Were Most Of America's Founding Fathers - Christians

[guno]

Thomas Jefferson:

"The Christian god is a three headed monster, cruel, vengeful, and capricious. If one wishes
to know more of this raging, three headed beast-like god, one only needs to look at the
caliber of people who say they serve him. They are always of two classes: fools and
hypocrites.
When we see religion split into so many thousands of sects, and I may say Christianity
itself divided into it's thousands also, who are disputing, anathematizing, and where the
laws permit, burning and torturing one another for abstractions which no one of them
understand, and which are indeed beyond the comprehension of the human mind, into
which of the chambers of this Bedlam would a man wish to thrust himself. The sum of all
religion as expressed by it's best preacher, "fear god and love thy neighbor,' contains
no mystery, needs no explanation - but this wont do. It gives no scope to make dupes;
priests could not live by it."
..........Letter to George Logan, November 12, 1816

"Creeds have been the bane of the Christian church ... made of Christendom a
slaughter-house."
..........To Benjamin Waterhouse, Jun. 26, 1822

 

[DriftingSand]

Can you give an example of what has been misrepresented by 'selectively picking and choosing and/or ignoring'?

The declaration in the Treaty of Tripoli that specifically stated the country was NOT based on the Christian faith and signed by Congress, including some of the founders.
That's a good place to start.

The 1805 treaty did not contain the phrase "not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion."

Treaty of Tripoli - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It appears that the treaty HAD to include that "not a Christian nation" clause as a means to protect American ships traveling near the Barbary Coast. That's very interesting.

 

[guno]

The Christian god is a three headed monster, cruel, vengeful, and capricious. If one wishes
to know more of this raging, three headed beast-like god, one only needs to look at the
caliber of people who say they serve him. They are always of two classes: fools and
hypocrites.
When we see religion split into so many thousands of sects, and I may say Christianity
itself divided into it's thousands also, who are disputing, anathematizing, and where the
laws permit, burning and torturing one another for abstractions which no one of them
understand, and which are indeed beyond the comprehension of the human mind, into
which of the chambers of this Bedlam would a man wish to thrust himself. The sum of all
religion as expressed by it's best preacher, "fear god and love thy neighbor,' contains
no mystery, needs no explanation - but this wont do. It gives no scope to make dupes;
priests could not live by it."
..........Letter to George Logan, November 12, 1816

"Creeds have been the bane of the Christian church ... made of Christendom a
slaughter-house."
..........To Benjamin Waterhouse, Jun. 26, 1822

Thomas Paine
"One of the embarrassing problems for the early nineteenth-century
champions of the Christian faith was that not one of the first six
Presidents of the United States was an orthodox Christian."
--The Encyclopedia Britannica, 1968, p. 420
"I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my own church."


"All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian, or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit."


"I would not dare to so dishonor my Creator God by attaching His name to that book (the Bible)."


"It is the duty of every true Deist to vindicate the moral justice of God against the evils of the Bible."

 

[DriftingSand]

The Christian god is a three headed monster, cruel, vengeful, and capricious. If one wishes
to know more of this raging, three headed beast-like god, one only needs to look at the
caliber of people who say they serve him. They are always of two classes: fools and
hypocrites.
When we see religion split into so many thousands of sects, and I may say Christianity
itself divided into it's thousands also, who are disputing, anathematizing, and where the
laws permit, burning and torturing one another for abstractions which no one of them
understand, and which are indeed beyond the comprehension of the human mind, into
which of the chambers of this Bedlam would a man wish to thrust himself. The sum of all
religion as expressed by it's best preacher, "fear god and love thy neighbor,' contains
no mystery, needs no explanation - but this wont do. It gives no scope to make dupes;
priests could not live by it."
..........Letter to George Logan, November 12, 1816

"Creeds have been the bane of the Christian church ... made of Christendom a
slaughter-house."
..........To Benjamin Waterhouse, Jun. 26, 1822

Wow! Nothing to do with the OP. Thanks a lot. You are free to go.

By the way ... don't forget all of those early Christians who fought and died so that you could have the freedom to hate them. A little gratitude might me in order.

