What is feminism today?

[task0778]

Tell that to the WNBA and the LPGA. I dont think they are aware that women sports are dead.

In view of today's political environment, would the WNBA or LPGA deny a Trans person the chance to compete? I ain't too sure which way they'd go, but if they did what would that mean for women's sports?

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

I will also add - kudos to folks like AOC and other progressives who put front and center certain issues where our country lags behind others in terms of women. One of those is in childcare and paid family leave. Women were disproportionately hit by the job loss during the pandemic at many times the rate of men. With schools closed it fell on women primarily to educate and commit to in home childcare. They are still in the labor market at rates well below that of pre-pandemic levels. That actually has an effect on our overall economy.

Outside childcare is not back to the pre-pandemic levels. Long waiting lists, and in households now financially strapped - harder to afford.

Correct.

Access to affordable childcare is beneficial not only to working women but to working families and the nation as a whole.

 

[Circe]

Feminism in America, a traditionally leftist view, has changed, a lot over the past 70 years, and I think it's time we women re-evaluate what it means to be a feminist TODAY and what are and are not doing or what we should be doing. It's been accused of being a white elitist movement, and I have to agree there is an element of truth in that statement. It's also been accused of being out of touch with many women in America and elsewhere. There is truth there as well, at least if you go by the most vocal and politically active elements.

What does feminism mean today? Acknowledging something that, decades ago would have been sacrilege. We, as women, really are the guardians of family, culture, education, community strength and, often unacknowledged - diplomacy over war. IMO (and this is controversial and maybe even sexist) - women are more invested in the long term than men: climate change, global health issues, long term consequences that shape the world their children will inhabit. Feminism needs to move beyond equal rights for largely white corporate American women and needs to recognize that women in all walks of life are part of the sisterhood, regardless of politics, ethnicity, race, religion, nationality. Our outlook needs to focus inward to the community level and outward on a global scale. What is happening to women elsewhere in the world?

We used to have to fight for recognition that we were the equal of men in any job because at the time that was a battle of fundamental rights (and by and large we are equal) but in doing so we also had to deny some fundamental differences and those differences are important in what we should imo be focusing on in feminism.

This is my list:

First off, the global view - supporting our women everywhere and it's fundamental underpinning, freedom of choice and individual autonomy, everywhere in the world. The right to safety from violence, the right to determine whether or not to bear children, the right to an education, the right to choose freely who they will partner with. The right to equal treatment under their justice system. The right to free movement. The right to medical care. All of these things are denied to women in various parts of the world, because they are women.

Second, the community level. What's the use of shattering the glass ceiling when you have to raise your children in a drug and violence infested neighborhood, always afraid the streets will seduce your child or he or she will become another random victim of violence? What's the point if you don't have clean drinking water, or your daughter gets married off at 14, or her denied an education beyond primary school? Feminism shouldn't be looking down on the grandmother who isn't out there in corporate America but is instead investing her energy in family, and maybe she is the primary force behind pushing for an education in her grandchildren so they can get out of the trap, and maybe she is the one providing free baby sitting for a single mother with an erratic schedule who is also trying to go to school. There are a lot of hidden things women do that get looked down upon but are in reality feminism and a quite strength.

Something to think about - what is feminism?

I would be curious to hear other points of view.

You seem to be promoting the idea that white women should be doing feminism by proxy: doing it all FOR colored women, and instead of them. I don't think that is how it works: people have to take what they need themselves, not play the victim and get others to do it for them. If black women view certain things as feminist issues, let them get on with working on it. Feminism does not have to march in lockstep.

I think people in general should stand for themselves, and so I am ashamed of the white, upper middle class girls on that swim team who had a chance to strike from participation in team sports when one of their team was a man. But they gave up their chance to do something really useful for women --- I think they could have stopped this evil trend cold for everyone, so shame on them.

I think third wave feminism went crazy --- even a well-read normal woman can't understand their jargon --- and disappeared into Woke and nuttiness and lesbianism and thus lost most women. Maybe it was a felt lack of issues, probably it was getting munged into the general far-left campus craziness. It has gone nowhere and can't communicate.

A fourth wave is developing on the strange, creepy issue of men wanting to turn into women (I am guessing the reverse is a fad that will fade pretty quickly, a female teenage mental disease the same as cutting and bulimia and anorexia, which are fashions in psychosis that pass) and that IS a feminist issue, and some women have already stepped forward to deal with it, good for them. So the incoherent and transgressive third wave changes into a much more generally popular fourth wave which fortunately has appeal to a lot of men, too.

