What Happened to Church?

[hadit]

My grandfather left the Amish as a young man. I know about focus on the external at the expense of the internal. What you do in the outside doesn't help much when God sees the heart clearly.

Does that apply to me as well?

What do you think?

You have just stumbled into one of the answers too your trolling question. Congratulations. Now ignore it.

You can't answer the question, got it.

I'm guiding you into finding the answer for yourself.

You must be dingbat's bf.

Give a man a fish...

 

[hadit]

My grandfather left the Amish as a young man. I know about focus on the external at the expense of the internal. What you do in the outside doesn't help much when God sees the heart clearly.

Does that apply to me as well?

Are you actually looking for reassurance that the God you make a hobby out of mocking still loves you despite your buffoonery?

Why, he wouldn't? I've challenged god to show me that he's real, but yet he hides still. I'm trying to call him out. Yet still he hides.

IOW, you've demanded that God act the way you want Him to act, instead of actually asking Him to reveal Himself. And when He does reveal Himself, you simply ignore Him and act like He did nothing.

 

[Taz]

Ya, I'm grinding YOUR ax!

So what's the problem here? Is it God? Or Christians? Or the church? Something in your past?

I know atheists in real life who wouldn't waste one minute of their time grinding it out online. They're not angry. They live their life, they let others live theirs. Not you though. What gives?

I actually first came here to see if anyone had any real proof about their god, and I'm still willing to talk real proof anytime. But that was a long time ago, the theists here can't answer my questions, that's why they heap so much abuse on me. All in good fun, I suppose, while keeping on the topics, or near them, lol. If you're new and have some real proof of your god, I'll discuss it any time. Would love to talk about some real proof.

If you had real proof of God--if He showed Himself to you just as Jesus Christ showed Himself to Paul and you could not deny it--what would you do?

I would go on TV/internet... and present my real proof to everyone so we can all know the real deal. I think it would bring a serious amount of peace to the world, if we were all the same religion, and it was provable to be real. That's what a real god showing itself could bring.

That's not what happened on the Road to Emmaus. It was a revelation to Paul only, for Paul only, but it totally changed his life. He was a persecutor of Jesus previously. But he changed after that.

I will just tell you. Everything in your words tells me that if you saw God outright, you would mock, challenge, and be prideful toward Him, just as you are here.

In that case, it would certainly be worse for you. In which case, God in his mercy is sparing you Himself, because it would only "heap burning coal on your head".

In other words, you've heard of a "grace period"? This is yours. How good is God. He spares you the revealing because He knows what you would do with it, and it would just make things worse for you. So here you are, on His planet, breathing His air, eating His food, partaking in common grace. You say you want Him but I think maybe not, and He will spare you even that if it's best for you.

He's giving you every chance. You really want to see Him? You like to go outside? Start maybe by going outside. Notice what good things are there and thank Him. Then try to imagine what it might be like if you DID encounter Him, and not just for something to "prove".

The last thing it's about is how much money you drop in the plate, btw. Or anyway, it's not anywhere near the top.

None of the big things in the bible relating to god or Jesus can be proven to be true.

As for your reasons for god not showing itself to the world is pretty much nonsense because god could bring peace to the world if it wanted. But instead it chooses to hide and let mankind be divided and even waging war among all the different beliefs.

If I encountered god I'd ask it why it makes deformed babies, mental retardation, Downs, cancer...

I was curious about how much people drop in the plate at church, that's all. Everyone here was too afraid to answer and heaped more insults at me.

 

[Taz]

Ya, I'm grinding YOUR ax!

So what's the problem here? Is it God? Or Christians? Or the church? Something in your past?

I know atheists in real life who wouldn't waste one minute of their time grinding it out online. They're not angry. They live their life, they let others live theirs. Not you though. What gives?

I actually first came here to see if anyone had any real proof about their god, and I'm still willing to talk real proof anytime. But that was a long time ago, the theists here can't answer my questions, that's why they heap so much abuse on me. All in good fun, I suppose, while keeping on the topics, or near them, lol. If you're new and have some real proof of your god, I'll discuss it any time. Would love to talk about some real proof.

If you had real proof of God--if He showed Himself to you just as Jesus Christ showed Himself to Paul and you could not deny it--what would you do?

I would go on TV/internet... and present my real proof to everyone so we can all know the real deal. I think it would bring a serious amount of peace to the world, if we were all the same religion, and it was provable to be real. That's what a real god showing itself could bring.

Homogenization is unnatural and bad. Bad things happen when everyone believes the same thing. Diversity is good.

So bad things will happen if everyone believes what you do?

 

[Taz]

My grandfather left the Amish as a young man. I know about focus on the external at the expense of the internal. What you do in the outside doesn't help much when God sees the heart clearly.

Does that apply to me as well?

Are you actually looking for reassurance that the God you make a hobby out of mocking still loves you despite your buffoonery?

Why, he wouldn't? I've challenged god to show me that he's real, but yet he hides still. I'm trying to call him out. Yet still he hides.

IOW, you've demanded that God act the way you want Him to act, instead of actually asking Him to reveal Himself. And when He does reveal Himself, you simply ignore Him and act like He did nothing.

So what am I looking for?

 

[SweetSue92]

So what's the problem here? Is it God? Or Christians? Or the church? Something in your past?

I know atheists in real life who wouldn't waste one minute of their time grinding it out online. They're not angry. They live their life, they let others live theirs. Not you though. What gives?

I actually first came here to see if anyone had any real proof about their god, and I'm still willing to talk real proof anytime. But that was a long time ago, the theists here can't answer my questions, that's why they heap so much abuse on me. All in good fun, I suppose, while keeping on the topics, or near them, lol. If you're new and have some real proof of your god, I'll discuss it any time. Would love to talk about some real proof.

If you had real proof of God--if He showed Himself to you just as Jesus Christ showed Himself to Paul and you could not deny it--what would you do?

