What are the differences between libertarians and conservatives?

[Dr.Drock]

conservatives don't want federal government to be a nanny state, but have no issue when a state becomes one. See abortion, drugs, gay marriage.

Conservatives in general say they are for small government but their actions always contradict their words

Bingo

Even people who call themselves conservative would never put the conservative tag on McCain or Romney or Gingrich, the 3 people they've been propping up the most the last 4 years.

Libertarians vote for small gov't fiscal conservatives, such as Paul.

Neocons want their version of big gov't, liberals want their version of big gov't, libertarians oppose both idealogies equally.

 

[Contumacious]

The result of Chaos and Anarchy. Sticking your head in the sand in the end will result in the same Totalitarianism, our Opponents are heading for. Individual Liberty feeds Freedom. Authority, uncontrolled feeds absolutism, inevitably. The snowball rolling down hill syndrome must be addressed, not ignored.

I see, so in order to "prevent" anarchy and protecting freedom the conservatives believe in creating a gargantuan tyrannical police state which ignores individual rights .

That my friend is the definition of Orwellian doubletalk.

.

No. Not me. I'm thinking Assertive, not Aggressive. We distinguish between Right and Wrong,

Really?

The Constitution allows individuals to pursue happiness - it doesn't purport to define "right or wrong"

It being understood that individuals have a right to life,liberty and property that so long as your actions do not transgress those rights then you are in the clear.

Ignoring Problems does little to rectify and maintain balance, be it World Affairs or Drug Addiction, we can do more than stand by.

Again, the Constitution does not authorize Uncle Sam to "rectify and maintain a balance" in world affairs or "drug" addiction.

That is pure right wing fascism.

.

 

[Foxfyre]

I see, so in order to "prevent" anarchy and protecting freedom the conservatives believe in creating a gargantuan tyrannical police state which ignores individual rights .

That my friend is the definition of Orwellian doubletalk.

.

No. Not me. I'm thinking Assertive, not Aggressive. We distinguish between Right and Wrong,

Really?

The Constitution allows individuals to pursue happiness - it doesn't purport to define "right or wrong"

It being understood that individuals have a right to life,liberty and property that so long as your actions do not transgress those rights then you are in the clear.

Ignoring Problems does little to rectify and maintain balance, be it World Affairs or Drug Addiction, we can do more than stand by.

Again, the Constitution does not authorize Uncle Sam to "rectify and maintain a balance" in world affairs or "drug" addiction.

That is pure right wing fascism.

.

If it is right wing fascism, then it is also leftwing fascism as most entries into most wars we have fought, and escalation of the same, have been ordered by people who would not define themselves as rightwing. Do you consider the current occupant of the White House to be right wing? Consider his policies and initiatives regarding the use of the military and combat.

Perhaps, on second thought, you might wish to revise and amend your remarks lest you appear rather blindly partisan and without a clue?

As I have not previously seen you as blindly partisan or without a clue, I would hope you would reconsider. Sometimes the absence of war is far worse than war and that would justify war. War fought with no clear objective and no will to demand unconditional surrender of one's opponent is not fascist, but in my mind is inherently stupid and unconscionable. And I'm about as rightwing as it gets.

The federal government does have a role in regulating what sorts of drugs and every other product that enters the country as the states have no reasonable or legal means for doing that. I agree that dictating how drugs will be used is not the prerogative of the fefderal government, however, but IS the prerogaive of the states and local communities.

And if Catholics do not want to cover abortions and contraceptives with insurance, however anybody feels about abortion and contraception, that should be their call. The President nor Congress should have no say in that whatsoever.

 

[g5000]

I found an online quiz that said I was a libertarian

I've seen that quiz. It's a ridiculous piece of work to convince Libertarians that they are greater in number than they really are.

It asks questions which most people would agree with, and then claims that only Libertarians believe those things.

The questions aren't exactly like the examples I am about to give, but their illogic is identical.

"Do you believe the sky is blue?"

"Do you believe 1 + 1 = 2?"

"Do you believe a bullet to the head would really suck?"

"If you answered YES to at least TWO of these questions, congratulations! You are a Libertarian!"

 

[Dr.Drock]

I found an online quiz that said I was a libertarian

I've seen that quiz. It's a ridiculous piece of work to convince Libertarians that they are greater in number than they really are.

It asks questions which most people would agree with, and then claims that only Libertarians believe those things.

The questions aren't exactly like the examples I am about to give, but their illogic is identical.

