What do people here think about Iraq during the 1980s when it was allied with the United States?

[basquebromance]

i'm too sleepy to have a long nuanced conversation about the middle east. it's 2:30 AM in lebanon. maybe some other time?

 

[FranklinRoosevelt_FTW]

i'm too sleepy to have a long nuanced conversation about the middle east. it's 2:30 AM in lebanon. maybe some other time?

No need for a long discussion. You don’t have to post here if you don’t want to.

Maybe come in tomorrow and provide a brief post describing your views of Iraq before 2003.

 

[basquebromance]

No need for a long discussion. You don’t have to post here if you don’t want to.

Maybe come in tomorrow and provide a brief post describing your views of Iraq before 2003.

well i became interested in politics because i hated bush and the iraq war. i'm only 34, so i'm too young to have an opinion about what happened before though i know about Saddam's ruthlessness

 

[EvilCat Breath]

This type of line of thinking could be said toward every so-called US alliance. But there are those within America and whatever countries we are working with that feel a genuine connection. Is often a connection between the people of the countries involved. And then there are those in the governments who only care about money and power to your point.


Testimonials from Arab speaks volumes and some of them say Iraq was a much much better country in the 1980s. I just go by the facts. Iraq was a country where women could dress as they want where they could rise up into the workforce let’s compare that to Iran, the Islamic Republic of Iran… a hell hole where women have to cover their hair there they can’t leave their homes without their hair covered.

The other point is I deeply admire the idea of the Arab nation, of Arab nationalism which goes back to life of Gamal Nasser of Egypt. And what we saw in Iraq in the 1980s and 1990s was unity between Arab Christians and Arab Muslims and that is something to admire. I mean anybody with a heart and a soul would admire that. Those who have the love of romance and of history would admire that.

Iraq used to have honor and dignity and now the country is influenced by Iran. But there are a lot of Iraqis to this day who are protesting that… they want to say hands off Iran we want our country back …I admire those people.

You are somewhat not understanding Iraq under Saddam Hussein. Hussein was such a cruel and sadistic dictator that he seldom slept two nights under the same roof. He has dozens of body doubles to confuse assassins. He never protected the Chaldeans. He ran them through plastic shredders, feet first. He made families of the executed watch. He tied gays into chairs and pushed them off rooftops. How could you have forgotten? How could you forget Hussein's odious sons who had women they fancied kidnapped off the street. After a night of rape and torture the girls had their throats cut and bodies dumped. How could you possibly find this honor and dignity? I am appalled.

The position of the United States has always been that Hussein was a degenerate son of a bitch but he was our degenerate son of a bitch so our leadership turned a complete blind eye to his predations on the Iraqui people. Yes, he kept the peace, so did Lenin.

 

[Grumblenuts]

I would say, "the enemy of my enemy is my friend"...for right now.

View attachment 759706

Rumsfeld shaking hands with Saddam. Which one was worse in retrospect? "Right now" who's "the enemy"? Who's their enemy? Who's "my friend"?

 

[FranklinRoosevelt_FTW]

You are somewhat not understanding Iraq under Saddam Hussein. Hussein was such a cruel and sadistic dictator that he seldom slept two nights under the same roof. He has dozens of body doubles to confuse assassins. He never protected the Chaldeans. He ran them through plastic shredders, feet first. He made families of the executed watch. He tied gays into chairs and pushed them off rooftops. How could you have forgotten? How could you forget Hussein's odious sons who had women they fancied kidnapped off the street. After a night of rape and torture the girls had their throats cut and bodies dumped. How could you possibly find this honor and dignity? I am appalled.

The position of the United States has always been that Hussein was a degenerate son of a bitch but he was our degenerate son of a bitch so our leadership turned a complete blind eye to his predations on the Iraqui people. Yes, he kept the peace, so did Lenin.

That is all hearsay my friend. How can you say that though when the second in command of Iraq was a Christian.

By the way the United States has Guantánamo Bay. We have one of the most brutal prison systems in the world. That type of violence is a worldwide issue. Putting Christians to plastic shutters, you can’t be serious with that type of propaganda can you? That makes no sense you do understand that the so-called Islamic government of Iran would often refer to Saddam Hussein as the “Christian president” because of how he had Christians in the highest position of power.



