What did GWB do to cause the great recession? DJIA crash? Financial meltdown?

[Sallow]

Why are you fiegning stupid?
They used legal manuvering to not impliment the parts of the bill that protected the people from the BANKs having a free run of everything.

I have explained it to you several times on here and you just keep pretending the facts are not on the table.

Tell me on what date the broker rules in GLBact were implimented and what day the the bulk of the bill was implimented?


That is all you have to know

Because he asked a question he thought would not have any cogent answers.

He forgets many of us actually work in the financial industry. So he's in a quandry.

 

[Sallow]

It wasn't Bill Clinton's bill..it was authored by 2 Republicans, passed Congress and signed by Bill Clinton.

By that logic, I hope you don't credit Clinton for the Welfare Reform Act or Balanced Budget Act.

You miss the part where I said it was a big mistake to sign it?

 

[Toro]

Deregulation.

But that was a continuum of the past two decades. In truth, politics played a minor roll in this. Bush was not much at fault.

Sure he was. The final meltdown in 2008 was not the first of his administration. He had plenty of reason to reverse years of deregulation..and the mandate to do it.

He chose not to.

So GWB not regulating the de regulation that Bill Clinton put in place is GWB fault?
FYI I do not blame Clinton for people being greedy and stupid
but it damn sure is not GWB fault

beside
Sarbanes
that was no little de regulation
you cannot legislate morality

Republicans on the SEC appointed by Bush voted to suspend capital requirements for the Big Five Wall Street firms. They then proceeded to blow themselves up. Also he appointed various officials throughout the agencies who either eased rules on mortgage lending or who refused to enforce those that existed.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

He was a Republican, that's how he did this.

 

[Sallow]

Deregulation.

But that was a continuum of the past two decades. In truth, politics played a minor roll in this. Bush was not much at fault.

Sure he was. The final meltdown in 2008 was not the first of his administration. He had plenty of reason to reverse years of deregulation..and the mandate to do it.

He chose not to.

Clinton was as much at fault as Bush. Maybe more so.

Is Clinton at fault? Yes. He was doing some horse trading..and probably thought any troubles from this would appear somewhere down the line. But it was a huge mistake on his part to sign it.

As much as Bush? Absolutely not.

 

[Truthmatters]

Why do you ignore the facts surrounding the broker rules written into the law?

 

[Truthmatters]

Sure he was. The final meltdown in 2008 was not the first of his administration. He had plenty of reason to reverse years of deregulation..and the mandate to do it.

He chose not to.

So GWB not regulating the de regulation that Bill Clinton put in place is GWB fault?
FYI I do not blame Clinton for people being greedy and stupid
but it damn sure is not GWB fault

beside
Sarbanes
that was no little de regulation
you cannot legislate morality

Republicans on the SEC appointed by Bush voted to suspend capital requirements for the Big Five Wall Street firms. They then proceeded to blow themselves up. Also he appointed various officials throughout the agencies who either eased rules on mortgage lending or who refused to enforce those that existed.

Thank you TORO

 

[midcan5]

As the nuns often reminded us there are sins of commission and sins of omission, Bush is guilty of both. It would be easy to just say Bush is/was a dummy when it came to governance, he gave the rich more money while the infrastructure collapsed, he invaded a nation illegally with no idea what would happen, and no idea how to fund it. His tax breaks gave those with too much money too much money to speculate and play games with derivatives and other fancy financial oddities. He failed to do what Reagan and Clinton did as deficits grew, raise taxes, he talked education but did not fund it. But in the end it is the republican ideology, that is the failure, as all R's since Coolidge prove.

For those interested in the reality that was the failure of republican politics, check out these two links. Is Bush to Blame for the Economy? And W. and the damage done - Global warming - Salon.com


For those who puzzle over why republicans always fail at government check out this piece. "Why Conservatives Can't Govern" by Alan Wolfe


For those who want to ponder republican fight against change. A Short History of Conservative Obstruction to Progress | Conceptual Guerilla


For those who want to understand republican thought check this out. The Rhetoric of Reaction - Albert O. Hirschman - Harvard University Press

Why anyone would still claim to be a republican is the mystery that is humankind.


