What do people here think about Iraq during the 1980s when it was allied with the United States?

[FranklinRoosevelt_FTW]

Iraq was never an "ally" of the US. And in case you forgot, the US and other countries also provided weapons to Iran.

In essence, it was seen to be better to have those two nations fighting each other rather than other nations that most of the world did care about. Iraq was going to expand if it could, and nothing could be done to stop it. And better they fight Iran than say Jordan and Kuwait, which actually were our allies in the region.

And when they finally stopped fighting Iran, that is exactly what they did.

Many in the American military sphere and American citizens may disagree with that. I showed a video from the Baltimore Council from the 1980s where an Iraqi diplomat spoke in front of a huge crowd of Americans who cheered him on. Now here’s the thing when it came to the United States secretly supplying Iran with weapons via the “Iran contra affair” this was only done for a few months out of a war that lasted eight years between Iran and Iraq. And the United States again apologized for that … it’s certainly effected the Iraq USA relations although we had amicable relationships right up until Iraq invaded Kuwait. And once Iraq invaded Kuwait that really started the downfall of iraq at least according to many Iraqi‘s who claimed that… Iraq successfully to go for Kuwait in a matter of weeks they basically steamrolled the country. They occupied the country for about a month or two before the United States and the international community apparently said they don’t want it. And so when Iraq was facing the world in the first gulf war if they would’ve won it would’ve been a different story but that was a monumental hurdle. So when Iraq was kicked out of Kuwait and subsequently faced international sanctions up until 2003 this was what led to the downfall of Iraq. ….

Would Iraq have gone after Saudi Arabia or other gulf countries without US intervention …. who knows. ?

This is what anger so many people in the global south and frankly a lot of Americans. Who say wait a minute with United States hasn’t made it countries whatever we want. We’ve expand from 13 colonies the 50 states who are we to get into the affairs of other countries who are we to simply gas that other countries who invade one country will then go after another country.?



Btw there was a case iraq had for Kuwait. Kuwait used to belong to Iraq. And there was a dispute between Kuwait and Iraq.. Kuwait was accused of slant oil drilling and taking oil from Iraq. Also yes Kuwait did give a large amount of money to Iraq to help fight Iran…. but iraqs argument was we were defending the entire gulf countries from Iran…. so Iraq asked Kuwait for some debt forgiveness(Kuwait said no) and again there was the accusation of slant oil drilling.



But for the United States to complain about Iraq’s military activities in Kuwait is kind of controversial considering how we consistently arm and support Israel. Israel can do whatever they want in the Palestinian territories whenever they want
with their military with no repercussion from the international community. This is something that is a massive issue even today when we are supporting Ukraine. It’s like why are we supporting Ukraine we’re not supporting the Palestinians that is clear hyprocrisy …..

And again the people of Israel would say hey we don’t need any American money anymore we can defend ourselves. And so Israel would look a lot better if they stopped taking billions of dollars from America each year.

 

[DudleySmith]

his is certainly the case that Israel was able to successfully defeat Arab country after Arab country. That’s all the more reason why we should not be giving billions of dollars a year to Israel.

We don't give them 'billions' for free, that's just a myth. They provide all kinds of services to the U.S., like intelligence, and extension of the AWACS type services beginning where NATO ends, and the capability to provide full service for American aircraft and ammunition and parts depots for a variety of military equipment. We merely stepped in and took over France's role of allies, is all. We get more benefits from the association than they do the majority of the time. We should give them a lot more.

A lot of people are just clueless and believe in that isolationist rubbish simply because they think it sounds good, never mind it has never worked in real life. They declare war on us anyway.

Israel is a tiny country. Tiny countries around the world rely on the U.S. to keep the larger dictatorships from swallowing them up, like Putin is hoping to do. We need to keep dictatorships from expanding and getting large enough to be a threat to us. We didn't learn that lesson in WW I,but we did in WW II and after. Some people woke up today and think all they have just popped up out of nowhere and they don't feel like paying for anything, is all. All this stuff was already here, so fuck everybody else. They have no clue.

 

[FranklinRoosevelt_FTW]

We don't give them 'billions' for free, that's just a myth. They provide all kinds of services to the U.S., like intelligence, and extension of the AWACS type services beginning where NATO ends, and the capability to provide full service for American aircraft and ammunition and parts depots for a variety of military equipment. We merely stepped in and took over France's role of allies, is all. We get more benefits from the association than they do the majority of the time. We should give them a lot more.

A lot of people are just clueless and believe in that isolationist rubbish simply because they think it sounds good, never mind it has never worked in real life. They declare war on us anyway.

