What History Tells Us About (Tea) Party Revolts

The T

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From the LINK:

In modern history - to me, that means during my lifetime - political upheavals have generally been followed by the out party going too far . . . Republicans too far to the right, Democrats too far to the left.

Here's what I mean:

In 1960, after John F. Kennedy's election and subsequent death, Lyndon Johnson came to power and caused a sea change in American politics. He launched the Great Society programs, and passed the 1964 Civil Rights bill.

Republicans responded by throwing out the leaders of their own party who had controlled their party for years and nominated Barry Goldwater - a good man but who was far to the right of the Republican establishment.

He lost in a landslide.

After Nixon's sea change election, Democrats purged their party of their long time leaders - even barred them from the 1972 convention - and nominated George McGovern, another good man but who was far to the left of his party.

Another disaster.

Once Nixon resigned and caused another sea change, Democrats pushed aside mainstream leaders and chose outsider Jimmy Carter.

He lasted one term.

Which brings us to Barack Obama, the sea change he brought to American politics, and in its wake the rise of the Tea Party and its demand to purge the Republican Party of its old-line leaders.

It's not my business to advise political parties, and I'm sure they know more about politics than I do.

But if I were a Republican strategist, I might think about recent history and what lessons it might offer.

________________________________

History is Doomed to repeat? If I read this correctly? YOU think the tea party thinking of 'Voting the Incumbents out' is doomed to failure?

While what the author addresses are candidates for POTUS?

I'd be interested to see the effects upon the Legislature...Or do we already KNOW the outcome of that...?

I think the author misses the POINT and addresses just ONE of many issues as to what we see NOW.
 

rightwinger

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Harding, Coolige, Hoover= Great Depression and Republicans out of power for 20 years

George Bush= More of the same

Nuff said
 

Papa Jack

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I've attended a few Tea Party rallies, and I'll tell you the biggest problem I have with the "movement." At the meetings I saw first hand, the group that made up the largest number of attendees were old coots like myself. It would not be as colorful a term as "Tea Party," but I think a more appropriate name might be "AARP Senior Discount Movement!"

I have to be honest and admit it embarrassed me to see my fellow senior citizens out there supporting candidates who vowed they would keep increasing the quality of life for us old farts at the expense of our kids, grandkids, and great grandkids.

We seniors are the most affluent segment of society, and we pay, by a wide margin, the least amount of taxes. Perhaps someone can explain to me why the income I earn from capital gains, while sitting on my butt, is taxed at a much lower level than that of my granddaughter and her husband, who have two small children.

My granddaughter worked mighty hard to get a good job. She is the occupational therapist for our local county school system. However, because of budget cuts, our school system has been forced to impose furlough days for the workers in the local educational system, which amounts to to several thousand dollars in lost salary to her family.

At the same time, while we are facing these budgetary shortfalls in education, my state legislature pushed through a last minute bill near the end of its last session which said no earnings from retirement earning would face ANY State Taxes! Am I the only one who thinks this is lunacy?
 
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VaYank5150

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I've attended a few Tea Party rallies, and I'll tell you the biggest problem I have with the "movement." At the meetings I saw first hand, the group that made up the largest number of attendees were old coots like myself. It would not be as colorful a term as "Tea Party," but I think a more appropriate name might be "AARP Senior Discount Movement!"

I have to be honest and admit it embarrassed me to see my fellow senior citizens out there supporting candidates who vowed they would keep increasing the quality of life for us old farts at the expense of our kids, grandkids, and great grandkids.

We seniors are the most affluent segment of society, and we pay, by a wide margin, the least amount of taxes. Perhaps someone can explain to me why the income I earn from capital gains, while sitting on my butt, is taxed at a much lower level than that of my granddaughter and her husband, who have two small children.

My granddaughter worked mighty hard to get a good job. She is the occupational therapist for our local county school system. However, because of budget cuts, our school system has been forced to impose furlough days for the workers in the local educational system, which amounts to to several thousand dollars in lost salary to her family.

At the same time, while we are facing these budgetary shortfalls in education, my state legislature pushed through a last minute bill near the end of its last session which said no earnings from retirement earning would face ANY State Taxes! Am I the only one who thinks this is lunacy?
It appears that you are new here, Papa Jack. Please don't take it personally when all of the "conservatives/real Americans/Patrits/Tea Baggers" begin throwing you under the bus for not drinking their Koolaid.
 

