What does yours look like?

[freyasman]

Dang he is at 86 years old.

Still think the death penalty is more of a right wing plank than left..

I am right wing and I detest the death penalty, it's better for people to rot in jail then to kill them outright.

There is a much lower rate of recidivism with the death penalty though.

 

[candycorn]

It would look a lot like this:

View attachment 320158

Its a metaphor for the entire nation. The conservatives pride themselves on self sufficiency, being self-made people, etc... In truth few if anyone is truly self-sufficient and few if anyone is self-made. Did you get a good education? That is because some liberal decided that compulsory education nationwide was a good thing. Kudos to you for taking full advantage of it but you got a leg-up before you were even born!!!

Isn't it funny how your utopia requires people to suffer.

You really are a despicable piece of shit.

not necessarily....maybe it represents the conflict between a society based on rugged individual competition and a society built on mutual cooperation.

No, I don't see that at all. It was a value judgment, and nothing more.

Correct: Liberals place a value on cooperation, teamwork, valuing one another's contributions, and "best idea wins". Conservatives do not value these things.
Even during times of emergencies:

House conservatives demand offsets for Hurricane Sandy aid

Once again the far-right of the GOP (are there any moderates left?) show us how compassionate they are and prove why a majority of Americans hold them in low regard concerning the welfare of the nation. House conservatives demand offsets for Hurricane Sandy aid - The Hill's On The Money House...

www.usmessageboard.com

Being a rugged individual gets you far but in some cases not far enough. And the idea of anyone being truly "self made" has been dismissed by all thinking people. All of us (conservatives, liberals, whatever) are warmed by the fires started by others.

 

[westwall]

It would look a lot like this:

View attachment 320158

Its a metaphor for the entire nation. The conservatives pride themselves on self sufficiency, being self-made people, etc... In truth few if anyone is truly self-sufficient and few if anyone is self-made. Did you get a good education? That is because some liberal decided that compulsory education nationwide was a good thing. Kudos to you for taking full advantage of it but you got a leg-up before you were even born!!!

Isn't it funny how your utopia requires people to suffer.

You really are a despicable piece of shit.

not necessarily....maybe it represents the conflict between a society based on rugged individual competition and a society built on mutual cooperation.

No, I don't see that at all. It was a value judgment, and nothing more.

Correct: Liberals place a value on cooperation, teamwork, valuing one another's contributions, and "best idea wins". Conservatives do not value these things.
Even during times of emergencies:

House conservatives demand offsets for Hurricane Sandy aid

Once again the far-right of the GOP (are there any moderates left?) show us how compassionate they are and prove why a majority of Americans hold them in low regard concerning the welfare of the nation. House conservatives demand offsets for Hurricane Sandy aid - The Hill's On The Money House...

www.usmessageboard.com

Being a rugged individual gets you far but in some cases not far enough. And the idea of anyone being truly "self made" has been dismissed by all thinking people. All of us (conservatives, liberals, whatever) are warmed by the fires started by others.

Pure, and utter horse shit. Liberals and conservatives get along fine, and work together all of the time.

You batshit crazy progressive statists, on the other hand, want to control every aspect of people's lives because your lives suck, so you want to screw up every one elses.

 

[candycorn]

Pure, and utter horse shit. Liberals and conservatives get along fine, and work together all of the time.

You batshit crazy progressive statists, on the other hand, want to control every aspect of people's lives because your lives suck, so you want to screw up every one elses.

Wow...more profanity and insults....didn't see that coming. LOL

Sure they do. But when you put a hard core conservative into a situation where he is asked to give up for the greater good...you get...well you. Who thinks any sacrifice is an attempt to control every aspect of someone's life. Case in point; gun control.

 

[Marion Morrison]

This world isn't for Utopias.

 

[Marion Morrison]

Pure, and utter horse shit. Liberals and conservatives get along fine, and work together all of the time.

You batshit crazy progressive statists, on the other hand, want to control every aspect of people's lives because your lives suck, so you want to screw up every one elses.

Wow...more profanity and insults....didn't see that coming. LOL

Sure they do. But when you put a hard core conservative into a situation where he is asked to give up for the greater good...you get...well you. Who thinks any sacrifice is an attempt to control every aspect of someone's life. Case in point; gun control.

 

[Olde Europe]

I don’t believe in Utopias because every one of them usually hides a rotten core. I think utopia, like heaven or hell is what we make of our lives in the here and now. How we choose to interact with each other, our ability to forgive and move on, and utopia lies in the strengths of our families, friendships and communities. And in our ability to accept people for who they are.

