What Happened to Church?

[Erinwltr]

"What Happened to Church?" You and smug, presumptuous folks like you killed it. Best church experience I ever had was in a Mennonite church. Lots of laughter, smiles, singing and great food.

Conservative Conference, Black Bumper? Where was it, I might have relatives there.

And yes, great food, and lots it.

It was the summer in the early 80s in Virginia Beach right off of North Landing Road. It was a regular Sunday service with lunch/dinner after wards. Long time ago.

 

[Taz]

Does that apply to me as well?

Are you actually looking for reassurance that the God you make a hobby out of mocking still loves you despite your buffoonery?

Why, he wouldn't? I've challenged god to show me that he's real, but yet he hides still. I'm trying to call him out. Yet still he hides.

IOW, you've demanded that God act the way you want Him to act, instead of actually asking Him to reveal Himself. And when He does reveal Himself, you simply ignore Him and act like He did nothing.

So what am I looking for?

You'll never see it because you really don't want to.

You have nothing, WHAT A SHOCK!!!!

 

[ding]

So what's the problem here? Is it God? Or Christians? Or the church? Something in your past?

I know atheists in real life who wouldn't waste one minute of their time grinding it out online. They're not angry. They live their life, they let others live theirs. Not you though. What gives?

I actually first came here to see if anyone had any real proof about their god, and I'm still willing to talk real proof anytime. But that was a long time ago, the theists here can't answer my questions, that's why they heap so much abuse on me. All in good fun, I suppose, while keeping on the topics, or near them, lol. If you're new and have some real proof of your god, I'll discuss it any time. Would love to talk about some real proof.

If you had real proof of God--if He showed Himself to you just as Jesus Christ showed Himself to Paul and you could not deny it--what would you do?

I would go on TV/internet... and present my real proof to everyone so we can all know the real deal. I think it would bring a serious amount of peace to the world, if we were all the same religion, and it was provable to be real. That's what a real god showing itself could bring.

Homogenization is unnatural and bad. Bad things happen when everyone believes the same thing. Diversity is good.

So bad things will happen if everyone believes what you do?

No. You.

 

[Cecilie1200]

My grandfather left the Amish as a young man. I know about focus on the external at the expense of the internal. What you do in the outside doesn't help much when God sees the heart clearly.

Does that apply to me as well?

Are you actually looking for reassurance that the God you make a hobby out of mocking still loves you despite your buffoonery?

Why, he wouldn't? I've challenged god to show me that he's real, but yet he hides still. I'm trying to call him out. Yet still he hides.

IOW, you've demanded that God act the way you want Him to act, instead of actually asking Him to reveal Himself. And when He does reveal Himself, you simply ignore Him and act like He did nothing.

I told y'all. Taz thinks that "proof of God" is going to work like a Hollywood summer blockbuster.

 

[Cecilie1200]

"What Happened to Church?" You and smug, presumptuous folks like you killed it. Best church experience I ever had was in a Mennonite church. Lots of laughter, smiles, singing and great food.

I'm sorry, but who the hell are you, and why are you barging into a thread full of total strangers and tossing around accusations and insults as though you know any of us?

 

[Erinwltr]

"What Happened to Church?" You and smug, presumptuous folks like you killed it. Best church experience I ever had was in a Mennonite church. Lots of laughter, smiles, singing and great food.

I'm sorry, but who the hell are you, and why are you barging into a thread full of total strangers and tossing around accusations and insults as though you know any of us?

Unless I'm supposed to be invited to this thread, it is open.

 

[Taz]

My grandfather left the Amish as a young man. I know about focus on the external at the expense of the internal. What you do in the outside doesn't help much when God sees the heart clearly.

Does that apply to me as well?

Are you actually looking for reassurance that the God you make a hobby out of mocking still loves you despite your buffoonery?

Why, he wouldn't? I've challenged god to show me that he's real, but yet he hides still. I'm trying to call him out. Yet still he hides.