Gremlin-USA

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We seniors are the most affluent segment of society, and we pay, by a wide margin, the least amount of taxes. Perhaps someone can explain to me why the income I earn from capital gains, while sitting on my butt, is taxed at a much lower level than that of my granddaughter and her husband, who have two small children.
I would think someone over 65 should pay Less Tax, after all the probably worked 40+ years and paid a lot of Taxes, after a long life of Paying Taxes do you not think they deserve some breaks in life?

But you are seriously worried about the fact you pay less tax than you granddaughter, I am sure the IRS would welcome you sending in a check to them for a few thousand extra.
 

amrchaos

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From the LINK:

In modern history - to me, that means during my lifetime - political upheavals have generally been followed by the out party going too far . . . Republicans too far to the right, Democrats too far to the left.

Here's what I mean:

In 1960, after John F. Kennedy's election and subsequent death, Lyndon Johnson came to power and caused a sea change in American politics. He launched the Great Society programs, and passed the 1964 Civil Rights bill.

Republicans responded by throwing out the leaders of their own party who had controlled their party for years and nominated Barry Goldwater - a good man but who was far to the right of the Republican establishment.

He lost in a landslide.

After Nixon's sea change election, Democrats purged their party of their long time leaders - even barred them from the 1972 convention - and nominated George McGovern, another good man but who was far to the left of his party.

Another disaster.

Once Nixon resigned and caused another sea change, Democrats pushed aside mainstream leaders and chose outsider Jimmy Carter.

He lasted one term.

Which brings us to Barack Obama, the sea change he brought to American politics, and in its wake the rise of the Tea Party and its demand to purge the Republican Party of its old-line leaders.

It's not my business to advise political parties, and I'm sure they know more about politics than I do.

But if I were a Republican strategist, I might think about recent history and what lessons it might offer.

________________________________

History is Doomed to repeat? If I read this correctly? YOU think the tea party thinking of 'Voting the Incumbents out' is doomed to failure?

While what the author addresses are candidates for POTUS?

I'd be interested to see the effects upon the Legislature...Or do we already KNOW the outcome of that...?

I think the author misses the POINT and addresses just ONE of many issues as to what we see NOW.


It seems that you implied some advice--Buckley conservatism--not Bircher extremism.

Clinton moderation--not Carter Libralism.

That was a very nice seranade there, buddy. Unfortunately, you are singing to the choir!!
 

The T

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From the LINK:

In modern history - to me, that means during my lifetime - political upheavals have generally been followed by the out party going too far . . . Republicans too far to the right, Democrats too far to the left.

Here's what I mean:

In 1960, after John F. Kennedy's election and subsequent death, Lyndon Johnson came to power and caused a sea change in American politics. He launched the Great Society programs, and passed the 1964 Civil Rights bill.

Republicans responded by throwing out the leaders of their own party who had controlled their party for years and nominated Barry Goldwater - a good man but who was far to the right of the Republican establishment.

He lost in a landslide.

After Nixon's sea change election, Democrats purged their party of their long time leaders - even barred them from the 1972 convention - and nominated George McGovern, another good man but who was far to the left of his party.

Another disaster.

Once Nixon resigned and caused another sea change, Democrats pushed aside mainstream leaders and chose outsider Jimmy Carter.

He lasted one term.

Which brings us to Barack Obama, the sea change he brought to American politics, and in its wake the rise of the Tea Party and its demand to purge the Republican Party of its old-line leaders.

It's not my business to advise political parties, and I'm sure they know more about politics than I do.

But if I were a Republican strategist, I might think about recent history and what lessons it might offer.

________________________________

History is Doomed to repeat? If I read this correctly? YOU think the tea party thinking of 'Voting the Incumbents out' is doomed to failure?

While what the author addresses are candidates for POTUS?

I'd be interested to see the effects upon the Legislature...Or do we already KNOW the outcome of that...?

I think the author misses the POINT and addresses just ONE of many issues as to what we see NOW.


It seems that you implied some advice--Buckley conservatism--not Bircher extremism.

Clinton moderation--not Carter Libralism.