It so happens I find "hides a rotten core" unnecessarily pejorative. Rather, I would think, utopias react to, and over-emphasize, the most pressing needs of their times (keeping marauding hordes out, internal armed unrest in check, etc.) while underestimating the myriads of rules, institutions, procedures, traditions and actors of self-organization required for a livable society. That's why, despite the admirable brainpower put into figuring them out, utopias still are hopelessly undercomplex, and by necessity.

As to your own idyllic utopia - to be found "in the strengths of our families, friendships and communities": Picture yourself a slave in the 1830s, a member of a black community in the Deep South decimated by a mishandled pandemic under home confinement with no food on the table, or a farmer trying to eke out a living under the scorching sun of 2100, in order to see that family and community life, in order to be bearable, rests on preconditions families and communities cannot create on their own. That's to say, your utopia also needs a bit of work so as to explain how these preconditions have a good chance of being met.

Just kidding.

On the other hand, I find it hard to believe that some on here have little by way of thinking about a livable or desirable future other than to cheer on more of the same, more competition and more risk, which usually translates to lives best described as "nasty, brutish, and short."

 

[flacaltenn]

I know what's in the free worlds Constitution's I have debated and look into it numerous times.

They dont have the freedom we have.

I've this debate before many times. I'll give you - on paper due to your BOR and constitution - you absolutely have more rights than other western democracies/republics. In reality? I can name several countries that are more free including NZ and Australia.

Have a lot of friends in N.Z and Australia.. But a FREE county doesn't run authoritarian and cynical ads like THIS one against law abiding gun owners....

 

[westwall]

Pure, and utter horse shit. Liberals and conservatives get along fine, and work together all of the time.

You batshit crazy progressive statists, on the other hand, want to control every aspect of people's lives because your lives suck, so you want to screw up every one elses.

Wow...more profanity and insults....didn't see that coming. LOL

Sure they do. But when you put a hard core conservative into a situation where he is asked to give up for the greater good...you get...well you. Who thinks any sacrifice is an attempt to control every aspect of someone's life. Case in point; gun control.

No, you get you. I have been a supporter of charitable causes all over the world. Progressives, like you, only take. You never give.

 

[flacaltenn]

This world isn't for Utopias.

Dunno man.. Not personal experience, but in some institutions, they can DRUG you into your own personal utopia...

And that's my beef with "designing" utopias... They just don't "scale up" that well.. I imagine "a neighborhood" could approach that. MAYBE even a state. But we're not all gonna agree on "what's for lunch" or "what can I see on the Internet"...

And when it comes to "Utopiating" the WORLD --- Good luck with N. Korea and the narco dictators down in Cent. America or the Mullahs in Iran...

 

[freyasman]

Pure, and utter horse shit. Liberals and conservatives get along fine, and work together all of the time.

You batshit crazy progressive statists, on the other hand, want to control every aspect of people's lives because your lives suck, so you want to screw up every one elses.

Wow...more profanity and insults....didn't see that coming. LOL

Sure they do. But when you put a hard core conservative into a situation where he is asked to give up for the greater good...you get...well you. Who thinks any sacrifice is an attempt to control every aspect of someone's life. Case in point; gun control.

Gun control is not, and never has been, for the greater good, though.

 

[Dr Grump]

I know what's in the free worlds Constitution's I have debated and look into it numerous times.

They dont have the freedom we have.

I've this debate before many times. I'll give you - on paper due to your BOR and constitution - you absolutely have more rights than other western democracies/republics. In reality? I can name several countries that are more free including NZ and Australia.

Have a lot of friends in N.Z and Australia.. But a FREE county doesn't run authoritarian and cynical ads like THIS one against law abiding gun owners....

Only if you equate gun ownership with freedom. Vast majority of us don't.

 

[freyasman]

I know what's in the free worlds Constitution's I have debated and look into it numerous times.

They dont have the freedom we have.

I've this debate before many times. I'll give you - on paper due to your BOR and constitution - you absolutely have more rights than other western democracies/republics. In reality? I can name several countries that are more free including NZ and Australia.

Have a lot of friends in N.Z and Australia.. But a FREE county doesn't run authoritarian and cynical ads like THIS one against law abiding gun owners....

Only if you equate gun ownership with freedom. Vast majority of us don't.

They don't?


If you're not allowed to arm yourself, then how are you "free"?

 

[sparky]

Dunno man.. Not personal experience, but in some institutions, they can DRUG you into your own personal utopia...

They can?

and here i am trying so hard on my own.....

Where do i sign up???

~S~

 

[Vastator]

Your Utopia? And I mean realistically. There is no doubt that the vast majority of people on this forum are divided into two camps. Then there is the odd neutral like myself. If you could chuck all the liberals on one side of the country and the conservatives on the other, what would your society look like.