IOW, you've demanded that God act the way you want Him to act, instead of actually asking Him to reveal Himself. And when He does reveal Himself, you simply ignore Him and act like He did nothing.

I told y'all. Taz thinks that "proof of God" is going to work like a Hollywood summer blockbuster.

So tell me, in all seriousness, what did you people think was proof that god contacted you?

 

[Cecilie1200]

"What Happened to Church?" You and smug, presumptuous folks like you killed it. Best church experience I ever had was in a Mennonite church. Lots of laughter, smiles, singing and great food.

I'm sorry, but who the hell are you, and why are you barging into a thread full of total strangers and tossing around accusations and insults as though you know any of us?

Unless I'm supposed to be invited to this thread, it is open.

Yeah, I'm not objecting to you being in the thread, cluebird. I'm commenting on your appalling rudeness, arrogance, and while I'm at it, hypocrisy.

 

[Erinwltr]

"What Happened to Church?" You and smug, presumptuous folks like you killed it. Best church experience I ever had was in a Mennonite church. Lots of laughter, smiles, singing and great food.

I'm sorry, but who the hell are you, and why are you barging into a thread full of total strangers and tossing around accusations and insults as though you know any of us?

Unless I'm supposed to be invited to this thread, it is open.

Yeah, I'm not objecting to you being in the thread, cluebird. I'm commenting on your appalling rudeness, arrogance, and while I'm at it, hypocrisy.

"Why are you barging into a thread." Yes you do have an issue with me being here.

Additionally, I don't believe as you do and pointed out your snotty, arrogant attitude. Folks like you killed what once used to be a wonderful church experience. Own it , you did it not me and everyone else you care to point a finger at.

Talk about hypocrisy.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Does that apply to me as well?

Are you actually looking for reassurance that the God you make a hobby out of mocking still loves you despite your buffoonery?

Why, he wouldn't? I've challenged god to show me that he's real, but yet he hides still. I'm trying to call him out. Yet still he hides.

IOW, you've demanded that God act the way you want Him to act, instead of actually asking Him to reveal Himself. And when He does reveal Himself, you simply ignore Him and act like He did nothing.

I told y'all. Taz thinks that "proof of God" is going to work like a Hollywood summer blockbuster.

So tell me, in all seriousness, what did you people think was proof that god contacted you?

In all honesty and seriousness, Taz, you won't understand it. It's definitely a "you had to be there" sort of thing.

Also, you have to keep in mind that, unlike you, I've never been an unbeliever, and I've certainly never made a practice of taunting God, so I've never required a road-to-Damascus moment.

That being said, I've lived my entire life in an environment full of miracles and manifestations of God. For me, the evidence has been cumulative.

Where other people's "origin stories" are about how screwed up their parents were, my parents were both Christians of the caliber other Christians aspire to and pretend to be. Neither of them ever outright told anyone that they were Christians that I can recall, or went around ending every sentence with, "Praise Jesus", or any of that. (To this day, I have a visceral distaste for that sort of showiness.) But everyone knew, just by looking at them. Total strangers would trust my parents with their lives and everything they owned, right off the bat (no exaggeration there. We moved into a small apartment complex once, and a week later, my parents were the caretakers and had keys to literally everything the owner had).

When my father passed away, he had already spent several years in a nursing home, because his condition was too bad for him to be without medical care on-call 24 hours a day. He had had a series of strokes over the years, big and little, which left him without the ability to walk, or talk, or even swallow without difficulty.

The doctors asked my mother if she "wanted to bother" putting in a feeding tube if his difficulties swallowing progressed, and started talking about "dying with dignity", "letting him go peacefully", all that rubbish. Someone actually had the unspeakable gaucheness to say, "And you could get on with your life." My mom gave them all a flat stare and said, "He IS my life. That's what marriage is." They said, "It's dangerous. He could die during the operation." Mom said, "If he does, then he does. He will go when God decides to take him, but he won't go because I decided to kill him." I've never been prouder of my mom than that day.

