What government programs have you benefited from?

[Paulie]

I recall one or two libertarians...or conservatives (one won't admit to being either one) admitting they took government subsidized student loans, admitting they got back more tax money than they paid in, admitted that as kids they lived off of disability social security from a parents death, admitted they got free lunch because they qualified for it...and various other benefits and it got me wondering.

What government programs have you benefited from?

Here's my list, as far as I recall.

6 years of public school.
Clean water.
Uncontaminated food.
4 years publicly funded school buses.
Military protection.
Clear roads.
$250 from FEMA for hurricane damage.
Federally underwritten flood insurance.
4 years of publicly funded school for each of two kids.
1 year of bus services for 1 kid.
Scholarship for 1 kid underwritten by the state.

Rav, I took a $2k student loan that was UNSUBSIDIZED, and only involves the government in the event that I defaulted on it. I promptly paid it back with profits from a stock trade I made.

Anyway, let's break down your list..

Public school and anything relating to it is ridiculous to debate. As a libertarian, I support public schooling, only without intervention from the federal level.

Uncontaminated food? Are you referring to the fact that the FDA's existence increases the likelihood that the food you eat is safe? I don't oppose the FDA, by the way. And even with them, we still end up with contaminated food.

Military protection is dumb. There's probably not a single poster on this board the opposes the military. It's distinctly laid out in the constitution.

Clear roads? We couldn't have clear roads without the government? State your case, I'm all ears.

FEMA is fine as long as the only thing they do is step in and provide aid after a major disaster, and that's IT.

Go to Wyomning or South Dakota during the winter time and try to drive down I 90 which was also built with government funding, without government funded snow plows, and truck snow blowers. How about where I lived last year? Our governor declared a state emergencies because with private and public snow plows there was too much snow to tackle, we then recieved aid and other help. It is like some of you guys live in vacuum.

Interstate roads are fine with me, I don't have a problem with them being built on the taxpayer dime. They were originally intended to provide mobilization routes for the military. If they need to be cleared of snow, the government has a vested interest in clearing them.

But back roads can and will be plowed by someone, whether the government does it or not. There are enough people with plows who will need to get somewhere, and will end up plowing it themselves. And there will be people who will pay the people with plows to clear roads for them. That would be a great example of capitalism without the need for government involvement.

Would it be a little less convenient than getting up out of bed already knowing all roads that matter are plowed by the government? Sure. Would it be the end of the damn world as we know it? Of course not.

 

[Luissa]

Rav, I took a $2k student loan that was UNSUBSIDIZED, and only involves the government in the event that I defaulted on it. I promptly paid it back with profits from a stock trade I made.

Anyway, let's break down your list..

Public school and anything relating to it is ridiculous to debate. As a libertarian, I support public schooling, only without intervention from the federal level.

Uncontaminated food? Are you referring to the fact that the FDA's existence increases the likelihood that the food you eat is safe? I don't oppose the FDA, by the way. And even with them, we still end up with contaminated food.

Military protection is dumb. There's probably not a single poster on this board the opposes the military. It's distinctly laid out in the constitution.

Clear roads? We couldn't have clear roads without the government? State your case, I'm all ears.

FEMA is fine as long as the only thing they do is step in and provide aid after a major disaster, and that's IT.

Go to Wyomning or South Dakota during the winter time and try to drive down I 90 which was also built with government funding, without government funded snow plows, and truck snow blowers. How about where I lived last year? Our governor declared a state emergencies because with private and public snow plows there was too much snow to tackle, we then recieved aid and other help. It is like some of you guys live in vacuum.

Interstate roads are fine with me, I don't have a problem with them being built on the taxpayer dime. They were originally intended to provide mobilization routes for the military. If they need to be cleared of snow, the government has a vested interest in clearing them.

But back roads can and will be plowed by someone, whether the government does it or not. There are enough people with plows who will need to get somewhere, and will end up plowing it themselves. And there will be people who will pay the people with plows to clear roads for them. That would be a great example of capitalism without the need for government involvement.

Would it be a little less convenient than getting up out of bed already knowing all roads that matter are plowed by the government? Sure. Would it be the end of the damn world as we know it? Of course not.

You obviously don't live somewhere that gets a lot of snow.

 

[Paulie]

Go to Wyomning or South Dakota during the winter time and try to drive down I 90 which was also built with government funding, without government funded snow plows, and truck snow blowers. How about where I lived last year? Our governor declared a state emergencies because with private and public snow plows there was too much snow to tackle, we then recieved aid and other help. It is like some of you guys live in vacuum.

