What A Hit

[toobfreak]

I see him targeting him with a forearm to the head.

The mind sees what it expects to see. In the slo-mo, they cover, what--- about 10 feet? At the speed the defender was moving and these players impacted, that was about 1/6th second in real time. The blink of an eye.

In the time it takes to plan and raise one's arm, there was no time to target anything, just position yourself for how you thought and best hoped things would end up a split second later.

And the way it went was he hit the runner in the clavicle region (probably be the runner slid so low) whose arm then slid up into the face-mask as the runner slid under him and they came together.

If the QB wants to play RB, next time he should learn to slide sooner. Welcome to pro football. It gets rough out there.

 

[Couchpotato]

The NFL has become a game for pussies.

So why are you commenting on it?

 

[Concerned American]

The mind sees what it expects to see. In the slo-mo, they cover, what--- about 10 feet? At the speed the defender was moving and these players impacted, that was about 1/6th second in real time. The blink of an eye.

In the time it takes to plan and raise one's arm, there was no time to target anything, just position yourself for how you thought and best hoped things would end up a split second later.

And the way it went was he hit the runner in the clavicle region (probably be the runner slid so low) whose arm then slid up into the face-mask as the runner slid under him and they came together.

If the QB wants to play RB, next time he should learn to slide sooner. Welcome to pro football. It gets rough out there.

You play big boy games, you should be ready to take big boy pains.

 

[Concerned American]

So why are you commenting on it?

Because I got to witness games when the NFL was enjoyable to watch. With the stupid rule changes it has become not so much. I mean, look at the ridiculous waste of time they call a "kick off" these days. Why bother? Just give them the ball on the 30 yard line. Better yet, just assign a final score--with the games often times decided by a bad call---depending on who you're rooting for--by the officials, it has become a joke. IMHO. That's why.

 

[SaxonJackson]

Nasty hits have been taking place since the inception of football. The hit may or may not have been politically motivated. Hard to say. Could be that the black dude is just an asshole.

I'm a Christian who's opposed to all terrorist groups, whether it be Zionists or Hamas or the CIA or Mossad or Al-Qaeda. I'm opposed to all of them, but that doesn't mean I'd perform a cheap shot in a football game.

The dude was ejected, as was the proper action to take in this case.

 

[eagle1462010]

It was a dirty hit. Cheap shot.

It will be avenged on the field down the road. He better have AFLAC

 

[DukeU]

The NFL has become a game for pussies.

 

[DukeU]

That is the point--- the current rules suck. It is all intended to protect a team's INVESTMENT because all the NFL cares about is stars not getting hurt so that people will tune in to watch them maximizing advertising revenue. Would as many people watch a Chiefs game if Mahomes were hurt? Every week I see players draw penalties despite playing WITHIN the rules because the rules are so strict now that often, refs call penalties when no penalty occurred just to be on the safe side.

Just the other week, I saw a superb kick block called back for penalty then later admitted no penalty should have been called. Just today I saw a TD stopped in mid play a second before he crossed into the end zone because the refs feared a player might get roughed up in the scrum so blew the play dead right before he crossed the end zone. It has gotten to now games are being decided on bad calls and rogue penalties every week--- the refs have become a third team.

It is smart to protect your investments, but I do agree the refs make terrible calls and sometimes it even looks rigged with the way games are officiated.

Football was never meant to be "safe."

They wear an awful lot of protective gear....

What's that about?

I've yet to ever meet a boxer who toughened up by not taking hits.

The point of Boxing is to hit and not be hit.

I've never seen a Boxer stand still in the ring.

NFL players of the 70s like Jack Lambert and Mean Joe Green would kill the average superstar of today. You don't get tough by never taking hits. Lack of protection makes you take fewer risks and play smarter. I'm sick of all the new rules designed to make the games "safer." It is all about the money and I'm seeing more people hurt more often now than ever in 45 years of watching football because the players are not as tough as they used to be because they don't have to be--- the "rules" protect them now.

T. Lawrence injury yesterday proves that's not the case.

Even with all of the rules players still get injured. Season ending injuries.