I would go on TV/internet... and present my real proof to everyone so we can all know the real deal. I think it would bring a serious amount of peace to the world, if we were all the same religion, and it was provable to be real. That's what a real god showing itself could bring.

That's not what happened on the Road to Emmaus. It was a revelation to Paul only, for Paul only, but it totally changed his life. He was a persecutor of Jesus previously. But he changed after that.

I will just tell you. Everything in your words tells me that if you saw God outright, you would mock, challenge, and be prideful toward Him, just as you are here.

In that case, it would certainly be worse for you. In which case, God in his mercy is sparing you Himself, because it would only "heap burning coal on your head".

In other words, you've heard of a "grace period"? This is yours. How good is God. He spares you the revealing because He knows what you would do with it, and it would just make things worse for you. So here you are, on His planet, breathing His air, eating His food, partaking in common grace. You say you want Him but I think maybe not, and He will spare you even that if it's best for you.

He's giving you every chance. You really want to see Him? You like to go outside? Start maybe by going outside. Notice what good things are there and thank Him. Then try to imagine what it might be like if you DID encounter Him, and not just for something to "prove".

The last thing it's about is how much money you drop in the plate, btw. Or anyway, it's not anywhere near the top.

None of the big things in the bible relating to god or Jesus can be proven to be true.

As for your reasons for god not showing itself to the world is pretty much nonsense because god could bring peace to the world if it wanted. But instead it chooses to hide and let mankind be divided and even waging war among all the different beliefs.

If I encountered god I'd ask it why it makes deformed babies, mental retardation, Downs, cancer...

I was curious about how much people drop in the plate at church, that's all. Everyone here was too afraid to answer and heaped more insults at me.

He will bring peace to the world. But as C.S. Lewis, former atheist, said--"when the author walks on the stage the play is over." That's it, Taz. When that happens, that's your last chance, that's my last chance, that's everyone's last chance. He's giving us some time here. Common grace and time. There will be no more division and no more war at the end. But if you're hoping for that, you really should not be.

All of those questions for God have one answer: sin. It wasn't in the plan. It is all twisted by sin. God could have wiped it all out right then. The entire plan could have been "aborted", right then--done. He did not.

Neither do I, nor you, have enough knowledge or wisdom to tell Down Syndrome or mentally retarded or cancer patients that their lives are cancelled or not worth it because they suffered. I don't know that and neither do you. Suffering is not so simple. I won't judge it so easily and neither should you.

But I will just end again by saying if your heart is to challenge God, it's a mercy to you that He does not reveal Himself now, because that just adds to your pile of sin for which you are not ready to repent. That's a merciful thing He's doing for you.

Here is that quote by C.S. Lewis about why God does not reveal Himself, one of my faves, from "Mere Christianity":

“God will invade. But I wonder whether people who ask God to interfere openly and directly in our world quite realise what it will be like when He does. When that happens, it is the end of the world. When the author walks on to the stage the play is over. God is going to invade, all right: but what is the good of saying you are on His side then, when you see the whole natural universe melting away like a dream and something else - something it never entered your head to conceive - comes crashing in; something so beautiful to some of us and so terrible to others that none of us will have any choice left? For this time it will God without disguise; something so overwhelming that it will strike either irresistible love or irresistible horror into every creature. It will be too late then to choose your side. There is no use saying you choose to lie down when it has become impossible to stand up. That will not be the time for choosing; it will be the time when we discover which side we really have chosen, whether we realised it before or not. Now, today, this moment, is our chance to choose the right side. God is holding back to give us that chance. It will not last for ever. We must take it or leave it.”

 

[Taz]

I actually first came here to see if anyone had any real proof about their god, and I'm still willing to talk real proof anytime. But that was a long time ago, the theists here can't answer my questions, that's why they heap so much abuse on me. All in good fun, I suppose, while keeping on the topics, or near them, lol. If you're new and have some real proof of your god, I'll discuss it any time. Would love to talk about some real proof.

If you had real proof of God--if He showed Himself to you just as Jesus Christ showed Himself to Paul and you could not deny it--what would you do?

I would go on TV/internet... and present my real proof to everyone so we can all know the real deal. I think it would bring a serious amount of peace to the world, if we were all the same religion, and it was provable to be real. That's what a real god showing itself could bring.

That's not what happened on the Road to Emmaus. It was a revelation to Paul only, for Paul only, but it totally changed his life. He was a persecutor of Jesus previously. But he changed after that.

I will just tell you. Everything in your words tells me that if you saw God outright, you would mock, challenge, and be prideful toward Him, just as you are here.

In that case, it would certainly be worse for you. In which case, God in his mercy is sparing you Himself, because it would only "heap burning coal on your head".

In other words, you've heard of a "grace period"? This is yours. How good is God. He spares you the revealing because He knows what you would do with it, and it would just make things worse for you. So here you are, on His planet, breathing His air, eating His food, partaking in common grace. You say you want Him but I think maybe not, and He will spare you even that if it's best for you.

He's giving you every chance. You really want to see Him? You like to go outside? Start maybe by going outside. Notice what good things are there and thank Him. Then try to imagine what it might be like if you DID encounter Him, and not just for something to "prove".

The last thing it's about is how much money you drop in the plate, btw. Or anyway, it's not anywhere near the top.

None of the big things in the bible relating to god or Jesus can be proven to be true.

As for your reasons for god not showing itself to the world is pretty much nonsense because god could bring peace to the world if it wanted. But instead it chooses to hide and let mankind be divided and even waging war among all the different beliefs.

If I encountered god I'd ask it why it makes deformed babies, mental retardation, Downs, cancer...

I was curious about how much people drop in the plate at church, that's all. Everyone here was too afraid to answer and heaped more insults at me.

