bike? An electric bike?

Parenthetically I will add that in my geographical area (Western Pennsylvania), Harley is still the King. The vast majority of bikes one sees out and about are Harley's, most bike shops are nearly-exclusive with Harley's, and most of the motorcycle community either owns or aspires to own a Harley.

My current ride is a Kawasaki Vaquero, which I believe is equivalent to a Road Glide.

View attachment 187489

/——-/ 5 years ago my friend’s 30 something son bought a new Harley. His dream fulfilled. He rode it home, parked it in his parents garage and never rode it again. He made the payments and owns it outright. It just sits there. It hasn’t been started or serviced since day one. No explanation from the kid. Go figure,

He should have at least run it dry, now there's problems.

/——-/ No way of telling if he did and my friend is so fed up with it he doesn’t care. In 25 years it will be a barn find

 

[Crepitus]

Harleys cost 3 times what an import does and don't perform or hold up as well. Plus, you know what Eric Cartman calls people who ride them.

 

[DGS49]

Please provide an example of an import motorcycle, arguably equivalent to some HD model, that is one - third the cost. I won't hold my breath.

 

[Crepitus]

Please provide an example of an import motorcycle, arguably equivalent to some HD model, that is one - third the cost. I won't hold my breath.

Kawasaki's least expensive touring bike is under $9k. Harley's bottom of the line touring is over $20k if I recall correctly.

And the Kawasaki is superior as far as maintenance and reliability.

 

[DGS49]

Kawasaki's three lowest priced "touring" motorcycles are all of the Versys variety, which are Adventure bikes, and not traditional touring bikes. They range from $8,999 (650) to $12,999 (1200). Harley makes no analogous bike although a 1200 Sportster "Custom," at $10,999 could be accessorized to be comparable to a Versys (maybe) for a couple thousand.

As for real Touring Bikes, the Kawasaki Vaquero (1700 ) is $16,799, and is comparable to a H-D Street Glide, which sells for $20,999. The Kaw (which I own) is "long in the tooth" as they say (unmodified/unimproved for about 10 years), and thus, the price differential is easily warranted.

Given the better resale value of the Harley's, I don't think their pricing is out of line.

Not that I would ever buy a new one myself.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Kawasaki's three lowest priced "touring" motorcycles are all of the Versys variety, which are Adventure bikes, and not traditional touring bikes. They range from $8,999 (650) to $12,999 (1200). Harley makes no analogous bike although a 1200 Sportster "Custom," at $10,999 could be accessorized to be comparable to a Versys (maybe) for a couple thousand.

As for real Touring Bikes, the Kawasaki Vaquero (1700 ) is $16,799, and is comparable to a H-D Street Glide, which sells for $20,999. The Kaw (which I own) is "long in the tooth" as they say (unmodified/unimproved for about 10 years), and thus, the price differential is easily warranted.

Given the better resale value of the Harley's, I don't think their pricing is out of line.

Not that I would ever buy a new one myself.

You know, you can buy a used 883 Sportster (I got a 91), for less than 4,000 dollars, bore it out to a 1200 (but keep the original piston rods, more torque), drop a decent cam kit into it, outfit it with fat Big Twin tanks, and do a bit of custom looking work from bolt on parts for around 4,000 (about what it cost me to customize mine).

Bike ran like a scalded cat, and went from Amarillo TX to the top of Pike's Peak with an S and S carb and never sputtered ONCE on the whole trip, which included climbing over some of the higher peaks in CO. The dude I was riding with was amazed at how well my bike ran.

Yeah, you can get more comfort, and you can probably do it cheaper on a foreign bike, but when I had my Harley, I really enjoyed all the attention I got from the girls when I pulled up on my bike.

And yeah, loud pipes do save lives. They also piss off neighbors late at night.

 

[DGS49]

I have been riding for many years, and never owned a Harley. NO ONE has ever approached me at a filling station or anywhere else to talk about my bike - some of which were very interesting.

And yet, when I vacation I usually rent an Ultra, and I would say at least HALF the time when I stop for gas or a meal with those Harley's strangers come up to talk to me.

Go figure.

 

[ABikerSailor]

I have been riding for many years, and never owned a Harley. NO ONE has ever approached me at a filling station or anywhere else to talk about my bike - some of which were very interesting.

And yet, when I vacation I usually rent an Ultra, and I would say at least HALF the time when I stop for gas or a meal with those Harley's strangers come up to talk to me.

Go figure.

My friend Dano and I pulled into the rest area at the base of Pike's Peak, and two older women came up to us and asked if we were "bikers".

We said yeah, that's what they call us.

They then asked if they could take a picture with us and our bikes.

I've had that happen more than a few times on my Harley.

 

[Larsky]

After scraping up brains from fellow coworkers and relatives after motorcycle accidents I gave up riding thirty years ago, back when we made choppers in da garage...