That was a very nice seranade there, buddy. Unfortunately, you are singing to the choir!!
Astute. And I think we're going to see some unprecidented uheaval. This time in what we face is going to affect TWO branches of Government presently in power. And NOT just due to a sitting POTUS as the Author seems to suggest.

We've already seen coming attractions.
 

amrchaos

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I've attended a few Tea Party rallies, and I'll tell you the biggest problem I have with the "movement." At the meetings I saw first hand, the group that made up the largest number of attendees were old coots like myself. It would not be as colorful a term as "Tea Party," but I think a more appropriate name might be "AARP Senior Discount Movement!"

I have to be honest and admit it embarrassed me to see my fellow senior citizens out there supporting candidates who vowed they would keep increasing the quality of life for us old farts at the expense of our kids, grandkids, and great grandkids.

We seniors are the most affluent segment of society, and we pay, by a wide margin, the least amount of taxes. Perhaps someone can explain to me why the income I earn from capital gains, while sitting on my butt, is taxed at a much lower level than that of my granddaughter and her husband, who have two small children.

My granddaughter worked mighty hard to get a good job. She is the occupational therapist for our local county school system. However, because of budget cuts, our school system has been forced to impose furlough days for the workers in the local educational system, which amounts to to several thousand dollars in lost salary to her family.

At the same time, while we are facing these budgetary shortfalls in education, my state legislature pushed through a last minute bill near the end of its last session which said no earnings from retirement earning would face ANY State Taxes! Am I the only one who thinks this is lunacy?
I am 36

I do not think people over 65 should be taxed!

It is not because I hate taxes. (Actually, I understand the need for taxes, so it is like a necessary evil to me) It is that after a point, I think the government should leave the elderly alone.

I mean, The olg geezers are losing their minds, the functionality of their bodies and hoping that they will not go to hell for all the sad things they did in their lives plus the money is going back into the economy after they kick the bucket anyway so let them have a feeble sounding last hurrah before then!!

What do you guys think?
 

VaYank5150

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I've attended a few Tea Party rallies, and I'll tell you the biggest problem I have with the "movement." At the meetings I saw first hand, the group that made up the largest number of attendees were old coots like myself. It would not be as colorful a term as "Tea Party," but I think a more appropriate name might be "AARP Senior Discount Movement!"

I have to be honest and admit it embarrassed me to see my fellow senior citizens out there supporting candidates who vowed they would keep increasing the quality of life for us old farts at the expense of our kids, grandkids, and great grandkids.

We seniors are the most affluent segment of society, and we pay, by a wide margin, the least amount of taxes. Perhaps someone can explain to me why the income I earn from capital gains, while sitting on my butt, is taxed at a much lower level than that of my granddaughter and her husband, who have two small children.

My granddaughter worked mighty hard to get a good job. She is the occupational therapist for our local county school system. However, because of budget cuts, our school system has been forced to impose furlough days for the workers in the local educational system, which amounts to to several thousand dollars in lost salary to her family.

At the same time, while we are facing these budgetary shortfalls in education, my state legislature pushed through a last minute bill near the end of its last session which said no earnings from retirement earning would face ANY State Taxes! Am I the only one who thinks this is lunacy?
I am 36

I do not think people over 65 should be taxed!

It is not because I hate taxes. (Actually, I understand the need for taxes, so it is like a necessary evil to me) It is that after a point, I think the government should leave the elderly alone.

I mean, The olg geezers are losing their minds, the functionality of their bodies and hoping that they will not go to hell for all the sad things they did in their lives plus the money is going back into the economy after they kick the bucket anyway so let them have a feeble sounding last hurrah before then!!

What do you guys think?
Using this logic, Social Security would be dead. Yesterday.
 

The T

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I've attended a few Tea Party rallies, and I'll tell you the biggest problem I have with the "movement." At the meetings I saw first hand, the group that made up the largest number of attendees were old coots like myself. It would not be as colorful a term as "Tea Party," but I think a more appropriate name might be "AARP Senior Discount Movement!"

I have to be honest and admit it embarrassed me to see my fellow senior citizens out there supporting candidates who vowed they would keep increasing the quality of life for us old farts at the expense of our kids, grandkids, and great grandkids.

We seniors are the most affluent segment of society, and we pay, by a wide margin, the least amount of taxes. Perhaps someone can explain to me why the income I earn from capital gains, while sitting on my butt, is taxed at a much lower level than that of my granddaughter and her husband, who have two small children.

