What does yours look like?

flacaltenn

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To be fair Dr Grump , its quite possible your political leadership is wise, hard working, deliberative, and competent.. I don't know.. But OURS is not.. It is literally INFESTED with rabid political hacks that wait for a crisis to react, don't manage the BASIC powers and programs they create and are largely muzzled by just FOUR PARTY LEADERS who don't ALLOW free expression or ideas to flow...

So it should be no surprise that there are MORE in America that suddenly WORRY about their economic and social freedoms..

And in ANY Utopia -- the NEED for an AUTHORITARIAN type of govt (competent or not) would be a non-starter...
 
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Dr Grump

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Also the 99.9% should never be DEGRADED and THREATENED by their govt like that Ad that ran in Australia... That's when you REALIZE -- You now work for THEM.. Not the way a FREE country should ever be...
As I said owning guns is a privilege like driving. And I don't equate it to freedom. I can go through the motions and get a gun any time I want.
 

flacaltenn

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Tenn's poster was for illegal and unregistered firearms.
Of course you're rationalizing this because they DEFINED most personal firearms TO BE illegal...

If I have a mountain lion or coyote attacking my herd, I'm gonna want a 20 round magazine.. Or if I'm a woman STALKED by an ex -- I might want something in my purse that doesn't look like a 19th century revolver...
 

flacaltenn

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Also the 99.9% should never be DEGRADED and THREATENED by their govt like that Ad that ran in Australia... That's when you REALIZE -- You now work for THEM.. Not the way a FREE country should ever be...
As I said owning guns is a privilege like driving. And I don't equate it to freedom. I can go through the motions and get a gun any time I want.
Single shot rifles are for the OLYMPICS... Not self defense or living in the wild areas of the country...
 
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Dr Grump

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To be fair Dr Grump , its quite possible your political leadership is wise, hard working, deliberative, and competent.. I don't know.. But OURS is not.. It is literally INFESTED with rabid political hacks that wait for a crisis to react, don't manage the BASIC powers and programs they create and are largely muzzled by just FOUR PARTY LEADERS who don't ALLOW free expression or ideas to flow...

So it should be no surprise that there are MORE in America that suddenly WORRY about their economic and social freedoms..

And in ANY Utopia -- the NEED for an AUTHORITARIAN type of govt (competent or not) would be a non-starter...
100 per cent agree with you first paragraph about the US govt. Been banging on about it on these boards for years...

NZ govt is a lot more transparent and accountable. Aussie not so much as NZ, but way more than the US.
 
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Of course you're rationalizing this because they DEFINED most personal firearms TO BE illegal...

If I have a mountain lion or coyote attacking my herd, I'm gonna want a 20 round magazine.. Or if I'm a woman STALKED by an ex -- I might want something in my purse that doesn't look like a 19th century revolver...
You have a much higher homicide rate. You also have a massively higher death rate - not just homicides, but accidental and suicide rate - due to your guns. No thanks...
 

flacaltenn

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As I said owning guns is a privilege like driving. And I don't equate it to freedom. I can go through the motions and get a gun any time I want.
The idea of MAKING that "a privilege like driving a car" goes counter to the Constitution of most REPUBLICS (which we are).. Where the POWERS of the states are ENUMERATED and limited. And the "privileges" of the PEOPLE are not..

But I'm serious here.. If you're gonna drop a dime on us and suddenly suggest that UTOPIA is some kind of socialist collective -- that's gonna be a hard sell to people who VALUE the Liberty/freedom of living in a Republic..
 

flacaltenn

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You have a much higher homicide rate. You also have a massively higher death rate - not just homicides, but accidental and suicide rate - due to your guns. No thanks...
It's not as high as many media fact checkers make it to be.. And that HOMICIDE rate is LARGELY confined (almost completely confined) to the big BLUE cities that refuse to confiscate guns from gang bangers..
 