Interstate roads are fine with me, I don't have a problem with them being built on the taxpayer dime. They were originally intended to provide mobilization routes for the military. If they need to be cleared of snow, the government has a vested interest in clearing them.

But back roads can and will be plowed by someone, whether the government does it or not. There are enough people with plows who will need to get somewhere, and will end up plowing it themselves. And there will be people who will pay the people with plows to clear roads for them. That would be a great example of capitalism without the need for government involvement.

Would it be a little less convenient than getting up out of bed already knowing all roads that matter are plowed by the government? Sure. Would it be the end of the damn world as we know it? Of course not.

You obviously don't live somewhere that gets a lot of snow.

My mother lives in Wisconsin. One of the biggest financial assets is a snow plow there. The roads get plowed whether the government does it or not.

I've been there enough times to witness how things work in heavy snow areas.

This isn't to say that it would be peaches and cream without the government plowing snow, but like I said, it wouldn't be the end of the world.

 

[Luissa]

Interstate roads are fine with me, I don't have a problem with them being built on the taxpayer dime. They were originally intended to provide mobilization routes for the military. If they need to be cleared of snow, the government has a vested interest in clearing them.

But back roads can and will be plowed by someone, whether the government does it or not. There are enough people with plows who will need to get somewhere, and will end up plowing it themselves. And there will be people who will pay the people with plows to clear roads for them. That would be a great example of capitalism without the need for government involvement.

Would it be a little less convenient than getting up out of bed already knowing all roads that matter are plowed by the government? Sure. Would it be the end of the damn world as we know it? Of course not.

You obviously don't live somewhere that gets a lot of snow.

My mother lives in Wisconsin. One of the biggest financial assets is a snow plow there. The roads get plowed whether the government does it or not.

I've been there enough times to witness how things work in heavy snow areas.

This isn't to say that it would be peaches and cream without the government plowing snow, but like I said, it wouldn't be the end of the world.

What about let's say in this case a single mom has to get work, doesn't have paid time off, I guess missing three days or so in missed wages is not the end of the world. And lets hope no one has to get to say a hospital, I guess they could just wait until the roads get plowed. Like I said you idea might work in a perfect world/vacuum, but most of us live in the real world.

 

[Nosmo King]

Way to try to distract from your ridiculous post, by trying to make it about me.

Way to toss the bomb and run!

Shut the **** up, Donny!

 

[Paulie]

You obviously don't live somewhere that gets a lot of snow.

My mother lives in Wisconsin. One of the biggest financial assets is a snow plow there. The roads get plowed whether the government does it or not.

I've been there enough times to witness how things work in heavy snow areas.

This isn't to say that it would be peaches and cream without the government plowing snow, but like I said, it wouldn't be the end of the world.

What about let's say in this case a single mom has to get work, doesn't have paid time off, I guess missing three days or so in missed wages is not the end of the world. And lets hope no one has to get to say a hospital, I guess they could just wait until the roads get plowed. Like I said you idea might work in a perfect world/vacuum, but most of us live in the real world.

Like I said, not peaches and cream, but also not the end of the world.

But here's a question...with all the taxes we pay, especially the fuel tax, why are our roads so shitty? If I'm going to pay the government to build, maintain, and repair our roads, why am I not getting my money's worth?

If they aren't going to hold up their end of the bargain, I'd rather them butt the **** out.

 

[Nosmo King]

Let's say, just for the sake of argument, I've benefited from all the wonderful goodies that Santa Gubmint has bestowed upon me, with his benevolent patronage.

When was I provided with any choice in the matter?

Every two years for the House, four years for the presidency and six years for the senate.

 

[Oddball]

How many of those did I choose the 200+ years prior to my ability to vote?

 

[Nosmo King]

How many of those did I choose the 200+ years prior to my ability to vote?

Sorry, Dude. This turns out to be the United States of America, not Dudeland.

 

[Oddball]

That's no answer, tovarich.

Though, I'll mark this day down as the one the collectivist authoritarian left threw in with the "Amurrica, love it or leave it" set.

 

[Nosmo King]

That's no answer, tovarich.

Though, I'll mark this day down as the one the collectivist authoritarian left threw in with the "Amurrica, love it or leave it" set.

It wasn't much of a question!

So what? You give up being Jewish?

 

[Oddball]

It's a totally valid question....You just can't come up with any answer that makes any sense.

Trying to tell me that I'm "free" to choose who who will shake me down doesn't change the fact that I'm being shaken down.