 

[guno]

The Christian god is a three headed monster, cruel, vengeful, and capricious. If one wishes
to know more of this raging, three headed beast-like god, one only needs to look at the
caliber of people who say they serve him. They are always of two classes: fools and
hypocrites.
When we see religion split into so many thousands of sects, and I may say Christianity
itself divided into it's thousands also, who are disputing, anathematizing, and where the
laws permit, burning and torturing one another for abstractions which no one of them
understand, and which are indeed beyond the comprehension of the human mind, into
which of the chambers of this Bedlam would a man wish to thrust himself. The sum of all
religion as expressed by it's best preacher, "fear god and love thy neighbor,' contains
no mystery, needs no explanation - but this wont do. It gives no scope to make dupes;
priests could not live by it."
..........Letter to George Logan, November 12, 1816

"Creeds have been the bane of the Christian church ... made of Christendom a
slaughter-house."
..........To Benjamin Waterhouse, Jun. 26, 1822

Thomas Paine
"One of the embarrassing problems for the early nineteenth-century
champions of the Christian faith was that not one of the first six
Presidents of the United States was an orthodox Christian."
--The Encyclopedia Britannica, 1968, p. 420
"I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my own church."


"All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian, or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit."


"I would not dare to so dishonor my Creator God by attaching His name to that book (the Bible)."


"It is the duty of every true Deist to vindicate the moral justice of God against the evils of the Bible."

Ben Franklin

"The nearest I can make it out, 'Love your enemies' means, 'Hate your Friends'."


The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason.
-- Poor Richard's Almanack, 1758


"If we look back into history for the character of the present sects in Christianity, we shall find few that have not in their turns been persecutors, and complainers of persecution. The primitive Christians thought persecution extremely wrong in the Pagans, but practiced it on one another. The first Protestants of the Church of England blamed persecution in the Romish Church, but practiced it upon the Puritans. They found it wrong in Bishops, but fell into the practice themselves both here (England) and in New England."

 

[thebrucebeat]

Can you give an example of what has been misrepresented by 'selectively picking and choosing and/or ignoring'?

The declaration in the Treaty of Tripoli that specifically stated the country was NOT based on the Christian faith and signed by Congress, including some of the founders.
That's a good place to start.

Um no, that's not what I was asking, pay attention. Can you please go back and read the string of quoted posts if you don't understand the question, and try again.

And in addition, the T of T argument has been well worn out, surely you have other examples of your claim (that has nothing to do with my original question of course).

The issue is misrepresented by "'selectively picking and choosing'" by leaving out any discussion of the Treaty.
It is only one example of many that the founders made.
He discusses only that which supports his thesis and ignores anything else.

 

[Chuckt]

The declaration in the Treaty of Tripoli that specifically stated the country was NOT based on the Christian faith and signed by Congress, including some of the founders.
That's a good place to start.

The 1805 treaty did not contain the phrase "not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion."

Treaty of Tripoli - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It appears that the treaty HAD to include that "not a Christian nation" clause as a means to protect American ships traveling near the Barbary Coast. That's very interesting.

Lack of faith?
They lied?

 

[dblack]

... our nation was founded by Christians who lost life and limb so that you could freely hate them.

Indeed. It's the same kind of irony in recognizing how the principles of equality and human rights, that eventually led to the abolition of slavery, were enshrined into law by slaveowners. Ideas can take on a life of their own, and prompt us to rise above short sighted self interest - thus elevating the human condition.

It's certainly a good thing that so many Christian Americans and churches fought for abolition.

True. But my point was that many of those who fought for abolition, or at least the principles that led to abolition, were slaveowners themselves. It seems incomprehensible, to many of us, that founders like Jefferson - himself a slaveowner - would voluntarily pursue principles that undid an institution they depended on, but it happened.

Likewise, the movement to separate religion from government was most aggressively advocated by religious men, in part because they'd seen, first hand, the dangers of mixing power of organized religion with the power of the state.

 

[DriftingSand]

Treaty of Tripoli - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It appears that the treaty HAD to include that "not a Christian nation" clause as a means to protect American ships traveling near the Barbary Coast. That's very interesting.

Lack of faith?
They lied?

Or the clause was added at a later time!

 

[guno]

The Christian god is a three headed monster, cruel, vengeful, and capricious. If one wishes
to know more of this raging, three headed beast-like god, one only needs to look at the
caliber of people who say they serve him. They are always of two classes: fools and
hypocrites.
When we see religion split into so many thousands of sects, and I may say Christianity
itself divided into it's thousands also, who are disputing, anathematizing, and where the
laws permit, burning and torturing one another for abstractions which no one of them
understand, and which are indeed beyond the comprehension of the human mind, into
which of the chambers of this Bedlam would a man wish to thrust himself. The sum of all
religion as expressed by it's best preacher, "fear god and love thy neighbor,' contains
no mystery, needs no explanation - but this wont do. It gives no scope to make dupes;
priests could not live by it."
..........Letter to George Logan, November 12, 1816

"Creeds have been the bane of the Christian church ... made of Christendom a
slaughter-house."
..........To Benjamin Waterhouse, Jun. 26, 1822

Wow! Nothing to do with the OP. Thanks a lot. You are free to go.