What is actually truly appalling is how countries like Iran force women to cover their hair. That’s wrong. And you know what is glorious and honorable the site of a strong Iraqi Christian or Iraqi Muslim fighting back against that terrorism. And that’s what was going on in the 1980s when Iran was fighting Iraq…. you had Iraq fighting for a secular vision and then the other side you had Iran fighting for brutal religious terrorism. Man what side are you on? I am really frankly surprised that you of all people to come in to this thread with your viewpoints.

Do you support Iran, do you support Israel?

I’m sorry man but Iraqi people who lived in the country would tell you otherwise. I don’t go by what a soundbite in the media say… I don’t go by what some guy from Iran or some person living in Iraq who is connected to Iran has to say about Saddam Hussein here because that was long an issue there in Iraq.

The Iraqi people in the 1980s and 1990s had to deal with Iranian influenced uprisings in their own country. How would we as Americans react if some group of Americans try to start uprising in our country? . That’s what the Iraqis had to deal with. By the way if those types of uprisings ever happened in America we would crush them and rightfully so.


Before the Islamic revolution in Iran ….Iran was home to a much better country the monarchy of Iran was actually trying to work out a deal with Iraq a peace deal of sorts they had the “Algiers agreement “ I believe it was called. But it all sort of blew up once that so-called Islamic revolution in Iran happend in 1979 which really had nothing to do with Islam….. an honorable and glorious religion.

When the so-called Islamic revolution started in Iran in 1979 it concerned the people of Iraq rightly who wanted nothing to do with that form of religious terrorism. Iraq was a secular country in the 1980s and those people deserve that. The Iraqi people built a society where women can go to work ….who the hell is against that. Who the hell in the world is against the vision against the site of a strong proud Arab Iraqi Christian woman being a lawyer or a doctor in Iraq, I’ll tell you who the lowlife theocrats of Iran those brutal people.


I go by what the Iraqi people have told me. A few of them have criticized Saddam Hussein but even those guys all said the country was way better off before 2003. But another part of the problem here is it’s not all about Saddam Hussein. one man does not make a country that’s always been a myth created by Warhawks and warmongers, and now BLM and the far left who are pushing this insane war against Russia and China. All based on nonsense everything we’re doing now and frankly since 2003 has gotten away from how our country used to act in the middle of the 20th century ….when we were a much better country.

 

[FranklinRoosevelt_FTW]

well i became interested in politics because i hated bush and the iraq war. i'm only 34, so i'm too young to have an opinion about what happened before though i know about Saddam's ruthlessness

Apparently Hussein was admired in parts of Jordan.

Well I’ve spoken with Iraqi people and they have told me that Saddam was a good president for all of Iraq.

 

[Grumblenuts]

and now BLM and the far left who are pushing this insane war against Russia and China. All based on nonsense everything we’re doing now and frankly since 2003 has gotten away from how our country used to act in the middle of the 20th century when we were a much better country.

Utter nonsense. Why would "BLM" even give a crap? And the Democratic Party moving to the right as it has lately, changes nothing about the left. Real leftists remain anti-war by definition.

 

[FranklinRoosevelt_FTW]

Utter nonsense. Why would "BLM" even give a crap? And the Democratic Party moving to the right as it has lately, changes nothing about the left. Real leftists remain anti-war by definition.

I don’t see BLM doing anything at all and they’re major Democrat supporters which is practically the whole Democrat party to stop this insane funding of the Russia Ukraine war. They’re doing nothing brother. Like AOC she supports sending money to Ukraine and she’s a big-time pro BLM person.

It’s not nonsense it is a spot on analogy

 

[Grumblenuts]

I don’t see BLM doing anything at all and they’re major Democrat supporters which is practically the whole Democrat party to stop this insane funding of the Russia Ukraine war. They’re doing nothing brother. Like AOC she supports sending money to Ukraine and she’s a big-time pro BLM person.

It’s not nonsense it is a spot on analogy

Like Bernie, BLM, and AOC largely see themselves as having no choice but to work with and/or within the current existing power structure deemed "viable" by the corporate media and therefore the voting public at large. An extremely practical choice.. willingly being a part of the corporate duopoly and hoping that the side facing more toward the left will someday perhaps break free somehow.. Can't blame them too much for that. Bernie had many of us actual leftists believing that possible again for quite a while. But all was a pipedream nonetheless.