He will bring peace to the world. But as C.S. Lewis, former atheist, said--"when the author walks on the stage the play is over." That's it, Taz. When that happens, that's your last chance, that's my last chance, that's everyone's last chance. He's giving us some time here. Common grace and time. There will be no more division and no more war at the end. But if you're hoping for that, you really should not be.

All of those questions for God have one answer: sin. It wasn't in the plan. It is all twisted by sin. God could have wiped it all out right then. The entire plan could have been "aborted", right then--done. He did not.

Neither do I, nor you, have enough knowledge or wisdom to tell Down Syndrome or mentally retarded or cancer patients that their lives are cancelled or not worth it because they suffered. I don't know that and neither do you. Suffering is not so simple. I won't judge it so easily and neither should you.

But I will just end again by saying if your heart is to challenge God, it's a mercy to you that He does not reveal Himself now, because that just adds to your pile of sin for which you are not ready to repent. That's a merciful thing He's doing for you.

Here is that quote by C.S. Lewis about why God does not reveal Himself, one of my faves, from "Mere Christianity":

“God will invade. But I wonder whether people who ask God to interfere openly and directly in our world quite realise what it will be like when He does. When that happens, it is the end of the world. When the author walks on to the stage the play is over. God is going to invade, all right: but what is the good of saying you are on His side then, when you see the whole natural universe melting away like a dream and something else - something it never entered your head to conceive - comes crashing in; something so beautiful to some of us and so terrible to others that none of us will have any choice left? For this time it will God without disguise; something so overwhelming that it will strike either irresistible love or irresistible horror into every creature. It will be too late then to choose your side. There is no use saying you choose to lie down when it has become impossible to stand up. That will not be the time for choosing; it will be the time when we discover which side we really have chosen, whether we realised it before or not. Now, today, this moment, is our chance to choose the right side. God is holding back to give us that chance. It will not last for ever. We must take it or leave it.”

How would god revealing himself add to my pile of sin? That makes no sense.
I'd ask god why he makes all those deformities... because it makes no sense that a real, caring god would make those.
Sin wasn't in god's plan? So god doesn't have complete control over his own creation? makes no sense again.
How do you know that god revealing itself is my last chance? Last chance for what? To stay ignorant?

 

[hobelim]

If you had real proof of God--if He showed Himself to you just as Jesus Christ showed Himself to Paul and you could not deny it--what would you do?

I would go on TV/internet... and present my real proof to everyone so we can all know the real deal. I think it would bring a serious amount of peace to the world, if we were all the same religion, and it was provable to be real. That's what a real god showing itself could bring.

That's not what happened on the Road to Emmaus. It was a revelation to Paul only, for Paul only, but it totally changed his life. He was a persecutor of Jesus previously. But he changed after that.

I will just tell you. Everything in your words tells me that if you saw God outright, you would mock, challenge, and be prideful toward Him, just as you are here.

In that case, it would certainly be worse for you. In which case, God in his mercy is sparing you Himself, because it would only "heap burning coal on your head".

In other words, you've heard of a "grace period"? This is yours. How good is God. He spares you the revealing because He knows what you would do with it, and it would just make things worse for you. So here you are, on His planet, breathing His air, eating His food, partaking in common grace. You say you want Him but I think maybe not, and He will spare you even that if it's best for you.

He's giving you every chance. You really want to see Him? You like to go outside? Start maybe by going outside. Notice what good things are there and thank Him. Then try to imagine what it might be like if you DID encounter Him, and not just for something to "prove".

The last thing it's about is how much money you drop in the plate, btw. Or anyway, it's not anywhere near the top.

None of the big things in the bible relating to god or Jesus can be proven to be true.

As for your reasons for god not showing itself to the world is pretty much nonsense because god could bring peace to the world if it wanted. But instead it chooses to hide and let mankind be divided and even waging war among all the different beliefs.

If I encountered god I'd ask it why it makes deformed babies, mental retardation, Downs, cancer...

I was curious about how much people drop in the plate at church, that's all. Everyone here was too afraid to answer and heaped more insults at me.

He will bring peace to the world. But as C.S. Lewis, former atheist, said--"when the author walks on the stage the play is over." That's it, Taz. When that happens, that's your last chance, that's my last chance, that's everyone's last chance. He's giving us some time here. Common grace and time. There will be no more division and no more war at the end. But if you're hoping for that, you really should not be.

All of those questions for God have one answer: sin. It wasn't in the plan. It is all twisted by sin. God could have wiped it all out right then. The entire plan could have been "aborted", right then--done. He did not.

Neither do I, nor you, have enough knowledge or wisdom to tell Down Syndrome or mentally retarded or cancer patients that their lives are cancelled or not worth it because they suffered. I don't know that and neither do you. Suffering is not so simple. I won't judge it so easily and neither should you.

But I will just end again by saying if your heart is to challenge God, it's a mercy to you that He does not reveal Himself now, because that just adds to your pile of sin for which you are not ready to repent. That's a merciful thing He's doing for you.

Here is that quote by C.S. Lewis about why God does not reveal Himself, one of my faves, from "Mere Christianity":

“God will invade. But I wonder whether people who ask God to interfere openly and directly in our world quite realise what it will be like when He does. When that happens, it is the end of the world. When the author walks on to the stage the play is over. God is going to invade, all right: but what is the good of saying you are on His side then, when you see the whole natural universe melting away like a dream and something else - something it never entered your head to conceive - comes crashing in; something so beautiful to some of us and so terrible to others that none of us will have any choice left? For this time it will God without disguise; something so overwhelming that it will strike either irresistible love or irresistible horror into every creature. It will be too late then to choose your side. There is no use saying you choose to lie down when it has become impossible to stand up. That will not be the time for choosing; it will be the time when we discover which side we really have chosen, whether we realised it before or not. Now, today, this moment, is our chance to choose the right side. God is holding back to give us that chance. It will not last for ever. We must take it or leave it.”