Israel is a tiny country. Tiny countries around the world rely on the U.S. to keep the larger dictatorships from swallowing them up, like Putin is hoping to do. We need to keep dictatorships from expanding and getting large enough to be a threat to us. We didn't learn that lesson in WW I,but we did in WW II and after. Some people woke up today and think all they have just popped up out of nowhere and they don't feel like paying for anything, is all. All this stuff was already here, so fuck everybody else. They have no clue.

I am a critic of Israel myself. But I recognize there are good people in Israel hard-working construction workers or laborers for example. I know that there’s a myth that they’re all bankers and the Jews are all the money lenders and what not

Israel is a top 20 military in the world and for example is actually allied to Russia. I believe Russian is the third most spoken language in Israel of course after Hebrew and Arabic. So there’s a lot of interesting dynamics going on there between Russia and Israel. My own personal opinion on Russia as you probably already know as a positive one.

There’s a lot of folks in the world who view America as a dictatorship I would disagree with them. But that’s their view.

 

[DudleySmith]

There’s a lot of folks in the world who view America as a dictatorship I would disagree with them. But that’s their view.

Over two thirds of the world are shitholes run by organized crime and loony dictators. We don't need to care what they think.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

No, I was not asked my opinion. GWB was re-elected.

Democrats all voted for it also.

 

[DudleySmith]

I believe Russian is the third most spoken language in Israel of course after Hebrew and Arabic. So there’s a lot of interesting dynamics going on there between Russia and Israel.

True, but that is because so many Jews fled Russia from the 19th century onward, and many are still trying to get out. It's not like they love Russia. I haven't met a Russian Jew who wants to go back or do business with them. The organized crime syndicates probably do but they will do business with anybody.

 

[pknopp]

Democrats all voted for it also.

No, they all did not but yes, many did. I've noted that many times.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

No, they all did not but yes, many did. I've noted that many times.

Including Biden and Hillary

 

[FranklinRoosevelt_FTW]

True, but that is because so many Jews fled Russia from the 19th century onward, and many are still trying to get out. It's not like they love Russia. I haven't met a Russian Jew who wants to go back or do business with them. The organized crime syndicates probably do but they will do business with anybody.

There is a YouTube channel called the ask project. It’s a guy in Israel he goes around asking the people of Israel various questions about various topics one of them was the war in Ukraine ..and it’s about a 50-50 split half of the Israeli standby Russia because of what they did to liberate the concentration camps in World War II. The other half whatever reason and I really can’t believe it support Ukraine. The people who support Russia are saying that in World War II tons of Ukrainian supported the Nazis.

Lots of Russian Jews supported the Soviet union and were a big part of the Soviet political sphere. Vladimir Lenin was Jewish.

500,000 Jews fought for the Soviet union in World War II. I’ve always thought that the Jewish people who left Russia during the time of the ussr were the big time elites.

As I said before I am not a communist…. I don’t want communism for America but I respect the Soviet union for being on the right side in World War II. That’s my opinion on the matter.

 

[DudleySmith]

The people who support Russia are saying that they can World War II tons of Ukrainian supported the Nazis.

So did Finland. So what? Stalin murdered many millions of them by starvation and murder. Why would they support the Soviets?

 

[FranklinRoosevelt_FTW]

I’ll say this much about the United States of America. We are great country

I do not agree that Russia is a dictatorship.we can make the argument that Ukraine is a dictatorship. They have massive corruption issues

Also the United States is a huge country and it also invaded a smaller country in Iraq and Afghanistan and we have pretty much always invaded smaller countries. So I think there’s a different way to look at these events.

 

[FranklinRoosevelt_FTW]

So did Finland. So what? Stalin murdered many millions of them by starvation and murder. Why would they support the Soviets?

I don’t think one man ever makes a country whether it’s Joe Stalin or George W. Bush. But the answer to your question lay in the video I posted earlier. But I don’t agree with your line of questioning. Read the better question is what did the Soviets have to do in Finland during World War II. So I don’t agree with how you characterize your question. I don’t agree with mass criticism of the Soviet union. Because of what they did to liberate the concentration camps they were the good guys

There’s plenty of things I would criticize the Soviet union for. But I don’t believe it was one of the evil countries of history


There are truly horrendous countries to live in like the Islamic Republic of Iran , or Taliban controlled Afghanistan , or the Islamic state of Iraq. So A country like Russia it’s not a horrendous country. Neither was the Soviet union

 

[Mushroom]

Now here’s the thing when it came to the United States secretly supplying Iran with weapons via the “Iran contra affair” this was only done for a few months out of a war that lasted eight years between Iran and Iraq.

And the Soviets sold weapons throughout the conflict to both sides.