Another general issue is abortion, always and forever a feminist issue we have with us. I don't recall you mentioned it, but about 40-leven men here did, of course. Feminism IMO started as and has always been and must always be a movement to the cost of men and inevitably they hate it. What we fight for and get we take from them, and abortion is one of these: they want women enslaved by law, at least, to raise their illegitimate get all our lives --- many have no other reproduction strategy except to compel women to do that. So far we are winning, but this society is more into churn than change, and I put more faith in the general trend of all policies being anti-natalist for the last century or so (because of overpopulation, a sort of incoherent general movement away from world-overwhelming births) than I do in the collective power of women to keep forever what we have won so far. Particularly if there is civil breakdown, which seems possible.

 

[Circe]

While women become more and more unhappy, men and masculinity are essentially demonized by cultural Marxists (mainly feminists) as “toxic.” This propaganda campaign has been so successful that men in many first world nations are beginning to pursue, for all intents and purposes, an asexual lifestyle safer from collectivist intrusions and judgments...

...As if the psychological browbeating were not enough, the chemistry of the male body is also being warped by estrogen-imitating chemicals present in industrial products, plastics and soy-based foods. A decline in normal levels of male testosterone and an ever increasing hormonal feminization of younger generations of men and boys is becoming prevalent..."

Awwww, poor baby ---

 

[john doe 101]

In view of today's political environment, would the WNBA or LPGA deny a Trans person the chance to compete? I ain't too sure which way they'd go, but if they did what would that mean for women's sports?

Who cares? Your hypothetical situation is so uncommon why bother thinking about it. It's only brought up by people like tucker to get their right wing base into another culture war. Deal with it when it comes up.

 

[Natural Citizen]

Awwww, poor baby ---

Excuse me? What do you mean? Explain, please. Thanks!

 

[john doe 101]

Womens swimming, males wins. Female track and field, males win.

As usual, you ignore reality.

you're fucking stupid. it's so uncommon. It sure does get you all riled up though.

 

[Circe]

All the low hanging fruit were gathered years ago by feminism.

Used to be all the jobs open to women were teachers, nurses and secretaries.

Now, a woman can do pretty much anything and they do.

Not sure what's left for women really.

Men still don't help out around the house enough. That's something that deserves focus.

Nice post! I like your first line a lot: that's a good way to say it, that we gathered all the low-hanging fruit already. But things constantly change and Covid has changed a lot of things ---- surprise, Moms STILL have basic responsibility for child care! And this unnerving business about men wanting to be women now. It IS obliterating the whole category "female," so feminists need to deal with it, drive it back into its hole. It has a hole: male prostitution and fashions in expression of psychosis.

 

[Circe]

Bottom line--it is one more divisive movement. Each one of these special interest movements are. People are losing sight of the fact that ALL people share this planet and the ONLY movement should be a humanist movement with strict equality at its center. Governments cannot make special accommodations for every group who feels they are not treated fairly.

You should tell women that and see if you can get us to follow your orders.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

As a Traditionalist, Conservative Male it seems to me that the modern feminist movement is largely about removing all forms and ideals of difference between Men and women. Femininity, homemaking, child-rearing, etc… are looked down upon in favor of chasing a career. Wife don is totally out the window.

Just my two, misogynistic cents.

Nagocracy

It's an upper-class scheme enabling richgirls to inherit without merit their Daddies' positions, just like their brothers always could. This doubles the power of Birth-Class Supremacy, a historical first.

In order to make this unnatural re-structuring possible, they have to humiliate working-class males by making their women the Bitter Half instead of the Better Half.

Their fathers set this up by turning American males into wimps unattractive to women, which drives the normal woman into Feminism.

 

[Natural Citizen]

you're fucking stupid.

Well that's not a very nice thing to say to someone.

Particularly given the factual nature of the content provided by the poster to whom you responded.

 

[Concerned American]

Nice post! I like your first line a lot: that's a good way to say it, that we gathered all the low-hanging fruit already. But things constantly change and Covid has changed a lot of things ---- surprise, Moms STILL have basic responsibility for child care! And this unnerving business about men wanting to be women now. It IS obliterating the whole category "female," so feminists need to deal with it, drive it back into its hole. It has a hole: male prostitution and fashions in expression of psychosis.

And the number three most successful Jeopardy champion is a woman, LMAO, a trans woman. You can't make this shit up.

 

[Concerned American]

You should tell women that and see if you can get us to follow your orders.

Please tell me where you read in my post that I said anything about anyone following anyone's orders. It seems to me, you are adverse to being human with the same "equal" rights as any other human. If you did not understand that from my post, I would suggest you take a remedial course in reading comprehension.

 

[Natural Citizen]

Womens swimming, males wins. Female track and field, males win.

If it's of any consolation, we did just witness a male, who transitioned to a female, defeated in an ivy league swim meet by a female who is transitioning to a male.