By the way ... don't forget all of those early Christians who fought and died so that you could have the freedom to hate them. A little gratitude might me in order.

Of all the systems of religion that ever were invented, there is no more derogatory to the Almighty, more unedifiying to man, more repugnant to reason, and more contradictory to itself than this thing called Christianity. Too absurd for belief, too impossible to convince, and too inconsistent for practice, t renders the heart torpid or produces only atheists or fanatics. As an engine of power, it serves the purpose of despotism, and as ameans of wealth, the avarice of priests, but so far as respects the good of man in general it leads to nothing here or hereafter. [Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason]

 

[guno]

The Christian god is a three headed monster, cruel, vengeful, and capricious. If one wishes
to know more of this raging, three headed beast-like god, one only needs to look at the
caliber of people who say they serve him. They are always of two classes: fools and
hypocrites.
When we see religion split into so many thousands of sects, and I may say Christianity
itself divided into it's thousands also, who are disputing, anathematizing, and where the
laws permit, burning and torturing one another for abstractions which no one of them
understand, and which are indeed beyond the comprehension of the human mind, into
which of the chambers of this Bedlam would a man wish to thrust himself. The sum of all
religion as expressed by it's best preacher, "fear god and love thy neighbor,' contains
no mystery, needs no explanation - but this wont do. It gives no scope to make dupes;
priests could not live by it."
..........Letter to George Logan, November 12, 1816

"Creeds have been the bane of the Christian church ... made of Christendom a
slaughter-house."
..........To Benjamin Waterhouse, Jun. 26, 1822

Wow! Nothing to do with the OP. Thanks a lot. You are free to go.

By the way ... don't forget all of those early Christians who fought and died so that you could have the freedom to hate them. A little gratitude might me in order.

Of all the systems of religion that ever were invented, there is no more derogatory to the Almighty, more unedifiying to man, more repugnant to reason, and more contradictory to itself than this thing called Christianity. Too absurd for belief, too impossible to convince, and too inconsistent for practice, t renders the heart torpid or produces only atheists or fanatics. As an engine of power, it serves the purpose of despotism, and as ameans of wealth, the avarice of priests, but so far as respects the good of man in general it leads to nothing here or hereafter. [Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason]

Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782


And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerve in the brain of Jupiter. But may we hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this most venerated reformer of human errors.
-Thomas Jefferson, Letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823

 

[guno]

The Christian god is a three headed monster, cruel, vengeful, and capricious. If one wishes
to know more of this raging, three headed beast-like god, one only needs to look at the
caliber of people who say they serve him. They are always of two classes: fools and
hypocrites.
When we see religion split into so many thousands of sects, and I may say Christianity
itself divided into it's thousands also, who are disputing, anathematizing, and where the
laws permit, burning and torturing one another for abstractions which no one of them
understand, and which are indeed beyond the comprehension of the human mind, into
which of the chambers of this Bedlam would a man wish to thrust himself. The sum of all
religion as expressed by it's best preacher, "fear god and love thy neighbor,' contains
no mystery, needs no explanation - but this wont do. It gives no scope to make dupes;
priests could not live by it."
..........Letter to George Logan, November 12, 1816

"Creeds have been the bane of the Christian church ... made of Christendom a
slaughter-house."
..........To Benjamin Waterhouse, Jun. 26, 1822

Wow! Nothing to do with the OP. Thanks a lot. You are free to go.

By the way ... don't forget all of those early Christians who fought and died so that you could have the freedom to hate them. A little gratitude might me in order.

Quoting the founding fathers is hating christians?

Most were deists
Welcome To The Deism Site!

 

[DriftingSand]

Wow! Nothing to do with the OP. Thanks a lot. You are free to go.

By the way ... don't forget all of those early Christians who fought and died so that you could have the freedom to hate them. A little gratitude might me in order.