AzogtheDefiler

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You have a much higher homicide rate. You also have a massively higher death rate - not just homicides, but accidental and suicide rate - due to your guns. No thanks...
It's not as high as many media fact checkers make it to be.. And that HOMICIDE rate is LARGELY confined (almost completely confined) to the big BLUE cities that refuse to confiscate guns from gang bangers..
^^^THIS^^^
 

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Pure, and utter horse shit. Liberals and conservatives get along fine, and work together all of the time.

You batshit crazy progressive statists, on the other hand, want to control every aspect of people's lives because your lives suck, so you want to screw up every one elses.
Wow...more profanity and insults....didn't see that coming. LOL

Sure they do. But when you put a hard core conservative into a situation where he is asked to give up for the greater good...you get...well you. Who thinks any sacrifice is an attempt to control every aspect of someone's life. Case in point; gun control.
Pure, and utter horse shit. Liberals and conservatives get along fine, and work together all of the time.

You batshit crazy progressive statists, on the other hand, want to control every aspect of people's lives because your lives suck, so you want to screw up every one elses.
Wow...more profanity and insults....didn't see that coming. LOL

Sure they do. But when you put a hard core conservative into a situation where he is asked to give up for the greater good...you get...well you. Who thinks any sacrifice is an attempt to control every aspect of someone's life. Case in point; gun control.
What is the greater good.

Specifically.

It appears she is saying take one for the team
 
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Dr Grump

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The idea of MAKING that "a privilege like driving a car" goes counter to the Constitution of most REPUBLICS (which we are).. Where the POWERS of the states are ENUMERATED and limited. And the "privileges" of the PEOPLE are not..

But I'm serious here.. If you're gonna drop a dime on us and suddenly suggest that UTOPIA is some kind of socialist collective -- that's gonna be a hard sell to people who VALUE the Liberty/freedom of living in a Republic..
I've always liked a mixture of both capitalism and socialism. To me there are certain things that shouldn't be privatised. I think I have more of an enumerated right to health care than I do owning a gun.

Socialism on its own is a failed experiment. Just look at Portugal and Greece.
Pure capitalism is a failure too IMO...
 
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Dr Grump

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You have a much higher homicide rate. You also have a massively higher death rate - not just homicides, but accidental and suicide rate - due to your guns. No thanks...
It's not as high as many media fact checkers make it to be.. And that HOMICIDE rate is LARGELY confined (almost completely confined) to the big BLUE cities that refuse to confiscate guns from gang bangers..
Nah, it's pretty high compared to here.
Well, what do you expect when you have a proliferation of guns? Of course those that are at the low end of the scale in terms of economics and social standing are going to be more violent, live in shit housing and have low expectations. Things always go towards the lowest common denominator, including gun violence.
 

progressive hunter

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The idea of MAKING that "a privilege like driving a car" goes counter to the Constitution of most REPUBLICS (which we are).. Where the POWERS of the states are ENUMERATED and limited. And the "privileges" of the PEOPLE are not..

But I'm serious here.. If you're gonna drop a dime on us and suddenly suggest that UTOPIA is some kind of socialist collective -- that's gonna be a hard sell to people who VALUE the Liberty/freedom of living in a Republic..
I've always liked a mixture of both capitalism and socialism. To me there are certain things that shouldn't be privatised. I think I have more of an enumerated right to health care than I do owning a gun.

Socialism on its own is a failed experiment. Just look at Portugal and Greece.
Pure capitalism is a failure too IMO...
you do realize healthcare comes from people,,,so that means you think you are entitled to other peoples time,,,

thats called slavery
 

flacaltenn

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You have a much higher homicide rate. You also have a massively higher death rate - not just homicides, but accidental and suicide rate - due to your guns. No thanks...
It's not as high as many media fact checkers make it to be.. And that HOMICIDE rate is LARGELY confined (almost completely confined) to the big BLUE cities that refuse to confiscate guns from gang bangers..
Nah, it's pretty high compared to here.
Well, what do you expect when you have a proliferation of guns? Of course those that are at the low end of the scale in terms of economics and social standing are going to be more violent, live in shit housing and have low expectations. Things always go towards the lowest common denominator, including gun violence.
If you think the proliferation of GUNS is the only defining difference, you haven't looked at the parameters.. What is your rape, armed robbery, personal assault statistics compared to the USA? Do you have HUGE urban areas where 40 to 60% of teens are high school dropouts? Do you have hypocrites like we do in Hollywood that push the death count in their productions with maximum fire power and glorify gun violence -- then go hire ARMED security and take a whack at gun owners every chance they get...

