What Are the US Goals In Ukraine?

[eagle1462010]

U.S./U.K./Ukraine Press Statement on the Budapest Memorandum Meeting

This statement is as close as you are going to get Rabbi.

OK, THAT is what I was looking for. Thank you. Yes, those are the stated goals of this adminsitration, to restore Ukraine's territorial integrity.

But you had to look in a state dept press release to find it. Why isn't Obama mentioning this in every speech he gives on the topic?

I don't know, but when you are having a major policy discussion with another Foreign power it is usually hammered out in the dark.

 

[The Rabbi]

U.S./U.K./Ukraine Press Statement on the Budapest Memorandum Meeting

This statement is as close as you are going to get Rabbi.

OK, THAT is what I was looking for. Thank you. Yes, those are the stated goals of this adminsitration, to restore Ukraine's territorial integrity.

But you had to look in a state dept press release to find it. Why isn't Obama mentioning this in every speech he gives on the topic?

I don't know, but when you are having a major policy discussion with another Foreign power it is usually hammered out in the dark.

The particular steps and promises in that direction are. Maybe they'll promise Putin a billion dollars. Maybe they'll promise him free rein somewhere else. We dont know and probably wont. This administration loves secrets.
But if you dont pound publicly every day to say "these are our goals and this is what we will achieve" then you wont achieve anything. You'll just flail around making noise without accomplishing much. Which is what I expect them to do.

 

[jon_berzerk]

U.S./U.K./Ukraine Press Statement on the Budapest Memorandum Meeting

This statement is as close as you are going to get Rabbi.

OK, THAT is what I was looking for. Thank you. Yes, those are the stated goals of this adminsitration, to restore Ukraine's territorial integrity.

But you had to look in a state dept press release to find it. Why isn't Obama mentioning this in every speech he gives on the topic?

because he knows that is not going to happen

 

[Redfish]

We should tell Putin that we will stop the push to add Ukraine to NATO if he will stop the push to add them to Russia.

the problem is that neither Putin or any other world leader trusts obama.

conflicts arise when leaders are weak and/or inept. obama is both

 

[eagle1462010]

The people of Ukraine are now poker chips in a high stakes poker hand. Our pawn in a chess match.

They aren't really being considered in the overall deal. It's a deal about economic policies and power grabs.

Just a thought on it.

 

[Camp]

We should tell Putin that we will stop the push to add Ukraine to NATO if he will stop the push to add them to Russia.

the problem is that neither Putin or any other world leader trusts obama.

conflicts arise when leaders are weak and/or inept. obama is both

The Soviets already have a "Federation" of non Russian counties in their control. Why should we allow them to rebuild the old Soviet Union with countries of the old Soviet Union? Countries enter a military agreement when they enter NATO, they don't become part of a Mother County and give up their sovereignty. Sounds like what happened leading up to WWII, countries making deals about the rights of other countries. We won't give support to a country if the belligerent country agrees (promises) not to change their mind and find an excuse to attack the country that got sold out during the negotiations.

 

[Katzndogz]

We should have stayed out Ukraine and let them have their little civil war while we also recognize that Russia will never give up the warm water port in Crimea. It's just not going to happen. What Putin knows that the US does not, is that the port in Crimea is so important they will go to war to protect it and neither the US nor the EU is willing to do that.

 

[Redfish]

We should tell Putin that we will stop the push to add Ukraine to NATO if he will stop the push to add them to Russia.

the problem is that neither Putin or any other world leader trusts obama.

conflicts arise when leaders are weak and/or inept. obama is both

The Soviets already have a "Federation" of non Russian counties in their control. Why should we allow them to rebuild the old Soviet Union with countries of the old Soviet Union? Countries enter a military agreement when they enter NATO, they don't become part of a Mother County and give up their sovereignty. Sounds like what happened leading up to WWII, countries making deals about the rights of other countries. We won't give support to a country if the belligerent country agrees (promises) not to change their mind and find an excuse to attack the country that got sold out during the negotiations.

the old soviet union fell apart because it became too big to manage and control. why not let them do it again? there is no US national interest in keeping Ukraine separate from Russia--------------in short, its none of our fricken business.