How would god revealing himself add to my pile of sin? That makes no sense.
I'd ask god why he makes all those deformities... because it makes no sense that a real, caring god would make those.
Sin wasn't in god's plan? So god doesn't have complete control over his own creation? makes no sense again.
How do you know that god revealing itself is my last chance? Last chance for what? To stay ignorant?

Jesus cleansed the lepers by teaching that the condition of the mind is what counts to God, not the condition of the body,.

Some people with deformities, missing limbs, or terminal diseases are more perfect and whole in the sight of God than other people with nothing physically wrong with them at all.

Look at yourself. As messed up as you are, at least what you have going for you, what will make God look on you with favor, is that you won't accept something into your mind until you understand it

 

[SweetSue92]

If you had real proof of God--if He showed Himself to you just as Jesus Christ showed Himself to Paul and you could not deny it--what would you do?

I would go on TV/internet... and present my real proof to everyone so we can all know the real deal. I think it would bring a serious amount of peace to the world, if we were all the same religion, and it was provable to be real. That's what a real god showing itself could bring.

That's not what happened on the Road to Emmaus. It was a revelation to Paul only, for Paul only, but it totally changed his life. He was a persecutor of Jesus previously. But he changed after that.

I will just tell you. Everything in your words tells me that if you saw God outright, you would mock, challenge, and be prideful toward Him, just as you are here.

In that case, it would certainly be worse for you. In which case, God in his mercy is sparing you Himself, because it would only "heap burning coal on your head".

In other words, you've heard of a "grace period"? This is yours. How good is God. He spares you the revealing because He knows what you would do with it, and it would just make things worse for you. So here you are, on His planet, breathing His air, eating His food, partaking in common grace. You say you want Him but I think maybe not, and He will spare you even that if it's best for you.

He's giving you every chance. You really want to see Him? You like to go outside? Start maybe by going outside. Notice what good things are there and thank Him. Then try to imagine what it might be like if you DID encounter Him, and not just for something to "prove".

The last thing it's about is how much money you drop in the plate, btw. Or anyway, it's not anywhere near the top.

None of the big things in the bible relating to god or Jesus can be proven to be true.

As for your reasons for god not showing itself to the world is pretty much nonsense because god could bring peace to the world if it wanted. But instead it chooses to hide and let mankind be divided and even waging war among all the different beliefs.

If I encountered god I'd ask it why it makes deformed babies, mental retardation, Downs, cancer...

I was curious about how much people drop in the plate at church, that's all. Everyone here was too afraid to answer and heaped more insults at me.

He will bring peace to the world. But as C.S. Lewis, former atheist, said--"when the author walks on the stage the play is over." That's it, Taz. When that happens, that's your last chance, that's my last chance, that's everyone's last chance. He's giving us some time here. Common grace and time. There will be no more division and no more war at the end. But if you're hoping for that, you really should not be.

All of those questions for God have one answer: sin. It wasn't in the plan. It is all twisted by sin. God could have wiped it all out right then. The entire plan could have been "aborted", right then--done. He did not.

Neither do I, nor you, have enough knowledge or wisdom to tell Down Syndrome or mentally retarded or cancer patients that their lives are cancelled or not worth it because they suffered. I don't know that and neither do you. Suffering is not so simple. I won't judge it so easily and neither should you.

But I will just end again by saying if your heart is to challenge God, it's a mercy to you that He does not reveal Himself now, because that just adds to your pile of sin for which you are not ready to repent. That's a merciful thing He's doing for you.

Here is that quote by C.S. Lewis about why God does not reveal Himself, one of my faves, from "Mere Christianity":

“God will invade. But I wonder whether people who ask God to interfere openly and directly in our world quite realise what it will be like when He does. When that happens, it is the end of the world. When the author walks on to the stage the play is over. God is going to invade, all right: but what is the good of saying you are on His side then, when you see the whole natural universe melting away like a dream and something else - something it never entered your head to conceive - comes crashing in; something so beautiful to some of us and so terrible to others that none of us will have any choice left? For this time it will God without disguise; something so overwhelming that it will strike either irresistible love or irresistible horror into every creature. It will be too late then to choose your side. There is no use saying you choose to lie down when it has become impossible to stand up. That will not be the time for choosing; it will be the time when we discover which side we really have chosen, whether we realised it before or not. Now, today, this moment, is our chance to choose the right side. God is holding back to give us that chance. It will not last for ever. We must take it or leave it.”

How would god revealing himself add to my pile of sin? That makes no sense.
I'd ask god why he makes all those deformities... because it makes no sense that a real, caring god would make those.
Sin wasn't in god's plan? So god doesn't have complete control over his own creation? makes no sense again.
How do you know that god revealing itself is my last chance? Last chance for what? To stay ignorant?

If you are going to confront God that's sinful. For starters.

Secondly, sin was not in God's plan, but He did give His first humans--really all of us--free will. Why? Otherwise they are robots. God is love. You cannot demand love or it's not love. You know this. I know this. He could have made automatons but then they wouldn't have loved Him. So He put them in the garden and gave them one command: do not eat of this fruit. Everything else is yours. Just don't do THIS.

It was a choice. They made the wrong choice. So they had to leave...sinful. And so we are to this day.

When God fully reveals Himself to all of us, it is ALL of our last chance. That is the end of the world, Taz. Then it's all over. Now, sometimes people feel that He has revealed Himself to us individually and that's different.

PS Up above I said that "sin was not in the plan". Sin was not God's perfect plan, but yes, He knew it would happen. There is a great deal of tension between omniscience and omnipotence and a great deal of things we just don't know. I'm okay with that. I figure if I could know all the answers, God wouldn't be God.

I don't want a God as small as my brain. Do you?

 

[hobelim]

If you are going to confront God that's sinful. For starters.

I disagree. When God told Moses to make a bronze statue for the people to turn to for healing because they were complaining about the difficulties they were experiencing by being free during the time of testing in the wilderness, the only right thing to do was to confront that..