People ask me what i will do if i have a bad crash. I say "the same thing i do when i have a car wreck. Fix it or get a new one and be back on the road"

I'm guessing you never had a bad crash.

Nope. Never even laid it down.
I pay too much attention. I dont trust those asshole cage drivers. And fuck squirrels too.

"It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when"

 

[ABikerSailor]

After scraping up brains from fellow coworkers and relatives after motorcycle accidents I gave up riding thirty years ago, back when we made choppers in da garage...

People ask me what i will do if i have a bad crash. I say "the same thing i do when i have a car wreck. Fix it or get a new one and be back on the road"

I'm guessing you never had a bad crash.

Nope. Never even laid it down.
I pay too much attention. I dont trust those asshole cage drivers. And fuck squirrels too.

"It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when"

Exactly, there are 2 kinds of bikers, those who have gone down, and those who are going to go down.

And, you don't always see the idiot in the car until it's too late. Had one time where some idiot chick was texting on her phone and ran a stop sign and I broadsided her at about 25 mph.

Another time, I was coming into Durango CO, heading up to Sturgis when some soccer mom damn near ran me over making a left hand turn. My guardian angels were working overtime, because she missed me by only about 3 inches, and I had already done a dodge maneuver to avoid her. The person riding behind me was more shook up than I was, because she thought for sure I was a goner.

 

[Larsky]

After scraping up brains from fellow coworkers and relatives after motorcycle accidents I gave up riding thirty years ago, back when we made choppers in da garage...

People ask me what i will do if i have a bad crash. I say "the same thing i do when i have a car wreck. Fix it or get a new one and be back on the road"

I'm guessing you never had a bad crash.

Nope. Never even laid it down.
I pay too much attention. I dont trust those asshole cage drivers. And fuck squirrels too.

"It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when"

Exactly, there are 2 kinds of bikers, those who have gone down, and those who are going to go down.

And, you don't always see the idiot in the car until it's too late. Had one time where some idiot chick was texting on her phone and ran a stop sign and I broadsided her at about 25 mph.

Another time, I was coming into Durango CO, heading up to Sturgis when some soccer mom damn near ran me over making a left hand turn. My guardian angels were working overtime, because she missed me by only about 3 inches, and I had already done a dodge maneuver to avoid her. The person riding behind me was more shook up than I was, because she thought for sure I was a goner.

I'm in IL, (no helmet laws) And I'm starting to put the ol' brain bucket on.

 

[ABikerSailor]

People ask me what i will do if i have a bad crash. I say "the same thing i do when i have a car wreck. Fix it or get a new one and be back on the road"

I'm guessing you never had a bad crash.

Nope. Never even laid it down.
I pay too much attention. I dont trust those asshole cage drivers. And fuck squirrels too.

"It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when"

Exactly, there are 2 kinds of bikers, those who have gone down, and those who are going to go down.

And, you don't always see the idiot in the car until it's too late. Had one time where some idiot chick was texting on her phone and ran a stop sign and I broadsided her at about 25 mph.

Another time, I was coming into Durango CO, heading up to Sturgis when some soccer mom damn near ran me over making a left hand turn. My guardian angels were working overtime, because she missed me by only about 3 inches, and I had already done a dodge maneuver to avoid her. The person riding behind me was more shook up than I was, because she thought for sure I was a goner.

I'm in IL, (no helmet laws) And I'm starting to put the ol' brain bucket on.

You know, I quit wearing a helmet the second I crossed into Arkansas when I transferred to Amarillo, and didn't wear one for the next 10 years, because none of the states I rode in had them. Yeah, kinda foolish I know, but I liked the freedom of letting my hair flap in the breeze.

 

[Larsky]

I'm guessing you never had a bad crash.

Nope. Never even laid it down.
I pay too much attention. I dont trust those asshole cage drivers. And fuck squirrels too.

"It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when"

Exactly, there are 2 kinds of bikers, those who have gone down, and those who are going to go down.

And, you don't always see the idiot in the car until it's too late. Had one time where some idiot chick was texting on her phone and ran a stop sign and I broadsided her at about 25 mph.

Another time, I was coming into Durango CO, heading up to Sturgis when some soccer mom damn near ran me over making a left hand turn. My guardian angels were working overtime, because she missed me by only about 3 inches, and I had already done a dodge maneuver to avoid her. The person riding behind me was more shook up than I was, because she thought for sure I was a goner.

I'm in IL, (no helmet laws) And I'm starting to put the ol' brain bucket on.

You know, I quit wearing a helmet the second I crossed into Arkansas when I transferred to Amarillo, and didn't wear one for the next 10 years, because none of the states I rode in had them. Yeah, kinda foolish I know, but I liked the freedom of letting my hair flap in the breeze.

I know. But as I get older....lol. Plus, don't want to see the old lady get hurt.