What did our founders really mean when they said “general welfare”?

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Abraham Lincoln knew best, when he wrote that laborers always come first.

In his first annual message to Congress in 1861, Lincoln declared, “labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration.”
worldhistory.us › historical-biographies › abraham-lincoln-and-labor
Abraham Lincoln and Labor | World History

 

[jc456]

Abraham Lincoln knew best, when he wrote that laborers always come first.

Unemployment means laborers are always available, don’t like your job move on

 

[woodwork201]

As laid out be Congress, signed by the President, and judged by SCOTUS.

No, the Supreme Court does not make a thing constitutional; the Constitution makes a thing constitutional. The Government, including Congress, was created by the Constitution. Any power they take upon themselves outside of that is tyranny. Yes, they can exercise tyranny by the power of their greater numbers of guns and their prison cells. That doesn't make it constitutional.

 

[Mac-7]

Good luck with your new bedfellow.

I’ll take Brokeloser over the illegal aliens that you carry water for

 

[woodwork201]

Businesses want a low wage workforce to increase their bottom line
If they had to pay a wage that allowed its workers to live in their community, they would lose profit

So the US taxpayer subsidizes their food, housing, healthcare and transportation so they can work cheaply

So you're suggesting that working class taxpayers should pay the wages of illegal aliens working in the factories owned by big corporations to protect the profits of corporations whose business models aren't otherwise going to be successful? Kind of like making blue collar workers pay the student loans of lawyers and others making 300K or more?

 

[Foxfyre]

Who lives their lives creating profit for the bosses?
A business makes a profit off of every employee

If business didn't make a profit from every employee they would go out of business or reduce themselves to mom and pop operations with no employees. Employees trade their labor, experience, expertise for the highest wages they can get. If they do not produce enough to cover those wages plus the overhead to have them on the payroll plus a reasonable profit for the employer, they are either fired, laid off or their job goes away.

The employer doesn't work for the employer's benefit nor is the employer in business for the employee's benefit. But they mutually benefit each other looking to their own interests.

 

[rightwinger]

If business didn't make a profit from every employee they would go out of business or reduce themselves to mom and pop operations with no employees. Employees trade their labor, experience, expertise for the highest wages they can get. If they do not produce enough to cover those wages plus the overhead to have them on the payroll plus a reasonable profit for the employer, they are either fired, laid off or their job goes away.

The employer doesn't work for the employer's benefit nor is the employer in business for the employee's benefit. But they mutually benefit each other looking to their own interests.

My point is that jobs are not a gift that business gives to workers.
It is where they make their profit

 

[rightwinger]

So you're suggesting that working class taxpayers should pay the wages of illegal aliens working in the factories owned by big corporations to protect the profits of corporations whose business models aren't otherwise going to be successful? Kind of like making blue collar workers pay the student loans of lawyers and others making 300K or more?

I am suggesting that you have no idea what I was talking about

 

[Foxfyre]

My point is that jobs are not a gift that business gives to workers.
It is where they make their profit

Agreed. Nor does the worker give his labor to the boss as a gift or as a requirement of the boss. It is to the boss's advantage to keep good people who make him profits and it is to the worker's advantage to make the boss profits in order to keep his/her job and hopefully merit raises, promotions, better benefits etc. And if they happen to like each other and come to care about each other that is the ideal situation but it is not necessary. Again both look to their own interests but in the process benefit each other.

On a global scale the same principle makes capitalism work as we all have millions of people, all looking to their own interest, that make it possible for us to have the products, services, and jobs that we have.

The Founders saw the role of the federal government to facilitate that process with the general welfare clause. It had zero to do with the government providing any form of charity to anybody.

Whenever government unconstitutionally inserts itself to micromanage any part of that process, it will invariably sidetrack some of the efficiency and effectiveness.

"GEN’ERAL: Public; common; relating to or comprehending the whole community; as the general interest or safety of a nation.

WELFARE: Exemption from any unusual evil or calamity; the enjoyment of peace and prosperity, or the ordinary blessings of society and civil government; applied to states.

Websters 1828 Dictionary"

General Welfare Clause

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; Article I, Section…

constitutionstudy.com

 

[Orangecat]

My point is that jobs are not a gift that business gives to workers.

Correct. Employers pay employees to perform a task. If the employee doesn’t agree on the amount being paid, they don’t accept the job/task offered.

 

[Orangecat]

I am suggesting that you have no idea what I was talking about

That makes two of you.

 

[woodwork201]

I am suggesting that you have no idea what I was talking about

That may be your suggestion but your statement was that middle-class Americans should be paying the way for wealthy college graduates like doctors and lawyers.

 

[jc456]

Abraham Lincoln knew best, when he wrote that laborers always come first.

In his first annual message to Congress in 1861, Lincoln declared, “labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration.”
worldhistory.us › historical-biographies › abraham-lincoln-and-labor
Abraham Lincoln and Labor | World History

inventors invent and normally their invention is taken by another and used for products. Also, farmers bring their own goods to sell, and work their own land, so their labor is their investment. People who want to make a dollar look for opportunities and they help increase profitability, but not if the owner did not exist. I don't buy this one from Lincoln.

 

[jc456]

Correct. Employers pay employees to perform a task. If the employee doesn’t agree on the amount being paid, they don’t accept the job/task offered.

there is always someone to work for the money offered. unions interfered in that arrangement, and implanted their profits between the laborer and the owner. Sham!!!!!!! the laborer pays the union boss's salary with their money. The union boss does absolutely nothing for the success of a company. NOTHING

 

[dblack]

What did the founders mean by "general welfare"? Well, they meant "Hey, you know all that nonsense about limiting the federal government to specific functions? We were totally kidding! Can't believe you all fell for that!"

 

[Dirk the Daring]

Businesses want a low wage workforce to increase their bottom line
If they had to pay a wage that allowed its workers to live in their community, they would lose profit

So the US taxpayer subsidizes their food, housing, healthcare and transportation so they can work cheaply

Bull. Businesses want a low wage workforce because of CONSUMER greed. Consumers want to pay the lowest possible price. Would you rather pay $500 for that cellphone in your pocket or $2500?

 

[BrokeLoser]

Confirming the OP

NOPE…I don’t think you know the definition of “GENERAL”….Do you?

 

[Harry Dresden]

NOPE…I don’t think you know the definition of “GENERAL”….Do you?

 

[BrokeLoser]

View attachment 1022248

What does that mean? Can you articulate a point?

 

[dblack]

The general welfare clause is a limitation on the taxation power, not an implied power to spend money. Twisting that around is where Hamliton's about face fucked us.