As it happened, it never got to that point. At Dad's funeral, there were a bunch of people I didn't really know. The pastor opened up the service for people to speak about my dad, and one by one, all of those strangers stood up and identified themselves and told us how much Dad had meant to them. They were all employees of the nursing home (people who don't normally attend funerals, because they'd end up doing nothing else). One man summed it up best when he said, "I would get to work, and I would be upset because I had a fight with my girlfriend, or because of bills, or whatever. And I would walk into Harold's room, and his face would just light up. He always seemed so happy. He never got angry or mean, like some people do, even when I knew his treatments had to be hurting him. He took so much joy in everything around him. And I would think, 'If Harold can be happy the way he is, what right do I have, when I have so much more, to be miserable?' It changed my whole outlook."

My father believed that if he was still drawing breath, it was because God had something he was supposed to do, and so he was ready and willing to do it, no matter the circumstances. And because of that, his life changed the lives of everyone around him, even when he couldn't even move or talk. Completely aside from the question of God being real or not, THAT is what having faith in God being real does for you.

(To be continued.)

 

[hadit]

"What Happened to Church?" You and smug, presumptuous folks like you killed it. Best church experience I ever had was in a Mennonite church. Lots of laughter, smiles, singing and great food.

Conservative Conference, Black Bumper? Where was it, I might have relatives there.

And yes, great food, and lots it.

It was the summer in the early 80s in Virginia Beach right off of North Landing Road. It was a regular Sunday service with lunch/dinner after wards. Long time ago.

I might be related to some of them, but distantly.

 

[Erinwltr]

"What Happened to Church?" You and smug, presumptuous folks like you killed it. Best church experience I ever had was in a Mennonite church. Lots of laughter, smiles, singing and great food.

Conservative Conference, Black Bumper? Where was it, I might have relatives there.

And yes, great food, and lots it.

It was the summer in the early 80s in Virginia Beach right off of North Landing Road. It was a regular Sunday service with lunch/dinner after wards. Long time ago.

I might be related to some of them, but distantly.

Mighty fine folks to be related to if you are.

 

[hadit]

Are you actually looking for reassurance that the God you make a hobby out of mocking still loves you despite your buffoonery?

Why, he wouldn't? I've challenged god to show me that he's real, but yet he hides still. I'm trying to call him out. Yet still he hides.

IOW, you've demanded that God act the way you want Him to act, instead of actually asking Him to reveal Himself. And when He does reveal Himself, you simply ignore Him and act like He did nothing.

I told y'all. Taz thinks that "proof of God" is going to work like a Hollywood summer blockbuster.

So tell me, in all seriousness, what did you people think was proof that god contacted you?

In all honesty and seriousness, Taz, you won't understand it. It's definitely a "you had to be there" sort of thing.

Also, you have to keep in mind that, unlike you, I've never been an unbeliever, and I've certainly never made a practice of taunting God, so I've never required a road-to-Damascus moment.

That being said, I've lived my entire life in an environment full of miracles and manifestations of God. For me, the evidence has been cumulative.

Where other people's "origin stories" are about how screwed up their parents were, my parents were both Christians of the caliber other Christians aspire to and pretend to be. Neither of them ever outright told anyone that they were Christians that I can recall, or went around ending every sentence with, "Praise Jesus", or any of that. (To this day, I have a visceral distaste for that sort of showiness.) But everyone knew, just by looking at them. Total strangers would trust my parents with their lives and everything they owned, right off the bat (no exaggeration there. We moved into a small apartment complex once, and a week later, my parents were the caretakers and had keys to literally everything the owner had).

When my father passed away, he had already spent several years in a nursing home, because his condition was too bad for him to be without medical care on-call 24 hours a day. He had had a series of strokes over the years, big and little, which left him without the ability to walk, or talk, or even swallow without difficulty.