Even after having the DNC screw Bernie upside down and sideways, he still gave in, clinging to his precious committee chair powers; simply offering his new, hard won independent supporters and financial backers more promises and the finger.. twice. "Gee thanks, good luck! (suckers)." Too old and set in his ways to lead any real political revolution. Still a nice guy. Meant well. "Gee thanks, good luck! (coward)."

AOC and the rest of The Squad have proceeded similarly. Not always absolutely, but power tends to corrupt. Who knows? Perhaps where perks don't appear enough, threats to family and loved ones still get floated with plausible deniability?

BLM.. black people, in other words, as always, truly have nowhere else to go. What do you want from them? They just want to be treated equitably. They could form their own political party, and I'm not suggesting they shouldn't try, but for christsakes, they already comprise a small minority of the population at best. You along with at least 95% of the USMB membership here would simply dismiss them with, "They're not even Christian!" or some such BS.

Truth is, this corporate, laissez faire, capitalist experiment has definitely, mercifully, finally, run its course. All will soon have to choose between continuing to trust the billionaires to save us from themselves or actually fighting to get our country back. At that moment, political affiliations will evaporate. It will just become the many against the few. Many will die from both camps. But the whole will progress, culminating with the production of a giant relieving sound that may just blow the Earth out of its orbit..

 

[Grumblenuts]

"The many" not being leftists, but the vast majority who, in their heart of hearts, will suddenly realize that,

1. Enough truly is enough.
2. Those Having Too Much Yet Never Enough For Them have managed to completely fuck the rest of us dry.
3. Having to check out our own items after bothering to go to the store is just one insult too many.
4. We demand genuine social engagement in transacting business far more than "always paying less", speaking to a bot for five minutes before receiving any human contact whatsoever, being inundated with creepily targeted ads, legal threats, and unreadable fine print requiring digital signature.
5. There's something fundamentally wrong with having to remember the password that grants you access to one of your password managers so that you can actually see your passwords in order begin signing into to some multitiered password protected site or another.
6. Millions of people actually died from COVID. That it really was a worldwide pandemic requiring governments to implement emergency (not perfect) responses. That is wasn't just some wacky conspiracy fomented by the elite. That confirmed cases are still being reported.
7. Contrary to Reagan's absurd quip, governments exist to enhance the security of all and to promote the general welfare. Not to keep sending tanks and bombs to a non-NATO "ally" just to kill off some other non-NATO, fair weather "ally's" troops all because our oligarchs have somehow been deemed so much better than theirs at the moment.
8. Putin's fate should be left up to the Russian people, the war left up to the Russians and Ukrainians. If all the rest of us can manage to do is help them kill each other, then we should just get the fuck out entirely and let them sort it out. We have more than enough problems of our own to worry about.

 

[basquebromance]

 

[DudleySmith]

I've met a lot of individual Muslims I liked, even Iranian Mullah supporters I knew when working at a university here. I do not think Muslim /Arab culture lends itself well to open democratic societies and govts. though. Bush's approach to 'nation building' failed because it did not take that into account.

As for laughable Da Evul AMurkin Empire faggotry and rubbish, it's pretty simple: don't do dumbass shit like attack allies we have mutual defense treaties with.

 

[Matted Joybeard]

You are somewhat not understanding Iraq under Saddam Hussein. Hussein was such a cruel and sadistic dictator that he seldom slept two nights under the same roof. He has dozens of body doubles to confuse assassins. He never protected the Chaldeans. He ran them through plastic shredders, feet first. He made families of the executed watch. He tied gays into chairs and pushed them off rooftops. How could you have forgotten? How could you forget Hussein's odious sons who had women they fancied kidnapped off the street. After a night of rape and torture the girls had their throats cut and bodies dumped. How could you possibly find this honor and dignity? I am appalled.

The position of the United States has always been that Hussein was a degenerate son of a bitch but he was our degenerate son of a bitch so our leadership turned a complete blind eye to his predations on the Iraqui people. Yes, he kept the peace, so did Lenin.

Hey, leave Lenin out of this.

 

[Matted Joybeard]

This type of line of thinking could be said toward every so-called US alliance. But there are those within America and whatever countries we are working with that feel a genuine connection. Is often a connection between the people of the countries involved. And then there are those in the governments who only care about money and power to your point.