Football is a rough sport, you have to have rules to try and protect the players, else we would be watching less talented players play.

It's funny how people will complain about the way QBs are protected, and then when it's the QB for their team and no call is made...They boo the refs.

Players used to play through contusions and teeth knocked out. Now they are taken out of the game for weeks for a hard hit.

Do you have perfect attendance at work?

 

[mudwhistle]

The mind sees what it expects to see. In the slo-mo, they cover, what--- about 10 feet? At the speed the defender was moving and these players impacted, that was about 1/6th second in real time. The blink of an eye.

In the time it takes to plan and raise one's arm, there was no time to target anything, just position yourself for how you thought and best hoped things would end up a split second later.

And the way it went was he hit the runner in the clavicle region (probably be the runner slid so low) whose arm then slid up into the face-mask as the runner slid under him and they came together.

If the QB wants to play RB, next time he should learn to slide sooner. Welcome to pro football. It gets rough out there.

Dirty players like this guy need to get a beating on the field by every team that plays him.

 

[toobfreak]

It was a dirty hit. Cheap shot.
It will be avenged on the field down the road. He better have AFLAC

That's it! Repay the dirty hit with an even cheaper shot! Brass knuckles in the gloves!

Look, I didn't see the game nor the context, just the OP's supplied short video. I can't say what was in the mind of the defender. All I can say is how it ended up, with the QB being too greedy and sliding too late trying to get every last inch figuring he was untouchable, and the defender reminding him this really is pro football and trying to stop him, and it ended badly with the QB taking a pretty good shot to the helmet that probably looked worse than it really was.

But I've seen many a helmet knocked clean off with no harm to the player who got right back up, so, my guess is that this defender will get sanctioned pretty hard for the good of the NFL's image to show they are serious about protecting the QB, thus assuring that another QB will again try to run and slide with the ball too far and get his clock cleaned too.

 

[DukeU]

Look, I didn't see the game nor the context, just the OP's supplied short video. I can't say what was in the mind of the defender. All I can say is how it ended up, with the QB being too greedy and sliding too late trying to get every last inch figuring he was untouchable, and the defender reminding him this really is pro football and trying to stop him, and it ended badly with the QB taking a pretty good shot to the helmet that probably looked worse than it really was.

How about on an out of bounds hit?

If a runner is trying to get every yard he can and steps out of bounds just before being hit should it be a penalty to hit him if his feet were out of bounds?

 

[Concerned American]

so, my guess is that this defender will get sanctioned pretty hard for the good of the NFL's image to show they are serious about protecting the QB

With a possible new rule designed to make football safer. SMH

 

[toobfreak]

The point of Boxing is to hit and not be hit.
I've never seen a Boxer stand still in the ring.

What I meant was that part of a fighter's conditioning is to take pain and blows to the body as part of his conditioning.

Even with all of the rules players still get injured. Season ending injuries.

The very reason why I said he waited too long to slide.

It's funny how people will complain about the way QBs are protected, and then when it's the QB for their team and no call is made...They boo the refs.

Human nature. Look, I'm just playing devils advocate here. I agree it was not a good hit, might have been done better and was inevitable to draw a big penalty--- all I'm saying is that the QB waited too long before sliding, probably because he figured rules protect QBs so much now that it would be safe for him to try to get a few extra yards.

The other point being is that hits like this are what made the game popular. It is what gets shown in game reels. Look at the discussion it sparked here. It is another variable in the game that teams must deal with-- players getting injured. I remember in one of John Elway's last games he tried running with the ball to score a TD in a Super Bowl and getting hit by two players as he dove for the end zone and getting spun around in the air 180° like a helicopter blade.

It is the only thing I remember from that game.

 

[Unkotare]

It's easy to sit on your ass and post about being "tough" when you're not the one getting your block knocked off by incredibly big, strong, fast athletes.

 

[toobfreak]

With a possible new rule designed to make football safer. SMH

Eventually, football will become all electronic where "tackles" are recorded electronically by just touching an opposing player's uniform.

Some day, they will replace players with some sort of robots, or maybe it will become fully synthesized by a computer on a screen.

