What A Hit

[mudwhistle]

He definitely did. He gets one mulligan. Next one it’s a year I bet

I think this crap would decrease if they kicked them out of the league for a season.

 

[toobfreak]

I am all for it but the rule as written now states when a QB begins his slide he can’t be touched.

Agreed, and that is the problem the Texans coach referred to. Al-Shaarir had already committed himself to the launch by the time Lawrence began his slide and once in the air, you are committed. If a defender waits to be sure, he will get beat out 75% of the time and QBs use this to their advantage to gain extra yards.

So by the NFL rules, Al-Shaarir is guilty of a late hit which usually then equates to a "dirty" hit, but it is the protective rules by the NFL which often as I think in this case encourage QBs to slide late which end up CAUSING these late hits.

So I am technically not disagreeing with anything here just playing devil's advocate in pointing out the defender's POV which few in the sports trade apparently have the guts to do.
These situations are more complicated than just "bad guy, dirty player," which is the view of the simplistic, PC mentality and the NFL, which I am sure will rush just to blame on the defender every time so they can pretend to be the "good cop."

All the NFL really cares about is protecting their image so as not to hurt the almighty revenue.

 

[toobfreak]

I think this crap would decrease if they kicked them out of the league for a season.

Yet many HAVE been kicked out for whole seasons going back years yet the stuff still happens obviously proving your theory blatantly wrong for all of the reasons already stated. It obviously takes a defender more time to set up and launch a defense than it does for the QB to wait until he sees the defense coming and that he is about to be hit to then start sliding, figuring he has then gotten all the yards he can get.

The defender is already committed at that point in most cases, in the air or lunging forward yet the instant the QB starts to slide in response to the incoming attack, he is instantly considered "safe."

There is your problem, let's see if you have the guts to admit it.

 

[task0778]

It does seem to me that when the QB slides he's gotta lay his head down, away from the defensive player. You can't be sliding on your butt where you're kinda sitting up and leaving your head more vulnerable to a hit. If it was me I'd be sliding on my side kinda laying down so my whole body is on the ground. I don't know why every team in the league isn't requiring that from their franchise QBs anyway; for the love of God, protect yourself from that kind of injury.

It looked to me like the defensive guy did lead with his forearm and didn't try to avoid an unnecessary blow to the head. I have not read the league's reasoning for the suspension, but my impression was that the guy could've tried to lessen the severity of the blow but didn't do that. But the QB and by extension his coaches should've protected himself better and if he misses time then it's partly his own fault IMHO.

 

[toobfreak]

It does seem to me that when the QB slides he's gotta lay his head down, away from the defensive player. You can't be sliding on your butt where you're kinda sitting up and leaving your head more vulnerable to a hit. If it was me I'd be sliding on my side kinda laying down so my whole body is on the ground. I don't know why every team in the league isn't requiring that from their franchise QBs anyway; for the love of God, protect yourself from that kind of injury.

It looked to me like the defensive guy did lead with his forearm and didn't try to avoid an unnecessary blow to the head. I have not read the league's reasoning for the suspension, but my impression was that the guy could've tried to lessen the severity of the blow but didn't do that. But the QB and by extension his coaches should've protected himself better and if he misses time then it's partly his own fault IMHO.

Agreed, Task--- BOTH parties bear some of the responsibility and blame for what happened. Defenders must defend, yet QBs play these guys for extra yards and fake them out then it is all the defender's fault? All Al-Shaarir did was to remind this guy that yes, YOU ARE A RUNNER and CAN be hit. I can see where these defenders would get tired of being played, then getting all the blame if the stop isn't all unicorns and lollipops.

 

[task0778]

Agreed, Task--- BOTH parties bear some of the responsibility and blame for what happened. Defenders must defend, yet QBs play these guys for extra yards and fake them out then it is all the defender's fault? All Al-Shaarir did was to remind this guy that yes, YOU ARE A RUNNER a CAN be hit. I can see where these defenders would get tired of being played, then getting all the blame if the stop isn't all unicorns and lollipops.

Yeah, the NFL has been pussified quite a bit from the old days, but on the other hand there are a lot of former players with brain damage from too many concussions. I remember the old days when a DL would slap the OL guy upside the head to get around him to the QB or ball carrier, it used to be fairly common I think. Nowadays there are too many would-be actors out there trying to draw a flag. Aaron Rodgers was good at that, he'd deliberately put his face mask in your hand, hoping you'd touch it and then pretend like you tried to rip his head off. On time he got the call and extended the game by one play at the end, threw a Hail Mary that won the Packers the game. What a MOFO.

