What Happened to Church?

[Cecilie1200]

God made the universe with the conditions there at the beginning for humans to choose between good and evil. Free will is pointless if you don't have the option of being wrong.

It is an interesting question to try to resolve WHY did God create the Universe, the galaxies, and the Earth ??

My hypothesis about this is the classic Lonely God theory -- He/She/It wanted to have friends.

Well, we are told that God created mankind for companionship, so that's certainly an aspect. On the other hand, the universe is a rather large and complex endeavor for just that one purpose. Also, it's never been my experience of God that He does anything without multiple purposes being fulfilled.

It is my belief that there is a lot more going on here than just this one planet and the short little lives we live on it. I think there is an ultimate Purpose for which we are destined, and for which this life is designed to prepare us.

And no, I have absolutely no idea what that might be.

Maybe god wanted lots of friends and there's life all throughout the universe. Ever think of that?

Maybe when you read my posts, you should attempt to understand the meaning of the words. Ever think of THAT?

So god is a lonely loser and has to make up his own friends? Is that why you follow him?

Is there some part of "This thread is not about how much you hate God and think Christians are stupid" that you are having trouble grasping?

 

[Cecilie1200]

I went to a new church for the first time this morning (because I moved to a new city a few months back, and now I need to find a new church home), and I have to say I don't feel even remotely sufficiently churched.

Maybe I'm just really old-fashioned. I grew up in the same two churches throughout my life; in fact, my husband and I were married in one of them. They were both good-sized, but neither was a "mega-church", and it was not only possible to know everyone in the church, it was impossible NOT to. The services took upwards of two hours from start to finish, and they happened three times a week. When the service ended, there were often people still praying at the altars (this church doesn't even HAVE altars), and it took at least another hour for people to get done talking and interacting and head out the doors. The song service was inclusive; the entire congregation worshipping God through music together.

This service was over in an hour; the song service was the "worship team" - basically a music group - giving a performance with lights and videos on screens and a FOG MACHINE, for crying out loud. It was a lot more like going to a concert than anything interactive. Everyone was out the door in about fifteen minutes, the pastors (they apparently have a huge heirarchy of them) were nowhere in sight, and there was no effort made to even identify new attendees, much less meet them and make them feel welcome. The sermon was still on-point in the Word of God, and they don't seem to have edited out the "icky" parts so many churches do - y'know, references to the Crucifixion, blood, death, Hell, all that uncomfortable stuff - but I have to wonder how you're supposed to learn and grow and connect with the Christian community and draw closer to God when an hour a week of listening to other people perform is all the effort you put into it.

Try the next church. Preferably one that adheres to the Word and Spirit of God with no theatrics. When I was a kid, I and my best friend went to about every church in the area. I determined the best local one was the Black M.E. (whatever that means) Baptist church.

Oh, I am. And I'm doing a lot of praying on the subject, because God has somewhere He needs me to be, and something He needs me to do, and I need to be listening for His directions to it.

God wants me to tell you, you should be in the kitchen mopping the floor.

I have no idea if God wants me to tell you to get back on-topic and stop trying to derail the thread, but I want to tell you that, so I'm doing so.

I'll get back on topic, have you even mopped a floor in a church?

 

[Picaro]

I went to a new church for the first time this morning (because I moved to a new city a few months back, and now I need to find a new church home), and I have to say I don't feel even remotely sufficiently churched.

Maybe I'm just really old-fashioned. I grew up in the same two churches throughout my life; in fact, my husband and I were married in one of them. They were both good-sized, but neither was a "mega-church", and it was not only possible to know everyone in the church, it was impossible NOT to. The services took upwards of two hours from start to finish, and they happened three times a week. When the service ended, there were often people still praying at the altars (this church doesn't even HAVE altars), and it took at least another hour for people to get done talking and interacting and head out the doors. The song service was inclusive; the entire congregation worshipping God through music together.

This service was over in an hour; the song service was the "worship team" - basically a music group - giving a performance with lights and videos on screens and a FOG MACHINE, for crying out loud. It was a lot more like going to a concert than anything interactive. Everyone was out the door in about fifteen minutes, the pastors (they apparently have a huge heirarchy of them) were nowhere in sight, and there was no effort made to even identify new attendees, much less meet them and make them feel welcome. The sermon was still on-point in the Word of God, and they don't seem to have edited out the "icky" parts so many churches do - y'know, references to the Crucifixion, blood, death, Hell, all that uncomfortable stuff - but I have to wonder how you're supposed to learn and grow and connect with the Christian community and draw closer to God when an hour a week of listening to other people perform is all the effort you put into it.