They didn't and society degenerated for generations.

Until Hezekiah came along and destroyed the statue which was the only right thing to do in Gods eyes from the beginning...

Remember?

Jesus said that he would be lifted up by God like Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness...


What does that tell you?

 

[Taz]

I would go on TV/internet... and present my real proof to everyone so we can all know the real deal. I think it would bring a serious amount of peace to the world, if we were all the same religion, and it was provable to be real. That's what a real god showing itself could bring.

That's not what happened on the Road to Emmaus. It was a revelation to Paul only, for Paul only, but it totally changed his life. He was a persecutor of Jesus previously. But he changed after that.

I will just tell you. Everything in your words tells me that if you saw God outright, you would mock, challenge, and be prideful toward Him, just as you are here.

In that case, it would certainly be worse for you. In which case, God in his mercy is sparing you Himself, because it would only "heap burning coal on your head".

In other words, you've heard of a "grace period"? This is yours. How good is God. He spares you the revealing because He knows what you would do with it, and it would just make things worse for you. So here you are, on His planet, breathing His air, eating His food, partaking in common grace. You say you want Him but I think maybe not, and He will spare you even that if it's best for you.

He's giving you every chance. You really want to see Him? You like to go outside? Start maybe by going outside. Notice what good things are there and thank Him. Then try to imagine what it might be like if you DID encounter Him, and not just for something to "prove".

The last thing it's about is how much money you drop in the plate, btw. Or anyway, it's not anywhere near the top.

None of the big things in the bible relating to god or Jesus can be proven to be true.

As for your reasons for god not showing itself to the world is pretty much nonsense because god could bring peace to the world if it wanted. But instead it chooses to hide and let mankind be divided and even waging war among all the different beliefs.

If I encountered god I'd ask it why it makes deformed babies, mental retardation, Downs, cancer...

I was curious about how much people drop in the plate at church, that's all. Everyone here was too afraid to answer and heaped more insults at me.

He will bring peace to the world. But as C.S. Lewis, former atheist, said--"when the author walks on the stage the play is over." That's it, Taz. When that happens, that's your last chance, that's my last chance, that's everyone's last chance. He's giving us some time here. Common grace and time. There will be no more division and no more war at the end. But if you're hoping for that, you really should not be.

All of those questions for God have one answer: sin. It wasn't in the plan. It is all twisted by sin. God could have wiped it all out right then. The entire plan could have been "aborted", right then--done. He did not.

Neither do I, nor you, have enough knowledge or wisdom to tell Down Syndrome or mentally retarded or cancer patients that their lives are cancelled or not worth it because they suffered. I don't know that and neither do you. Suffering is not so simple. I won't judge it so easily and neither should you.

But I will just end again by saying if your heart is to challenge God, it's a mercy to you that He does not reveal Himself now, because that just adds to your pile of sin for which you are not ready to repent. That's a merciful thing He's doing for you.

Here is that quote by C.S. Lewis about why God does not reveal Himself, one of my faves, from "Mere Christianity":

“God will invade. But I wonder whether people who ask God to interfere openly and directly in our world quite realise what it will be like when He does. When that happens, it is the end of the world. When the author walks on to the stage the play is over. God is going to invade, all right: but what is the good of saying you are on His side then, when you see the whole natural universe melting away like a dream and something else - something it never entered your head to conceive - comes crashing in; something so beautiful to some of us and so terrible to others that none of us will have any choice left? For this time it will God without disguise; something so overwhelming that it will strike either irresistible love or irresistible horror into every creature. It will be too late then to choose your side. There is no use saying you choose to lie down when it has become impossible to stand up. That will not be the time for choosing; it will be the time when we discover which side we really have chosen, whether we realised it before or not. Now, today, this moment, is our chance to choose the right side. God is holding back to give us that chance. It will not last for ever. We must take it or leave it.”

How would god revealing himself add to my pile of sin? That makes no sense.
I'd ask god why he makes all those deformities... because it makes no sense that a real, caring god would make those.
Sin wasn't in god's plan? So god doesn't have complete control over his own creation? makes no sense again.
How do you know that god revealing itself is my last chance? Last chance for what? To stay ignorant?

Jesus cleansed the lepers by teaching that the condition of the mind is what counts to God, not the condition of the body,.

Some people with deformities, missing limbs, or terminal diseases are more perfect and whole in the sight of God than other people with nothing physically wrong with them at all.

Look at yourself. As messed up as you are, at least what you have going for you, what will make God look on you with favor, is that you won't accept something into your mind until you understand it

Not talking about lepers, I'm talking about children born deformed and in pain their whole short life. I could show you pictures from around the net, but they are quite gruesome. A real, caring god wouldn't make those on purpose. And you're right, I need to understand this, because it makes no sense whatsoever that you scapegoat a god who makes these atrocities as though it were nothing at all.

 

[Taz]

I would go on TV/internet... and present my real proof to everyone so we can all know the real deal. I think it would bring a serious amount of peace to the world, if we were all the same religion, and it was provable to be real. That's what a real god showing itself could bring.

That's not what happened on the Road to Emmaus. It was a revelation to Paul only, for Paul only, but it totally changed his life. He was a persecutor of Jesus previously. But he changed after that.

I will just tell you. Everything in your words tells me that if you saw God outright, you would mock, challenge, and be prideful toward Him, just as you are here.

In that case, it would certainly be worse for you. In which case, God in his mercy is sparing you Himself, because it would only "heap burning coal on your head".

In other words, you've heard of a "grace period"? This is yours. How good is God. He spares you the revealing because He knows what you would do with it, and it would just make things worse for you. So here you are, on His planet, breathing His air, eating His food, partaking in common grace. You say you want Him but I think maybe not, and He will spare you even that if it's best for you.