"Do you believe the sky is blue?"

"Do you believe 1 + 1 = 2?"

"Do you believe a bullet to the head would really suck?"

"If you answered YES to at least TWO of these questions, congratulations! You are a Libertarian!"

Good post, all it really takes to be a libertarian is common sense.

The problem is partisanship always trumps common sense.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

It's a loaded question.

There are a few types of "conservatives". We have social conservatives, fiscal conservatives, constitutional conservatives.

Not all libertarians subscribe to the same belief patterns either.

Can you nail the question down a little better? I'm not going to write a dissertation on the different conservatives adn libertarians to try and find the differences.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

It's a loaded question.

There are a few types of "conservatives". We have social conservatives, fiscal conservatives, constitutional conservatives.

Not all libertarians subscribe to the same belief patterns either.

Can you nail the question down a little better? I'm not going to write a dissertation on the different conservatives adn libertarians to try and find the differences.

That is one of the most truthful descriptions of the situation I've seen.

You really can't put people into neat little boxes.

 

[g5000]

I found an online quiz that said I was a libertarian

I've seen that quiz. It's a ridiculous piece of work to convince Libertarians that they are greater in number than they really are.

It asks questions which most people would agree with, and then claims that only Libertarians believe those things.

The questions aren't exactly like the examples I am about to give, but their illogic is identical.

"Do you believe the sky is blue?"

"Do you believe 1 + 1 = 2?"

"Do you believe a bullet to the head would really suck?"

"If you answered YES to at least TWO of these questions, congratulations! You are a Libertarian!"

Good post, all it really takes to be a libertarian is common sense.

The problem is partisanship always trumps common sense.

Then you must not be a Libertarian because you don't have common sense.

What you have in the LP test is a fallacy of the undistributed middle:

1. All Libertarians believe the sky is blue.

2. Joe believes the sky is blue.

3. Joe is a Libertarian.

 

[Dr.Drock]

I've seen that quiz. It's a ridiculous piece of work to convince Libertarians that they are greater in number than they really are.

It asks questions which most people would agree with, and then claims that only Libertarians believe those things.

The questions aren't exactly like the examples I am about to give, but their illogic is identical.

"Do you believe the sky is blue?"

"Do you believe 1 + 1 = 2?"

"Do you believe a bullet to the head would really suck?"

"If you answered YES to at least TWO of these questions, congratulations! You are a Libertarian!"

Good post, all it really takes to be a libertarian is common sense.

The problem is partisanship always trumps common sense.

Then you must not be a Libertarian because you don't have common sense.

What you have in the LP test is a fallacy of the undistributed middle:

1. All Libertarians believe the sky is blue.

2. Joe believes the sky is blue.

3. Joe is a Libertarian.

Do you have a link to the quiz?

If not it's ok, I'd just have to see it before i judged it.

 

[kwc57]

Conservatives believe in the rule of law, with that law being based on the Constitution.

Libertarians think that the answer to any problem is there should be no law. Hence Ron Paul's fantasy world on how things should work.

It's as simple as that.

You need to get out of the basement a little more often. Just sayin'.

 

[Foxfyre]

It's a loaded question.

There are a few types of "conservatives". We have social conservatives, fiscal conservatives, constitutional conservatives.

Not all libertarians subscribe to the same belief patterns either.

Can you nail the question down a little better? I'm not going to write a dissertation on the different conservatives adn libertarians to try and find the differences.

That is one of the most truthful descriptions of the situation I've seen.

You really can't put people into neat little boxes.

Each individual person, no you can't. But the modern American conservative is conservative in the same way whether we are speaking of social conservatism, fiscal conservatism, or constitutional conservatism.

What we are defining here is what conservatism is. Modern American conservatism rejects authoritarian government in any area that is not Constitutionally assigned to it. Therefore, for instance, a 'social conservative' would be one who embraces certain values, most often, traditional values and demands no interference from the federal government in forming a community or society embracing such values.

Those wanting the government to demand that certain social values be required of all are not conservatives but are rather progressives or liberals. At least in the modern vernacular. Those who do not want a community or individual society to restrict anything that does not specifically violate the rights of others are not modern American conservatives but are libertarian in their views about that.

The same concepts can be applied to fiscal policy and Constitutional issues.

And yes, any individual might be liberal on some issues, libertarian on some issues, and conservative on some issues.