Being masculine, aggressive, gladiatorial, hard-hitting full contact muscular testosterone male is just being made politically and socially incorrect.

Eventually, body-hair, scratching and shaving will be banned, and you will get arrested just for talking loud.

BTW, yesterday, after getting 1st down after a catch, a WR in a game pointed his fingers as he always does indicating 1st down and a referee took the gesture as making a "gun" gesture and was about to expel him from the game. Now you have to watch how you point your fingers in the NFL.

George Pickens Says Officials Got Gesture Wrong On Penalty: 'I Was Doing First Down'

Shortly after his 36-yard catch down the right sideline to set the Pittsburgh Steelers up with a 1st and 10 at the Cincinnati Bengals’ 13-yard line, wide receiver George Pickens made a gesture toward the stands. It appeared to be Pickens firing a gun, which drew an unsportsmanlike conduct...

steelersdepot.com

George Pickens Had Blunt Quote on His Costly Penalties After Win vs. Bengals

The Steelers star was a lightning rod for drama in Sunday's win over the Bengals.

www.si.com

 

[toobfreak]

Dirty players like this guy need to get a beating on the field by every team that plays him.

But what would that serve? So now you're going to justify a lot of bad hits done deliberately for one possibly accidental one?

All I'm saying MW is that this is full contact sport. Players are competitive, highly charged, aggressive athletes. A lot of money and seasons on the line. You have a guy running the ball at you, game on the line, and YOUR JOB IS TO STOP THE GUY. Now look at these pictures taken right from your video:

Lawrence is still running with the defender only 10 feet away and a split second from hitting him!
A defender can't assume the runner will just go down by getting near him as I've seen defenders
assume that then get faked out by the runner to gain more yards! Lawrence should have already
gotten down and be sliding at this point to give the defender time to SWITCH OFF his attack
mode in his brain.

Here he is only beginning to start to get down with the defender only 8 feet away and probably
only a fraction of a second from being hit. At this point, the defender is committed to hitting him
leaning in getting ready to hit. Lawrence should have already started sliding two yards back to
clearly signal his intent to stop before this point to be safe. It isn't the defender who is the issue
at this point but the QB who is risking/creating the safety issue by delaying sliding hoping he can
reach the 1st down to be the hero for his team. Look where the 1st down yellow line is. Both
players are only a step away and a split-second from reaching it. It is Lawrence who is taking the
risk and putting the defender in a bad position by waiting so long hoping to reach the 1st down
marker in time.

The two players are facing each other both running at full speed
and Lawrence hasn't even gotten down yet. He should already
be on the ground.

The defender is already right on this guy about to hit only an instant away going full speed and only now has the
QB's knee gotten down instigating the beginning of the slide!

At this point, Lawrence is purely banking on the mercy of the defender to pull off and somehow miss him.

Now, was it a dirty hit? Is the defender a dirty player? Maybe, probably. Which just makes it all the more imperative that if you are going to challenge him by running the ball, you go down early enough that you are clearly down before the defender is even within the contact zone! Why risk taking a bad hit? Look at where his knee is. His knee did not go down until within inches of the first down marker (see above). The refs might have even given him the 1st down! What I am saying is that it takes time to switch off the attack instinct drilled into a good defender, maybe a half-second and this guy didn't even start to slide until they were close enough to shake hands running full speed.

MY POINT being that while the defender will get blamed and penalized and probably could have managed the hit better, he was essentially doing his job and nothing is being said of the QB waiting too long before sliding. These safety rules have made players feel safer thus encouraging them to play right up to the instant of contact! They have forgotten what a real hit is all about. It takes two to tango and if these people really care about players, they should also set a guideline of sliding soon enough that maybe you are DOWN BEFORE a defender gets within 5 yards of you, which is still only a fraction of a second away. They might even consider fining you for not getting down soon enough and forcing the defender to hit you to MAKE you go down.