He's giving you every chance. You really want to see Him? You like to go outside? Start maybe by going outside. Notice what good things are there and thank Him. Then try to imagine what it might be like if you DID encounter Him, and not just for something to "prove".

The last thing it's about is how much money you drop in the plate, btw. Or anyway, it's not anywhere near the top.

None of the big things in the bible relating to god or Jesus can be proven to be true.

As for your reasons for god not showing itself to the world is pretty much nonsense because god could bring peace to the world if it wanted. But instead it chooses to hide and let mankind be divided and even waging war among all the different beliefs.

If I encountered god I'd ask it why it makes deformed babies, mental retardation, Downs, cancer...

I was curious about how much people drop in the plate at church, that's all. Everyone here was too afraid to answer and heaped more insults at me.

He will bring peace to the world. But as C.S. Lewis, former atheist, said--"when the author walks on the stage the play is over." That's it, Taz. When that happens, that's your last chance, that's my last chance, that's everyone's last chance. He's giving us some time here. Common grace and time. There will be no more division and no more war at the end. But if you're hoping for that, you really should not be.

All of those questions for God have one answer: sin. It wasn't in the plan. It is all twisted by sin. God could have wiped it all out right then. The entire plan could have been "aborted", right then--done. He did not.

Neither do I, nor you, have enough knowledge or wisdom to tell Down Syndrome or mentally retarded or cancer patients that their lives are cancelled or not worth it because they suffered. I don't know that and neither do you. Suffering is not so simple. I won't judge it so easily and neither should you.

But I will just end again by saying if your heart is to challenge God, it's a mercy to you that He does not reveal Himself now, because that just adds to your pile of sin for which you are not ready to repent. That's a merciful thing He's doing for you.

Here is that quote by C.S. Lewis about why God does not reveal Himself, one of my faves, from "Mere Christianity":

“God will invade. But I wonder whether people who ask God to interfere openly and directly in our world quite realise what it will be like when He does. When that happens, it is the end of the world. When the author walks on to the stage the play is over. God is going to invade, all right: but what is the good of saying you are on His side then, when you see the whole natural universe melting away like a dream and something else - something it never entered your head to conceive - comes crashing in; something so beautiful to some of us and so terrible to others that none of us will have any choice left? For this time it will God without disguise; something so overwhelming that it will strike either irresistible love or irresistible horror into every creature. It will be too late then to choose your side. There is no use saying you choose to lie down when it has become impossible to stand up. That will not be the time for choosing; it will be the time when we discover which side we really have chosen, whether we realised it before or not. Now, today, this moment, is our chance to choose the right side. God is holding back to give us that chance. It will not last for ever. We must take it or leave it.”

How would god revealing himself add to my pile of sin? That makes no sense.
I'd ask god why he makes all those deformities... because it makes no sense that a real, caring god would make those.
Sin wasn't in god's plan? So god doesn't have complete control over his own creation? makes no sense again.
How do you know that god revealing itself is my last chance? Last chance for what? To stay ignorant?

If you are going to confront God that's sinful. For starters.

Secondly, sin was not in God's plan, but He did give His first humans--really all of us--free will. Why? Otherwise they are robots. God is love. You cannot demand love or it's not love. You know this. I know this. He could have made automatons but then they wouldn't have loved Him. So He put them in the garden and gave them one command: do not eat of this fruit. Everything else is yours. Just don't do THIS.

It was a choice. They made the wrong choice. So they had to leave...sinful. And so we are to this day.

When God fully reveals Himself to all of us, it is ALL of our last chance. That is the end of the world, Taz. Then it's all over. Now, sometimes people feel that He has revealed Himself to us individually and that's different.

PS Up above I said that "sin was not in the plan". Sin was not God's perfect plan, but yes, He knew it would happen. There is a great deal of tension between omniscience and omnipotence and a great deal of things we just don't know. I'm okay with that. I figure if I could know all the answers, God wouldn't be God.

I don't want a God as small as my brain. Do you?

Why is it sinful to want to meet god? That doesn't make any sense.
So god made a creation that he knew he was going to lose control over. So why does it now demand that we worship it? And I'm paying for a fruit someone ate 6000 years ago? That makes no sense either.
So why would it be the end of the world if god revealed itself? Did you read that in a book or did He tell you that Himself?

 

[Erinwltr]

"What Happened to Church?" You and smug, presumptuous folks like you killed it. Best church experience I ever had was in a Mennonite church. Lots of laughter, smiles, singing and great food.

 

[hobelim]

That's not what happened on the Road to Emmaus. It was a revelation to Paul only, for Paul only, but it totally changed his life. He was a persecutor of Jesus previously. But he changed after that.

I will just tell you. Everything in your words tells me that if you saw God outright, you would mock, challenge, and be prideful toward Him, just as you are here.

In that case, it would certainly be worse for you. In which case, God in his mercy is sparing you Himself, because it would only "heap burning coal on your head".

In other words, you've heard of a "grace period"? This is yours. How good is God. He spares you the revealing because He knows what you would do with it, and it would just make things worse for you. So here you are, on His planet, breathing His air, eating His food, partaking in common grace. You say you want Him but I think maybe not, and He will spare you even that if it's best for you.

He's giving you every chance. You really want to see Him? You like to go outside? Start maybe by going outside. Notice what good things are there and thank Him. Then try to imagine what it might be like if you DID encounter Him, and not just for something to "prove".

The last thing it's about is how much money you drop in the plate, btw. Or anyway, it's not anywhere near the top.

None of the big things in the bible relating to god or Jesus can be proven to be true.

As for your reasons for god not showing itself to the world is pretty much nonsense because god could bring peace to the world if it wanted. But instead it chooses to hide and let mankind be divided and even waging war among all the different beliefs.

If I encountered god I'd ask it why it makes deformed babies, mental retardation, Downs, cancer...

I was curious about how much people drop in the plate at church, that's all. Everyone here was too afraid to answer and heaped more insults at me.