I'm agnostic, we only go to services on holidays and special events shows anyway, but our experiences have been that the larger churches can be very impersonal at first, but like attending any large group functions it takes a while to get to know people, and I work with a lot of the charity functions here locally, food banks and the like and meet a lot of people through that, so maybe just stat joining groups, ignore first impressions for a while and then decide.

Church is not a social club, and I am not looking for a social club. In truth, if I didn't know that growing and developing in my faith requires interaction with other believers, I'd avoid the whole concept of church.

Church serves multiple very important and specific functions, and this thread is about the fact that "modern trends" in churches do not fulfill any of them.

Some of my best friends are obnoxious asshats in real life, so don't be a snob. Christians aren't required to live like dumpster divers and homeless beggars, and their churches don't have to be held in ruined crappy buildings. I work with churches big and small, and don't find a lot of differences in character of the people attending either, except for the insurance salesmen and the like who are only there to 'network'.

No one suggested "ruined, crappy buildings". But again, Christians attend church for specific purposes, and form follows function. The kind of churches I'm having a problem with are designed for purposes other than the ones they're supposed to be.

Character of the people is not the issue, since Christianity and church attendance are not ever supposed to be about looking at other people, anyway. Again, I am not looking for a social club.

Well, actually, yes they are supposed to be social clubs as one of their functions, but to each their own. You want to a place to perform magical rituals and feed your personal needs, use your closet. Churches are open to the public, Christians are to seek fellowship, do good works of all kinds, create communities of believers, etc. No other reason for a church to exist, except to 'socialize'.

 

[Picaro]

My first time attending any church service was when I about 16.
I attended several churches of different denominations for ~a year.

While most seemed nice and inviting, they went against what my parents taught me,

I was taught to accept and respect the differences people often have. I stopped going after thinking they were asking me to dismiss what I’ve been taught.

Well, my family weer Baptists, so we are used to arguing all the time, not being an organized sect. I have no problem attending anywhere, and do when asked by friends, from Reformed synagogues to Catholic midnight Christmas masses to Pentacostal Madness any night of the week. Personally the Jewish synagogue has the best musicians and vocalists, so we always accept invites to go to that one, mostly 'folk' music and some classical stuff, some 'traditional' Jewish songs, some sound great, some just annoying.

While I enjoy attending other people's churches and learning more about the faiths that inform their lives, the point is not - again - socializing and enjoying the performances.

Finding a church home and attending it regularly is about learning and developing understanding about the truth of the universe.

Well, you need a library, not a church. Pastors and ministers aren't magicians and psychics, they're just teachers and hopefully help provide leadership and direction, and yes, horror of horrors, some of the best are also entertainers, some very good ones at that. Not all of theology is about Deep Thoughts N Stuff; Jesus and the Apostles were party animals along with the other activities and goals, too. The early church services were indeed about 'singing' and 'rejoicing'; much of the scriptures were actually sung out loud, not spoken as in sermons popular today. Bet you didn't know that.

In any case, good luck, but I think you're already limiting yourself to personal prejudices and making it tough on yourself.

 

[Taz]

So your god gives out 72 virgins like Allah does? Does your god tell you to kill Jews and Christians?

Get. Back. On. Topic.

You will not be hijacking this thread like you try to do with every religious thread.

That's your answer when you're stumped.

No, that's my answer when you try to make the topic "Look at me! Look at me! I hate God, and Christians are stooopid!"

Now get back on topic and stop piddling on the rug, Fido.

Does your god give out 72 virgins at the church you go to, or is that some other god?

So different churches and religion means different gods?

 

[Taz]

Avoid that church, then.

Problem is, it's far too many churches these days, and it makes me concerned for the Church in general.

There's not a lot I, as an individual, can do about it, but Christians need to be aware of how much they've let the world creep in and infect their thinking.

Either they preach God's word and his Spirit is in the building, or not.

It's not that simple. There's preaching God's word, and then there's preaching God's word.

