Zone1 What does this mean to you?

[buttercup]

Angels don't "marry".

Matthew 22:
30 "For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven."

The context is sexual relations.

In HEAVEN angels don't marry. I wasn't talking about Heaven, or the good angels. I was talking about the angels who were sent to earth for a purpose, then rebelled, and became "fallen angels."

Angels can take physical form. There is ample evidence of that in the bible. The angels I was speaking about had taken physical form, and were able to do things that humans do. They lusted after human women and disobeyed God, and as it says in Genesis 6, they "took" the women they chose, and the result was the Nephilim. And btw, procreation can happen with or without marriage. So your initial statement is irrelevant in this context.

I know that not all Christians agree with the angelic interpretation of Genesis 6, but it is the traditional view. In fact, prior to the fifth century it was virtually unanimous, until someone in the Church came up with the Sethite view. The Sethite view doesn't work, for numerous reasons.

If you are interested in this topic, here's a video that goes into it, in depth.

 

[Woodznutz]

In HEAVEN angels don't marry. I wasn't talking about Heaven, or the good angels. I was talking about the angels who were sent to earth for a purpose, then rebelled, and became "fallen angels."

Angels can take physical form. There is ample evidence of that in the bible. The angels I was speaking about had taken physical form, and were able to do things that humans do. They lusted after human women and disobeyed God, and as it says in Genesis 6, they "took" the women they chose, and the result was the Nephilim. And btw, procreation can happen with or without marriage. So your initial statement is irrelevant in this context.

I know that not all Christians agree with the angelic interpretation of Genesis 6, but it is the traditional view. In fact, prior to the fifth century it was virtually unanimous, until someone in the Church came up with the Sethite view. The Sethite view doesn't work, for numerous reasons.

If you are interested in this topic, here's a video that goes into it, in depth.

I'm open to fallen angels reproducing with women, but I lean to other interpretations. Angels in complete human form supports the earth being created for them in the first place and that they inhabited the earth prior to the rebellion. But the question remains; why would such a union produce the Nephilim?

 

[onefour1]

I'm open to fallen angels reproducing with women, but I lean to other interpretations. Angels in complete human form supports the earth being created for them in the first place and that they inhabited the earth prior to the rebellion. But the question remains; why would such a union produce the Nephilim?

The Bible doesn't say that they were angels but that they were the sons of God. I believe the those who were followers of God were known as the "sons of God" and those who were not believers in God were known as the "sons of men". God wanted those who were among the sons of God to marry among the daughters of God and go unto those who did not believe to find wives. But they went among the sons and daughters of men and found wives of the daughters of men and introduced disbelief into their posterity.

 

[Woodznutz]

The Bible doesn't say that they were angels but that they were the sons of God. I believe the those who were followers of God were known as the "sons of God" and those who were not believers in God were known as the "sons of men". God wanted those who were among the sons of God to marry among the daughters of God and go unto those who did not believe to find wives. But they went among the sons and daughters of men and found wives of the daughters of men and introduced disbelief into their posterity.

Angels are also called the sons of God (Job). I think the meaning is indeterminate so I speculate on either explanation.

 

[buttercup]

I'm open to fallen angels reproducing with women, but I lean to other interpretations. Angels in complete human form supports the earth being created for them in the first place and that they inhabited the earth prior to the rebellion. But the question remains; why would such a union produce the Nephilim?

I don't see any reason to believe that because angels can take physical (human-like) form that means the earth was created for them in the first place. I mean, they were in Heaven, not earth, but some were sent to earth. I've never seen anything that even remotely implies that the earth was created for them.

As for the question that remains.... why wouldn't it create an entirely different type of being, since it was the mixing of two different types of beings?

Here's just one of the problems with the Sethite view. Why would the union of humans + humans create giants? That is nonsensical. The bible is clear that there were giants in those days. Not only that, but beings that had a higher intelligence than humans.

Also, the angelic interpretation fits with the ancient stories from nearly every culture in this world... that there were "demigods" and stories of beings that came down to earth from another place and mixed with humans. Again, nearly every ancient culture tells the same story, but from different perspectives.

 

[buttercup]

The Bible doesn't say that they were angels but that they were the sons of God. I believe the those who were followers of God were known as the "sons of God" and those who were not believers in God were known as the "sons of men". God wanted those who were among the sons of God to marry among the daughters of God and go unto those who did not believe to find wives. But they went among the sons and daughters of men and found wives of the daughters of men and introduced disbelief into their posterity.

Every time the term "Sons of God" was used in the Old Testament, it referred to angels.

There are numerous problems with the Sethite view. The video I posted to Woodnutz a few posts up goes over all of this in depth.

 

[onefour1]

Angels are also called the sons of God (Job). I think the meaning is indeterminate so I speculate on either explanation.

In The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, we believe that an angel is nothing more than an messenger of God and that angels are either premortal spirits of mankind, sometimes mortal mankind, translated mankind, post mortal mankind prior to resurrection, and also resurrected mankind. We do not believe that angels are a separate creature from mankind but are the sons and daughters of God and the literal offspring of God.