 

[freedombecki]

They just announced on tv that Putin is not going to back down. His foundation is the Russians who live there deserve his protection.

Do we have as many Americans there who are at risk?

Our State Department recently issued the following Travel Warning to the Ukraine:

Ukraine Travel Warning

Last Updated: March 7, 2014
The Department of State warns U.S. citizens to defer all non-essential travel to Ukraine, and particularly the Crimean Peninsula, due to the potential for instability following the departure of former President Yanukovych, the establishment of a new government, and the movement of Russian troops in Crimea. Groups have staged protests, set up roadblocks, and occupied government buildings in several cities throughout Ukraine since November 2013. All U.S. citizens in Ukraine, and those considering travel to Ukraine, should evaluate their personal security situation in light of political instability and the possibility of violence. This supersedes the Travel Warning for Ukraine dated February 28, 2014, to provide updated information regarding the return of dependent family members of U.S. government personnel. Ukraine Travel Warning

 

[Camp]

We should tell Putin that we will stop the push to add Ukraine to NATO if he will stop the push to add them to Russia.

the problem is that neither Putin or any other world leader trusts obama.

conflicts arise when leaders are weak and/or inept. obama is both

The Soviets already have a "Federation" of non Russian counties in their control. Why should we allow them to rebuild the old Soviet Union with countries of the old Soviet Union? Countries enter a military agreement when they enter NATO, they don't become part of a Mother County and give up their sovereignty. Sounds like what happened leading up to WWII, countries making deals about the rights of other countries. We won't give support to a country if the belligerent country agrees (promises) not to change their mind and find an excuse to attack the country that got sold out during the negotiations.

the old soviet union fell apart because it became too big to manage and control. why not let them do it again? there is no US national interest in keeping Ukraine separate from Russia--------------in short, its none of our fricken business.

Those are opinions. Some my think they are short sighted or naive.

 

[The Rabbi]

We should tell Putin that we will stop the push to add Ukraine to NATO if he will stop the push to add them to Russia.

the problem is that neither Putin or any other world leader trusts obama.

conflicts arise when leaders are weak and/or inept. obama is both

The Soviets already have a "Federation" of non Russian counties in their control. Why should we allow them to rebuild the old Soviet Union with countries of the old Soviet Union? Countries enter a military agreement when they enter NATO, they don't become part of a Mother County and give up their sovereignty. Sounds like what happened leading up to WWII, countries making deals about the rights of other countries. We won't give support to a country if the belligerent country agrees (promises) not to change their mind and find an excuse to attack the country that got sold out during the negotiations.

There are no "Soviets".

You can apologize now that someone else has done the heavy work for you and found the stated goals of this administration.

 

[Contumacious]

This is actually a serious question. Based on statements by the administration, what are our stated goals in dealing with the Russians on the Ukraine issue?

I ask because I havent heard one yet. And if the administration cannot articulate its goals, it cannot achieve them.

Goals:

1- Allow the war profiteers to rake in gazillions probably bazillions of dollars

2- speed up the process of collapsing the US economy

3- create more pretexts for TSA to harass Americans at the Airports

4- allow the warmongers to come in their pants when they see more caskets coming in to Dover AFB

.

 

[georgephillip]

U.S./U.K./Ukraine Press Statement on the Budapest Memorandum Meeting

This statement is as close as you are going to get Rabbi.

"The Budapest Memorandum sets out the obligations of signatories in return for Ukraine giving up its nuclear weapons. Under its terms, the three parties commit to refrain from the threat or use of force against Ukraine’s territorial integrity."

Both sides can argue the other have violated the prohibition against the use of force against Ukraine's territorial integrity.