Defenders have to try not to kill people, but runners also have to not exacerbate the issue by taking advantage and not giving up soon enough hoping to get a few more feet or maybe even fake the defender out. It is HUMAN INSTINCT that by waiting until you are right on top of him, it becomes a challenge to your ability to stop the runner and only makes you want to hit him all that much harder to prove him wrong.

That is basic psychology so should be well within Roger Goodell's grasp. "Protecting" the QB encourages QBs to take greater risks. If they are going to fine and expel defenders for bad hits in critical plays, they need to also look at the other side and consider how runners encourage these hits by waiting too long before sliding.

 

[Concerned American]

But what would that serve? So now you're going to justify a lot of bad hits done deliberately for one possibly accidental one?

All I'm saying MW is that this is full contact sport. Players are competitive, highly charged, aggressive athletes. A lot of money and seasons on the line. You have a guy running the ball at you, game on the line, and YOUR JOB IS TO STOP THE GUY. Now look at these pictures taken right from your video:

View attachment 1049289
Lawrence is still running with the defender only 10 feet away and a split second from hitting him!
A defender can't assume the runner will just go down by getting near him as I've seen defenders
assume that then get faked out by the runner to gain more yards! Lawrence should have already
gotten down and be sliding at this point to give the defender time to SWITCH OFF his attack
mode in his brain.


View attachment 1049296
Here he is only beginning to start to get down with the defender only 8 feet away and probably
only a fraction of a second from being hit. At this point, the defender is committed to hitting him
leaning in getting ready to hit. Lawrence should have already started sliding two yards back to
clearly signal his intent to stop before this point to be safe. It isn't the defender who is the issue
at this point but the QB who is risking/creating the safety issue by delaying sliding hoping he can
reach the 1st down to be the hero for his team. Look where the 1st down yellow line is. Both
players are only a step away and a split-second from reaching it. It is Lawrence who is taking the
risk and putting the defender in a bad position by waiting so long hoping to reach the 1st down
marker in time.



View attachment 1049301
The two players are facing each other both running at full speed
and Lawrence hasn't even gotten down yet. He should already
be on the ground.


View attachment 1049303
The defender is already right on this guy about to hit only an instant away going full speed and only now has the
QB's knee gotten down instigating the beginning of the slide!


View attachment 1049304
At this point, Lawrence is purely banking on the mercy of the defender to pull off and somehow miss him.

Now, was it a dirty hit? Is the defender a dirty player? Maybe, probably. Which just makes it all the more imperative that if you are going to challenge him by running the ball, you go down early enough that you are clearly down before the defender is even within the contact zone! Why risk taking a bad hit? Look at where his knee is. His knee did not go down until within inches of the first down marker (see above). The refs might have even given him the 1st down! What I am saying is that it takes time to switch off the attack instinct drilled into a good defender, maybe a half-second and this guy didn't even start to slide until they were close enough to shake hands running full speed.

MY POINT being that while the defender will get blamed and penalized and probably could have managed the hit better, he was essentially doing his job and nothing is being said of the QB waiting too long before sliding. These safety rules have made players feel safer thus encouraging them to play right up to the instant of contact! They have forgotten what a real hit is all about. It takes two to tango and if these people really care about players, they should also set a guideline of sliding soon enough that maybe you are DOWN BEFORE a defender gets within 5 yards of you, which is still only a fraction of a second away. They might even consider fining you for not getting down soon enough and forcing the defender to hit you to MAKE you go down.

Defenders have to try not to kill people, but runners also have to not exacerbate the issue by taking advantage and not giving up soon enough hoping to get a few more feet or maybe even fake the defender out. It is HUMAN INSTINCT that by waiting until you are right on top of him, it becomes a challenge to your ability to stop the runner and only makes you want to hit him all that much harder to prove him wrong.

That is basic psychology so should be well within Roger Goodell's grasp. "Protecting" the QB encourages QBs to take greater risks. If they are going to fine and expel defenders for bad hits in critical plays, they need to also look at the other side and consider how runners encourage these hits by waiting too long before sliding.

The only answer in the modern NFL is to restrict the QB to the pocket where he is down with a simple touch.

 

[toobfreak]

The only answer in the modern NFL is to restrict the QB to the pocket where he is down with a simple touch.

