what choice would you make?????

[jon_forward]

What with the all the turmoil that the Illegal Immigrant has caused I have a question I would like to pose, no flaming or heated tempers please. just an HONEST answer to the question and we will see where this goes. I am dependent on a library pc so If It take a day or so for a response from me that is why.

Lets say that for the purpose of this question you are married and have 2 small children. The economy has tanked where you are living to the point that suffacent wages cant be made to take care of your small families simplest needs, shelter/food and clothing. you have been reduced to living in a tent out in the country with your spouse(I detest that word) and 2 small children. you dont know what to do. you have heard that over the Mountains there lays a land that is full of work, almost for the asking but it is against the law to go there. You are torn between staying where you are and watching your family suffer without the very neccessities or take a chance that you can make it over the Mountains and get a job that well let you care for your family. My question to you is this....what would you do, and why? give it some thought....

I will get back in a day or so.

 

[dilloduck]

False premise---the are legal ways to get here.

 

[brneyedgrl80]

But if time is of the essence legality may not play a factor. To become legal takes months, even years at least in America.

I'll have to think about this.

 

[dilloduck]

See if help was available from family or friends.

 

[brneyedgrl80]

That's very true. You could even get married to someone I guess so you could technically become a legal citizen.... I dunno... I still have to think about it.

side note: I wasn't being sarcastic, please don't take it that way.

 

[OCA]

Originally posted by dilloduck
See if help was available from family or friends.

Too much pride for that in the Spanish culture. Dillo are you saying you would rather your family starve then to risk breaking a law if you ever got to that situation? See I believe that at least in my case I can't understand the dynamics of that type of situation, I believe when survival is at stake a whole new set of priorities take over in a human being and we can't understand that until we are faced or put into a situation like that.

 

[freeandfun1]

Let me ask you this:

Why don't they fix their own country instead of just bringing their problems here?

 

[Captain_Steel]

Not my Fuckin problem. You wanna blame somebody blame the Mexican Government. They either come here legally, in limited numbers, or they die in Mexico. How dare you blame your own country for their misfortune.

 

[Captain_Steel]

Originally posted by OCA
Too much pride for that in the Spanish culture. Dillo are you saying you would rather your family starve then to risk breaking a law if you ever got to that situation? See I believe that at least in my case I can't understand the dynamics of that type of situation, I believe when survival is at stake a whole new set of priorities take over in a human being and we can't understand that until we are faced or put into a situation like that.

You just contradicted yourself saying that when survival is at stake, a whole new set of priorities takes over, and right before that saying there is too much pride in the spanish culture to ask for help from family or friends.

Using your own logic, they would be justified to tresspass across another countrys border and work illegally, but asking family or friends for assistance in doing it legally is out of the question, due to "too much pride in the spanish culture"

WTF?

 

[Merlin1047]

Let me reverse the analogy for you. You have worked all your life. You have been successful and accumulated some substantial wealth. Your spacious home is situated abut two miles from a slum.

Will you take your fence down so that the locals can come and help themselves any time they want to without even asking to come in?

Will you provide health care for them while they are trespassing on your property?

Will you adopt the children they have while in your home uninvited?

Will you purchase a van and hire a driver to take them back home?

Illegal immigration is about more than need. It's about the right of a sovereign nation to control its borders. And today, it's also about the desperate need to know who is in this country and for what purpose.

 

[Big D]

Originally posted by jon_forward

Lets say that for the purpose of this question you are married and have 2 small children. The economy has tanked where you are living to the point that suffacent wages cant be made to take care of your small families simplest needs, shelter/food and clothing. you have been reduced to living in a tent out in the country with your spouse(I detest that word) and 2 small children. you dont know what to do. you have heard that over the Mountains there lays a land that is full of work, almost for the asking but it is against the law to go there. You are torn between staying where you are and watching your family suffer without the very neccessities or take a chance that you can make it over the Mountains and get a job that well let you care for your family. My question to you is this....what would you do, and why? give it some thought....

I will get back in a day or so.