My granddaughter worked mighty hard to get a good job. She is the occupational therapist for our local county school system. However, because of budget cuts, our school system has been forced to impose furlough days for the workers in the local educational system, which amounts to to several thousand dollars in lost salary to her family.

At the same time, while we are facing these budgetary shortfalls in education, my state legislature pushed through a last minute bill near the end of its last session which said no earnings from retirement earning would face ANY State Taxes! Am I the only one who thinks this is lunacy?
I am 36

I do not think people over 65 should be taxed!

It is not because I hate taxes. (Actually, I understand the need for taxes, so it is like a necessary evil to me) It is that after a point, I think the government should leave the elderly alone.

I mean, The olg geezers are losing their minds, the functionality of their bodies and hoping that they will not go to hell for all the sad things they did in their lives plus the money is going back into the economy after they kick the bucket anyway so let them have a feeble sounding last hurrah before then!!

What do you guys think?
Using this logic, Social Security would be dead. Yesterday.
*AS* it should have been decades ago. The ultimate Ponzi Scheme.
 

VaYank5150

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I am 36

I do not think people over 65 should be taxed!

It is not because I hate taxes. (Actually, I understand the need for taxes, so it is like a necessary evil to me) It is that after a point, I think the government should leave the elderly alone.

I mean, The olg geezers are losing their minds, the functionality of their bodies and hoping that they will not go to hell for all the sad things they did in their lives plus the money is going back into the economy after they kick the bucket anyway so let them have a feeble sounding last hurrah before then!!

What do you guys think?
Using this logic, Social Security would be dead. Yesterday.
*AS* it should have been decades ago. The ultimate Ponzi Scheme.
HOWEVER.....HOW do you phase it out. I am 42 and have been paying into it since I was 15. Do I now get NOTHING?
 

Papa Jack

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I've attended a few Tea Party rallies, and I'll tell you the biggest problem I have with the "movement." At the meetings I saw first hand, the group that made up the largest number of attendees were old coots like myself. It would not be as colorful a term as "Tea Party," but I think a more appropriate name might be "AARP Senior Discount Movement!"

I have to be honest and admit it embarrassed me to see my fellow senior citizens out there supporting candidates who vowed they would keep increasing the quality of life for us old farts at the expense of our kids, grandkids, and great grandkids.

We seniors are the most affluent segment of society, and we pay, by a wide margin, the least amount of taxes. Perhaps someone can explain to me why the income I earn from capital gains, while sitting on my butt, is taxed at a much lower level than that of my granddaughter and her husband, who have two small children.

My granddaughter worked mighty hard to get a good job. She is the occupational therapist for our local county school system. However, because of budget cuts, our school system has been forced to impose furlough days for the workers in the local educational system, which amounts to to several thousand dollars in lost salary to her family.

At the same time, while we are facing these budgetary shortfalls in education, my state legislature pushed through a last minute bill near the end of its last session which said no earnings from retirement earning would face ANY State Taxes! Am I the only one who thinks this is lunacy?
I am 36

I do not think people over 65 should be taxed!

It is not because I hate taxes. (Actually, I understand the need for taxes, so it is like a necessary evil to me) It is that after a point, I think the government should leave the elderly alone.

I mean, The olg geezers are losing their minds, the functionality of their bodies and hoping that they will not go to hell for all the sad things they did in their lives plus the money is going back into the economy after they kick the bucket anyway so let them have a feeble sounding last hurrah before then!!

What do you guys think?
Fortunately for us old codgers, with the political "pull" we seniors exercise, most of the elected politicians agree with you. And I appreciate that a young person like yourself would willingly work as hard as you do in order to keep my taxes almost non-existent.

However, if we keep going down this road there ain't gonna be a thing left for you when you finally reach retirement. Is that truly what you want?

If we don't soon do something to shore up our Social Security System, and our Medicare Program, you are not only going to be left out in the cold, but you are going to have a country like that of Greece.

Now, if we're going to ever do something sensible with those programs then people like me are going to have to pony up a little and accept some sane cut back in benefits. Unless someone comes up with a magic wand that really works, there will be absolutely no other way!