Testimonials from Arab speaks volumes and some of them say Iraq was a much much better country in the 1980s. I just go by the facts. Iraq was a country where women could dress as they want where they could rise up into the workforce let’s compare that to Iran, the Islamic Republic of Iran… a hell hole where women have to cover their hair there they can’t leave their homes without their hair covered.

The other point is I deeply admire the idea of the Arab nation, of Arab nationalism which goes back to life of Gamal Nasser of Egypt. And what we saw in Iraq in the 1980s and 1990s was unity between Arab Christians and Arab Muslims and that is something to admire. I mean anybody with a heart and a soul would admire that. Those who have the love of romance and of history would admire that.

Iraq used to have honor and dignity and now the country is influenced by Iran. But there are a lot of Iraqis to this day who are protesting that… they want to say hands off Iran we want our country back …I admire those people.

Iran is a hell ok. You know what's better than honor? Inner.

 

[DudleySmith]

That is all hearsay my friend. How can you say that though when the second in command of Iraq was a Christian.

All governments reflect the values of the people they govern, including Saddam. It can't be any other way. Some grown ups will admit this fact, others will act like 8 year olds who still believe in Santa Claus and just keep perpetuating the myths and of course never change anything.

 

[whitehall]

In the 2nd half of the 20th century every administration trusted the CIA to do it's dirty work in foreign relations but the CIA seemed to fuck it up every chance they got. Whatever relationship the Reagan dministration had with Irq or Iran was part of the CIA's strategy.

 

[Mushroom]

Iraq was supplied lethal weapon by the United States , France and other countries during the 1980s to fight against Iran.

Iraq was never an "ally" of the US. And in case you forgot, the US and other countries also provided weapons to Iran.

In essence, it was seen to be better to have those two nations fighting each other rather than other nations that most of the world did care about. Iraq was going to expand if it could, and nothing could be done to stop it. And better they fight Iran than say Jordan and Kuwait, which actually were our allies in the region.

And when they finally stopped fighting Iran, that is exactly what they did.

 

[DudleySmith]

Iraq and other Arab countries were in the Soviet sphere of influence until the early 1970's. Most people like to forget that in their selective historical memories of Da Evul Amurkin Empire's Evul Past. They only dumped the SU after Israel handed the Arab states their asses in 1973, thanks to LBJ's Cold War policies, continued by Nixon. We were still backing the Shah, and rightly so, as we can see from the results of the Mullahs' rule. The Arabs needed a scapegoat for their embarrassing losses so they blamed the SU for not giving them more advanced armor and gear, which of course is ridiculous, plus the SU was bankrupted by then and was relying on western wheat and refined petroleum products iports from the West, including the U.S.

Blaming the CIA for general ME craziness is a form of mental illness, like TDS and BDS.

 

[FranklinRoosevelt_FTW]

Iraq and other Arab countries were in the Soviet sphere of influence until the early 1970's. Most people like to forget that in their selective historical memories of Da Evul Amurkin Empire's Evul Past. They only dumped the SU after Israel handed the Arab states their asses in 1973, thanks to LBJ's Cold War policies, continued by Nixon. We were still backing the Shah, and rightly so, as we can see from the results of the Mullahs' rule. The Arabs needed a scapegoat for their embarrassing losses so they blamed the SU for not giving them more advanced armor and gear, which of course is ridiculous, plus the SU was bankrupted by then and was relying on western wheat and refined petroleum products iports from the West, including the U.S.

Blaming the CIA for general ME craziness is a form of mental illness, like TDS and BDS.

This is certainly the case that Israel was able to successfully defeat Arab country after Arab country. That’s all the more reason why we should not be giving billions of dollars a year to Israel. Frankly a lot of people in Israel say we don’t even need this anymore it’s not a good look for our country we shouldn’t be taking this. As is because of the financial support from America Israel looks like a country that has its hands out for money every year…

Whatever success or drawbacks we see in the Middle East is largely due to the leader ship and the people of those countries.

Iraq nationalized its oil sometime in the late 1970s when Saddam Hussein was Vice President….. The way I see it and frankly if you talk to people from the Middle East including Iraqis they will tell you that during the 1970s and 1980s Iraq had one of the best economies in the Middle East. They were doing the right things.