Acts 17:28-29
28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man’s device.

Revelation 22:8-9
8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.
9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

Notice the angels that visited Lot and his family in Genesis 19 and how they are often called men throughout the chapter and were eating and were going to sleep in their home.

 

[onefour1]

Every time the term "Sons of God" was used in the Old Testament, it referred to angels.

There are numerous problems with the Sethite view. The video I posted to Woodnutz a few posts up goes over all of this in depth.

I do not hold to the view that the lineage of Seth was strictly always righteous. I hold to the view that those who chose to believe in God were known as the sons of God. This could have been any who chose with their free will to follow after God. Those known as the sons of men were those who did not follow the teachings of God. Since I believe that angels are mankind who are either premortal spirits, mortals, translated man, post mortal spirits of man or resurrected mankind who belong to this earth, then angels who administered to the earth before the days of Christ did not have bodies of flesh and bones and thus could not bear children with daughters of men on the earth. Jesus was the first to resurrect with a body of flesh and bones so those angels who were not mortal or translated could not have had bodies of flesh and bones to be able to procreate. Thus the teaching that angels procreated with mortal women is a false teaching in my beliefs. Fallen angels are those who sided with Lucifer in the premortal war in heaven and they were denied the opportunity to receive bodies of flesh and bones and thus they could never procreate.

I think that procreation is a gift that will continue only with those who reach the status of godhood in the eternities. I believe that our spirits came about through procreation and that those who reach the highest degree in heaven will, with their eternal spouses, be able to create spirit children.

The maker of the video doesn't understand that those who failed their first estate, which was our premortal existence as spirits, was Lucifer and his followers. They were denied the opportunity to receive bodies of flesh and bones and could not have had intercourse with Adam and Eve's posterity. They were cast out of heaven into the earth but were never to receive bodies of flesh and bones. Only after the days of Christ were the dead in Christ able to receive resurrected bodies and appear unto mankind as such in physical bodies of flesh and bones. A translated being could have appeared but they would only have appeared as holy men never to fornicate with mankind as they would never have received such a blessing of translation without being worthy and righteous. The maker of the video would have you believe that the sons of God are only angelic beings. However, in this verse:

Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.​

It tells us that any who are led by the spirit of God are the sons of God. This includes both angels, who I believe are mankind, and we who are mortals who receive the messages from our brothers or sisters who are angels. Job 38 says that the morning stars and all the sons of God shouted for joy and our video maker uses this as proof that they are angels. But I believe that we all existed before coming to this earth as the spirit children of God and that it was us who were those who shouted for joy before we were born into this life. As the spirit children of God and his offspring (see Acts 17:28-29) we held council before coming to earth and as Psalms 82:6 tells us, we are gods, even children of the most high. When Jesus quotes Psalms 82:6 and then in John 10 he is refuting the Scribes and Pharisees who wanted to stone him for claiming he was the son of God. His logic was that we are all sons of God and thus gods so why the Pharisees claiming it blasphemy to say he was the son of God? Finally, he is correct when stating that we again become the sons of God when we are spiritually "Born AGAIN". We are adopted into the family of God but why are we considered "Born Again?" It is because we were the sons of God who shouted for joy before the foundation of this world. It was us who fought against Lucifer and his minions in the war in heaven. But after coming to this life, we have become fallen man and need to be reborn with the spirit of God and again become his children ready to follow our true Father. A careful study of Revelation 12:7-11 tells us that it was us who fought in the war in heaven.

Revelation 12:7-11
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimonies; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Notice that they who fought against Satan in the war in heaven then come to earth and need the blood of the Lamb to overcome him and love not their lives unto the death.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Clearly you read it and apply your own interpretation. Provide me your interpretation and I'll provide mine.

I don't care about your interpretation.
I read to you what it actually SAYS

If I tell you "the sky is blue", if you interpret that as meaning, "the sky is red," I'm not interested in your interpretation

 

[Carl in Michigan]

In The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, we believe that an angel is nothing more than an messenger of God and that angels are either premortal spirits of mankind, sometimes mortal mankind

Your belief is false and not biblical.

 

[onefour1]

Your belief is false and not biblical.

prove it.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

prove it.

Angels and Man are not the same.

There are no human souls floating around waiting for a host body.

Angels are different beings

The earth was inhabited by Lucifer and 1/3 of all angels.

Those angels corrupted themselves and went to war on heaven (they lost bigly)

Satan is the god of this world UNTIL Christ returns and throws Satan and his demons in prison

 

[onefour1]

Angels and Man are not the same.

Where's the proof?

There are no human souls floating around waiting for a host body.

Where's the proof?

Angels are different beings

Where's the proof?

The earth was inhabited by Lucifer and 1/3 of all angels.

Lucifer and 1/3 of the hosts of heaven was cast out of heaven into the earth after rebelling against God. They were men (see Isaiah 14:12-17)

Isaiah 14:12-17
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?

According to verse 16, Lucifer is a man!!! Imagine that!!