Carumba! I must have gotten some bad Mexican onions the other day, or maybe one of those suspected illegal aliens working in the fast food joints I frequent hadn't bothered to wash his hands after using the toilet (again), and infected me with something. Anyway, as I was lying in bed I thought I heard small voices from the walls of my house. "We're just here to work," said one tiny voice. "We're just looking for a better life for our families," said another.

I got out of bed and turned the lights on. I went to the wall where I thought I heard the voices and saw a bunch of termites eating the wood of my house. Good grief!

Now, in truth, the termites were just doing what termites do. They were just working for their families. Termites are apparently very family oriented. They are not evil or wrong in any sort of cosmic sense, but what they naturally do just happens to be harmful to me. Good for them is bad for me. Einstein got it right, it's all relative. Either I, as the kind compassionate person I am, let them destroy my house, which would be good for them, or I get rid of them, which would be good for me.

Well, to make a long story short, I got rid of the termites, but not before some politicians wanted to give them driver's licenses, free medical care and a free education in the hope of getting their votes. And, of course, I heard the usual gonadless numbnuts sniffing that I was a speciesist and a hater. "Yeah, I've got your species right here, numbnuts!"

Now I have another problem. Yesterday, I heard even smaller voices saying the same things as the termites. "We just want to have better lives for ourselves and our children," said a multitude of tiny voices. I looked and I looked, but I couldn't find the source of the voices. Then I sneezed, and I threw up, and I felt very sick. Good grief! It was the friggin' flu virus talking to me. I probably got it from one of those criminals at the fast food joint. So, now I'm supposed to die because the flu virus wants to have a better life in my body? The hell with that. That kind of thinking might work for some of the mentally defective doe-eyed neurotics running around the U.S. who are screwing up this country but I'm not buying it. I'm not checking out without a fight.

This is my body, in my house, in my country. I don't want anything of mine invaded by those, who by their very presence, will harm these things. I wasn't put on this earth to be the passive host of anything that will harm me. And, I don't give a damn if it's termites, a virus, or illegal alien humans who are just trying to make better lives for themselves. They have no right to harm me. I don't care if they love their families. I don't care if they just want to work. I just don't care. Their intent doesn't matter a bit to me. What I'm concerned about is the effect of their presence. Yammer, yammer, of course they all want better lives for themselves and their families! So, damn what?

Pond scum wants a better life. Dung beetles want a better life. The AIDS virus wants a better life. It's nature's way to have all living things seek a better life. All living things want to be comfortable. Flat worms in a Petri dish will move to an area of the Petri dish where they feel more comfortable. Germs will move to bodies where they feel more comfortable. It never ends. Some humans don't move to other areas because they work hard and build the place where they live into a place that is comfortable. Americans have done that to the U.S. We've made our place comfortable--for us. Now, other humans who are too stupid or too lazy or too incompetent to make their own places comfortable, figure they can just walk across the border and take over all the comfort that we've built.

What the hell are we, the universal hosts for anything and everything that can crawl into our bodies, our homes and our nation? Is that our purpose in life? Is that why we exist?

I don't think so.

http://www.newnation.org/Millard/They-are-just-here-to-work.html

 

[dilloduck]

Originally posted by OCA
Too much pride for that in the Spanish culture. Dillo are you saying you would rather your family starve then to risk breaking a law if you ever got to that situation? See I believe that at least in my case I can't understand the dynamics of that type of situation, I believe when survival is at stake a whole new set of priorities take over in a human being and we can't understand that until we are faced or put into a situation like that.

The premise leaves out so many variables that it is near impossible to discuss. I'm sure jon has an agenda here and will be back to explain it to us . Sorta like fartin and leaving the room.

 

[OCA]

Originally posted by Captain_Steel
Not my Fuckin problem. You wanna blame somebody blame the Mexican Government. They either come here legally, in limited numbers, or they die in Mexico. How dare you blame your own country for their misfortune.

So Steele lets say all the illegals go, you willing to have president Kerry, and thats who you are going to get because you are going to do the most anti-american thing there is and not vote, are you willing to let him tax you up the ass for socialized healthcare to take care of all the Whites who don't have healthcare or to feed all the starving citizens of this country? I mean you claim to be a humanitarian.

