What is H-D to do?

DGS49

Diamond Member
Apr 12, 2012
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Why America's Favorite Motorcycle Company Is In a Serious Slide

As pointed out in the linked article, Harley Davidson, while it remains a large and profitable company, is in a death spiral. It's main customers are getting too old to buy its expensive new bikes (the most profitable models), and its relatively cheap smaller bikes do not compare favorably with what is available from other makes.

As I look over their product offerings on the company Website, they look to me like variations on the same theme. There are no adventure bikes, no dirt bikes, no sport bikes. In fact, with the death of the V-Rod, they don't sell anything I would have any interest in owning. And I'm a Boomer.

There used to be a lot of quality problems with H-D, but I believe that situation no longer prevails. Apparently, Gen-X and younger buyers (assuming there are enough of them to sustain the market), simply have no interest in investing large sums of money in a depreciating hulk whose main selling point is the noise it makes. They also seem to fight being part of a "herd mentality," and even if they do like the concept of a "cruiser" they are willing to look at Yamaha ("Star"), Kawasaki, Indian, and other cruisers, and not just H-D.

If they were willing to spend a chunk of their development capital on a new style of bike (for them), what should they build? A sport-touring bike? An Adventure Bike? A Sport Bike? An electric bike?

Parenthetically I will add that in my geographical area (Western Pennsylvania), Harley is still the King. The vast majority of bikes one sees out and about are Harley's, most bike shops are nearly-exclusive with Harley's, and most of the motorcycle community either owns or aspires to own a Harley.

My current ride is a Kawasaki Vaquero, which I believe is equivalent to a Road Glide.

upload_2018-4-12_9-25-37.jpeg
 
They ask too much. Too much on EVERYTHING. An oil change kit for my engine and primary, with filter, cost about 80 bucks. I bought LUCAS synthetic and a drag specialties filter for 50.
People dont want to spend 30K on a new bike when they can get one with 30 more HP for 8K. Sure they dont look as good, dont sound as good, and they dont have the name but for 22K less? At what point does HD think that stuff dont matter anymore?
 
Why America's Favorite Motorcycle Company Is In a Serious Slide

As pointed out in the linked article, Harley Davidson, while it remains a large and profitable company, is in a death spiral. It's main customers are getting too old to buy its expensive new bikes (the most profitable models), and its relatively cheap smaller bikes do not compare favorably with what is available from other makes.

As I look over their product offerings on the company Website, they look to me like variations on the same theme. There are no adventure bikes, no dirt bikes, no sport bikes. In fact, with the death of the V-Rod, they don't sell anything I would have any interest in owning. And I'm a Boomer.

There used to be a lot of quality problems with H-D, but I believe that situation no longer prevails. Apparently, Gen-X and younger buyers (assuming there are enough of them to sustain the market), simply have no interest in investing large sums of money in a depreciating hulk whose main selling point is the noise it makes. They also seem to fight being part of a "herd mentality," and even if they do like the concept of a "cruiser" they are willing to look at Yamaha ("Star"), Kawasaki, Indian, and other cruisers, and not just H-D.

If they were willing to spend a chunk of their development capital on a new style of bike (for them), what should they build? A sport-touring bike? An Adventure Bike? A Sport Bike? An electric bike?

Parenthetically I will add that in my geographical area (Western Pennsylvania), Harley is still the King. The vast majority of bikes one sees out and about are Harley's, most bike shops are nearly-exclusive with Harley's, and most of the motorcycle community either owns or aspires to own a Harley.

My current ride is a Kawasaki Vaquero, which I believe is equivalent to a Road Glide.

View attachment 187489
/——-/ 5 years ago my friend’s 30 something son bought a new Harley. His dream fulfilled. He rode it home, parked it in his parents garage and never rode it again. He made the payments and owns it outright. It just sits there. It hasn’t been started or serviced since day one. No explanation from the kid. Go figure,
 
They ask too much. Too much on EVERYTHING. An oil change kit for my engine and primary, with filter, cost about 80 bucks. I bought LUCAS synthetic and a drag specialties filter for 50.
People dont want to spend 30K on a new bike when they can get one with 30 more HP for 8K. Sure they dont look as good, dont sound as good, and they dont have the name but for 22K less? At what point does HD think that stuff dont matter anymore?

If Harley owners enjoy their bikes more than I enjoy my rice burner that cost thousands less, I don't know how they can stand it. I couldn't afford a $25,000 toy that spends all winter taking up space in the garage.
 
Why America's Favorite Motorcycle Company Is In a Serious Slide

As pointed out in the linked article, Harley Davidson, while it remains a large and profitable company, is in a death spiral. It's main customers are getting too old to buy its expensive new bikes (the most profitable models), and its relatively cheap smaller bikes do not compare favorably with what is available from other makes.