When Neo-Nazi snipers brought the opposition to power by murdering police officers and opposition supporters alike, it's worth asking how much of the $5 billion Victoria Nuland boasted of spending on Ukrainian "democracy" contributed to the use of force against Ukraine's territorial integrity.

U.S./U.K./Ukraine Press Statement on the Budapest Memorandum Meeting

 

[tinydancer]

U.S./U.K./Ukraine Press Statement on the Budapest Memorandum Meeting

This statement is as close as you are going to get Rabbi.

"The Budapest Memorandum sets out the obligations of signatories in return for Ukraine giving up its nuclear weapons. Under its terms, the three parties commit to refrain from the threat or use of force against Ukraine’s territorial integrity."

Both sides can argue the other have violated the prohibition against the use of force against Ukraine's territorial integrity.

When Neo-Nazi snipers brought the opposition to power by murdering police officers and opposition supporters alike, it's worth asking how much of the $5 billion Victoria Nuland boasted of spending on Ukrainian "democracy" contributed to the use of force against Ukraine's territorial integrity.

U.S./U.K./Ukraine Press Statement on the Budapest Memorandum Meeting

1997 between Russia and Ukraine top off . This is why it beats International law.

And yes you are right that the Banderas brought in the snipers.

 

[tinydancer]

We are so freaking wrong here. I want to sob because this is a playbook of horrid proportions.

 

[The Rabbi]

We are so freaking wrong here. I want to sob because this is a playbook of horrid proportions.

Your opinion here is quite irrelevant.

 

[Camp]

The Russian propaganda about the snipers is now being used as fact. All based on rumor and first given publicity in the Russian press.

 

[Camp]

We should tell Putin that we will stop the push to add Ukraine to NATO if he will stop the push to add them to Russia.

the problem is that neither Putin or any other world leader trusts obama.

conflicts arise when leaders are weak and/or inept. obama is both

The Soviets already have a "Federation" of non Russian counties in their control. Why should we allow them to rebuild the old Soviet Union with countries of the old Soviet Union? Countries enter a military agreement when they enter NATO, they don't become part of a Mother County and give up their sovereignty. Sounds like what happened leading up to WWII, countries making deals about the rights of other countries. We won't give support to a country if the belligerent country agrees (promises) not to change their mind and find an excuse to attack the country that got sold out during the negotiations.

There are no "Soviets".

You can apologize now that someone else has done the heavy work for you and found the stated goals of this administration.

Somebody needs to tell Vlad there are no Soviets.

If someone did some heavy work for me I should thank them. Why would I owe them an apology? I will go back a take a look and give out some thank you clicks. Happy now?

 

[Art__Allm]

No, thery ARE NOT. The only NATIVES are Crimean Tatars.

Russians have no more rights to Crimea than Ukrainians, Greeks, Jews, Germans and all others living on the peninsula.

The ONLY ones which have the REAL rights to it are Crimean Tatars.

No, the Muslim Tatars are not the native inhabitants of this peninsula, they moved there after the Ottomans conquered this territory. Previously to that this territory was under the control of the Byzantine Empire, and there were ancient Greek colonies on this territory.

Mystery of the Theodoro principality

Russians converted to the Greek version of Christianity, that is why they were eager to re-conquer the former Christian territories, they were inspired by Spanish Christians who reconquered Andalusia.


Of course Russians have more rights to this peninsula, because the Russian Tsarin, Catharine the Great (who was a German princess) managed to free this peninsula from the Muslim Occupation.

The Russian tsars were seeking the Black Sea, the bulwark of the Ottoman capital of Istanbul. Finally, after two centuries of conflict, the Russian fleet had destroyed the Ottoman navy and the Russian army had inflicted heavy defeats on the Ottoman land forces. The ensuing Treaty of Kucuk Kaynarca forced the Sublime Porte to recognize the Tatars of the Crimea as politically independent. Catherine the Great’s annexation of the Crimea in 1783 increased Russia’s power in the Black Sea area. The Crimea was the first Muslim territory to slip from the sultan’s suzerainty. The Ottoman Empire’s frontiers would gradually shrink for another two centuries, and Russia would proceed to push her frontier westwards to the Dniester.[5]

Treaty of Küçük Kaynarca - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

After that all names of former Greek colonies on this peninsula (like Sevastopol, Simpheropol etc) were restored.