Who is Iszac Henig? Female trans swimmer Lia Thomas DEFEATED by trans male competitor

'A man just crushed the women's team,' the parent of a female swimmer from UPenn noted after Iszac Henig's win, following the Lia Thomas controversy

meaww.com

It's the darndest thing.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Feminism in America, a traditionally leftist view, has changed, a lot over the past 70 years, and I think it's time we women re-evaluate what it means to be a feminist TODAY and what are and are not doing or what we should be doing. It's been accused of being a white elitist movement, and I have to agree there is an element of truth in that statement. It's also been accused of being out of touch with many women in America and elsewhere. There is truth there as well, at least if you go by the most vocal and politically active elements.

What does feminism mean today? Acknowledging something that, decades ago would have been sacrilege. We, as women, really are the guardians of family, culture, education, community strength and, often unacknowledged - diplomacy over war. IMO (and this is controversial and maybe even sexist) - women are more invested in the long term than men: climate change, global health issues, long term consequences that shape the world their children will inhabit. Feminism needs to move beyond equal rights for largely white corporate American women and needs to recognize that women in all walks of life are part of the sisterhood, regardless of politics, ethnicity, race, religion, nationality. Our outlook needs to focus inward to the community level and outward on a global scale. What is happening to women elsewhere in the world?

We used to have to fight for recognition that we were the equal of men in any job because at the time that was a battle of fundamental rights (and by and large we are equal) but in doing so we also had to deny some fundamental differences and those differences are important in what we should imo be focusing on in feminism.

This is my list:

First off, the global view - supporting our women everywhere and it's fundamental underpinning, freedom of choice and individual autonomy, everywhere in the world. The right to safety from violence, the right to determine whether or not to bear children, the right to an education, the right to choose freely who they will partner with. The right to equal treatment under their justice system. The right to free movement. The right to medical care. All of these things are denied to women in various parts of the world, because they are women.

Second, the community level. What's the use of shattering the glass ceiling when you have to raise your children in a drug and violence infested neighborhood, always afraid the streets will seduce your child or he or she will become another random victim of violence? What's the point if you don't have clean drinking water, or your daughter gets married off at 14, or her denied an education beyond primary school? Feminism shouldn't be looking down on the grandmother who isn't out there in corporate America but is instead investing her energy in family, and maybe she is the primary force behind pushing for an education in her grandchildren so they can get out of the trap, and maybe she is the one providing free baby sitting for a single mother with an erratic schedule who is also trying to go to school. There are a lot of hidden things women do that get looked down upon but are in reality feminism and a quite strength.

Something to think about - what is feminism?

I would be curious to hear other points of view.

It’s important to address what feminism isn’t.

Feminism is not hostile to men.

It is not ‘anti-family.’

It is not hostile to having children or motherhood.

It is not hostile to ‘family values.’

It is not hostile to Christianity or religion.

It is not ‘communism,’ ‘fascism,’ ‘socialism,’ or any other ‘ism.’

It is women appropriately seeking to realize their comprehensive civil liberties and human rights.

 

[Natural Citizen]

It’s important to address what feminism isn’t.

Feminism is not hostile to men.

It is not ‘anti-family.’

It is not hostile to having children or motherhood.

It is not hostile to ‘family values.’

It is not hostile to Christianity or religion.

It is not ‘communism,’ ‘fascism,’ ‘socialism,’ or any other ‘ism.’

It is women appropriately seeking to realize their comprehensive civil liberties and human rights.

Whether it is or isn't, if you're going to make claims like these, you're going to be expected to support them. It's, after all, the nature of functional debate. So, please support them.


So...

Feminism is not hostile to men.

Why not?

It is not ‘anti-family.’

Why not?

It is not hostile to having children or motherhood.

Why not?

It is not hostile to ‘family values.’

Why not?

It is not hostile to Christianity or religion.

Why not?

It is not ‘communism,’ ‘fascism,’ ‘socialism,’ or any other ‘ism.’

Why not?

It is women appropriately seeking to realize their comprehensive civil liberties and human rights.

How so? In what way?


We'll wait.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Natural Citizen]

Hm. Well, heck. Seems like the thread all a sudden up and died. Scwewy.

Ah well. I'm going to have an apple and browse through the automotive forum elsewhere on the web.

You can come back out now, Clayton. It's okay.

 

[Natural Citizen]

Psych!!! Raaaaar!!!

Heh heh. No, I'm just kidding.

Have a good night, all.

 

[Anathema]

's an upper-class scheme enabling richgirls to inherit without merit their Daddies' positions, just like their brothers always could

What I see a lot more is the mothers who either ended up in domesticity or who weren’t able to shatter the glass ceiling pushing their daughters to be everything they never ended up being.

 

[JOSweetHeart]

To me, feminism is something that is still alive today through those who are not trying to alter the way that certain things are to be.

God bless you always!!!

Holly