The doctors asked my mother if she "wanted to bother" putting in a feeding tube if his difficulties swallowing progressed, and started talking about "dying with dignity", "letting him go peacefully", all that rubbish. Someone actually had the unspeakable gaucheness to say, "And you could get on with your life." My mom gave them all a flat stare and said, "He IS my life. That's what marriage is." They said, "It's dangerous. He could die during the operation." Mom said, "If he does, then he does. He will go when God decides to take him, but he won't go because I decided to kill him." I've never been prouder of my mom than that day.

As it happened, it never got to that point. At Dad's funeral, there were a bunch of people I didn't really know. The pastor opened up the service for people to speak about my dad, and one by one, all of those strangers stood up and identified themselves and told us how much Dad had meant to them. They were all employees of the nursing home (people who don't normally attend funerals, because they'd end up doing nothing else). One man summed it up best when he said, "I would get to work, and I would be upset because I had a fight with my girlfriend, or because of bills, or whatever. And I would walk into Harold's room, and his face would just light up. He always seemed so happy. He never got angry or mean, like some people do, even when I knew his treatments had to be hurting him. He took so much joy in everything around him. And I would think, 'If Harold can be happy the way he is, what right do I have, when I have so much more, to be miserable?' It changed my whole outlook."

My father believed that if he was still drawing breath, it was because God had something he was supposed to do, and so he was ready and willing to do it, no matter the circumstances. And because of that, his life changed the lives of everyone around him, even when he couldn't even move or talk. Completely aside from the question of God being real or not, THAT is what having faith in God being real does for you.

(To be continued.)

That's why I always ask what kind of proof someone will accept. Will they accept something that only they can verify or do they pin their eternity on what someone else tells them is true? IOW, God does something dramatic in front of Taz, but no one else is around. Does Taz acknowledge God's existence, or does doubt creep in and Taz deny personal experience?

We've had personal experience with God, experience that others did not share.

I actually had an online conversation once with someone who insisted UFO abductions were for real because he believed the stories told by a handful of people, yet refused to accept the stories of untold millions of people throughout recorded human history who testified about their encounters with God. He didn't see the disconnect.

I call it the "do a trick" Gambit, in which the sceptics insist that God has to do a magic trick for them to believe, yet they don't realize that He would have to continue doing magic tricks over and over again because any human who didn't witness the original one could simply deny it ever happened.

 

[hadit]

"What Happened to Church?" You and smug, presumptuous folks like you killed it. Best church experience I ever had was in a Mennonite church. Lots of laughter, smiles, singing and great food.

Conservative Conference, Black Bumper? Where was it, I might have relatives there.

And yes, great food, and lots it.

It was the summer in the early 80s in Virginia Beach right off of North Landing Road. It was a regular Sunday service with lunch/dinner after wards. Long time ago.

I might be related to some of them, but distantly.

Mighty fine folks to be related to if you are.

I like to think so. Thanks.

 

[Cecilie1200]

(Continued.)

I think I'm probably older than you, Taz, although I might be wrong. I can remember the ministries of people like Corrie ten Boom, Andrew van der Bijl, David Wilkinson, and any number of missionaries behind the Iron and Bamboo Curtains. I heard their testimonies about the miracles God worked in the midst of some of the greatest atrocities ever committed by the free will of mankind; I saw the changes that their faith made in their lives and in them.

I can look at who they were and what they had, then look at what atheists and materialists are and what they have to offer, and make the pretty simple calculation: Which of these do I want?

The pastor I grew up with had severed vocal chords. Decades ago, he developed throat cancer, and had surgery to remove the tumor. While he was still sedated in the recovery room, the doctors told his wife that the tumor had spread farther than they'd initially thought, and in order to remove it, they had had to sever the vocal chords. They had gotten all of the cancer, and his prognosis was good, but he would never talk again.

They didn't get a chance to tell him that.