Well, I don't know if you can do that. But you can tell people that if you run the ball trying to make 1st down to be the BMOC, you must weight the benefits against the risks because rules or not, you CAN still get hit.

The offensive player makes the decision to risk a bad hit hoping to make it to the down marker, so while it is still mostly on the defender's responsibility not to kill the guy, the offensive player must also bear a little of the responsibility, because ALL HE HAD TO DO WAS GO DOWN SOONER to avoid getting hit.

And runners make the matter worse by sometimes pretending to go down or run out of bounds so the defender lets up on them only to fake them out and take off again. I've seen that many times. So forgive me if I don't put ALL of the blame on the defender. Their job is to stop you, and their stats and salary are BASED on their success in doing so.

Rules in the NFL now are such that it is becoming often nearly impossible to defend a play anymore without risking a penalty.

 

[toobfreak]

Wow, I just dug the play up on YouTube and watched about 5 minutes of video around the Lawrence hit and I'm calling BULLSHIT. I actually just found a video of a guy calling it the DIRTIEST HIT IN FOOTBALL SINCE 2017 and that if you disagree with him, that the FBI should be called on you! Wow.

I listened to the commentators aghast at the horrible play, the ensuing fight and players ejected from the game, then I actually looked at the best video to see that:

1. It WAS NOT a hit to Lawrence's head!
2. It WAS NOT a hit his helmet!
3. It WAS NOT a hit to his jaw!
4. The defender initiated the hit at the same time Lawrence started sliding which means that it was probably too late for the defender to stop or change anything!
5. Lawrence was so OK after this terrible hit that he got up, walked around and was sitting up while carted off the field!
6. Technically, I call it an unfortunate hit but basically a CLEAN hit because what the defender actually did was to simply use his two arms to strike Lawrence in the shoulder pad! This was the cleanest, best way he had any chance of reaching and stopping Lawrence in time from getting to the 1st down. He was doing his job. This has instead all been blown up into a big DRAMA by the NFL and announcers that--- OH THE HORROR, someone actually made a real hit! Had this been a running back, it would not have been any big issue at all. Guess we know why RBs don't last as long as QBs.

The whole stink here was only because it was the quarterback. Basically what the announcers and NFL were saying is that if a QB runs with the ball and tries to get a down, and the only way to stop him is to HIT HIM, then you must LET HIM GET THE DOWN. That isn't football, that isn't sport, that is BULLSHIT. Better call the FBI on me now. Look at the proof:

Lawrence is already sliding yes, but he just got down and the defender is already committed, leading with his arms.

The moment of contact. Not a dirty hit but striking the padded shoulder area with his forearms.

Only thing wrong here is that... BOO HOO ...you hit our qwarterbwack! Yet the QB set it up by waiting so long before taking a slide.
He just HAD to get that 1st down! Stand back folks! The NFL is at odds with real football! There was real contact! Hide the children.

After the hit. You can see the two forearms struck the shoulder pad, not the chest, throat, jaw, helmet or head. The only thing the defender is really guilty of is doing his job and trying to stop the runner . Just too bad it happened to be a QB and that it timed out badly that the contact happened just as the QB was sliding. It looks bad in real time, looked deliberate and dirty, but was really just GOOD SOLID FOOTBALL. This would have been clean football and commendable playing at one time when football was still a real sport.

Another angle:

Before the hit: Lawrence just started sliding but the defender is already in the air arms out committed to the hit.

Moment of impact: the defender is above Lawrence, helmets apart, striking the shoulder pad with his forearms.
Had Lawrence not slid so low, the defender wouldn't have even been anywhere near the helmet.

After the hit: Lawrence is down and the defender's arms are still on the shoulder.

The only problem here is that it was a QB. He was a runner. He went for the 1st down challenging the defender and the
defender stopped him hard. Real football. I call that a CLEAN HIT. Maybe the defender didn't have to hit him or hit him
so hard or could have left him get the down (I think he got it anyway), but the defender followed his instincts and did
his job, and was probably a little surprised at the ensuing ruckus.