Catharina settled some Ukrainians on the Crimean Peninsula, but today 90% of the population of this region are Russian speakers, and they will be given the opportunity to vote in a free referendum.

BTW, the Crimean Tatars will also have a chance to vote, and if you believe that they will vote for remaining part of the Ukraine, then you do not have any idea about the real situation on the Crimean Peninsula.

It is obvious to me that the the population of the Crimean Peninsula has the right to decide about their future, not the people in Washington, Brussels, Kiev or Moscow.

If the population of the Crimea decides to remain part of the Ukraine on 16th March, so be it.

If they decide to become part of the Russian Federation, then only immoral people can deny them their right.

 

[Decus]

No, thery ARE NOT. The only NATIVES are Crimean Tatars.

Russians have no more rights to Crimea than Ukrainians, Greeks, Jews, Germans and all others living on the peninsula.

The ONLY ones which have the REAL rights to it are Crimean Tatars.

No, the Muslim Tatars are not the native inhabitants of this peninsula, they moved there after the Ottomans conquered this territory. Previously to that this territory was under the control of the Byzantine Empire, and there were ancient Greek colonies on this territory.

Mystery of the Theodoro principality

Russians converted to the Greek version of Christianity, that is why they were eager to re-conquer the former Christian territories, they were inspired by Spanish Christians who reconquered Andalusia.


Of course Russians have more rights to this peninsula, because the Russian Tsarin, Catharine the Great (who was a German princess) managed to free this peninsula from the Muslim Occupation.

The Russian tsars were seeking the Black Sea, the bulwark of the Ottoman capital of Istanbul. Finally, after two centuries of conflict, the Russian fleet had destroyed the Ottoman navy and the Russian army had inflicted heavy defeats on the Ottoman land forces. The ensuing Treaty of Kucuk Kaynarca forced the Sublime Porte to recognize the Tatars of the Crimea as politically independent. Catherine the Great’s annexation of the Crimea in 1783 increased Russia’s power in the Black Sea area. The Crimea was the first Muslim territory to slip from the sultan’s suzerainty. The Ottoman Empire’s frontiers would gradually shrink for another two centuries, and Russia would proceed to push her frontier westwards to the Dniester.[5]

Treaty of Küçük Kaynarca - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

After that all names of former Greek colonies on this peninsula (like Sevastopol, Simpheropol etc) were restored.

Catharina settled some Ukrainians on the Crimean Peninsula, but today 90% of the population of this region are Russian speakers, and they will be given the opportunity to vote in a free referendum.

BTW, the Crimean Tatars will also have a chance to vote, and if you believe that they will vote for remaining part of the Ukraine, then you do not have any idea about the real situation on the Crimean Peninsula.

It is obvious to me that the the population of the Crimean Peninsula has the right to decide about their future, not the people in Washington, Brussels, Kiev or Moscow.

If the population of the Crimea decides to remain part of the Ukraine on 16th March, so be it.

If they decide to become part of the Russian Federation, then only immoral people can deny them their right.

Nothing for you to worry about - the fix is in. A pro-Russian thug has appointed himself (too funny) as prime minister of the Crimean government. The vote count won't be a problem either - they'll make something up but the outcome is assured.

"SIMFEROPOL, Ukraine (AP) — Two weeks ago, Sergey Aksyonov was a small-time Crimean politician, the leader of a tiny pro-Russia political party that could barely summon 4 percent of the votes in the last regional election. He was a little-known businessman with a murky past and a nickname — "Goblin" — left over from the days when criminal gangs flourished here after the collapse of the Soviet Union."

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/crimeas-leader-man-murky-past-22836771

Love that Russian democracy.

.