Let's go back to the church I was in Sunday. Technically, the sermon was in the Word, and it was Biblically correct. The problem with it was that it was on a level more appropriate to a children's Sunday school class. My third-grader would have found it profound and revelatory, but I would have serious questions about any adult - even a non-Christian - who felt greatly edified and enlightened by being informed that envy and coveting rot your spirit and lead to unhappiness. That's not exactly a newsflash.

And that is only addressing ONE of the ways in which church is supposed to enrich us and mature us in our relationship with God.

The preacher has to talk down to people and this surprises you?

You don't understand a frigging thing you ever read, and that surprises me not at all.

You just said it was like a Sunday school class. So he was talk8ng down to people. What don’t you get?

 

[Taz]

God doesn't need our money, so finding god should be free. You've been scammed. Or did Jesus have ushers hit people up for money every time they came to hear him speak?

Get. Back. On. Topic.

I swear, my 3-month-old kitten has a longer attention span than you do.

We're talking about church. What's this thread about anyways?

See above, re: no attention span.

There's an OP. Go read it, dimwit.

So I was asking if Jesus' church/ministry had ushers strong arming people for money?

And I was answering, yet again, that this thread is not in any way about money, or about your pathological obsession with other people's money.

For the record, every time you try to drag the thread down your "But MONEY!" tangent, that is going to be the answer, so you might as well write it down somewhere so you can remember.

So he didn’t by your response. So why rip people off today? Should christ’s ministry be free? And what about poor people, I never see them at church.

 

[Taz]

Can I find god without giving money to a church? If the answer is no, then you're trying to scam me.

No. As long as your focus is on hoarding your material goods and wealth, you can never find God. You can't even begin to LOOK for Him when your eyes are on your wallet.

God expects us to give of ourselves and to sacrifice, not because HE needs it, but because WE need it to become better people.

So the ultimate hoarder of wealth, the Pope, hasn't found god yet? Is that your final answer? ;biggrin:

Did you miss the several different times I have already stated that I am not Catholic? Quite obviously, I think the Catholic Church is mistaken in its doctrine and practice, since I have chosen not to join them. Beyond that, the relationship to God between that church and/or any of its members is none of my business.

I will state, in their defense, that the Catholic Church does and has done more to directly aid the needy throughout its history than any of the sanctimonious leftwingers who like to take potshots at them have ever even contemplated.

So because YOU haven't joined the Pope's brach of Christianity, he's wrong?

In what way?

Look up "Cause and Effect", Mensa Boy. He's not wrong because I haven't joined his church. I haven't joined his church because I believe him - and it - to be wrong.

As with everything else, you got it ass-backward.

Also, this is not a thread about the doctrinal differences between Catholics and Protestants, and it's not going to become one. Feel free to Google it.

But the pope thinks he’s right and he has more pull and followers than you do.

 

[TheOldSchool]

I went to a new church for the first time this morning (because I moved to a new city a few months back, and now I need to find a new church home), and I have to say I don't feel even remotely sufficiently churched.

Maybe I'm just really old-fashioned. I grew up in the same two churches throughout my life; in fact, my husband and I were married in one of them. They were both good-sized, but neither was a "mega-church", and it was not only possible to know everyone in the church, it was impossible NOT to. The services took upwards of two hours from start to finish, and they happened three times a week. When the service ended, there were often people still praying at the altars (this church doesn't even HAVE altars), and it took at least another hour for people to get done talking and interacting and head out the doors. The song service was inclusive; the entire congregation worshipping God through music together.

This service was over in an hour; the song service was the "worship team" - basically a music group - giving a performance with lights and videos on screens and a FOG MACHINE, for crying out loud. It was a lot more like going to a concert than anything interactive. Everyone was out the door in about fifteen minutes, the pastors (they apparently have a huge heirarchy of them) were nowhere in sight, and there was no effort made to even identify new attendees, much less meet them and make them feel welcome. The sermon was still on-point in the Word of God, and they don't seem to have edited out the "icky" parts so many churches do - y'know, references to the Crucifixion, blood, death, Hell, all that uncomfortable stuff - but I have to wonder how you're supposed to learn and grow and connect with the Christian community and draw closer to God when an hour a week of listening to other people perform is all the effort you put into it.