He will bring peace to the world. But as C.S. Lewis, former atheist, said--"when the author walks on the stage the play is over." That's it, Taz. When that happens, that's your last chance, that's my last chance, that's everyone's last chance. He's giving us some time here. Common grace and time. There will be no more division and no more war at the end. But if you're hoping for that, you really should not be.

All of those questions for God have one answer: sin. It wasn't in the plan. It is all twisted by sin. God could have wiped it all out right then. The entire plan could have been "aborted", right then--done. He did not.

Neither do I, nor you, have enough knowledge or wisdom to tell Down Syndrome or mentally retarded or cancer patients that their lives are cancelled or not worth it because they suffered. I don't know that and neither do you. Suffering is not so simple. I won't judge it so easily and neither should you.

But I will just end again by saying if your heart is to challenge God, it's a mercy to you that He does not reveal Himself now, because that just adds to your pile of sin for which you are not ready to repent. That's a merciful thing He's doing for you.

Here is that quote by C.S. Lewis about why God does not reveal Himself, one of my faves, from "Mere Christianity":

“God will invade. But I wonder whether people who ask God to interfere openly and directly in our world quite realise what it will be like when He does. When that happens, it is the end of the world. When the author walks on to the stage the play is over. God is going to invade, all right: but what is the good of saying you are on His side then, when you see the whole natural universe melting away like a dream and something else - something it never entered your head to conceive - comes crashing in; something so beautiful to some of us and so terrible to others that none of us will have any choice left? For this time it will God without disguise; something so overwhelming that it will strike either irresistible love or irresistible horror into every creature. It will be too late then to choose your side. There is no use saying you choose to lie down when it has become impossible to stand up. That will not be the time for choosing; it will be the time when we discover which side we really have chosen, whether we realised it before or not. Now, today, this moment, is our chance to choose the right side. God is holding back to give us that chance. It will not last for ever. We must take it or leave it.”

How would god revealing himself add to my pile of sin? That makes no sense.
I'd ask god why he makes all those deformities... because it makes no sense that a real, caring god would make those.
Sin wasn't in god's plan? So god doesn't have complete control over his own creation? makes no sense again.
How do you know that god revealing itself is my last chance? Last chance for what? To stay ignorant?

Jesus cleansed the lepers by teaching that the condition of the mind is what counts to God, not the condition of the body,.

Some people with deformities, missing limbs, or terminal diseases are more perfect and whole in the sight of God than other people with nothing physically wrong with them at all.

Look at yourself. As messed up as you are, at least what you have going for you, what will make God look on you with favor, is that you won't accept something into your mind until you understand it

Not talking about lepers, I'm talking about children born deformed and in pain their whole short life. I could show you pictures from around the net, but they are quite gruesome. A real, caring god wouldn't make those on purpose. And you're right, I need to understand this, because it makes no sense whatsoever that you scapegoat a god who makes these atrocities as though it were nothing at all.

It all goes back to whether you think that the creation story is about God creating matter or establishing light in a world that was already messed up for billions of years before he ever appeared to anyone on earth or sent anyone to teach humans about a better way of life, as it is in another world or sphere of higher intelligences.

 

[Taz]

None of the big things in the bible relating to god or Jesus can be proven to be true.

As for your reasons for god not showing itself to the world is pretty much nonsense because god could bring peace to the world if it wanted. But instead it chooses to hide and let mankind be divided and even waging war among all the different beliefs.

If I encountered god I'd ask it why it makes deformed babies, mental retardation, Downs, cancer...

I was curious about how much people drop in the plate at church, that's all. Everyone here was too afraid to answer and heaped more insults at me.

He will bring peace to the world. But as C.S. Lewis, former atheist, said--"when the author walks on the stage the play is over." That's it, Taz. When that happens, that's your last chance, that's my last chance, that's everyone's last chance. He's giving us some time here. Common grace and time. There will be no more division and no more war at the end. But if you're hoping for that, you really should not be.

All of those questions for God have one answer: sin. It wasn't in the plan. It is all twisted by sin. God could have wiped it all out right then. The entire plan could have been "aborted", right then--done. He did not.

Neither do I, nor you, have enough knowledge or wisdom to tell Down Syndrome or mentally retarded or cancer patients that their lives are cancelled or not worth it because they suffered. I don't know that and neither do you. Suffering is not so simple. I won't judge it so easily and neither should you.

But I will just end again by saying if your heart is to challenge God, it's a mercy to you that He does not reveal Himself now, because that just adds to your pile of sin for which you are not ready to repent. That's a merciful thing He's doing for you.

Here is that quote by C.S. Lewis about why God does not reveal Himself, one of my faves, from "Mere Christianity":

“God will invade. But I wonder whether people who ask God to interfere openly and directly in our world quite realise what it will be like when He does. When that happens, it is the end of the world. When the author walks on to the stage the play is over. God is going to invade, all right: but what is the good of saying you are on His side then, when you see the whole natural universe melting away like a dream and something else - something it never entered your head to conceive - comes crashing in; something so beautiful to some of us and so terrible to others that none of us will have any choice left? For this time it will God without disguise; something so overwhelming that it will strike either irresistible love or irresistible horror into every creature. It will be too late then to choose your side. There is no use saying you choose to lie down when it has become impossible to stand up. That will not be the time for choosing; it will be the time when we discover which side we really have chosen, whether we realised it before or not. Now, today, this moment, is our chance to choose the right side. God is holding back to give us that chance. It will not last for ever. We must take it or leave it.”

How would god revealing himself add to my pile of sin? That makes no sense.
I'd ask god why he makes all those deformities... because it makes no sense that a real, caring god would make those.
Sin wasn't in god's plan? So god doesn't have complete control over his own creation? makes no sense again.
How do you know that god revealing itself is my last chance? Last chance for what? To stay ignorant?