Whether we are speaking of society or fiscal policy or Constitutional issues, the modern American Conservative wants the federal government to be restrained to what the Founders intended it to do and not do, via the Constitution, and that would include providing the national defense/national security, promoting the general welfare, meaning everybody equally without regard to politics or socioeconomic standing, and secure our rights and otherwise leave us alone to pursue happiness whatever that might look like to us.

The same principles apply whether we are discussing fiscal policy, social policy, or Constitutional issues.

 

[LibertyForAll]

Good post, all it really takes to be a libertarian is common sense.

The problem is partisanship always trumps common sense.

Then you must not be a Libertarian because you don't have common sense.

What you have in the LP test is a fallacy of the undistributed middle:

1. All Libertarians believe the sky is blue.

2. Joe believes the sky is blue.

3. Joe is a Libertarian.

Do you have a link to the quiz?

If not it's ok, I'd just have to see it before i judged it.

This is the one I tool that said I was libertarian:

Advocates for Self Government

This is the one I took that told me what kind I was:

What Kind of Libertarian Are You?

 

[TakeAStepBack]

It's a loaded question.

There are a few types of "conservatives". We have social conservatives, fiscal conservatives, constitutional conservatives.

Not all libertarians subscribe to the same belief patterns either.

Can you nail the question down a little better? I'm not going to write a dissertation on the different conservatives adn libertarians to try and find the differences.

That is one of the most truthful descriptions of the situation I've seen.

You really can't put people into neat little boxes.

Each individual person, no you can't. But the modern American conservative is conservative in the same way whether we are speaking of social conservatism, fiscal conservatism, or constitutional conservatism.

What we are defining here is what conservatism is. Modern American conservatism rejects authoritarian government in any area that is not Constitutionally assigned to it. Therefore, for instance, a 'social conservative' would be one who embraces certain values, most often, traditional values and demands no interference from the federal government in forming a community or society embracing such values.

Those wanting the government to demand that certain social values be required of all are not conservatives but are rather progressives or liberals. At least in the modern vernacular. Those who do not want a community or individual society to restrict anything that does not specifically violate the rights of others are not modern American conservatives but are libertarian in their views about that.

The same concepts can be applied to fiscal policy and Constitutional issues.

And yes, any individual might be liberal on some issues, libertarian on some issues, and conservative on some issues.

Whether we are speaking of society or fiscal policy or Constitutional issues, the modern American Conservative wants the federal government to be restrained to what the Founders intended it to do and not do, via the Constitution, and that would include providing the national defense/national security, promoting the general welfare, meaning everybody equally without regard to politics or socioeconomic standing, and secure our rights and otherwise leave us alone to pursue happiness whatever that might look like to us.

The same principles apply whether we are discussing fiscal policy, social policy, or Constitutional issues.

So what you're saying is, America has very, very few conservatives today. From my experience, todays conservatives aren't much different from the progressives. Either that, or they have neglected to properly identify themselves.

So, what of the conservative vs. libertarians?

 

[LibertyForAll]

I think part of the problem lies in the misconception that Republicans = Conservatives. This is not always the case. In fact I would say its rarely the case these days. The expansion of government in the last 30 years is testament to that.

 

[dblack]

So what you're saying is, America has very, very few conservatives today. From my experience, todays conservatives aren't much different from the progressives. Either that, or they have neglected to properly identify themselves.

They're stealthy ninja conservatives.

 

[Foxfyre]

I think part of the problem lies in the misconception that Republicans = Conservatives. This is not always the case. In fact I would say its rarely the case these days. The expansion of government in the last 30 years is testament to that.

Absolutely. The GOP has been every bit as guilty in expanding government beyond its Constitutional intent from Teddy Roosevelt to the current day. The only difference is the GOP tends to do it a bit more slowly and less frenetically, but there has been little conservatism included in GOP policy.

I gently disagree, however, that there are few modern American conservatives. There are far fewer than there once were, but I believe they still hold a plurality if not a majority in this country. If they don't succeed in reinstalling the more critical components of conservatism into the process very soon though, I believe we will lose conservatism for a very long time if not forever. And we will become another stagnant nation just marking time, maintaining the status quo, and offering little opportunity to its people to improve their circumstances.

And when that happens, we will all be the poorer for it.

 

[LibertyForAll]

The reason I stated it the way I did is because many people think that because they vote republican that they are conservative and will tout the republican platform as proof when it is in many ways the antithesis of conservatism. Using government to engage in social engineering is the farthest thing from the conservative ideal.