 

[toobfreak]

Yeah, the NFL has been pussified quite a bit from the old days, but on the other hand there are a lot of former players with brain damage from too many concussions. I remember the old days when a DL would slap the OL guy upside the head to get around him to the QB or ball carrier, it used to be fairly common I think. Nowadays there are too many would-be actors out there trying to draw a flag. Aaron Rodgers was good at that, he'd deliberately put his face mask in your hand, hoping you'd touch it and then pretend like you tried to rip his head off. On time he got the call and extended the game by one play at the end, threw a Hail Mary that won the Packers the game. What a MOFO.

Yep, I don't know how many times players have been seen acting out hits to make them look worse than they were or to draw a flag and commentators admitting it was common practice. They twist their bodies or heads to make it look like more is going on than was.

But yeah, people get hurt out there, careers can be short, I thought that was the reason why they were offering people millions of dollars per game. You are taking a gamble. I remember several years ago, a very talented and promising defender by the name of Ryan Shazeer went in to make a tackle and ended up a cripple with a broken back. They never thought he would walk again. Fortunately, he recovered pretty much but could never play again.



But when you are pounding on people or getting hit hard, you soon separate the wheat from the chaff as to who can take it and who can't. I remember watching FB in the '70s where people were playing with bloody arms, cracked ribs, broken noses, the works, yet there was no shortage of great players and people of talent.

Terry Bradshaw signed with the Steelers as a rookie for only $25,000.
That is equal to about $200,000 now.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Agreed, and that is the problem the Texans coach referred to. Al-Shaarir had already committed himself to the launch by the time Lawrence began his slide and once in the air, you are committed. If a defender waits to be sure, he will get beat out 75% of the time and QBs use this to their advantage to gain extra yards.

So by the NFL rules, Al-Shaarir is guilty of a late hit which usually then equates to a "dirty" hit, but it is the protective rules by the NFL which often as I think in this case encourage QBs to slide late which end up CAUSING these late hits.

So I am technically not disagreeing with anything here just playing devil's advocate in pointing out the defender's POV which few in the sports trade apparently have the guts to do.
These situations are more complicated than just "bad guy, dirty player," which is the view of the simplistic, PC mentality and the NFL, which I am sure will rush just to blame on the defender every time so they can pretend to be the "good cop."

All the NFL really cares about is protecting their image so as not to hurt the almighty revenue.

So the counter is. Their QB has the same advantage.

 

[Mr. Friscus]

Coulda done without the elbow to the facemask......

Probably going to get a big fine for this one.

The NFL needs a new rule. A QB has to put his opposite throwing hand up to give himself up. That goes for sliding or running out of bounds. The moment the hand goes up the play stops, the ball placed where they did it. If they don’t put their hand up, they are fair game.

This grey area is too… grey lol

 

[toobfreak]

The NFL needs a new rule. A QB has to put his opposite throwing hand up to give himself up. That goes for sliding or running out of bounds. The moment the hand goes up the play stops, the ball placed where they did it. If they don’t put their hand up, they are fair game.

What good would that do if the QB still waits like Lawrence did to not signal either way a definite slide (or hand up) until the defender was so close it was too late for him to avoid hitting you? The reason why the hit looked so bad was because when Al-Shaair got to him, Lawrence was still vertical, upright on his knees. He started sliding so late trying to get 1st down that he wasn't even really sliding yet.

And this nutjob is the one who really ought to be suspended, suggesting the defender ought to be deported from the country and that the tackle was really driven by Palestinian hate for Jews. Wow.

 

[Mr. Friscus]

What good would that do if the QB still waits like Lawrence did to not signal either way a definite slide (or hand up) until the defender was so close it was too late for him to avoid hitting you? The reason why the hit looked so bad was because when Al-Shaair got to him, Lawrence was still vertical, upright on his knees. He started sliding so late trying to get 1st down that he wasn't even really sliding yet.

View attachment 1050052

And this nutjob is the one who really ought to be suspended, suggesting the defender ought to be deported from the country and that the tackle was really driven by Palestinian hate for Jews. Wow.

It would eliminate many (not all) issues here

 

[Concerned American]

What good would that do if the QB still waits like Lawrence did to not signal either way a definite slide (or hand up) until the defender was so close it was too late for him to avoid hitting you? The reason why the hit looked so bad was because when Al-Shaair got to him, Lawrence was still vertical, upright on his knees. He started sliding so late trying to get 1st down that he wasn't even really sliding yet.

