Zone1 What does The Chosen People actually mean?

[rosends]

OK.

Does that mean that you don't think that, for instance, that a person who claims to believe in the Hebrew God, Moses, the Prophets, the ten Commandments and all, but then openly commits idolatry does not die, "the death", in the very same day they brazenly set aside the Law to seek spiritual life from that which is not God?

Isn't the fact that they cannot see the absurdity in their practices evidence that they have their reward already? "The death" a curse. See? No human element necessary, no court needed to judge guilt or enforce the Law.

If you think a human court is necessary how is it that so many people have died "the death" for sin without one?

Because of the strictures in the system, it is difficult to find someone guilty in a Jewish court so our system teaches that if someone is guilty but it is it punishable by the court God will exact the penalty. Thus is also the case when there is no Jewish court endowed with the power to enforce laws

 

[hobelim]

Because of the strictures in the system, it is difficult to find someone guilty in a Jewish court so our system teaches that if someone is guilty but it is it punishable by the court God will exact the penalty. Thus is also the case when there is no Jewish court endowed with the power to enforce laws

That explains some things. Thank you. But my question is really about why people who are not Jewish observe no law and even brazenly defy the Law of God still demonstrate the deeply disturbing consequences for sin?

Death, a curse.

Without any human courts, judges, or involvement. Without even having a belief in God.

 

[rosends]

That explains some things. Thank you. But my question is really about why people who are not Jewish observe no law and even brazenly defy the Law of God still demonstrate the deeply disturbing consequences for sin?

Death, a curse.

Without any human courts, judges, or involvement.

People who aren't Jewish are bound by the Niachidd, universal laws. With no religious court so empowered any punishment on that front is entrusted to God.

 

[hobelim]

People who aren't Jewish are bound by the Niachidd, universal laws. With no religious court so empowered any punishment on that front is entrusted to God.

Then I don't know why anyone is waiting for the kingdom of God to come.

His Law is already in effect and in full force.

 

[rosends]

Then I don't know why anyone is waiting for the kingdom of God to come.The Law is already in effect and in full force.

People follow their beliefs. It is what it is.

 

[hobelim]

People follow their beliefs. It is what it is.

I guess so. The law of cause and effect doesn't need any courts or human element to enforce.. If you fill your head with the flesh of unclean creatures, irrational garbage, it will defile and contaminate your mind and you will lose your sanity. In other words, you will surely die.

Cause and effect.

 

[hobelim]

People who aren't Jewish are bound by the Niachidd, universal laws

How do you resolve that position that there are separate laws for Gentiles with the scripture that states that that the Law was given as "a light to the nations"? Doesn't "a light to the nations" mean all nations? Seriously.

I know that you can see that all people who violate the deeper implications of Kosher Law suffer the same consequences, "the death", a curse, whatever nationality, whether Jewish or Gentile, religious or atheist, wealthy or poor, republican or democrat, conservative or liberal, wise or foolish, fit or crippled , young or old, healthy or sick, cop or criminal, capitalist or communist, stoned or sober, gay, straight, bi, trans, or anywhere in between.

The evidence is all over these pages. If you can't see this I will be happy to show you many clear examples.

And there are no dietary restrictions in Noahide laws, whether literal or allegorical, so why do all people suffer the same consequences for setting aside Jewish law and eating the flesh of unclean creatures that do not ruminate?

So how can you say that people who are not Jewish have a separate law? Again, how do you resolve this?

 

[BreezeWood]

So how can you say that people who are not Jewish have a separate law? Again, how do you resolve this?

jewish is not a religion ...

they chose their prophets as to their own persuasion than that of the heavens and refers back to the 1st century events their crucifixion of a true heavenly exemplar, jesus that condemns their own that are not till reconciliation for their betrayal or for all eternity.

 

[rosends]

How do you resolve that position that there are separate laws for Gentiles with the scripture that states that that the Law was given as "a light to the nations"? Doesn't "a light to the nations" mean all nations? Seriously.

Why do you state that the Law was "a light unto the nations"? Judaism understands that line in Isaiah to refer to Isaiah's role as a light to the Jews (Rashi) or to the non-Jews (malbim). The Metzudat David sees it as a messianic reference and the Radak sees it as the nation of Israel's role . Can you show me a source which points to the Law as being the light?