2 hour service? What a colossal waste of time. Think of the skills you could teach yourself dedicating 2 hours a week to it instead of sitting in a pew indulging your imagination.

 

[Taz]

It is an interesting question to try to resolve WHY did God create the Universe, the galaxies, and the Earth ??

My hypothesis about this is the classic Lonely God theory -- He/She/It wanted to have friends.

Well, we are told that God created mankind for companionship, so that's certainly an aspect. On the other hand, the universe is a rather large and complex endeavor for just that one purpose. Also, it's never been my experience of God that He does anything without multiple purposes being fulfilled.

It is my belief that there is a lot more going on here than just this one planet and the short little lives we live on it. I think there is an ultimate Purpose for which we are destined, and for which this life is designed to prepare us.

And no, I have absolutely no idea what that might be.

Maybe god wanted lots of friends and there's life all throughout the universe. Ever think of that?

Maybe when you read my posts, you should attempt to understand the meaning of the words. Ever think of THAT?

So god is a lonely loser and has to make up his own friends? Is that why you follow him?

Is there some part of "This thread is not about how much you hate God and think Christians are stupid" that you are having trouble grasping?

So back to church then, do you go to one of those creationist churches?

 

[Cecilie1200]

I went to a new church for the first time this morning (because I moved to a new city a few months back, and now I need to find a new church home), and I have to say I don't feel even remotely sufficiently churched.

Maybe I'm just really old-fashioned. I grew up in the same two churches throughout my life; in fact, my husband and I were married in one of them. They were both good-sized, but neither was a "mega-church", and it was not only possible to know everyone in the church, it was impossible NOT to. The services took upwards of two hours from start to finish, and they happened three times a week. When the service ended, there were often people still praying at the altars (this church doesn't even HAVE altars), and it took at least another hour for people to get done talking and interacting and head out the doors. The song service was inclusive; the entire congregation worshipping God through music together.

This service was over in an hour; the song service was the "worship team" - basically a music group - giving a performance with lights and videos on screens and a FOG MACHINE, for crying out loud. It was a lot more like going to a concert than anything interactive. Everyone was out the door in about fifteen minutes, the pastors (they apparently have a huge heirarchy of them) were nowhere in sight, and there was no effort made to even identify new attendees, much less meet them and make them feel welcome. The sermon was still on-point in the Word of God, and they don't seem to have edited out the "icky" parts so many churches do - y'know, references to the Crucifixion, blood, death, Hell, all that uncomfortable stuff - but I have to wonder how you're supposed to learn and grow and connect with the Christian community and draw closer to God when an hour a week of listening to other people perform is all the effort you put into it.

I'm agnostic, we only go to services on holidays and special events shows anyway, but our experiences have been that the larger churches can be very impersonal at first, but like attending any large group functions it takes a while to get to know people, and I work with a lot of the charity functions here locally, food banks and the like and meet a lot of people through that, so maybe just stat joining groups, ignore first impressions for a while and then decide.

Church is not a social club, and I am not looking for a social club. In truth, if I didn't know that growing and developing in my faith requires interaction with other believers, I'd avoid the whole concept of church.

Church serves multiple very important and specific functions, and this thread is about the fact that "modern trends" in churches do not fulfill any of them.

Some of my best friends are obnoxious asshats in real life, so don't be a snob. Christians aren't required to live like dumpster divers and homeless beggars, and their churches don't have to be held in ruined crappy buildings. I work with churches big and small, and don't find a lot of differences in character of the people attending either, except for the insurance salesmen and the like who are only there to 'network'.

No one suggested "ruined, crappy buildings". But again, Christians attend church for specific purposes, and form follows function. The kind of churches I'm having a problem with are designed for purposes other than the ones they're supposed to be.

Character of the people is not the issue, since Christianity and church attendance are not ever supposed to be about looking at other people, anyway. Again, I am not looking for a social club.

Well, actually, yes they are supposed to be social clubs as one of their functions, but to each their own. You want to a place to perform magical rituals and feed your personal needs, use your closet. Churches are open to the public, Christians are to seek fellowship, do good works of all kinds, create communities of believers, etc. No other reason for a church to exist, except to 'socialize'.

You are mistaken, and this mistaken attitude is exactly why so many churches have deteriorated and become ineffectual.