I'm not, I say fuck em. I ain't for illegals but I also am not for Nazi like mass roundups and shootings either but I say if we deport illegals because we are tired of paying for them then we cut every motherfucker off of any type of public assistance in this country regardless of creed or citizenship status, that is if its not about race and if you are really serious about saving money.

 

[NewGuy]

Start a business

 

[OCA]

Originally posted by Captain_Steel
You just contradicted yourself saying that when survival is at stake, a whole new set of priorities takes over, and right before that saying there is too much pride in the spanish culture to ask for help from family or friends.

Using your own logic, they would be justified to tresspass across another countrys border and work illegally, but asking family or friends for assistance in doing it legally is out of the question, due to "too much pride in the spanish culture"

WTF?

No contradiction there. Obviously as an American we have little sense of shame, its not your fault, its a leftover product of the Vietnam hippie generation and Bill Clinton, I don't think that can be argued.

Other cultures to shame oneself in front of family or friends is the biggest stigma going, so they take the other route and go to America instead of cheapening their name. Not saying its right and i'm not saying its wrong but it is fact.

 

[Captain_Steel]

Actually, I've changed my mind about the voting thing. I will vote, but I'm just going to vote for the most conservative on my issues: immigration, affirmative action, and foriegn aid, it won't be Bush, and it won't be Kerry, it will probably be some third party asshole who noone knows about. Actually, I've never voted before for a pres. election. You can vote for anyone whos running right? Not just the 3 main choices? Anyways, that's what I will do.

 

[OCA]

Originally posted by Captain_Steel
Actually, I've changed my mind about the voting thing. I will vote, but I'm just going to vote for the most conservative on my issues: immigration, affirmative action, and foriegn aid, it won't be Bush, and it won't be Kerry, it will probably be some third party asshole who noone knows about. Actually, I've never voted before for a pres. election. You can vote for anyone whos running right? Not just the 3 main choices? Anyways, that's what I will do.

I've actually thought about voting for the Constitutional party candidate myself but decided that any vote not for Bush is a vote for Kerry and that is too ugly of a thought. But hey you gotta do what you gotta do right?

Sorry New Guy, I just can't do it

 

[Avatar4321]

What would I do? I would find a way to make money where I was. I dont care how bad the economy is there is always a way to make money if you are creative.

 

[musicman]

Ah, now we come to the heart of the matter of "situation ethics". Right is right, and it's always right. The same with wrong. That said, though, I'm sure we'd all agree that, given desperate enough circumstances, we'd feed our families by hook or by crook - by any means necessary.

So, if my situation were desperate, and I thought I had an even shot at succeeding, I'd take my family over the mountain. But, this is where "situation ethics" comes in. Does the fact that I chose to enter this country illegally, irrespective of my equally desperate countrymen, who nonetheless endured hardship and sacrifice to do it the right way, then cease to be a wrong? If I can ascribe a noble motive to my crime, does it cease to be a crime? Should I be able to expect amnesty? And, if(or,when) I get it, What should I say to my long-suffering, law abiding countrymen - "Sucker!" ?

 

[OCA]

Originally posted by musicman
Ah, now we come to the heart of the matter of "situation ethics". Right is right, and it's always right. The same with wrong. That said, though, I'm sure we'd all agree that, given desperate enough circumstances, we'd feed our families by hook or by crook - by any means necessary.

So, if my situation were desperate, and I thought I had an even shot at succeeding, I'd take my family over the mountain. But, this is where "situation ethics" comes in. Does the fact that I chose to enter this country illegally, irrespective of my equally desperate countrymen, who nonetheless endured hardship and sacrifice to do it the right way, then cease to be a wrong? If I can ascribe a noble motive to my crime, does it cease to be a crime? Should I be able to expect amnesty? And, if(or,when) I get it, What should I say to my long-suffering, law abiding countrymen - "Sucker!" ?

I'm a lover and admirer of the big NYC mafia families, hard for me to comment on the making it and then feeling shame because of the route.