Zone1 What are Your Deepest Confusions About God?

[Meriweather]

Two of my hobbies are water coloring painting and gardening, which makes me a creator. As the creator, I do not live inside my watercolors, or inside my garden. I do not depend on either color or garden soil to exist. The painting cannot move itself off the wall then back on again; no plant in my garden can walk out of it, go for a stroll, then return. Their existence is inside the creation; My existence is outside the creation.

Another point about creators and their creations. The creator does not compete with anything within his/her creation. For example, I don’t compete with cucumbers or dahlias; nor do I compete with a painted rock or waterfall.

God’s creation is the universe, and like all other creators, the Creator lives/exists outside His creation. He does not compete with it.

So falls the atheist straw man that those who do not believe in Zeus are atheists, too. No, because, you see, Zeus does not meet the definition of God as a being who lives outside this world.



Catholic Bishop Barron notes that people have deep confusions about God, and perhaps we have not taught about God as well as we should.

 

[rightwinger]

So falls the atheist straw man that those who do not believe in Zeus are atheists, too. No, because, you see, Zeus does not meet the definition of God as a being who lives outside this world.

Zeus is just as probable as your God
He is just not as popular now

 

[Meriweather]

Zeus is just as probable as your God

How so? They are demonstrably two very different beings.

 

[rightwinger]

How so? They are demonstrably two very different beings.

How would you know?

 

[Meriweather]

How would you know?

Grin. I read both the Bible and Greek Mythology. According to Greek mythology, what did Zeus create? According to the Bible, what did God create? We can go on with The Flying Spaghetti Monster, who was created by Bob Henderson. Does Bob Henderson exist apart from The Flying Spaghetti Monster?

 

[Foxfyre]

Two of my hobbies are water coloring painting and gardening, which makes me a creator. As the creator, I do not live inside my watercolors, or inside my garden. I do not depend on either color or garden soil to exist. The painting cannot move itself off the wall then back on again; no plant in my garden can walk out of it, go for a stroll, then return. Their existence is inside the creation; My existence is outside the creation.

Another point about creators and their creations. The creator does not compete with anything within his/her creation. For example, I don’t compete with cucumbers or dahlias; nor do I compete with a painted rock or waterfall.

God’s creation is the universe, and like all other creators, the Creator lives/exists outside His creation. He does not compete with it.

So falls the atheist straw man that those who do not believe in Zeus are atheists, too. No, because, you see, Zeus does not meet the definition of God as a being who lives outside this world.



Catholic Bishop Barron notes that people have deep confusions about God, and perhaps we have not taught about God as well as we should.

I wonder why some prayers are so profoundly answered while it feels like God doesn't care or has no interest in others that are so important to me or those involved? That isn't confusion though. It just asks why and so far there has been no answer.

I believe God is or created all that exists because I have been given absolutely no reason to doubt that. But I do not presume to know what God is or is not. I know God exists and I feel God as an entity of love. I long ago gave up presuming to pretend I know anything certain more than that.

 

[Meriweather]

I wonder why some prayers are so profoundly answered while it feels like God doesn't care or has no interest in others that are so important to me or those involved? That isn't confusion though. It just asks why and so far there has been no answer.

Why isn't God answering my prayer was attended by over four years of true bewilderment. One day, everything fell into place, the prayer answered along with the realization that God had immediately begun working on my prayer request and continued His work for over four years. In hindsight (and only in hindsight) I could see each step being crafted. Another 'after-the-fact lesson' I learned was my own expectation was for God to act like a Genii--a blink of the Godly eye and prayer answered. After that I learned to look for what I call 'God's fingerprints' while waiting for me to recognize how God is at working answering.

Don't get me wrong...there is much about prayer we don't understand, beginning with, What is a proper prayer. Still, patience is a key ingredient, remembering to God a day is a thousand years; a thousand years, a day.

Another point to reflect with each prayer: In this situation, is God's grace sufficient? Back in the day, St. Paul gained this understanding himself.