Of all the systems of religion that ever were invented, there is no more derogatory to the Almighty, more unedifiying to man, more repugnant to reason, and more contradictory to itself than this thing called Christianity. Too absurd for belief, too impossible to convince, and too inconsistent for practice, t renders the heart torpid or produces only atheists or fanatics. As an engine of power, it serves the purpose of despotism, and as ameans of wealth, the avarice of priests, but so far as respects the good of man in general it leads to nothing here or hereafter. [Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason]

Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782


And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerve in the brain of Jupiter. But may we hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this most venerated reformer of human errors.
-Thomas Jefferson, Letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823

Good thing our Christian founders saw to it that you could freely voice your opinion. I will thank them on your behalf and thank God for inspiring them to create the best possible government that a group of fallen men could possibly create. Their wisdom suggests that they fully understood than men needed to be kept in check for if too much power is given to too few men then corruption would certainly be born.

I dare any secular/humanist institution to provide a blueprint for a better form of Government than our Christian founders provided for us.

 

[DriftingSand]

The Christian god is a three headed monster, cruel, vengeful, and capricious. If one wishes
to know more of this raging, three headed beast-like god, one only needs to look at the
caliber of people who say they serve him. They are always of two classes: fools and
hypocrites.
When we see religion split into so many thousands of sects, and I may say Christianity
itself divided into it's thousands also, who are disputing, anathematizing, and where the
laws permit, burning and torturing one another for abstractions which no one of them
understand, and which are indeed beyond the comprehension of the human mind, into
which of the chambers of this Bedlam would a man wish to thrust himself. The sum of all
religion as expressed by it's best preacher, "fear god and love thy neighbor,' contains
no mystery, needs no explanation - but this wont do. It gives no scope to make dupes;
priests could not live by it."
..........Letter to George Logan, November 12, 1816

"Creeds have been the bane of the Christian church ... made of Christendom a
slaughter-house."
..........To Benjamin Waterhouse, Jun. 26, 1822

Wow! Nothing to do with the OP. Thanks a lot. You are free to go.

By the way ... don't forget all of those early Christians who fought and died so that you could have the freedom to hate them. A little gratitude might me in order.

Quoting the founding fathers is hating christians?

Most were deists
Welcome To The Deism Site!

It's clear that YOU hate Christians and Christianity. But you failed to watch the videos else you would know that most of our founders were Christian. Regardless, you don't believe in God so even calling them Deists goes against your own beliefs so I fail to see how that argument furthers your own belief that God is a figment of a man's imagination.

 

[guno]

The Christian god is a three headed monster, cruel, vengeful, and capricious. If one wishes
to know more of this raging, three headed beast-like god, one only needs to look at the
caliber of people who say they serve him. They are always of two classes: fools and
hypocrites.
When we see religion split into so many thousands of sects, and I may say Christianity
itself divided into it's thousands also, who are disputing, anathematizing, and where the
laws permit, burning and torturing one another for abstractions which no one of them
understand, and which are indeed beyond the comprehension of the human mind, into
which of the chambers of this Bedlam would a man wish to thrust himself. The sum of all
religion as expressed by it's best preacher, "fear god and love thy neighbor,' contains
no mystery, needs no explanation - but this wont do. It gives no scope to make dupes;
priests could not live by it."
..........Letter to George Logan, November 12, 1816

"Creeds have been the bane of the Christian church ... made of Christendom a
slaughter-house."
..........To Benjamin Waterhouse, Jun. 26, 1822

Wow! Nothing to do with the OP. Thanks a lot. You are free to go.

By the way ... don't forget all of those early Christians who fought and died so that you could have the freedom to hate them. A little gratitude might me in order.

Quoting the founding fathers is hating christians?

Most were deists
Welcome To The Deism Site!

The primary leaders of the so-called founding fathers of our nation were not Bible-believing Christians; they were deists. Deism was a philosophical belief that was widely accepted by the colonial intelligentsia at the time of the American Revolution. Its major tenets included belief in human reason as a reliable means of solving social and political problems and belief in a supreme deity who created the universe to operate solely by natural laws. The supreme God of the Deists removed himself entirely from the universe after creating it. They believed that he assumed no control over it, exerted no influence on natural phenomena, and gave no supernatural revelation to man. A necessary consequence of these beliefs was a rejection of many doctrines central to the Christian religion. Deists did not believe in the virgin birth, divinity, or resurrection of Jesus, the efficacy of prayer, the miracles of the Bible, or even the divine inspiration of the Bible.