 

[Mr Natural]

To name a few:

The GI Bill
Veterans Property Tax Exemption
Florida Keys Marine Sanctuary
The National Parks

Social Security in two years and Medicare in five.

 

[Nosmo King]

It's a totally valid question....You just can't come up with any answer that makes any sense.

Trying to tell me that I'm "free" to choose who who will shake me down doesn't change the fact that I'm being shaken down.

Invalid question all the way! You want to know how many choices you had before you were born?!? Give it up!

And Hell's Bells, Dude! How do you think I feel when April 15 rolls around? They want me to pay for a war I don't think is legal or moral, a Defense Department that thinks spending $700 on a toilet seat is good value, a Treasury Department that throws cash at the same bandits who screwed the pooch and brought down the financial system and on and on.

But, I do get benefits from my tax dollars. I get an interstate highway system that, for the most part, is well maintained, locks and dams on the Ohio river which keep flooding at bay, a Department of the Interior which maintains the beautiful National Parks system, a Department of Labor which helps protect me and my fellow working Americans while we are on the job and on and on.

You seem to want all the stars to align and the known universe to orbit around your minuscule ideals. Well, that's not how life, the cosmos or the United States of America works, is it?

 

[Oddball]

So, you're all happy for the goodies you think you get, but want to ***** when someone uses the same authoritarian apparatus to prosecute stupid foreign wars?

What a hoot you Fabians are!

 

[Nosmo King]

So, you're all happy for the goodies you think you get, but want to ***** when someone uses the same authoritarian apparatus to prosecute stupid foreign wars?

What a hoot you Fabians are!

And you decry the goodies you get while taking full advantage of them! Hardy Har Har!

 

[Queen]

So, you're all happy for the goodies you think you get, but want to ***** when someone uses the same authoritarian apparatus to prosecute stupid foreign wars?

What a hoot you Fabians are!

And you decry the goodies you get while taking full advantage of them! Hardy Har Har!

It's always shocking to see a Republican taking advantage of government help and at the same time complaining about how terrible the government is. My neighbor collects disability and had an operation covered by Medical and watches FOX so hates the Democrats. Without the Democrats, he'd have none of this.

So weird.

 

[Ravi]

I recall one or two libertarians...or conservatives (one won't admit to being either one) admitting they took government subsidized student loans, admitting they got back more tax money than they paid in, admitted that as kids they lived off of disability social security from a parents death, admitted they got free lunch because they qualified for it...and various other benefits and it got me wondering.

What government programs have you benefited from?

Here's my list, as far as I recall.

6 years of public school.
Clean water.
Uncontaminated food.
4 years publicly funded school buses.
Military protection.
Clear roads.
$250 from FEMA for hurricane damage.
Federally underwritten flood insurance.
4 years of publicly funded school for each of two kids.
1 year of bus services for 1 kid.
Scholarship for 1 kid underwritten by the state.

Rav, I took a $2k student loan that was UNSUBSIDIZED, and only involves the government in the event that I defaulted on it. I promptly paid it back with profits from a stock trade I made.

Anyway, let's break down your list..

Public school and anything relating to it is ridiculous to debate. As a libertarian, I support public schooling, only without intervention from the federal level.

Uncontaminated food? Are you referring to the fact that the FDA's existence increases the likelihood that the food you eat is safe? I don't oppose the FDA, by the way. And even with them, we still end up with contaminated food.

Military protection is dumb. There's probably not a single poster on this board the opposes the military. It's distinctly laid out in the constitution.

Clear roads? We couldn't have clear roads without the government? State your case, I'm all ears.

FEMA is fine as long as the only thing they do is step in and provide aid after a major disaster, and that's IT.

I see you are still smarting from my merciless needling of you.

You, IMO, are one of the handful of sane Libertarians that sees the value in some certain social services.

The others I see as John McCain, who rails against SS while depositing the checks that he could easily live without.

I don't recall you claiming that the government is ruining your life or that the country is Communist or any talking points like big gubment, etc. This thread wasn't directed at you.

 

[Immanuel]

Well, one program I am about to become thankful for is "unemployment".

Not going to like being on it, but I paid for it, so, until I find a new job, I'm using it.

Immie

 

[Ravi]

Well, one program I am about to become thankful for is "unemployment".

Not going to like being on it, but I paid for it, so, until I find a new job, I'm using it.

Immie

I'm sorry to hear that.

If it is any consolation, last year I paid less than $10 per employee for unemployment. This year it will be slightly over $150 per employee.