A conservative society would probably have no abortion, high gun ownership, the death penalty.
A democrat society would probably have no death penalty, affirmative action etc.

Both would probably be founded on the US BOR and Constitution.
I think the conservative society would have a lower crime rate, but the liberal society would be more just.

Guess I don't believe in Utopias.. Not really anything to DO in a "utopia" because everyone's NEEDS are resolved.. I've figured out the left/right divide is largely over this one word -- RISK ---.. Left tries to annihilate risk anywhere they see it -- the right realizes it's a fact of life and DRIVES us to innovate, open businesses, not get complacent about your future..

This part is interesting. I never thought of tbe differences in terms of risk, but that is a good point. I agree with it.

I would also add another point: inclusive vs. exclusive. The left tries to include the many in it’s definition of “us”, the right excludes those who don’t fit.

The right views equality as an equal playing field, the left, equality of outcome. The first ignores the fact that some folks start out lengths behind, the second diminishes the power of individual effort,

A leftist utopia would be the ultimate nanny state,a rightest utopia, the survival of the fittest.

Uhm so where are all these atheist homeless shelters at?

well...not sure how atheism fits in with this

you wouldnt,,,

True, I don't happen to be an athiest but it still seems a complate non-sequeter.

I see o,entry of homeless shelters that are secular.

Never heard of socialism..?

 

[Vastator]

Hence I am an Independent. I am also a capitalist and agree with you with helping the needy but not the lazy.

Hey Coyote, I note you disliked this post. Don't take Azog defense of how Trump runs the country as him liking Trump (maybe he does). I've never seen Azog cheerleading the rabid right. He's just a run of the mill capitalist in my book. Long as the person in charge is making him money, he seems happy. Probably a bit more complicated than that, but I see him as reasonably independent.

Sorry to disagree. He is an asshole. My new policy is to dislike a post of his everti e he does it to me.

Oooo you’re hurting my feelings. Coming from your Jew hating lips that is a compliment. Your next logical post will be your first. Very childish to close that thread when I posted direct proof of how Hydrox works. Very childish.

I do t even know what thread you are butthurt about. Take it up via pm.

Dodge roll behind cover of “mod action”... Lol! Gotta love them safe spaces...

 

[Vastator]

It would look a lot like this:

View attachment 320158

Its a metaphor for the entire nation. The conservatives pride themselves on self sufficiency, being self-made people, etc... In truth few if anyone is truly self-sufficient and few if anyone is self-made. Did you get a good education? That is because some liberal decided that compulsory education nationwide was a good thing. Kudos to you for taking full advantage of it but you got a leg-up before you were even born!!!

Isn't it funny how your utopia requires people to suffer.

You really are a despicable piece of shit.

not necessarily....maybe it represents the conflict between a society based on rugged individual competition and a society built on mutual cooperation.

No, I don't see that at all. It was a value judgment, and nothing more.

Correct: Liberals place a value on cooperation, teamwork, valuing one another's contributions, and "best idea wins". Conservatives do not value these things.
Even during times of emergencies:

House conservatives demand offsets for Hurricane Sandy aid

Once again the far-right of the GOP (are there any moderates left?) show us how compassionate they are and prove why a majority of Americans hold them in low regard concerning the welfare of the nation. House conservatives demand offsets for Hurricane Sandy aid - The Hill's On The Money House...

www.usmessageboard.com

Being a rugged individual gets you far but in some cases not far enough. And the idea of anyone being truly "self made" has been dismissed by all thinking people. All of us (conservatives, liberals, whatever) are warmed by the fires started by others.

Actually... Another persons contributions is a very scrutinous point of focus; thank you very much...

 

[playtime]

fresh clean air, clean water, clean environment, green energy, universal healthcare, a strict ban on assault rifles, citizen's united overturned, row v wade codified in federal law & trumpco in prison. & outlaw fucking ATVs.

 

[Vastator]

fresh clean air, clean water, clean environment, green energy, universal healthcare, a strict ban on assault rifles, citizen's united overturned, row v wade codified in federal law & trumpco in prison.

Better rethink your position on “assault rifles” if you ever hope to see the rest of that fantasy become reality...

 

[Dr Grump]

They don't?
If you're not allowed to arm yourself, then how are you "free"?

I am allowed to arm myself. I choose not to.

Tenn's poster was for illegal and unregistered firearms. There are heavy restrictions on the types of firearms I can own, but I can still own one if I want. I know a few people who have guns.

Different mindset. You guys have always wanted your peashooters. To be honest, I've never thought about it until I came across gun loving Americans.