As a Libertarian -- I'll give you that Capitalism needs some morals. ONE IS -- to stop pandering to power for hand-outs in return for campaign donations.. THis govt/corporate collusion thing really ROTS the free markets.. Allows GOVT to pick winners and losers..

Another is that they've spit on their customer relations and service.. Too many MBAs trying to gain pennies out of the profit margin with JustInTime warehousing and delivery and recommending unlisted phone numbers or email for customer feedback.. THAT and the PRIVACY issues really suck.. Making corporations look insensitive and outright evil to a lot of people..

Also -- since we LACKED the problem solvers and leaders we deserve -- when we sent all our supply chains to Asia -- according to the global trade vision - we were SUPPOSED to be encouraging the development of 21st Automated manufacturing HERE.. We did not.. And I'm not complaining that POLITICIANS didn't solve this.... But I am complaining that our REGULATIONS on business became increasingly onerous and antagonistic to business..
 

bear513

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Also the 99.9% should never be DEGRADED and THREATENED by their govt like that Ad that ran in Australia... That's when you REALIZE -- You now work for THEM.. Not the way a FREE country should ever be...
As I said owning guns is a privilege like driving. And I don't equate it to freedom. I can go through the motions and get a gun any time I want.
It's not a privilege in the USA like driving is, it is a right

That's your entire problem
 

Grumblenuts

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Pure, and utter horse shit. Liberals and conservatives get along fine, and work together all of the time.

You batshit crazy progressive statists, on the other hand, want to control every aspect of people's lives because your lives suck, so you want to screw up every one elses.
Wow...more profanity and insults....didn't see that coming. LOL

Sure they do. But when you put a hard core conservative into a situation where he is asked to give up for the greater good...you get...well you. Who thinks any sacrifice is an attempt to control every aspect of someone's life. Case in point; gun control.
Pure, and utter horse shit. Liberals and conservatives get along fine, and work together all of the time.

You batshit crazy progressive statists, on the other hand, want to control every aspect of people's lives because your lives suck, so you want to screw up every one elses.
Wow...more profanity and insults....didn't see that coming. LOL

Sure they do. But when you put a hard core conservative into a situation where he is asked to give up for the greater good...you get...well you. Who thinks any sacrifice is an attempt to control every aspect of someone's life. Case in point; gun control.
What is the greater good.

Specifically.
Though the absence of any question marks makes your rhetorical intent evident, it's actually worthy discussion. Another view from down under:
the idea that we possess, as we have always possessed, shared interests and a common future – is vital. This is because it improves the odds that we will choose what Ross Garnaut calls the “public interest” approach to our challenges rather than persevere with “politics as usual” and “business as usual”.
I'd say the greater good acknowledges that, though we have varied interests and priorities, we all have natural requirements and limitations that can only be managed sustainably publicly. Allowing the privatizing (*) of the things (**) most in our shared "public interest" (***) is how we shortsightedly put our progeny at "risk" by becoming too apathetic and empathic toward overt greed, too dismissive of our common needs which include having each other around.

* - "profitizing" ["profitising"?] clearly being a far better, but apparently disallowed term
** - goods and services, including our governments
*** - our "commons" or "commonwealth"
 
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Dr Grump

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It's not a privilege in the USA like driving is, it is a right

That's your entire problem
I know it's a right in the US. Why do you think I made the distinction in the first place? And I don't find it a problem that it is a privilege here.
 

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