When he woke from the anesthesia, he looked around blearily, and then told the nurse who was in the room that he was really thirsty, and asked her for a glass of water. Instead, she ran out of the room, calling for the doctor. He went on to preach for another thirty years or so until he passed away. As far as I know, no one ever gave a satisfactory explanation for how he did so.

My grandmother, who was an ordained minister, was a fearsome prayer warrior. Not an especially likable person by personality, but asking her to pray for something was like triggering the nuclear option. She prayed for stuff to happen "by any means necessary", and you took her your prayer request only after a great deal of thought.

My sister started smoking when she was 14, and continued until she was in her forties. That was when she flippantly remarked in front of my grandmother how "she really wished she could quit, but she just couldn't." Grandma said, "Do you really want to quit?" Sis said, "Oh, of course, it's so expensive and bad for you, but it's so hard, I'm just addicted," blah blah blah. Grandma said, "All right, you're going to quit."

Grandma began to fast and pray. For a solid week, she fasted and - aside from basic necessities - she did nothing but read the Bible and pray that God would stop my sister from smoking. She'd have kept going if she needed to, but at the end of that week, my sister lit up a cigarette, took a drag . . . and started vomiting. She put out the cigarette, and the vomiting stopped. Every time she lit up and inhaled, she'd start gagging and heaving. For a while there, even being around other people's secondhand smoke would start it. That was it. Cold turkey from that moment on. It doesn't take a lot of regurgitation to make the cause of it utterly unappealing. She got over her reaction to secondhand smoke pretty quickly; thank goodness, because that would be mildly debilitating. But out of sheer contrariness, she tried to smoke a cigarette a few years later. Guess what?

My sister is now in her mid-50s, and can't even imagine being a smoker. Which is a good thing, since in the last few years, she's developed asthma (undoubtedly owing a lot to all those years of smoking). God only knows what her health would be like if she'd kept smoking.

This is just by way of a highlights reel. My life and those of my family and people I've known have been filled with similar.

(To be continued.)

 

[Taz]

Are you actually looking for reassurance that the God you make a hobby out of mocking still loves you despite your buffoonery?

Why, he wouldn't? I've challenged god to show me that he's real, but yet he hides still. I'm trying to call him out. Yet still he hides.

IOW, you've demanded that God act the way you want Him to act, instead of actually asking Him to reveal Himself. And when He does reveal Himself, you simply ignore Him and act like He did nothing.

I told y'all. Taz thinks that "proof of God" is going to work like a Hollywood summer blockbuster.

So tell me, in all seriousness, what did you people think was proof that god contacted you?

In all honesty and seriousness, Taz, you won't understand it. It's definitely a "you had to be there" sort of thing.

Also, you have to keep in mind that, unlike you, I've never been an unbeliever, and I've certainly never made a practice of taunting God, so I've never required a road-to-Damascus moment.

That being said, I've lived my entire life in an environment full of miracles and manifestations of God. For me, the evidence has been cumulative.

Where other people's "origin stories" are about how screwed up their parents were, my parents were both Christians of the caliber other Christians aspire to and pretend to be. Neither of them ever outright told anyone that they were Christians that I can recall, or went around ending every sentence with, "Praise Jesus", or any of that. (To this day, I have a visceral distaste for that sort of showiness.) But everyone knew, just by looking at them. Total strangers would trust my parents with their lives and everything they owned, right off the bat (no exaggeration there. We moved into a small apartment complex once, and a week later, my parents were the caretakers and had keys to literally everything the owner had).

When my father passed away, he had already spent several years in a nursing home, because his condition was too bad for him to be without medical care on-call 24 hours a day. He had had a series of strokes over the years, big and little, which left him without the ability to walk, or talk, or even swallow without difficulty.