I bet Lawrence slides sooner next time.

I'll be curious now how big a penalty the NFL levies on this defender guy now in order to show they are cracking down hard on any actual contact in pro football.
Instead, they should also issue a warning and reminder to QBs that if they choose to run out of the pocket down the field with the ball, they are subject to being treated just like any other running back.

 

[mudwhistle]

But what would that serve? So now you're going to justify a lot of bad hits done deliberately for one possibly accidental one?

All I'm saying MW is that this is full contact sport. Players are competitive, highly charged, aggressive athletes. A lot of money and seasons on the line. You have a guy running the ball at you, game on the line, and YOUR JOB IS TO STOP THE GUY. Now look at these pictures taken right from your video:

View attachment 1049289
Lawrence is still running with the defender only 10 feet away and a split second from hitting him!
A defender can't assume the runner will just go down by getting near him as I've seen defenders
assume that then get faked out by the runner to gain more yards! Lawrence should have already
gotten down and be sliding at this point to give the defender time to SWITCH OFF his attack
mode in his brain.


View attachment 1049296
Here he is only beginning to start to get down with the defender only 8 feet away and probably
only a fraction of a second from being hit. At this point, the defender is committed to hitting him
leaning in getting ready to hit. Lawrence should have already started sliding two yards back to
clearly signal his intent to stop before this point to be safe. It isn't the defender who is the issue
at this point but the QB who is risking/creating the safety issue by delaying sliding hoping he can
reach the 1st down to be the hero for his team. Look where the 1st down yellow line is. Both
players are only a step away and a split-second from reaching it. It is Lawrence who is taking the
risk and putting the defender in a bad position by waiting so long hoping to reach the 1st down
marker in time.



View attachment 1049301
The two players are facing each other both running at full speed
and Lawrence hasn't even gotten down yet. He should already
be on the ground.


View attachment 1049303
The defender is already right on this guy about to hit only an instant away going full speed and only now has the
QB's knee gotten down instigating the beginning of the slide!


View attachment 1049304
At this point, Lawrence is purely banking on the mercy of the defender to pull off and somehow miss him.

Now, was it a dirty hit? Is the defender a dirty player? Maybe, probably. Which just makes it all the more imperative that if you are going to challenge him by running the ball, you go down early enough that you are clearly down before the defender is even within the contact zone! Why risk taking a bad hit? Look at where his knee is. His knee did not go down until within inches of the first down marker (see above). The refs might have even given him the 1st down! What I am saying is that it takes time to switch off the attack instinct drilled into a good defender, maybe a half-second and this guy didn't even start to slide until they were close enough to shake hands running full speed.

MY POINT being that while the defender will get blamed and penalized and probably could have managed the hit better, he was essentially doing his job and nothing is being said of the QB waiting too long before sliding. These safety rules have made players feel safer thus encouraging them to play right up to the instant of contact! They have forgotten what a real hit is all about. It takes two to tango and if these people really care about players, they should also set a guideline of sliding soon enough that maybe you are DOWN BEFORE a defender gets within 5 yards of you, which is still only a fraction of a second away. They might even consider fining you for not getting down soon enough and forcing the defender to hit you to MAKE you go down.

Defenders have to try not to kill people, but runners also have to not exacerbate the issue by taking advantage and not giving up soon enough hoping to get a few more feet or maybe even fake the defender out. It is HUMAN INSTINCT that by waiting until you are right on top of him, it becomes a challenge to your ability to stop the runner and only makes you want to hit him all that much harder to prove him wrong.

That is basic psychology so should be well within Roger Goodell's grasp. "Protecting" the QB encourages QBs to take greater risks. If they are going to fine and expel defenders for bad hits in critical plays, they need to also look at the other side and consider how runners encourage these hits by waiting too long before sliding.

Sorry, Bubba, but the point of the game is competition, not worrying about someone trying to kill you.

Philly DB Cooper DeJean shows the proper way to make a tackle in the open field.



Al-Jaaar is a cheap-shot artist. If he doesn't learn to play by the rules, he doesn't need to be playing and risking people's lives.