 

[Chuckt]

Wow! Nothing to do with the OP. Thanks a lot. You are free to go.

By the way ... don't forget all of those early Christians who fought and died so that you could have the freedom to hate them. A little gratitude might me in order.

Of all the systems of religion that ever were invented, there is no more derogatory to the Almighty, more unedifiying to man, more repugnant to reason, and more contradictory to itself than this thing called Christianity. Too absurd for belief, too impossible to convince, and too inconsistent for practice, t renders the heart torpid or produces only atheists or fanatics. As an engine of power, it serves the purpose of despotism, and as ameans of wealth, the avarice of priests, but so far as respects the good of man in general it leads to nothing here or hereafter. [Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason]

Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782


And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerve in the brain of Jupiter. But may we hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this most venerated reformer of human errors.
-Thomas Jefferson, Letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823

George Washington called one of them "That dumb deist". Wonder which one it was.

 

[elektra]

When it comes to Franklin, whether he was a Quaker or Puritan, we can agree he was a christian in the general sense of the word.


I think the most radical founding father when it came to thoughts of god and faith was probably Thomas Paine.

I seriously doubt he was an atheist. Are these public school teaching Paine is an atheist? If they are not, who are the public schools accusing is an atheist?

When it comes to Franklin, whether he was a Quaker or Puritan, we can agree he was a christian in the general sense of the word.


I think the most radical founding father when it came to thoughts of god and faith was probably Thomas Paine.

I seriously doubt he was an atheist. Are these public school teaching Paine is an atheist? If they are not, who are the public schools accusing is an atheist?

Of all the founders, I think Paine was the only one who was possibly Deist, and Deism, of course, includes a belief in God.

I am not aware that Thomas Paine was a founding father, he was not a representative of any state, did not attend the Continental Congress, spent but a brief time in America.

Influential yes, a Founding Father no.

 

[DriftingSand]

Indeed. It's the same kind of irony in recognizing how the principles of equality and human rights, that eventually led to the abolition of slavery, were enshrined into law by slaveowners. Ideas can take on a life of their own, and prompt us to rise above short sighted self interest - thus elevating the human condition.

It's certainly a good thing that so many Christian Americans and churches fought for abolition.

True. But my point was that many of those who fought for abolition, or at least the principles that led to abolition, were slaveowners themselves. It seems incomprehensible, to many of us, that founders like Jefferson - himself a slaveowner - would voluntarily pursue principles that undid an institution they depended on, but it happened.

Likewise, the movement to separate religion from government was most aggressively advocated by religious men, in part because they'd seen, first hand, the dangers of mixing power of organized religion with the power of the state.

The founders were wise not to allow any particular, organized Christian sect to rule the nation. They, instead, incorporated some basic, Christian tenets into the verbiage of the Constitution and agreed upon what a man's basic rights are. They agreed that Christ and the Apostles NEVER forced anyone to believe or not believe or to join a particular religious sect. That's wisdom to the extreme.

 

[guno]

Thomas Jefferson:

"The Christian god is a three headed monster, cruel, vengeful, and capricious. If one wishes
to know more of this raging, three headed beast-like god, one only needs to look at the
caliber of people who say they serve him. They are always of two classes: fools and
hypocrites.
When we see religion split into so many thousands of sects, and I may say Christianity
itself divided into it's thousands also, who are disputing, anathematizing, and where the
laws permit, burning and torturing one another for abstractions which no one of them
understand, and which are indeed beyond the comprehension of the human mind, into
which of the chambers of this Bedlam would a man wish to thrust himself. The sum of all
religion as expressed by it's best preacher, "fear god and love thy neighbor,' contains
no mystery, needs no explanation - but this wont do. It gives no scope to make dupes;
priests could not live by it."
..........Letter to George Logan, November 12, 1816

"Creeds have been the bane of the Christian church ... made of Christendom a
slaughter-house."
..........To Benjamin Waterhouse, Jun. 26, 1822

Fundamentalist Christians are currently working overtime to convince the American public that the founding fathers intended to establish this country on "biblical principles," but history simply does not support their view. The men mentioned above and others who were instrumental in the founding of our nation were in no sense Bible-believing Christians. Thomas Jefferson, in fact, was fiercely anti-cleric. In a letter to Horatio Spafford in 1814, Jefferson said, "In every country and every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own. It is easier to acquire wealth and power by this combination than by deserving them, and to effect this, they have perverted the purest religion ever preached to man into mystery and jargon, unintelligible to all mankind, and therefore the safer for their purposes" (George Seldes, The Great Quotations, Secaucus, New Jersey Citadel Press, 1983, p. 371). In a letter to Mrs. Harrison Smith, he wrote, "It is in our lives, and not from our words, that our religion must be read. By the same test the world must judge me. But this does not satisfy the priesthood. They must have a positive, a declared assent to all their interested absurdities. My opinion is that there would never have been an infidel, if there had never been a priest" (August 6, 1816).