Words from the last sane republican before sense gave way to insanity. "President Eisenhower describes his administration's political philosophy as 'dynamic conservatism,' then as 'progressive, dynamic conservatism,' then as 'progressive moderation,' then as 'moderate progressivism,' and then as 'positive progressivism.'" William Manchester

 

[Truthmatters]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GBAsFwPglw]YouTube - ‪Paul Weyrich - "I don't want everybody to vote" (Goo Goo)‬‏[/ame]

The founder of the CATO institute says it all

 

[JRK]

It wasn't Bill Clinton's bill..it was authored by 2 Republicans, passed Congress and signed by Bill Clinton. True..it was a huge mistake..but it could have been rectified by the Bush administration. And they had good reason to do so..after the Arthur Anderson debacle.

President George W. Bush had enough of a warning with the meltdowns of Enron, Worldcom and a host of others to know that regulation was way to lax. He chose to ignore it and worked tiressly to get rid of "Mark to Market" and water down Sarbanes-Oxley.

Glass
It had bi partisan support
Sarbanes-Oxley?
that was done with a Dem led senate and was a good bill

What did Enron in ability (by choice) in forecasting cost vs cash-flow have to do with the value of an asset such as real estate plummeting?
Enron was in the construction business
This crises was caused by paper that was had a value becoming paper that had a lower value or a much lower value
People stop paying there bills because they were loaned money they should not have been loaned
credit locked up
Whats that got to do with Enron?

There's much more to it then that. And Enron wasn't the only company to go south. It primarily failed because auditors were no longer blocked from profiting from the people they audited. That's a bad and very dangerous situation. That should have been a resounding alarm to bring back Glass-Stegall or some form of it that would of stopped this nonsense. Additionally it should have sent armies of government auditors to open the books of every major financial company. That would have sussed out several of the schemes in the works to bundle up subprime loans as securities, insuring them with AIG and selling them as a product no one really understood.

Companies go south every day, not the size of Enron
Enron has nothing to do with any president
those who caused that crap were thieves
You cannot legislate morality

 

[spectrumc01]

Why was the bill called the GRAMM LEACH BILIEY act?

Because it was written By Phil Gramm.

The reason bill Clinton signed it was because it had those protections in it to keep this type of shit from happening.

The Bush admin held up those VERY protections to make it a FREE FOR ALL for the lenders.

The economy we now have is a result of their dishonest chopping up of the bill.


You asked and you have recieved a SEC document to PROVE how shitty your Bush was.

Let me get this straight
A bill that had bi partisan support
Glass
signed by a president prior to GWB
That was being abused by individuals in the free market, both lendee, lender and stock broker
was GWB fault?
how?
I ask a very legitimate question
The only Government action to create this monster took place in 1999. your blaming that event on a person that had nothing to do with it in 2007 as though it was his fault?
How does the FBI prevent crime?
it does not most of the time
It enforces the crime

If a man is hit by a car and dies, but didn't have to because a doctor was five feet away, is it the doctors fault that he died? No the doctor is not responsible for the accident that caused the injuries but he is responsible for the death because he could have prevented it.
GWB is not at fault for the crisis but he is responsible for not preventing the following collapse.

 

[Truthmatters]

YOU ARE WRONG Spectrum and the SEC link I gave you here proves that.

The Bush admin held up the proitections in the law FOR YEARS with legal manuvering.

Only PART of the law was EVER inforced under Bush.

The part that allowed the Banks to do WHATEVER they wanted.

 

[Wry Catcher]

The DOJ run by Cox under Bush put off implimenting the protections in the Gramm leach Bliely act until righ before they left office.

The bill Bill Clinton signed had broker definitions that would have made it so the banks had to hire TRAINED brokers

Without the protections in the law being implimented the brokers could be any smuck the banks hired and then trained their own way.

They gamed the system so that the banks could roll shitbag loans into securities and then sell them off to unsupecting buyers while their "brokers" would have no idea what was going on.