I know that you can see that all people who violate the deeper implications of Kosher Law suffer the same consequences, "the death", a curse, whatever nationality, whether Jew or Gentile, believer or unbeliever.

Kosher laws are for Jews. I'm not sure what "deeper implications" you are talking about.

And there are no dietary restrictions in Noahide laws, whether literal or allegorical,

sure there are!

452. Surprisingly Universal: The prohibition against eating a limb torn from a live animal - Taryag - OU Torah

Not to eat ”eiver min hachai” – that is, a limb torn from a live animal - is not only a mitzvah that Jews were commanded, it is one of the seven universal (Noa

outorah.org

so why do all people suffer the same consequences for setting aside Jewish law and eating the flesh of unclean creatures that do not ruminate?

they don't

So how can you say that people who are not Jewish have a separate law? Again, how do you resolve this?

I'm not sure where you see a problem here.

 

[hobelim]

jewish is not a religion ...

they chose their prophets as to their own persuasion than that of the heavens and refers back to the 1st century events their crucifixion of a true heavenly exemplar, jesus that condemns their own that are not till reconciliation for their betrayal or for all eternity.

"For if you were cut off from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these who are the natural branches be grafted into their own olive tree?"

 

[hobelim]

Kosher laws are for Jews. I'm not sure what "deeper implications" you are talking about.

I'll make it simple.

One cannot comply with the literal interpretation and application of the Law that forbids eating the flesh of swine that do not ruminate without violating the deeper implications of the same exact Law because THE TEACHING that the subject of kosher Law is about clean or unclean food is THE FLESH of swine that do not ruminate.

 

[hobelim]

Can you show me a source which points to the Law as being the light?

and the world was without shape or form, (lawless) and void (pointless) and darkness (ignorance) covered the face of the deep (the unknown) and God said, "Let there be light".

The creation of heaven and earth is a story about the Law coming into the world through Moses as a light that divides day from night, clean from unclean, true from false, right from wrong, good from evil, life from death.

 

[rosends]

I'll make it simple.

One cannot comply with the literal interpretation and application of the Law that forbids eating the flesh of swine that do not ruminate without violating the deeper implications of the same exact Law because THE TEACHING that the subject of kosher Law is about clean or unclean food is the flesh of swine that do not ruminate.

That's not really simple nor is it accurate. What are the "deeper implications"? If you are equating the teaching with the flesh of swine then that's your personal understanding and not one that has any relevance to Judaism.

 

[rosends]

and the world was without shape or form, (lawless) and void (pointless) and darkness (ignorance) covered the face of the deep (the unknown) and God said, "Let there be light".

right. And there was light. That has nothing to do with anything else.

The creation of heaven and earth is a story about the Law coming into the world through Moses as a light that divides day from night, clean from unclean, true from false, right from wrong, good from evil, life from death.

that's your (unJewish) opinion and interpretation. Good luck with that.

 

[hobelim]

That's not really simple nor is it accurate. What are the "deeper implications"?

Psst!

I just told you.

Have you been eating baloney?

Tsk tsk.

 

[rosends]

Psst!

I just told you.

Have you been eating baloney?

Tsk tsk.

you have made stuff up and are expecting me to buy into your understanding of things. That's not how it works.

 

[hobelim]

that's your (unJewish) opinion and interpretation. Good luck with that.

UnJewish? lol. Do you even have an inkling how pathetic that response is? No? That's a shame!

 

[hobelim]

you have made stuff up and are expecting me to buy into your understanding of things. That's not how it works.

Don't be silly. I did not expect anything other than the way you responded to rational questions. So relax.

No one is going to take away your cherished delusions.

However I do wonder what yeshiva failed to alert you to the fact that there is hidden meaning in the Law.

 

[rosends]

UnJewish? lol. Do you even have an inkling how pathetic that response is? No? That's a shame!

It is squarely outside the realm of Judaism and Jewish thought, making it "unJewish". Do you not understand?

 

[rosends]

Don't be silly. I did not expect anything other than the way you responded to rational questions. So relax.

No one is going to take away your cherished delusions.

However I do wonder what yeshiva failed to alert you to the fact that there is hidden meaning in the Law.

I wonder what trauma caused your delusion that there is a hidden meaning that only you know.