The doctors asked my mother if she "wanted to bother" putting in a feeding tube if his difficulties swallowing progressed, and started talking about "dying with dignity", "letting him go peacefully", all that rubbish. Someone actually had the unspeakable gaucheness to say, "And you could get on with your life." My mom gave them all a flat stare and said, "He IS my life. That's what marriage is." They said, "It's dangerous. He could die during the operation." Mom said, "If he does, then he does. He will go when God decides to take him, but he won't go because I decided to kill him." I've never been prouder of my mom than that day.

As it happened, it never got to that point. At Dad's funeral, there were a bunch of people I didn't really know. The pastor opened up the service for people to speak about my dad, and one by one, all of those strangers stood up and identified themselves and told us how much Dad had meant to them. They were all employees of the nursing home (people who don't normally attend funerals, because they'd end up doing nothing else). One man summed it up best when he said, "I would get to work, and I would be upset because I had a fight with my girlfriend, or because of bills, or whatever. And I would walk into Harold's room, and his face would just light up. He always seemed so happy. He never got angry or mean, like some people do, even when I knew his treatments had to be hurting him. He took so much joy in everything around him. And I would think, 'If Harold can be happy the way he is, what right do I have, when I have so much more, to be miserable?' It changed my whole outlook."

My father believed that if he was still drawing breath, it was because God had something he was supposed to do, and so he was ready and willing to do it, no matter the circumstances. And because of that, his life changed the lives of everyone around him, even when he couldn't even move or talk. Completely aside from the question of God being real or not, THAT is what having faith in God being real does for you.

(To be continued.)

Beautiful story, but I'm not getting the connection to having god connect with you. Saying that I wouldn't understand is a cop-out, you either have something or you don't, you don't seem to, you admitted as much. Seems kind of weird though to believe in something you don't know is even there.

 

[Taz]

Why, he wouldn't? I've challenged god to show me that he's real, but yet he hides still. I'm trying to call him out. Yet still he hides.

IOW, you've demanded that God act the way you want Him to act, instead of actually asking Him to reveal Himself. And when He does reveal Himself, you simply ignore Him and act like He did nothing.

I told y'all. Taz thinks that "proof of God" is going to work like a Hollywood summer blockbuster.

So tell me, in all seriousness, what did you people think was proof that god contacted you?

In all honesty and seriousness, Taz, you won't understand it. It's definitely a "you had to be there" sort of thing.

Also, you have to keep in mind that, unlike you, I've never been an unbeliever, and I've certainly never made a practice of taunting God, so I've never required a road-to-Damascus moment.

That being said, I've lived my entire life in an environment full of miracles and manifestations of God. For me, the evidence has been cumulative.

Where other people's "origin stories" are about how screwed up their parents were, my parents were both Christians of the caliber other Christians aspire to and pretend to be. Neither of them ever outright told anyone that they were Christians that I can recall, or went around ending every sentence with, "Praise Jesus", or any of that. (To this day, I have a visceral distaste for that sort of showiness.) But everyone knew, just by looking at them. Total strangers would trust my parents with their lives and everything they owned, right off the bat (no exaggeration there. We moved into a small apartment complex once, and a week later, my parents were the caretakers and had keys to literally everything the owner had).

When my father passed away, he had already spent several years in a nursing home, because his condition was too bad for him to be without medical care on-call 24 hours a day. He had had a series of strokes over the years, big and little, which left him without the ability to walk, or talk, or even swallow without difficulty.

The doctors asked my mother if she "wanted to bother" putting in a feeding tube if his difficulties swallowing progressed, and started talking about "dying with dignity", "letting him go peacefully", all that rubbish. Someone actually had the unspeakable gaucheness to say, "And you could get on with your life." My mom gave them all a flat stare and said, "He IS my life. That's what marriage is." They said, "It's dangerous. He could die during the operation." Mom said, "If he does, then he does. He will go when God decides to take him, but he won't go because I decided to kill him." I've never been prouder of my mom than that day.