And, though I appreciate your natural sentiment to never, ever touch us old folks, unless you and others in your age group finally see the light and force the politicians to make some common sense reform, there will be nothing left for you! And, if my generation passes along to you a failed economic system, what do you think you will be passing to your children and grandchildren?
 

Papa Jack

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I've attended a few Tea Party rallies, and I'll tell you the biggest problem I have with the "movement." At the meetings I saw first hand, the group that made up the largest number of attendees were old coots like myself. It would not be as colorful a term as "Tea Party," but I think a more appropriate name might be "AARP Senior Discount Movement!"

I have to be honest and admit it embarrassed me to see my fellow senior citizens out there supporting candidates who vowed they would keep increasing the quality of life for us old farts at the expense of our kids, grandkids, and great grandkids.

We seniors are the most affluent segment of society, and we pay, by a wide margin, the least amount of taxes. Perhaps someone can explain to me why the income I earn from capital gains, while sitting on my butt, is taxed at a much lower level than that of my granddaughter and her husband, who have two small children.

My granddaughter worked mighty hard to get a good job. She is the occupational therapist for our local county school system. However, because of budget cuts, our school system has been forced to impose furlough days for the workers in the local educational system, which amounts to to several thousand dollars in lost salary to her family.

At the same time, while we are facing these budgetary shortfalls in education, my state legislature pushed through a last minute bill near the end of its last session which said no earnings from retirement earning would face ANY State Taxes! Am I the only one who thinks this is lunacy?
It appears that you are new here, Papa Jack. Please don't take it personally when all of the "conservatives/real Americans/Patrits/Tea Baggers" begin throwing you under the bus for not drinking their Koolaid.
Thanks for the warning VaYank5150. However, my skin is so thick with age that I think I'll be able to take the best (or worst) that's hurled at me.
 

Papa Jack

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I am 36

I do not think people over 65 should be taxed!

It is not because I hate taxes. (Actually, I understand the need for taxes, so it is like a necessary evil to me) It is that after a point, I think the government should leave the elderly alone.

I mean, The olg geezers are losing their minds, the functionality of their bodies and hoping that they will not go to hell for all the sad things they did in their lives plus the money is going back into the economy after they kick the bucket anyway so let them have a feeble sounding last hurrah before then!!

What do you guys think?
Using this logic, Social Security would be dead. Yesterday.
*AS* it should have been decades ago. The ultimate Ponzi Scheme.
This is the kind of thinking that just mystifies me. For the sake of argument, let's assume you're correct and Social Security "should have been dead decades ago." Perhaps you're dead on accurate and we'd be better off had we never began the program, or had killed it "decades ago."

That still has absolutely nothing to do with where we are today! In the present tense we have Social Security, and for better, or for worse, it ain't going away. That is reality! Now, if we accept we have something we can't "kill" then would not the very, very best option be to make some common sense reform where we can pay for what we do?

I just don't understand how people hold the position that "I'm against it," so don't do a damned thing to change it!
 

VaYank5150

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Using this logic, Social Security would be dead. Yesterday.
*AS* it should have been decades ago. The ultimate Ponzi Scheme.
This is the kind of thinking that just mystifies me. For the sake of argument, let's assume you're correct and Social Security "should have been dead decades ago." Perhaps you're dead on accurate and we'd be better off had we never began the program, or had killed it "decades ago."

That still has absolutely nothing to do with where we are today! In the present tense we have Social Security, and for better, or for worse, it ain't going away. That is reality! Now, if we accept we have something we can't "kill" then would not the very, very best option be to make some common sense reform where we can pay for what we do?

I just don't understand how people hold the position that "I'm against it," so don't do a damned thing to change it!
You don't? It's the GOP mantra for crying out loud???
 

rightwinger

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I've attended a few Tea Party rallies, and I'll tell you the biggest problem I have with the "movement." At the meetings I saw first hand, the group that made up the largest number of attendees were old coots like myself. It would not be as colorful a term as "Tea Party," but I think a more appropriate name might be "AARP Senior Discount Movement!"

I have to be honest and admit it embarrassed me to see my fellow senior citizens out there supporting candidates who vowed they would keep increasing the quality of life for us old farts at the expense of our kids, grandkids, and great grandkids.

We seniors are the most affluent segment of society, and we pay, by a wide margin, the least amount of taxes. Perhaps someone can explain to me why the income I earn from capital gains, while sitting on my butt, is taxed at a much lower level than that of my granddaughter and her husband, who have two small children.