 

[luiza]

God’s creation is the universe,

That's where you go wrong .
Your assertion is garbage .

,The Universe is primal ( Consciousness).

It ( which you mistakenly personalise ) created the Matterium from itself
Probably wanting Novelty, but the motivation is secondary to this thread .

"Your" narrative ( puts it the wrong way round) and is the brilliant way of making the Sheeple relate to an entity who controls them .
Hence Cult Religions which will disaopear as humans are enlightened to the Kali Yuga .

Do some research and move on and up , trapped Cultist .
Maybe next time around if you are too inflexible in this life .

 

[Meriweather]

That's where you go wrong .
Your assertion is garbage .

,The Universe is primal ( Consciousness).

It ( which you mistakenly personalise ) created the Matterium from itself
Probably wanting Novelty, but the motivation is secondary to this thread .

"Your" narrative ( puts it the wrong way round) and is the brilliant way of making the Sheeple relate to an entity who controls them .
Hence Cult Religions which will disaopear as humans are enlightened to the Kali Yuga .

Do some research and move on and up , trapped Cultist .
Maybe next time around if you are too inflexible in this life .

Except...I did not personalize the created Matterium, any more than I personalized my garden or watercolor analogies. Far from it. Further, it appears only in your own mind that God controls. Take Moses and the Burning Bush as an example. The bush was in flames, but it did not burn away.

I am not the one trapped. If you see a trap, you might want to look to see if it is you who are ensnared. You are invited to tell us more about the Kali Yuga. We're listening.

 

[sparky]

We're listening.

really?

doubtful you'd want to hear a recovering catholics take Meri.......~S~

 

[Meriweather]

really?

doubtful you'd want to hear a recovering catholics take Meri.......~S~

Of course I am interested in and also welcome the views of recovering Catholics. I am especially interested in views and perspectives that differ from mine.

 

[luiza]

Except...I did not personalize the created Matterium, any more than I personalized my garden or watercolor analogies. Far from it. Further, it appears only in your own mind that God controls. Take Moses and the Burning Bush as an example. The bush was in flames, but it did not burn away.

I am not the one trapped. If you see a trap, you might want to look to see if it is you who are ensnared. You are invited to tell us more about the Kali Yuga. We're listening.

A standard Cultist reaction -- it seems you will have to wait a life or two .
You have failed to understand the enormous difference ---- perhaps I explained it poorly .

Go read the books of wisdom written thousands of years before cult Christian scriptures .
See where the deliberate lies have been inserted along with mistranslations .

 

[Meriweather]

Go read the books of wisdom written

I've read many. Perhaps you can summarize one that affected you most.

 

[MarathonMike]

God’s creation is the universe, and like all other creators, the Creator lives/exists outside His creation. He does not compete with it.

'Compete' seems an odd term to use here. "Control" would be more correct for the Pre-Determinists. "Intervene" is another God concept that is separate from Pre-Determinism but seems fundamental in Christian religion. All of Christian prayer is based on the belief that God will intervene if he chooses to "answer" the prayer. Am I wrong?

 

[Meriweather]

'Compete' seems an odd term to use here. "Control" would be more correct for the Pre-Determinists. "Intervene" is another God concept that is separate from Pre-Determinism but seems fundamental in Christian religion. All of Christian prayer is based on the belief that God will intervene if he chooses to "answer" the prayer. Am I wrong?

That is a great question and a tough one with no easy answers. One point to address is whether or not the intervention is a force of anyone's will. For example I see that someone I don't know well has given up studying for a test (let's make it math). I go over to encourage him not to give up, and I see what he is doing wrong and why he is always having trouble. I explain what I believe is a simpler way to work the problem. He understands and begins studying and working other problems and finds the lesson easier. When he takes the test, he passes it with a good grade. Wouldn't that be a definition of 'intervention', but was it a bad--or even wrong--thing to do? I pushed myself forward without even being asked.

Are all prayers for help/assistance a call for intervention?