One of my favorite movie quotes about that conflict is "Did you ever consider I wanted both sides to lose? Bullets change governments for surer than votes."

 

[pknopp]

Including Biden and Hillary

Absolutely and I never supported either of them.

 

[DudleySmith]

And the Soviets sold weapons throughout the conflict to both sides.

One of my favorite movie quotes about that conflict is "Did you ever consider I wanted both sides to lose? Bullets change governments for surer than votes."

And the Soviets were providing the Japanese with oil and fuel throughout the war, while pretending to be our 'allies'.

 

[DudleySmith]

Read the better question is what did the Soviets have to do in Finland during World War II. So I don’t agree with how you characterize your question. I don’t agree with mass criticism of the Soviet union. Because of what they did to liberate the concentration camps they were the good guys

So it's okay for the Russians to invade small countries, but bad when they defend themselves form the nice Russians, and really really bad when we help the little countries defend themselves? The Germans crushed them. They were only in the war because the Brits rescued them and the U.S. paid their expenses. They weren't in the war to 'liberate the Jews'. They were in it to gain conquests, which is why they kept Poland, half of Germany, and a dozen other countries, then went back to focusing on subversion operations against us and Europe, the ME. Africa, and Asia. they started the Korean war, Viet Nam, the Arab invasions of Israel, Cuba, etc.

 

[DudleySmith]

So A country like Russia it’s not a horrendous country. Neither was the Soviet union

Well, when you handle all your political and economic problems with mass murders, yes, things will definitely 'improve' for the leadership once all the problems are dead.. No argument there ....

 

[FranklinRoosevelt_FTW]

So it's okay for the Russians to invade small countries, but bad when they defend themselves form the nice Russians, and really really bad when we help the little countries defend themselves? The Germans crushed them. They were only in the war because the Brits rescued them and the U.S. paid their expenses. They weren't in the war to 'liberate the Jews'. They were in it to gain conquests, which is why they kept Poland, half of Germany, and a dozen other countries, then went back to focusing on subversion operations against us and Europe, the ME. Africa, and Asia. they started the Korean war, Viet Nam, the Arab invasions of Israel, Cuba, etc.

For what it’s worth as I said I have no interest in the United States turning to communism or socialism. And I would agree that it appears that In it’s short history the Soviet union was a tougher place to live compared to the United States. But the Soviet union was the world superpower that sent the first man in space, it educated women while other countries of the world at the same time period were enslaved people and exterminating people based on their race. Yes I would rather live in the Soviet Union than a hell hole like the Islamic Republic of Iran or the Islamic state of Iraq and Syria.

But I believe in good foreign diplomacy…. and I believe in following the values of the men and women who fought in World War II and of the leaders of World War II who envisioned the worlds great powers would all working together post ww2. This is the point of the United Nations security council.

I don’t think war is OK at all. But I recognize that America has invaded other countries I recognize that the Soviet union has invaded other countries. But it’s interesting that when we compare Soviet expansion ism to American expansionism there’s no doubt about it that America expanded more successfully and was able to conquer vast territories with more resources with a lot to offer.

On the point about World War II. The fact of the matter is that it was the allies who liberated the concentration camps. And they were morally better than the axis powers who are enslaving people. So you say it was a joint effort I had a great deal of respect for all of the allied forces whether Soviet or American, British , Yugoslav partisians the French partisans ‘s you name it.

I do not agree with American exceptionalism for example… And what I see from the Warhawks in America who are criticizing Russia’s invasion of Ukraine is hypocrisy. I will just go back to the Vietnam war to Korea. Or the United States has influence the government of South America in the Middle East all over the world. The CIA has been involved allegedly in overthrowing various governments of the world and installing A pro American government like in Iran with Mohammed Mossadegh. This is just about the major powers of the world competing with each other its a part of human history.

It’s good to have competition in the world but at the same time the major powers of the world have to work together on things as well.

 

[DudleySmith]

I do not agree with American exceptionalism for example… And what I see from the Warhawks in America who are criticizing Russia’s invasion of Ukraine is hypocrisy. I will just go back to the Vietnam war to Korea.

Both were critical to containingRussian imperiailism. They were needed to prove to our allies we would stand behind them against both the Red Chinese and Soviet Union. You have really warped view, and keep claiming the U.S. was somehow evil and the Reds were all hapless victims. Rubbish. I find it funny you never refer to the Reds as warhawks and warmongers.

 

[Mushroom]

And the Soviets were providing the Japanese with oil and fuel throughout the war, while pretending to be our 'allies'.

I guess you have not heard, Japan has cut off almost all trade with Russia.

Japanese Imposed Sanctions Archives