As it happened, it never got to that point. At Dad's funeral, there were a bunch of people I didn't really know. The pastor opened up the service for people to speak about my dad, and one by one, all of those strangers stood up and identified themselves and told us how much Dad had meant to them. They were all employees of the nursing home (people who don't normally attend funerals, because they'd end up doing nothing else). One man summed it up best when he said, "I would get to work, and I would be upset because I had a fight with my girlfriend, or because of bills, or whatever. And I would walk into Harold's room, and his face would just light up. He always seemed so happy. He never got angry or mean, like some people do, even when I knew his treatments had to be hurting him. He took so much joy in everything around him. And I would think, 'If Harold can be happy the way he is, what right do I have, when I have so much more, to be miserable?' It changed my whole outlook."

My father believed that if he was still drawing breath, it was because God had something he was supposed to do, and so he was ready and willing to do it, no matter the circumstances. And because of that, his life changed the lives of everyone around him, even when he couldn't even move or talk. Completely aside from the question of God being real or not, THAT is what having faith in God being real does for you.

(To be continued.)

That's why I always ask what kind of proof someone will accept. Will they accept something that only they can verify or do they pin their eternity on what someone else tells them is true? IOW, God does something dramatic in front of Taz, but no one else is around. Does Taz acknowledge God's existence, or does doubt creep in and Taz deny personal experience?

We've had personal experience with God, experience that others did not share.

I actually had an online conversation once with someone who insisted UFO abductions were for real because he believed the stories told by a handful of people, yet refused to accept the stories of untold millions of people throughout recorded human history who testified about their encounters with God. He didn't see the disconnect.

I call it the "do a trick" Gambit, in which the sceptics insist that God has to do a magic trick for them to believe, yet they don't realize that He would have to continue doing magic tricks over and over again because any human who didn't witness the original one could simply deny it ever happened.

As for aliens, as one poster said before, the US Air Forced never chased Jesus through the sky.

What was your personal experience with god?

 

[BreezeWood]

Now, sometimes people feel that He they have revealed Himself theirself to us individually and that's different.

everyone is on the same level field at birth, the paths are reviled not the Almighty ... and certainly not from a book. faith must become realized or it is a figment of one's imagination.

 

[Cecilie1200]

"What Happened to Church?" You and smug, presumptuous folks like you killed it. Best church experience I ever had was in a Mennonite church. Lots of laughter, smiles, singing and great food.

I'm sorry, but who the hell are you, and why are you barging into a thread full of total strangers and tossing around accusations and insults as though you know any of us?

Unless I'm supposed to be invited to this thread, it is open.

Yeah, I'm not objecting to you being in the thread, cluebird. I'm commenting on your appalling rudeness, arrogance, and while I'm at it, hypocrisy.

"Why are you barging into a thread." Yes you do have an issue with me being here.

Additionally, I don't believe as you do and pointed out your snotty, arrogant attitude. Folks like you killed what once used to be a wonderful church experience. Own it , you did it not me and everyone else you care to point a finger at.

Talk about hypocrisy.

Glad to know that in addition to sharing your superlative social skills, you're also going to do a mindreading act and tell me what I'm "really" thinking, because you know better than I do.

Additionally, I AM talking about hypocrisy, with or without your "so kind" permission, because you have, in the space of two posts, vaulted yourself right to the head of my "Snotty Arrogant Attitude" list. In my wildest dreams, I could not come within miles of you on that score, particularly not this fast.

Now you're the head of another list: I Don't Need To Know It Exists. Buh-bye, Mowgli.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Why, he wouldn't? I've challenged god to show me that he's real, but yet he hides still. I'm trying to call him out. Yet still he hides.

IOW, you've demanded that God act the way you want Him to act, instead of actually asking Him to reveal Himself. And when He does reveal Himself, you simply ignore Him and act like He did nothing.

I told y'all. Taz thinks that "proof of God" is going to work like a Hollywood summer blockbuster.