Jesus cleansed the lepers by teaching that the condition of the mind is what counts to God, not the condition of the body,.

Some people with deformities, missing limbs, or terminal diseases are more perfect and whole in the sight of God than other people with nothing physically wrong with them at all.

Look at yourself. As messed up as you are, at least what you have going for you, what will make God look on you with favor, is that you won't accept something into your mind until you understand it

Not talking about lepers, I'm talking about children born deformed and in pain their whole short life. I could show you pictures from around the net, but they are quite gruesome. A real, caring god wouldn't make those on purpose. And you're right, I need to understand this, because it makes no sense whatsoever that you scapegoat a god who makes these atrocities as though it were nothing at all.

It all goes back to whether you think that the creation story is about God creating matter or establishing light in a world that was already messed up for billions of years before he ever appeared to anyone on earth or sent anyone to teach people about a better way of life, as it is in another world.

So you think god is an alien who came to earth to transform the ape-like beings that were already here? You could be right.

 

[Taz]

"What Happened to Church?" You and smug, presumptuous folks like you killed it. Best church experience I ever had was in a Mennonite church. Lots of laughter, smiles, singing and great food.

What did you drop in the collection plate?

 

[Erinwltr]

"What Happened to Church?" You and smug, presumptuous folks like you killed it. Best church experience I ever had was in a Mennonite church. Lots of laughter, smiles, singing and great food.

What did you drop in the collection plate?

I was just a kid, broke and without a home. So nothing. They didn't care one single bit.

 

[hobelim]

He will bring peace to the world. But as C.S. Lewis, former atheist, said--"when the author walks on the stage the play is over." That's it, Taz. When that happens, that's your last chance, that's my last chance, that's everyone's last chance. He's giving us some time here. Common grace and time. There will be no more division and no more war at the end. But if you're hoping for that, you really should not be.

All of those questions for God have one answer: sin. It wasn't in the plan. It is all twisted by sin. God could have wiped it all out right then. The entire plan could have been "aborted", right then--done. He did not.

Neither do I, nor you, have enough knowledge or wisdom to tell Down Syndrome or mentally retarded or cancer patients that their lives are cancelled or not worth it because they suffered. I don't know that and neither do you. Suffering is not so simple. I won't judge it so easily and neither should you.

But I will just end again by saying if your heart is to challenge God, it's a mercy to you that He does not reveal Himself now, because that just adds to your pile of sin for which you are not ready to repent. That's a merciful thing He's doing for you.

Here is that quote by C.S. Lewis about why God does not reveal Himself, one of my faves, from "Mere Christianity":

“God will invade. But I wonder whether people who ask God to interfere openly and directly in our world quite realise what it will be like when He does. When that happens, it is the end of the world. When the author walks on to the stage the play is over. God is going to invade, all right: but what is the good of saying you are on His side then, when you see the whole natural universe melting away like a dream and something else - something it never entered your head to conceive - comes crashing in; something so beautiful to some of us and so terrible to others that none of us will have any choice left? For this time it will God without disguise; something so overwhelming that it will strike either irresistible love or irresistible horror into every creature. It will be too late then to choose your side. There is no use saying you choose to lie down when it has become impossible to stand up. That will not be the time for choosing; it will be the time when we discover which side we really have chosen, whether we realised it before or not. Now, today, this moment, is our chance to choose the right side. God is holding back to give us that chance. It will not last for ever. We must take it or leave it.”

How would god revealing himself add to my pile of sin? That makes no sense.
I'd ask god why he makes all those deformities... because it makes no sense that a real, caring god would make those.
Sin wasn't in god's plan? So god doesn't have complete control over his own creation? makes no sense again.
How do you know that god revealing itself is my last chance? Last chance for what? To stay ignorant?

Jesus cleansed the lepers by teaching that the condition of the mind is what counts to God, not the condition of the body,.

Some people with deformities, missing limbs, or terminal diseases are more perfect and whole in the sight of God than other people with nothing physically wrong with them at all.

Look at yourself. As messed up as you are, at least what you have going for you, what will make God look on you with favor, is that you won't accept something into your mind until you understand it

Not talking about lepers, I'm talking about children born deformed and in pain their whole short life. I could show you pictures from around the net, but they are quite gruesome. A real, caring god wouldn't make those on purpose. And you're right, I need to understand this, because it makes no sense whatsoever that you scapegoat a god who makes these atrocities as though it were nothing at all.

It all goes back to whether you think that the creation story is about God creating matter or establishing light in a world that was already messed up for billions of years before he ever appeared to anyone on earth or sent anyone to teach people about a better way of life, as it is in another world.

So you think god is an alien who came to earth to transform the ape-like beings that were already here? You could be right.

In a manner of speaking, yes.

Jesus did say that his kingdom was not of this world.

What else could that mean if not that he and his teaching was from another world of highly intelligent and advanced "living beings"?


Remember the story of Adam? God breathed the breath of life into his nostrils and he became a "living being"

"The man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil."

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

 

[hadit]

My grandfather left the Amish as a young man. I know about focus on the external at the expense of the internal. What you do in the outside doesn't help much when God sees the heart clearly.

Does that apply to me as well?

Are you actually looking for reassurance that the God you make a hobby out of mocking still loves you despite your buffoonery?

Why, he wouldn't? I've challenged god to show me that he's real, but yet he hides still. I'm trying to call him out. Yet still he hides.

IOW, you've demanded that God act the way you want Him to act, instead of actually asking Him to reveal Himself. And when He does reveal Himself, you simply ignore Him and act like He did nothing.

So what am I looking for?

You'll never see it because you really don't want to.

 

[hadit]

"What Happened to Church?" You and smug, presumptuous folks like you killed it. Best church experience I ever had was in a Mennonite church. Lots of laughter, smiles, singing and great food.

Conservative Conference, Black Bumper? Where was it, I might have relatives there.

And yes, great food, and lots of it.