My granddaughter worked mighty hard to get a good job. She is the occupational therapist for our local county school system. However, because of budget cuts, our school system has been forced to impose furlough days for the workers in the local educational system, which amounts to to several thousand dollars in lost salary to her family.

At the same time, while we are facing these budgetary shortfalls in education, my state legislature pushed through a last minute bill near the end of its last session which said no earnings from retirement earning would face ANY State Taxes! Am I the only one who thinks this is lunacy?
I am 36

I do not think people over 65 should be taxed!

It is not because I hate taxes. (Actually, I understand the need for taxes, so it is like a necessary evil to me) It is that after a point, I think the government should leave the elderly alone.

I mean, The olg geezers are losing their minds, the functionality of their bodies and hoping that they will not go to hell for all the sad things they did in their lives plus the money is going back into the economy after they kick the bucket anyway so let them have a feeble sounding last hurrah before then!!

What do you guys think?
Older Americans continue to use government services, more so than other age groups. They should be treated like any other American an taxed based on their ability to pay
 

Papa Jack

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I've attended a few Tea Party rallies, and I'll tell you the biggest problem I have with the "movement." At the meetings I saw first hand, the group that made up the largest number of attendees were old coots like myself. It would not be as colorful a term as "Tea Party," but I think a more appropriate name might be "AARP Senior Discount Movement!"

I have to be honest and admit it embarrassed me to see my fellow senior citizens out there supporting candidates who vowed they would keep increasing the quality of life for us old farts at the expense of our kids, grandkids, and great grandkids.

We seniors are the most affluent segment of society, and we pay, by a wide margin, the least amount of taxes. Perhaps someone can explain to me why the income I earn from capital gains, while sitting on my butt, is taxed at a much lower level than that of my granddaughter and her husband, who have two small children.

My granddaughter worked mighty hard to get a good job. She is the occupational therapist for our local county school system. However, because of budget cuts, our school system has been forced to impose furlough days for the workers in the local educational system, which amounts to to several thousand dollars in lost salary to her family.

At the same time, while we are facing these budgetary shortfalls in education, my state legislature pushed through a last minute bill near the end of its last session which said no earnings from retirement earning would face ANY State Taxes! Am I the only one who thinks this is lunacy?
I am 36

I do not think people over 65 should be taxed!

It is not because I hate taxes. (Actually, I understand the need for taxes, so it is like a necessary evil to me) It is that after a point, I think the government should leave the elderly alone.

I mean, The olg geezers are losing their minds, the functionality of their bodies and hoping that they will not go to hell for all the sad things they did in their lives plus the money is going back into the economy after they kick the bucket anyway so let them have a feeble sounding last hurrah before then!!

What do you guys think?
Older Americans continue to use government services, more so than other age groups. They should be treated like any other American an taxed based on their ability to pay
Rightwinger, in a few words your perfectly stated my position.

I'm not talking about "granny," or "poppa," who might have nothing to live on except Social Security. I'm talking about those who are fortunate enough to have amassed a net worth that puts them in a far better lifestyle than the 20 or 30 or 40 or 50 some things that are paying our way.

No one wants to pay more taxes...........I got that! But, if we are in a position when revenues must be raised in order to avoid a financial meltdown, then the sons and daughters of the "Greatest Generation" should be expected to do their duty!
 

Gremlin-USA

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Older Americans continue to use government services, more so than other age groups. They should be treated like any other American an taxed based on their ability to pay
Rightwinger, in a few words your perfectly stated my position.

I'm not talking about "granny," or "poppa," who might have nothing to live on except Social Security. I'm talking about those who are fortunate enough to have amassed a net worth that puts them in a far better lifestyle than the 20 or 30 or 40 or 50 some things that are paying our way.

No one wants to pay more taxes...........I got that! But, if we are in a position when revenues must be raised in order to avoid a financial meltdown, then the sons and daughters of the "Greatest Generation" should be expected to do their duty!
Maybe we should try to get the 45% who File Federal Income Tax and never pay any money to Support the Government, I mean they use all the Services Too.

After we get a Fair Share from the ones who don't pay, we can go after the ones who have been paying for 40+ Years :eusa_whistle:
 

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