So tell me, in all seriousness, what did you people think was proof that god contacted you?

In all honesty and seriousness, Taz, you won't understand it. It's definitely a "you had to be there" sort of thing.

Also, you have to keep in mind that, unlike you, I've never been an unbeliever, and I've certainly never made a practice of taunting God, so I've never required a road-to-Damascus moment.

That being said, I've lived my entire life in an environment full of miracles and manifestations of God. For me, the evidence has been cumulative.

Where other people's "origin stories" are about how screwed up their parents were, my parents were both Christians of the caliber other Christians aspire to and pretend to be. Neither of them ever outright told anyone that they were Christians that I can recall, or went around ending every sentence with, "Praise Jesus", or any of that. (To this day, I have a visceral distaste for that sort of showiness.) But everyone knew, just by looking at them. Total strangers would trust my parents with their lives and everything they owned, right off the bat (no exaggeration there. We moved into a small apartment complex once, and a week later, my parents were the caretakers and had keys to literally everything the owner had).

When my father passed away, he had already spent several years in a nursing home, because his condition was too bad for him to be without medical care on-call 24 hours a day. He had had a series of strokes over the years, big and little, which left him without the ability to walk, or talk, or even swallow without difficulty.

The doctors asked my mother if she "wanted to bother" putting in a feeding tube if his difficulties swallowing progressed, and started talking about "dying with dignity", "letting him go peacefully", all that rubbish. Someone actually had the unspeakable gaucheness to say, "And you could get on with your life." My mom gave them all a flat stare and said, "He IS my life. That's what marriage is." They said, "It's dangerous. He could die during the operation." Mom said, "If he does, then he does. He will go when God decides to take him, but he won't go because I decided to kill him." I've never been prouder of my mom than that day.

As it happened, it never got to that point. At Dad's funeral, there were a bunch of people I didn't really know. The pastor opened up the service for people to speak about my dad, and one by one, all of those strangers stood up and identified themselves and told us how much Dad had meant to them. They were all employees of the nursing home (people who don't normally attend funerals, because they'd end up doing nothing else). One man summed it up best when he said, "I would get to work, and I would be upset because I had a fight with my girlfriend, or because of bills, or whatever. And I would walk into Harold's room, and his face would just light up. He always seemed so happy. He never got angry or mean, like some people do, even when I knew his treatments had to be hurting him. He took so much joy in everything around him. And I would think, 'If Harold can be happy the way he is, what right do I have, when I have so much more, to be miserable?' It changed my whole outlook."

My father believed that if he was still drawing breath, it was because God had something he was supposed to do, and so he was ready and willing to do it, no matter the circumstances. And because of that, his life changed the lives of everyone around him, even when he couldn't even move or talk. Completely aside from the question of God being real or not, THAT is what having faith in God being real does for you.

(To be continued.)

That's why I always ask what kind of proof someone will accept. Will they accept something that only they can verify or do they pin their eternity on what someone else tells them is true? IOW, God does something dramatic in front of Taz, but no one else is around. Does Taz acknowledge God's existence, or does doubt creep in and Taz deny personal experience?

We've had personal experience with God, experience that others did not share.

I actually had an online conversation once with someone who insisted UFO abductions were for real because he believed the stories told by a handful of people, yet refused to accept the stories of untold millions of people throughout recorded human history who testified about their encounters with God. He didn't see the disconnect.

I call it the "do a trick" Gambit, in which the sceptics insist that God has to do a magic trick for them to believe, yet they don't realize that He would have to continue doing magic tricks over and over again because any human who didn't witness the original one could simply deny it ever happened.

I simply don't consider it my job to "prove" anything. I can discuss God and religion all day - and I do - but His existence isn't something that can be proved by words and arguments and debates. It isn't a matter of spelling out an equation. He proves it when and how He chooses. I can, and will, tell people about my own experiences with it, but it's not something anyone can understand without having experienced it themselves.