The primary purpose of attending church is the same as the primary purpose of everything in our relationship with God: to serve Him and to bring us closer to Him. Interaction with other Christians aids that in a number of ways, but it is a means to the end, not the end itself.

 

[Cecilie1200]

My first time attending any church service was when I about 16.
I attended several churches of different denominations for ~a year.

While most seemed nice and inviting, they went against what my parents taught me,

I was taught to accept and respect the differences people often have. I stopped going after thinking they were asking me to dismiss what I’ve been taught.

Well, my family weer Baptists, so we are used to arguing all the time, not being an organized sect. I have no problem attending anywhere, and do when asked by friends, from Reformed synagogues to Catholic midnight Christmas masses to Pentacostal Madness any night of the week. Personally the Jewish synagogue has the best musicians and vocalists, so we always accept invites to go to that one, mostly 'folk' music and some classical stuff, some 'traditional' Jewish songs, some sound great, some just annoying.

While I enjoy attending other people's churches and learning more about the faiths that inform their lives, the point is not - again - socializing and enjoying the performances.

Finding a church home and attending it regularly is about learning and developing understanding about the truth of the universe.

Well, you need a library, not a church. Pastors and ministers aren't magicians and psychics, they're just teachers and hopefully help provide leadership and direction, and yes, horror of horrors, some of the best are also entertainers, some very good ones at that. Not all of theology is about Deep Thoughts N Stuff; Jesus and the Apostles were party animals along with the other activities and goals, too. The early church services were indeed about 'singing' and 'rejoicing'; much of the scriptures were actually sung out loud, not spoken as in sermons popular today. Bet you didn't know that.

In any case, good luck, but I think you're already limiting yourself to personal prejudices and making it tough on yourself.

Well, you still don't understand much of anything about why God instructed us to forsake not the gathering together of ourselves. I can promise you, it wasn't to have potlucks with homemade banana pudding (although I have no objection to potlucks with homemade banana pudding).

 

[Cecilie1200]

Get. Back. On. Topic.

You will not be hijacking this thread like you try to do with every religious thread.

That's your answer when you're stumped.

No, that's my answer when you try to make the topic "Look at me! Look at me! I hate God, and Christians are stooopid!"

Now get back on topic and stop piddling on the rug, Fido.

Does your god give out 72 virgins at the church you go to, or is that some other god?

So different churches and religion means different gods?

Unless you can explain to me what this incoherent question has to do with the topic, you know what the answer is going to be.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Problem is, it's far too many churches these days, and it makes me concerned for the Church in general.

There's not a lot I, as an individual, can do about it, but Christians need to be aware of how much they've let the world creep in and infect their thinking.

Either they preach God's word and his Spirit is in the building, or not.

It's not that simple. There's preaching God's word, and then there's preaching God's word.

Let's go back to the church I was in Sunday. Technically, the sermon was in the Word, and it was Biblically correct. The problem with it was that it was on a level more appropriate to a children's Sunday school class. My third-grader would have found it profound and revelatory, but I would have serious questions about any adult - even a non-Christian - who felt greatly edified and enlightened by being informed that envy and coveting rot your spirit and lead to unhappiness. That's not exactly a newsflash.

And that is only addressing ONE of the ways in which church is supposed to enrich us and mature us in our relationship with God.

The preacher has to talk down to people and this surprises you?

You don't understand a frigging thing you ever read, and that surprises me not at all.

You just said it was like a Sunday school class. So he was talk8ng down to people. What don’t you get?

Why you think you're in any position to feel superior to any other living creature on Earth, and why you think anyone is interested in listening to you delude yourself about it.

And no, dear, he wasn't talking down to people. I would object to that, were it the case, but in this case I'm objecting because he actually didn't have any deeper revelation to offer. Man's halfway to ordination, and he's no more advanced in Christianity than a children's Sunday School class. I have a problem with that.

Admittedly, I've been very spoiled. Two of the three long-term pastors in my life routinely made reference to things like the meanings of key words in the original Greek text (or Hebrew, or Aramaic, or whatever was appropriate) and classical philosophy and theologians like Saint Francis de Assisi. At the very least, I would expect the guy to cross-reference to other relevant places in the Bible which explain what God DOES expect us to do, as Christians, about envy and covetousness.

