What is "Fair" Public School Funding?

[SweetSue92]

I wouldn’t call what you do a profession

What real teachers do is a profession. Teaching valuable life skills is a profession.

You are teaching a hobby

That you would denigrate Teachers who teach English as a Second Language while defending Art and Music education is laughable.

If you believe this, you're not a Democrat

If you do not believe this but are just saying it to get to me, congrats. I don't care what you think, but you're truly a worm with a hollowed-out soul.

Pick one.

 

[Seymour Flops]

Public school funding would never be an issue if they were providing the same quality education that they used to up until the mid sixties. They have since then become much more expensive and much less effective at preparing students for jobs, higher education and adult life.

If they had become more expensive, but continued to provide a decent education, few would squawk. Paying them excessive taxes so they can marginalize math and science in favor of a woke agenda, is not acceptable to normal people.

 

[Unkotare]

And they are an expense. Why should Americans pay for non-Americans invading our borders to learn English on our dime?

Once AGAIN, the majority of ESL students in the US were born in the US.

 

[Unkotare]

......

Do you want to tell your own people the arts are inconsequential?

DO IT

Is language "consequential"?

 

[Seymour Flops]

Once AGAIN, the majority of ESL students in the US were born in the US.

Yes, that is a bad trend. When I was a kid in the seventies, most Hispanic kids I knew had accents, even if they were born in the U.S. That was because their parents learned English when they moved to the States and then taught it to their kids accent and all.

Now, in my junior high, the ESL or EB as we now call it, speak English with no accent. But their comprehension and vocabulary are very poor. That's because they came to pre-k speaking no English at all, their parent having not bothered to learn it. We make it easy for non-English speakers to apply for welfare in their native language so why learn it. Previous immigrants learned English for job opportunities, but welfare seekers get the same benefits regardless of whether they speak the language.

Just out of curiosity, Unkotare, why would any teacher disagree with this:

 

[Unkotare]

Yes, that is a bad trend. When I was a kid in the seventies, most Hispanic kids I knew had accents, even if they were born in the U.S. That was because their parents learned English when they moved to the States and then taught it to their kids accent and all.

...

Nope. Today more kids actually go to school and are included in education.

 

[Seymour Flops]

Nope. Today more kids actually go to school and are included in education.

"Nope" what? That is completely unresponsive to the post it replies to.

 

[Unkotare]

Nope, recent arrivals in the 70s didn't just decide to learn English and teach it to their children. The process of acquiring a new language is the same now as it was then. More students are actually included in education today than in the 70s (or any time prior). Spending US education funds to educate US citizens is NOT a "waste." Quite the contrary.

 

[rightwinger]

If you believe this, you're not a Democrat

If you do not believe this but are just saying it to get to me, congrats. I don't care what you think, but you're truly a worm with a hollowed-out soul.

Pick one.

Nothing wrong with learning about Art or Music if that interests you……just not worth wasting valuable educational dollars on it.
If you are able to soak public money to support yourself…..good for you

 

[Seymour Flops]

Nope, recent arrivals in the 70s didn't just decide to learn English and teach it to their children.

Completely counterfactual.

The process of acquiring a new language is the same now as it was then.

There is not only one process of acquiring a new language. In the seventies, I saw with my own eyes that parents learned English and taught it to their kids. Now I see with my own eyes, that they much more often don't bother to learn English and rely on schools for their children's learning of English.

More students are actually included in education today than in the 70s (or any time prior). Spending US education funds to educate US citizens is NOT a "waste." Quite the contrary.

That's what I mean by unresponsive. I never said that spending US education funds to educate US citizens is a waste. Nor is spending US education funds to educate kids who are in the country illegally. They aren't going back, so better they be educated. You are arguing against a position I never took.

I think that your thumbs down and your "nope" just indicate that you don't like me speaking the truth.

 

[rightwinger]

Nope, recent arrivals in the 70s didn't just decide to learn English and teach it to their children. The process of acquiring a new language is the same now as it was then. More students are actually included in education today than in the 70s (or any time prior). Spending US education funds to educate US citizens is NOT a "waste." Quite the contrary.

It is a romantic fantasy that……My ancestors learned the language as soon as they came over while todays immigrants are too lazy.
The reality is that those immigrants lived in ethnic communities……Little Italy, Chinatown, Germantown, Jewish communities where the native language was spoken and their former culture was maintained.

 

[rightwinger]

There is not only one process of acquiring a new language. In the seventies, I saw with my own eyes that parents learned English and taught it to their kids.

I saw just the opposite with the kids learning English and acting as interpreters for their parents.
The kids were immersed in English in school, by interacting with other kids, by watching TV
Parents are more isolated and adults don’t pick up new languages as well as kids do

 

[bodecea]

Wait---

Are you saying importing a bunch of students who don't speak English is a liability? Or is an expense?

WHOA

An expense....as it has always been. Don't you know why the Northeast has a large number of parochial schools?

 

[Unkotare]

Completely counterfactual.
...

Completely accurate.

 

[bodecea]

I saw just the opposite with the kids learning English and acting as interpreters for their parents.
The kids were immersed in English in school, by interacting with other kids, by watching TV
Parents are more isolated and adults don’t pick up new languages as well as kids do

The kids are the 2nd generation.....All non-English speaking immigrants go thru the same cycle: Immigrants have pidgin English....next generation has good street English and street original language...3rd generation has fluent English and loses original language unless they specifically work to keep it. Every.single.time.

 

[rightwinger]

An expense....as it has always been. Don't you know why the Northeast has a large number of parochial schools?

Teaching Non-English speakers is an investment
Makes them more productive citizens

 

[bodecea]

It is a romantic fantasy that……My ancestors learned the language as soon as they came over while todays immigrants are too lazy.
The reality is that those immigrants lived in ethnic communities……Little Italy, Chinatown, Germantown, Jewish communities where the native language was spoken and their former culture was maintained.

If you go to NYC or Boston or Philidelphia, you still see that.

 

[Seymour Flops]

It is a romantic fantasy that……My ancestors learned the language as soon as they came over while todays immigrants are too lazy.
The reality is that those immigrants lived in ethnic communities……Little Italy, Chinatown, Germantown, Jewish communities where the native language was spoken and their former culture was maintained.

They maintained their former culture while learning English so they could work and feed their families. Today's immigrants don't feel the need to bother with that.

They also expressed love and gratitute for their new country. They might fly Italian flags or drink green beer, but it was in the spirit of "I'm this kind of American," not "I hate America."

I wish more Americans would maintain their knowledge of the language of their Grandparents. As diverse as we are, we should never have trouble finding loyal Americans who are fluent in languages other than English for the diplomatic and intelligence services.

 

[Unkotare]

...

There is not only one process of acquiring a new language. In the seventies, I saw with my own eyes that parents learned English and taught it to their kids. Now I see with my own eyes, that they much more often don't bother to learn English and rely on schools for their children's learning of English.
...

Wrong and wrong.

 

[rightwinger]

They maintained their former culture while learning English so they could work and feed their families.

They also expressed love and gratitute for their new country. They might fly Italian flags or drink green beer, but it was in the spirit of "I'm this kind of American," not "I hate America."

I wish more Americans would maintain their knowledge of the language of their Grandparents. As diverse as we are, we should never have trouble finding loyal Americans who are fluent in languages other than English for the diplomatic and intelligence services.

More revisionist history

Those immigrants developed marginal English skills. Enough to perform the menial labor jobs they were offered.

They loved their new country but identified as Italians, Irish, Poles, Germans and belonged to ethnic clubs and societies