One event I still ponder after many years had nothing to do with prayer. By what seemed sheer coincidence I happened on my younger brother (who was obviously drunk) about to get into a car and drive off. I wrestled him to the ground to take away the keys. Definitely an intervention he did not want and did not ask for, and definitely one I forced. To this day I wonder about the odd set of events that had me just happening to meet up with my brother just then.

Most of my own prayers are requests for assistance in accomplishing something beneficial. Is someone who prays an example of someone trying to control God to get Him to control events to a desired outcome?

As I said, good question. I don't see you (or either of us) as wrong, but I do see a vast unknowing of what constitutes a good intervention. It seems there is such a thing as a good intervention...do you agree?

 

[BULLDOG]

This question might not fit your focus, but I always wondered why and when Paul's teachings superseded those of Jesus in the Christian religion.

 

[Cougarbear]

Two of my hobbies are water coloring painting and gardening, which makes me a creator. As the creator, I do not live inside my watercolors, or inside my garden. I do not depend on either color or garden soil to exist. The painting cannot move itself off the wall then back on again; no plant in my garden can walk out of it, go for a stroll, then return. Their existence is inside the creation; My existence is outside the creation.

Another point about creators and their creations. The creator does not compete with anything within his/her creation. For example, I don’t compete with cucumbers or dahlias; nor do I compete with a painted rock or waterfall.

God’s creation is the universe, and like all other creators, the Creator lives/exists outside His creation. He does not compete with it.

So falls the atheist straw man that those who do not believe in Zeus are atheists, too. No, because, you see, Zeus does not meet the definition of God as a being who lives outside this world.



Catholic Bishop Barron notes that people have deep confusions about God, and perhaps we have not taught about God as well as we should.

Nice try. Like your attempt at logic and reason. But, here's the problem. You and the canvas, along with the paint and brush, are all part of this world. You are not outside this world. So, you are not creating anything. You are organizing your thoughts onto the canvas with the pain and brush. You are organizing, not creating something from nothing. Aside from that, your analogy will be surprising to you. See, the same with God. God was given the opportunity to organize this universe and did so based on the past experience he had with the universe he came from. So, like you, took the materials and organized (created) a masterpiece of the universe. First spiritually then physically. The paired particles that Ding keeps yapping about were with God from His Celestial Kingdom (Kolob).

 

[d0gbreath]

Two of my hobbies are water coloring painting and gardening, which makes me a creator. As the creator, I do not live inside my watercolors, or inside my garden. I do not depend on either color or garden soil to exist. The painting cannot move itself off the wall then back on again; no plant in my garden can walk out of it, go for a stroll, then return. Their existence is inside the creation; My existence is outside the creation.

Another point about creators and their creations. The creator does not compete with anything within his/her creation. For example, I don’t compete with cucumbers or dahlias; nor do I compete with a painted rock or waterfall.

God’s creation is the universe, and like all other creators, the Creator lives/exists outside His creation. He does not compete with it.

So falls the atheist straw man that those who do not believe in Zeus are atheists, too. No, because, you see, Zeus does not meet the definition of God as a being who lives outside this world.



Catholic Bishop Barron notes that people have deep confusions about God, and perhaps we have not taught about God as well as we should.

The philosopher Ibn Cenna explained the existence of God algebraically. It's pretty much what you've stated. That the creator of the set couldn't possibly be one of the elements.

 

[Cougarbear]

The philosopher Ibn Cenna explained the existence of God algebraically. It's pretty much what you've stated. That the creator of the set couldn't possibly be one of the elements.

Why? You the artist and the paint, brush and canvas are all in this world touching each other. Thus, you are dust of the earth and so is the canvas, paint and brush. Just light them and yourself on fire and see. Thus, God is also a glorified resurrected man of elements that exist in the universe.

 

[d0gbreath]

Why? You the artist and the paint, brush and canvas are all in this world touching each other. Thus, you are dust of the earth and so is the canvas, paint and brush. Just light them and yourself on fire and see. Thus, God is also a glorified resurrected man of elements that exist in the universe.

I'm thinking lyrics. Have you ever thought about that?