I'm afraid, "Psychology Today tells us that envy is an emotion which occurs when a person lacks another's superior quality, achievement, or possession and either desires it or wishes that the other lacked it" is not really gonna cut it for me spiritually.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Get. Back. On. Topic.

I swear, my 3-month-old kitten has a longer attention span than you do.

We're talking about church. What's this thread about anyways?

See above, re: no attention span.

There's an OP. Go read it, dimwit.

So I was asking if Jesus' church/ministry had ushers strong arming people for money?

And I was answering, yet again, that this thread is not in any way about money, or about your pathological obsession with other people's money.

For the record, every time you try to drag the thread down your "But MONEY!" tangent, that is going to be the answer, so you might as well write it down somewhere so you can remember.

So he didn’t by your response. So why rip people off today? Should christ’s ministry be free? And what about poor people, I never see them at church.

 

[Cecilie1200]

No. As long as your focus is on hoarding your material goods and wealth, you can never find God. You can't even begin to LOOK for Him when your eyes are on your wallet.

God expects us to give of ourselves and to sacrifice, not because HE needs it, but because WE need it to become better people.

So the ultimate hoarder of wealth, the Pope, hasn't found god yet? Is that your final answer? ;biggrin:

Did you miss the several different times I have already stated that I am not Catholic? Quite obviously, I think the Catholic Church is mistaken in its doctrine and practice, since I have chosen not to join them. Beyond that, the relationship to God between that church and/or any of its members is none of my business.

I will state, in their defense, that the Catholic Church does and has done more to directly aid the needy throughout its history than any of the sanctimonious leftwingers who like to take potshots at them have ever even contemplated.

So because YOU haven't joined the Pope's brach of Christianity, he's wrong?

In what way?

Look up "Cause and Effect", Mensa Boy. He's not wrong because I haven't joined his church. I haven't joined his church because I believe him - and it - to be wrong.

As with everything else, you got it ass-backward.

Also, this is not a thread about the doctrinal differences between Catholics and Protestants, and it's not going to become one. Feel free to Google it.

But the pope thinks he’s right and he has more pull and followers than you do.

Right and wrong aren't decided by a vote.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I went to a new church for the first time this morning (because I moved to a new city a few months back, and now I need to find a new church home), and I have to say I don't feel even remotely sufficiently churched.

Maybe I'm just really old-fashioned. I grew up in the same two churches throughout my life; in fact, my husband and I were married in one of them. They were both good-sized, but neither was a "mega-church", and it was not only possible to know everyone in the church, it was impossible NOT to. The services took upwards of two hours from start to finish, and they happened three times a week. When the service ended, there were often people still praying at the altars (this church doesn't even HAVE altars), and it took at least another hour for people to get done talking and interacting and head out the doors. The song service was inclusive; the entire congregation worshipping God through music together.

This service was over in an hour; the song service was the "worship team" - basically a music group - giving a performance with lights and videos on screens and a FOG MACHINE, for crying out loud. It was a lot more like going to a concert than anything interactive. Everyone was out the door in about fifteen minutes, the pastors (they apparently have a huge heirarchy of them) were nowhere in sight, and there was no effort made to even identify new attendees, much less meet them and make them feel welcome. The sermon was still on-point in the Word of God, and they don't seem to have edited out the "icky" parts so many churches do - y'know, references to the Crucifixion, blood, death, Hell, all that uncomfortable stuff - but I have to wonder how you're supposed to learn and grow and connect with the Christian community and draw closer to God when an hour a week of listening to other people perform is all the effort you put into it.

2 hour service? What a colossal waste of time. Think of the skills you could teach yourself dedicating 2 hours a week to it instead of sitting in a pew indulging your imagination.

The skills I want to spend that time developing are love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Humility, patience, and compassion would also be good. Which is why I want to spend that two hours a week - or even more (!) - in what has been the primary place for learning those skills for millennia.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Well, we are told that God created mankind for companionship, so that's certainly an aspect. On the other hand, the universe is a rather large and complex endeavor for just that one purpose. Also, it's never been my experience of God that He does anything without multiple purposes being fulfilled.

It is my belief that there is a lot more going on here than just this one planet and the short little lives we live on it. I think there is an ultimate Purpose for which we are destined, and for which this life is designed to prepare us.

And no, I have absolutely no idea what that might be.