Jefferson was just as suspicious of the traditional belief that the Bible is "the inspired word of God." He rewrote the story of Jesus as told in the New Testament and compiled his own gospel version known as The Jefferson Bible, which eliminated all miracles attributed to Jesus and ended with his burial. The Jeffersonian gospel account contained no resurrection, a twist to the life of Jesus that was considered scandalous to Christians but perfectly sensible to Jefferson's Deistic mind. In a letter to John Adams, he wrote, "To talk of immaterial existences is to talk of nothings. To say that the human soul, angels, God, are immaterial is to say they are nothings, or that there is no God, no angels, no soul. I cannot reason otherwise" (August 15, 1820). In saying this, Jefferson was merely expressing the widely held Deistic view of his time, which rejected the mysticism of the Bible and relied on natural law and human reason to explain why the world is as it is. Writing to Adams again, Jefferson said, "And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter" (April 11, 1823). These were hardly the words of a devout Bible-believer.

Jefferson didn't just reject the Christian belief that the Bible was "the inspired word of God"; he rejected the Christian system too. In Notes on the State of Virginia, he said of this religion, "There is not one redeeming feature in our superstition of Christianity. It has made one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites" (quoted by newspaper columnist William Edelen, "Politics and Religious Illiteracy," Truth Seeker, Vol. 121, No. 3, p. 33).[1] Anyone today who would make a statement like this or others we have quoted from Jefferson's writings would be instantly branded an infidel, yet modern Bible fundamentalists are frantically trying to cast Jefferson in the mold of a Bible believing Christian. They do so, of course, because Jefferson was just too important in the formation of our nation to leave him out if Bible fundamentalists hope to sell their "Christian-nation" claim to the public. Hence, they try to rewrite history to make it appear that men like Thomas Jefferson had intended to build our nation on "biblical principles." The irony of this situation is that the Christian leaders of Jefferson's time knew where he stood on "biblical principles," and they fought desperately, but unsuccessfully, to prevent his election to the presidency. Saul K. Padover's biography related the bitterness of the opposition that the clergy mounted against Jefferson in the campaign of 1800

The religious issue was dragged out, and stirred up flames of hatred and intolerance. Clergymen, mobilizing their heaviest artillery of thunder and brimstone, threatened Christians with all manner of dire consequences if they should vote for the "in fidel" from Virginia. This was particularly true in New England, where the clergy stood like Gibraltar against Jefferson (Jefferson A Great American's Life and Ideas, Mentor Books, 1964, p.116).

Why would contemporary clergymen have so vigorously opposed Jefferson's election if he were as devoutly Christian as modern preachers claim? The answer is that Jefferson was not a Christian, and the preachers of his day knew that he wasn't.

 

[DriftingSand]

Wow! Nothing to do with the OP. Thanks a lot. You are free to go.

By the way ... don't forget all of those early Christians who fought and died so that you could have the freedom to hate them. A little gratitude might me in order.

Quoting the founding fathers is hating christians?

Most were deists
Welcome To The Deism Site!

The primary leaders of the so-called founding fathers of our nation were not Bible-believing Christians; they were deists. Deism was a philosophical belief that was widely accepted by the colonial intelligentsia at the time of the American Revolution. Its major tenets included belief in human reason as a reliable means of solving social and political problems and belief in a supreme deity who created the universe to operate solely by natural laws. The supreme God of the Deists removed himself entirely from the universe after creating it. They believed that he assumed no control over it, exerted no influence on natural phenomena, and gave no supernatural revelation to man. A necessary consequence of these beliefs was a rejection of many doctrines central to the Christian religion. Deists did not believe in the virgin birth, divinity, or resurrection of Jesus, the efficacy of prayer, the miracles of the Bible, or even the divine inspiration of the Bible.

The first video in the OP specifically states that modern "historians" are teaching a new form of "history" (a revised form). But then he goes on to prove why they are wrong. I'm guessing that you're too close minded to watch.