As I look over their product offerings on the company Website, they look to me like variations on the same theme. There are no adventure bikes, no dirt bikes, no sport bikes. In fact, with the death of the V-Rod, they don't sell anything I would have any interest in owning. And I'm a Boomer.

There used to be a lot of quality problems with H-D, but I believe that situation no longer prevails. Apparently, Gen-X and younger buyers (assuming there are enough of them to sustain the market), simply have no interest in investing large sums of money in a depreciating hulk whose main selling point is the noise it makes. They also seem to fight being part of a "herd mentality," and even if they do like the concept of a "cruiser" they are willing to look at Yamaha ("Star"), Kawasaki, Indian, and other cruisers, and not just H-D.

If they were willing to spend a chunk of their development capital on a new style of bike (for them), what should they build? A sport-touring bike? An Adventure Bike? A Sport Bike? An electric bike?

Parenthetically I will add that in my geographical area (Western Pennsylvania), Harley is still the King. The vast majority of bikes one sees out and about are Harley's, most bike shops are nearly-exclusive with Harley's, and most of the motorcycle community either owns or aspires to own a Harley.

My current ride is a Kawasaki Vaquero, which I believe is equivalent to a Road Glide.

View attachment 187489
/——-/ 5 years ago my friend’s 30 something son bought a new Harley. His dream fulfilled. He rode it home, parked it in his parents garage and never rode it again. He made the payments and owns it outright. It just sits there. It hasn’t been started or serviced since day one. No explanation from the kid. Go figure,
Abuse!
#LockHimUp
 
After scraping up brains from fellow coworkers and relatives after motorcycle accidents I gave up riding thirty years ago, back when we made choppers in da garage...
 
Why America's Favorite Motorcycle Company Is In a Serious Slide

As pointed out in the linked article, Harley Davidson, while it remains a large and profitable company, is in a death spiral. It's main customers are getting too old to buy its expensive new bikes (the most profitable models), and its relatively cheap smaller bikes do not compare favorably with what is available from other makes.

As I look over their product offerings on the company Website, they look to me like variations on the same theme. There are no adventure bikes, no dirt bikes, no sport bikes. In fact, with the death of the V-Rod, they don't sell anything I would have any interest in owning. And I'm a Boomer.

There used to be a lot of quality problems with H-D, but I believe that situation no longer prevails. Apparently, Gen-X and younger buyers (assuming there are enough of them to sustain the market), simply have no interest in investing large sums of money in a depreciating hulk whose main selling point is the noise it makes. They also seem to fight being part of a "herd mentality," and even if they do like the concept of a "cruiser" they are willing to look at Yamaha ("Star"), Kawasaki, Indian, and other cruisers, and not just H-D.

If they were willing to spend a chunk of their development capital on a new style of bike (for them), what should they build? A sport-touring bike? An Adventure Bike? A Sport Bike? An electric bike?

Parenthetically I will add that in my geographical area (Western Pennsylvania), Harley is still the King. The vast majority of bikes one sees out and about are Harley's, most bike shops are nearly-exclusive with Harley's, and most of the motorcycle community either owns or aspires to own a Harley.

My current ride is a Kawasaki Vaquero, which I believe is equivalent to a Road Glide.

View attachment 187489
Not many young riders are interested in the Harley experience which is more like cruising in an easy chair

Also, Indian is re-entering their market
 
I never wanted to shell out the kinda dough that Harley wants for it's product, I can barely stand the prices I have to pay for a tractor and implements...
 
After scraping up brains from fellow coworkers and relatives after motorcycle accidents I gave up riding thirty years ago, back when we made choppers in da garage...
People ask me what i will do if i have a bad crash. I say "the same thing i do when i have a car wreck. Fix it or get a new one and be back on the road"
 
Good. Motorcycle riders are assholes. Did you know they make a relatively safe mode of transportation with four wheels? Jackasses.
 
Good. Motorcycle riders are assholes. Did you know they make a relatively safe mode of transportation with four wheels? Jackasses.
There are more automobile accidents in 3 days than there are motorcycle crashes in a whole year.
Deaths? Im not sure. It wouldnt surprise me if the percentage was higher for 2 wheels
 
After scraping up brains from fellow coworkers and relatives after motorcycle accidents I gave up riding thirty years ago, back when we made choppers in da garage...
People ask me what i will do if i have a bad crash. I say "the same thing i do when i have a car wreck. Fix it or get a new one and be back on the road"

I'm guessing you never had a bad crash.
 