Those angels corrupted themselves and went to war on heaven (they lost bigly)

True but they were among the children of God at first before they warred against God and his remaining children. They were then cast to the earth as the devil and his angels.

Satan is the god of this world UNTIL Christ returns and throws Satan and his demons in prison

No argument there!

 

[onefour1]

All who minister to this earth as angels of God belong to this earth and eventually will be mortals on earth or have been mortals on this earth.

Doctrine and Covenants 130:5
5 I answer, Yes. But there are no angels who minister to this earth but those who do belong or have belonged to it.

 

[LibertyKid]

I don't care about your interpretation.
I read to you what it actually SAYS

If I tell you "the sky is blue", if you interpret that as meaning, "the sky is red," I'm not interested in your interpretation

Then you clearly stand in the camp of the 80% of westernized 'christians' who have no idea why they believe what they believe. Christians should not fear defending their faith by taking their ball of faith and running home.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Then you clearly stand in the camp of the 80% of westernized 'christians' who have no idea why they believe what they believe. Christians should not fear defending their faith by taking their ball of faith and running home.

I do and have. But I won't go in and on endlessly with those who only live to argue

Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly. 17 Their teaching will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus

 

[Woodznutz]

I don't see any reason to believe that because angels can take physical (human-like) form that means the earth was created for them in the first place. I mean, they were in Heaven, not earth, but some were sent to earth. I've never seen anything that even remotely implies that the earth was created for them.

As for the question that remains.... why wouldn't it create an entirely different type of being, since it was the mixing of two different types of beings?

Here's just one of the problems with the Sethite view. Why would the union of humans + humans create giants? That is nonsensical. The bible is clear that there were giants in those days. Not only that, but beings that had a higher intelligence than humans.

Also, the angelic interpretation fits with the ancient stories from nearly every culture in this world... that there were "demigods" and stories of beings that came down to earth from another place and mixed with humans. Again, nearly every ancient culture tells the same story, but from different perspectives.

All things are possible.

Job 38 strongly suggests that the earth was created for the angels.

1 Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,

2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?

3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.

4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?

6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;

7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

This occurred billions of years before the restoration in Genesis One and the creation of man.

Jude verse 6 also supports this. Earth was the 'estate' and 'habitation' of the angels. It still is until Christ returns.

6 "And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day."

 

[LibertyKid]

I do and have. But I won't go in and on endlessly with those who only live to argue

Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly. 17 Their teaching will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus

But you're assuming I want to engage in godless chatter. I have a viewpoint, so do you, there is nothing bad or anti-christian in comparing notes. Which, Christianity has done for thousands of years. Why stop now?

 

[buttercup]

All things are possible.

Job 38 strongly suggests that the earth was created for the angels.

1 Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,

2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?

3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.

4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?

6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;

7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

This occurred billions of years before the restoration in Genesis One and the creation of man.

Jude verse 6 also supports this. Earth was the 'estate' and 'habitation' of the angels. It still is until Christ returns.

6 "And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day."

I don't see anything there at all about the earth being made for angels. They existed before the earth was created, and the Job verse implies that they saw God create the earth, but it doesn't say anything about the earth being made for them.

And Jude 6 does not say that! In fact, what is implied is the exact opposite. When it talks about the 'domain' or 'estate' that they left, one of the most common interpretations of that is that they left the heavenly realm. THAT was their first estate, not earth!

Another way that Jude 6 is interpreted goes along with what I was talking about, the Genesis 6 angels who rebelled and mixed with human women. With that interpretation, it basically means they did not keep their proper role, or "principality".... but instead chose to rebel by mating with human women.

I've never seen ANY bible commentary that says that the proper habitation of the angels was earth, it's always the exact opposite.

In fact, I'm starting to wonder if you're just trolling again, as you seem to do on controversial topics.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

I don't see anything there at all about the earth being made for angels. They existed before the earth was created, and the Job verse implies that they saw God create the earth, but it doesn't say anything about the earth being made for them.

And Jude 6 does not say that! In fact, what is implied is the exact opposite. When it talks about the 'domain' or 'estate' that they left, one of the most common interpretations of that is that they left the heavenly realm. THAT was their first estate, not earth!

Another way that Jude 6 is interpreted goes along with what I was talking about, the Genesis 6 angels who rebelled and mixed with human women. With that interpretation, it basically means they did not keep their proper role, or "principality".... but instead chose to rebel by mating with human women.

I've never seen ANY bible commentary that says that the proper habitation of the angels was earth, it's always the exact opposite.

In fact, I'm starting to wonder if you're just trolling again, as you seem to do on controversial topics.

He's right. He's not the only one who understands this.

Yes the angels existed before the creation of the world, but we don't know how long.

We do know 1/3 of the angels were placed on the earth. Lucifer was their king/governor, under God.

We also know these angel went to war against heaven before the creation of Man. Jesus remarked that He saw Lucifer fall from heaven like lightning.

For this reason He created PHYSICAL MAN, who could (would) be destroyed if he turned like the fallen angels.