Maybe god wanted lots of friends and there's life all throughout the universe. Ever think of that?

Maybe when you read my posts, you should attempt to understand the meaning of the words. Ever think of THAT?

So god is a lonely loser and has to make up his own friends? Is that why you follow him?

Is there some part of "This thread is not about how much you hate God and think Christians are stupid" that you are having trouble grasping?

So back to church then, do you go to one of those creationist churches?

NOW what are you babbling about? What in the hell is "one of those creationist churches" supposed to mean?

Never mind. I decided I don't care. Here, figure it out for yourself.

Assemblies of God (USA) Official Web Site | Our Core Doctrines

 

[Borillar]

I went to a new church for the first time this morning (because I moved to a new city a few months back, and now I need to find a new church home), and I have to say I don't feel even remotely sufficiently churched.

Maybe I'm just really old-fashioned. I grew up in the same two churches throughout my life; in fact, my husband and I were married in one of them. They were both good-sized, but neither was a "mega-church", and it was not only possible to know everyone in the church, it was impossible NOT to. The services took upwards of two hours from start to finish, and they happened three times a week. When the service ended, there were often people still praying at the altars (this church doesn't even HAVE altars), and it took at least another hour for people to get done talking and interacting and head out the doors. The song service was inclusive; the entire congregation worshipping God through music together.

This service was over in an hour; the song service was the "worship team" - basically a music group - giving a performance with lights and videos on screens and a FOG MACHINE, for crying out loud. It was a lot more like going to a concert than anything interactive. Everyone was out the door in about fifteen minutes, the pastors (they apparently have a huge heirarchy of them) were nowhere in sight, and there was no effort made to even identify new attendees, much less meet them and make them feel welcome. The sermon was still on-point in the Word of God, and they don't seem to have edited out the "icky" parts so many churches do - y'know, references to the Crucifixion, blood, death, Hell, all that uncomfortable stuff - but I have to wonder how you're supposed to learn and grow and connect with the Christian community and draw closer to God when an hour a week of listening to other people perform is all the effort you put into it.

Sounds like you grew up in a similar church that I was brought up in (Assemblies of God). Fire and brimstone fundamentalism complete with speaking in tongues and alter calls.

I'm not a regular church-goer any more. I usually go a few times a year to my neighborhood Lutheran Church. I tried going to a more youth oriented church, but it was much too loud. Mega churches are too impersonal. Good luck in your search. Hope you find something that meets your spiritual needs.

 

[TheOldSchool]

I went to a new church for the first time this morning (because I moved to a new city a few months back, and now I need to find a new church home), and I have to say I don't feel even remotely sufficiently churched.

Maybe I'm just really old-fashioned. I grew up in the same two churches throughout my life; in fact, my husband and I were married in one of them. They were both good-sized, but neither was a "mega-church", and it was not only possible to know everyone in the church, it was impossible NOT to. The services took upwards of two hours from start to finish, and they happened three times a week. When the service ended, there were often people still praying at the altars (this church doesn't even HAVE altars), and it took at least another hour for people to get done talking and interacting and head out the doors. The song service was inclusive; the entire congregation worshipping God through music together.

This service was over in an hour; the song service was the "worship team" - basically a music group - giving a performance with lights and videos on screens and a FOG MACHINE, for crying out loud. It was a lot more like going to a concert than anything interactive. Everyone was out the door in about fifteen minutes, the pastors (they apparently have a huge heirarchy of them) were nowhere in sight, and there was no effort made to even identify new attendees, much less meet them and make them feel welcome. The sermon was still on-point in the Word of God, and they don't seem to have edited out the "icky" parts so many churches do - y'know, references to the Crucifixion, blood, death, Hell, all that uncomfortable stuff - but I have to wonder how you're supposed to learn and grow and connect with the Christian community and draw closer to God when an hour a week of listening to other people perform is all the effort you put into it.

2 hour service? What a colossal waste of time. Think of the skills you could teach yourself dedicating 2 hours a week to it instead of sitting in a pew indulging your imagination.

The skills I want to spend that time developing are love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Humility, patience, and compassion would also be good. Which is why I want to spend that two hours a week - or even more (!) - in what has been the primary place for learning those skills for millennia.

You can smoke weed in some churches now. I’d go to that.