Good. Motorcycle riders are assholes. Did you know they make a relatively safe mode of transportation with four wheels? Jackasses.
There are more automobile accidents in 3 days than there are motorcycle crashes in a whole year.
Deaths? Im not sure. It wouldnt surprise me if the percentage was higher for 2 wheels
/——-/ Yesterday on the local NYC news channel they had a video of a car intentionally sideswiping a biker. The car slammed the biker up against at tree. Must have been doing 40.
 
After scraping up brains from fellow coworkers and relatives after motorcycle accidents I gave up riding thirty years ago, back when we made choppers in da garage...
People ask me what i will do if i have a bad crash. I say "the same thing i do when i have a car wreck. Fix it or get a new one and be back on the road"

I'm guessing you never had a bad crash.
Nope. Never even laid it down.
I pay too much attention. I dont trust those asshole cage drivers. And fuck squirrels too.
 
After scraping up brains from fellow coworkers and relatives after motorcycle accidents I gave up riding thirty years ago, back when we made choppers in da garage...
People ask me what i will do if i have a bad crash. I say "the same thing i do when i have a car wreck. Fix it or get a new one and be back on the road"

I'm guessing you never had a bad crash.
Nope. Never even laid it down.
I pay too much attention. I dont trust those asshole cage drivers. And fuck squirrels too.

That's OK. Sooner or later you will see a car coming up from a side street. They will stop at the corner. You will look directly at them and make eye contact. Then at the last possible second, they will pull out in front of you causing you to hit them, totaling your bike and breaking your arm and 2 ribs. As you fly across the top of the car, you'll look down into the windshield right below you, and think. So this is what a bad crash is like. Later, you will be amused when the goofy bitch that just ran out in front of you says "Where did you come from? I looked both ways, but I didn't see anybody."
 
After scraping up brains from fellow coworkers and relatives after motorcycle accidents I gave up riding thirty years ago, back when we made choppers in da garage...
People ask me what i will do if i have a bad crash. I say "the same thing i do when i have a car wreck. Fix it or get a new one and be back on the road"

I'm guessing you never had a bad crash.
Nope. Never even laid it down.
I pay too much attention. I dont trust those asshole cage drivers. And fuck squirrels too.

That's OK. Sooner or later you will see a car coming up from a side street. They will stop at the corner. You will look directly at them and make eye contact. Then at the last possible second, they will pull out in front of you causing you to hit them, totaling your bike and breaking your arm and 2 ribs. As you fly across the top of the car, you'll look down into the windshield right below you, and think. So this is what a bad crash is like. Later, you will be amused when the goofy bitch that just ran out in front of you says "Where did you come from? I looked both ways, but I didn't see anybody."
suzuki-kizashi-bubble-wrap-suit-600-12426.jpg
 
A similar thing is happening with Gibson Guitars.

Their high end stuff is way too expensive and young people just aren't picking up the guitar anymore.

Which leads me to the question:

\What do young people do these days other than play video games and get tattoos?
 
A similar thing is happening with Gibson Guitars.

Their high end stuff is way too expensive and young people just aren't picking up the guitar anymore.

Which leads me to the question:

\What do young people do these days other than play video games and get tattoos?
012918_tidepods_juliamoses-900x596.jpg
 
I hadn't intended this to be a discussion about the wisdom of riding a motorcycle. For people who ride, the "safety" argument is not sufficiently strong to counter the enjoyment/freedom of riding. Of course, it sometimes happens that a crash or two can change one's mind.

Cost is obviously a factor. You can get a nice car for less than cost of a well-equipped Harley. Many people start riding with the thought that eventually they will be able to afford a Harley. But I think H-D takes great pains to offer financing packages that make the cost as painless as possible.
 
They ask too much. Too much on EVERYTHING. An oil change kit for my engine and primary, with filter, cost about 80 bucks. I bought LUCAS synthetic and a drag specialties filter for 50.
People dont want to spend 30K on a new bike when they can get one with 30 more HP for 8K. Sure they dont look as good, dont sound as good, and they dont have the name but for 22K less? At what point does HD think that stuff dont matter anymore?

You know, one of the best things I ever did when I owned a Harley was to take it to a dealer OTHER than an authorized Harley dealer.

I had a wreck on my Sportster one time (some idiot ran a stop sign and I broadsided them), and when I took it to the shop (not the Harley one), he looked at it and told me that if I went with aftermarket parts rather than genuine Harley parts, not only would it be cheaper to fix, but I would also get better performance.

He was right. If you have a Harley and need parts, go to after market places, not the Harley shops. Matter of fact, an S and S carb is actually cheaper than a HD carb, and it works a hell of a lot better and is easier to tune.

The only reason I go to Harley shops anymore is to buy t-shirts.
 

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