So Bill Clinton's bill was GWB fault/
Rolling up those securities, now explain to me again what GWB did to cause that?
FYI
I do not blame Clinton either

It wasn't Bill Clinton's bill..it was authored by 2 Republicans, passed Congress and signed by Bill Clinton. True..it was a huge mistake..but it could have been rectified by the Bush administration. And they had good reason to do so..after the Arthur Anderson debacle.

President George W. Bush had enough of a warning with the meltdowns of Enron, Worldcom and a host of others to know that regulation was way to lax. He chose to ignore it and worked tiressly to get rid of "Mark to Market" and water down Sarbanes-Oxley.

I agree. On point, the reason Bush is blamed and should be blamed is shit hit the fan on his watch.
The near financial collapse, the attack on the WTC on Sept. 11, 2001 and too many days cutting brush in between these events explain why Bush, Jr. is to blame.

 

[JRK]

YOU ARE WRONG Spectrum and the SEC link I gave you here proves that.

The Bush admin held up the proitections in the law FOR YEARS with legal manuvering.

Only PART of the law was EVER inforced under Bush.

The part that allowed the Banks to do WHATEVER they wanted.

What did you prove?
That you cannot legislate morality?
It is against the law to loan money to anyone who has lied to get it
It is against the law to lie to anyone to get money from a institution that is regulated
Yet it happened and by 2007 it was way to late to stop it
No lies
No crises
laws were in place to stop it form the root cause

 

[JRK]

So Bill Clinton's bill was GWB fault/
Rolling up those securities, now explain to me again what GWB did to cause that?
FYI
I do not blame Clinton either

It wasn't Bill Clinton's bill..it was authored by 2 Republicans, passed Congress and signed by Bill Clinton. True..it was a huge mistake..but it could have been rectified by the Bush administration. And they had good reason to do so..after the Arthur Anderson debacle.

President George W. Bush had enough of a warning with the meltdowns of Enron, Worldcom and a host of others to know that regulation was way to lax. He chose to ignore it and worked tiressly to get rid of "Mark to Market" and water down Sarbanes-Oxley.

I agree. On point, the reason Bush is blamed and should be blamed is shit hit the fan on his watch.
The near financial collapse, the attack on the WTC on Sept. 11, 2001 and too many days cutting brush in between these events explain why Bush, Jr. is to blame.

what did GWB do to cause these events?
Why should we blame him? why do we?
9-11 was 19 insanly motivated Saudis with legal tickets and box cutters. in 2001 I could carry my pocket knife on a plane

The financial collapse?
what did GWB do to cause that?

 

[Truthmatters]

You silly silly man.

This SEC release without a doubt PROVES that the protections in the bill were kept from being implimented.

That means ONLY part of the bill was implimented.

That means the Bill Clinton signed was never fully implimented.


Pretend all you want and deny facts all you want.

It just makes you a parisan fool

 

[Twin Fist]

hmm...since we KNOW that fannie and freddie caused all this shit, and we KNOW that Bush tried to fix fannie and freddie and was stopped by DEMS, there is pretty much indisputable proof this crap is all the fault of the DEMOFUCKINGCRATS

 

[Truthmatters]

hmm...since we KNOW that fannie and freddie caused all this shit, and we KNOW that Bush tried to fix fannie and freddie and was stopped by DEMS, there is pretty much indisputable proof this crap is all the fault of the DEMOFUCKINGCRATS

what you have just done is to ignore reality and spew partisan bullshit that no economist worht his snuff will claim.

You are a partisan hack

 

[spectrumc01]

YOU ARE WRONG Spectrum and the SEC link I gave you here proves that.

The Bush admin held up the proitections in the law FOR YEARS with legal manuvering.

Only PART of the law was EVER inforced under Bush.

The part that allowed the Banks to do WHATEVER they wanted.

The arguement is over somantics, you are wrong, GWB "personally" didn't do anything to cause the collapse. Here is where you are right, his in-action to prevent the collapse by enforcing the protections makes him an accessory. I believe he is guilty for letting his buddies run rough shot over the economy causing the collapse.

 

[Truthmatters]

Yes he did do it personally.

Who allowed the SEC to run like this.

Lets remember where the Buck stops in this country.

Bush ran the country.

He was the Boss of the people at the SEC.

He knew what they were doing.

He allowed them to do it.