View attachment 1050052

And this nutjob is the one who really ought to be suspended, suggesting the defender ought to be deported from the country and that the tackle was really driven by Palestinian hate for Jews. Wow.

I just read a suggestion by a hall of famer to penalize the QB for attempting to weaponize the slide/running out of bounds to gain a couple extra yards. He suggested the offense is penalized 15 yards. Hmmm. Maybe that has merit.

MSN

 

[Rocko]

The Muslim got 3 games, should have gotten suspended for the rest of the year

 

[Unkotare]

Head first instead of feet first.

 

[toobfreak]

I just read a suggestion by a hall of famer to penalize the QB for attempting to weaponize the slide/running out of bounds to gain a couple extra yards. He suggested the offense is penalized 15 yards. Hmmm. Maybe that has merit.

That parallels somewhat a suggestion I had early in this thread. While I can't say that the defender doesn't still hold most of the blame in a tackle, he cannot pull off the tackle until he knows for sure the rusher is truly giving up on the play and not just bluffing. While there are obvious, excessive hits where the player is well out of bounds or the hit is undeniably meant to injure the player in an illegal area, if a rusher does not clearly give up the play at least ten yards away to give the defender real world human time to call off or change his tackle, he should at least bear part of the blame.

Of course, how one decides this and how the penalty is adjudicated is the subject of another discussion. Maybe the penalty begins with 15 yards against the defender, and 5-10-15 yards is subtracted pending review of the rushers actions, such as late slide, fake-outs, etc.?

That way, a defender's feet are still held to the fire for bad hits, but likewise, QBs are encouraged not to slide late, get greedy or try to fake the defender. There could even be an offensive penalty for late slides, closer than ten yards, especially if they contribute to hard tackles, and a further penalty for color commentators who make idiot accusations about players 1 second after a tackle seen from a distance of 100 yards away that happened in only 0.5 seconds.

What I'm really saying is for the NFL to get real and quit pretending like every tackle is all 100% only the responsibility of the defender--- even in car crashes, the actions and positions of BOTH cars are considered.

 

[Concerned American]

That parallels somewhat a suggestion I had early in this thread. While I can't say that the defender doesn't still hold most of the blame in a tackle, he cannot pull off the tackle until he knows for sure the rusher is truly giving up on the play and not just bluffing. While there are obvious, excessive hits where the player is well out of bounds or the hit is undeniably meant to injure the player in an illegal area, if a rusher does not clearly give up the play at least ten yards away to give the defender real world human time to call off or change his tackle, he should at least bear part of the blame.

Of course, how one decides this and how the penalty is adjudicated is the subject of another discussion. Maybe the penalty begins with 15 yards against the defender, and 5-10-15 yards is subtracted pending review of the rushers actions, such as late slide, fake-outs, etc.?

That way, a defender's feet are still held to the fire for bad hits, but likewise, QBs are encouraged not to slide late, get greedy or try to fake the defender. There could even be an offensive penalty for late slides, closer than ten yards, especially if they contribute to hard tackles, and a further penalty for color commentators who make idiot accusations about players 1 second after a tackle seen from a distance of 100 yards away that happened in only 0.5 seconds.

What I'm really saying is for the NFL to get real and quit pretending like every tackle is all 100% only the responsibility of the defender--- even in car crashes, the actions and positions of BOTH cars are considered.

This all brings to mind the fact that the defenders are coached to not give up on the tackle until the play is over. Do you think that maybe Houston will pick up the fine and lost wages for Al Shaair? After all he was playing the way he was coached.

 

[Rocko]

This all brings to mind the fact that the defenders are coached to not give up on the tackle until the play is over. Do you think that maybe Houston will pick up the fine and lost wages for Al Shaair? After all he was playing the way he was coached.

Players aren’t taught to give late hits.

 

[Concerned American]

Players aren’t taught to give late hits.

It wasn't a late hit. Defenders are taught to tackle until the man is down.

 

[Rocko]

It wasn't a late hit. Defenders are taught to tackle until the man is down.

Of course it was a late hit. Why do your think he got suspended?

 

[Unkotare]

Of course it was a late hit. Why do your think he got suspended?

Some folks posting on this thread are squawking "Dos pussies!" "hit 'im!" "back in my day!" and assorted shit so they can pretend they are tough. It's sad, really.