Welfare should be ended completely

[WheelieAddict]

The biggest scheme was convincing liberals that state social services were not exploitative.

I actually believe in public services, but only when they are funded voluntarily and they do not operate as charities.

The biggest failure of welfare in history has been Africa. There have been many social workers that have later explained how all their efforts were wasted, because you cannot just give people free things and expect that to be sustainable change on its own.



I heard about this guy several years ago, and he really changed my perception on how destructive and unproductive charity was.

Yeah because all those seniors on social security are getting ripped off they coulda been rich if not for the evil gubmint. Fuck sakes I thought Andylusion was a moron you are even worse.

 

[Andylusion]

It's very clear Andylusion has no idea about anything.

Coming from someone I just had to report 5 separate posts, for spamming a link, with absolutely no comments at all.

Typical pussy conservative. You see that's another thing I don't understand about them, they talk all tough, big patriots and shit, then they whine to the teacher at the first opportunity.

Typical pussy left-winger. You see, here is another thing everyone understands about them. They refuse to follow the rules, and then cry and whine when they get caught on it.

 

[Andylusion]

Social Security (United States) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Starting with post 19, I am reporting each and every single post of yours, that you copy and paste the same thing over and over. You can not just spam the forums, without any comment at all, as a substitution for discussion.

Report all you want you little bitch. How about finally addressing the fact that social security is a successful "welfare program".

One, when a little b!tch squeals that other people are little b!tches... you laugh.
Sad little boy. Just follow the rules.

If you had simply said why you were posting the link, I would have answered.

Answer: It isn't. Social Security is the most poverty creating program in this country. Moreover, it's going broke. By 2019, the spending will exceed revenue. The problem is, the "assets" of the trust fund.... are merely IOUs from the Federal government. Tell me sparky, how many billions does the Federal government have, to cover the IOUs to Social Security?

Zero!

So how secure is the Social Security trust fund? It isn't.

If you don't want to believe that, then why did Obama cry that unless we increased the debt limit, Social Security wouldn't be paid out?

If the Trust fund is fully funded, then it shouldn't matter if the government borrows more money, or not. Why would it matter?

Because Social Security is broke. That's why. There is no money in Social Security, and when the program runs out of money, the government won't be able to cover it.

That's why the retirement age keeps going up, and the payouts keep going down.

You really think that $1,300 a month is a great retirement? Then why do you have the fight for 15 movement?

So you have nothing. Social security isn't broke and it is the most successful "welfare" program ever in the history of the US.

You see, back in the olden days when your bullshit was how it was done old people that didn't save enough on their own, or were unfortunate to lose some money, or were ripped off by "investments", or picked the wrong investment....etc. Well they should have been smarter so they can suffer you say.

Luckily smarter heads prevailed and established a fund so none of our senior citizens have to live out the end of their lives starving to death. Of course you would like that to go away and if they starve it's just their fault right.

Social security is widely popular and supported because it is the best kind of "wellfare". The only people who want to do away with it without something to replace it are the biggest assholes or idiots amongst us.

You know, even if you were right in worrying about those 'scary investments' that you apparently are unable to handle.... ok..... Put your money into a CD. If you are mentally incapable of handling a simple stock market fund.... just put the money into a Certificate of Deposit.

If you earned minimum wage from age 20 to 65, and put in 15%, which is how much Social Security collects, into just CDs. By age 65 you would have easily $200,000 in CDs.
That would still be better off than Social Security.

And by the way, unlike all the examples I gave, when you die, you can pass on the money you earned to kids or grand kids. All the money you sink into Social Security, when you die, it's gone.
There is absolutely no possible way of having a retirement system, where Social Security out performs it.

Impossible.

 

[Onyx]

"I am being used and abused by my employer! So I'm going to keep going back every single day so I can complain about it, and not do anything to fix the situation I am choosing to put myself into!"

I said that you should get pissed off. Not that you should whine without taking direct action.

To maintain equitable capitalism, you need to challenge those that exploit their workers to reap rewards much higher than their labor and achievements.

Of course, quitting is always much more respectful to the free market than throwing strikes. The anarchist CNT, which is a famed confederation of anarchist trade unions in Spain, has criticized the modern unions which do more whining than they do changing the playing field.

 

[Andylusion]

The biggest scheme was convincing liberals that state social services were not exploitative.

I actually believe in public services, but only when they are funded voluntarily and they do not operate as charities.

The biggest failure of welfare in history has been Africa. There have been many social workers that have later explained how all their efforts were wasted, because you cannot just give people free things and expect that to be sustainable change on its own.



I heard about this guy several years ago, and he really changed my perception on how destructive and unproductive charity was.

Yeah because all those seniors on social security are getting ripped off they coulda been rich if not for the evil gubmint. Fuck sakes I thought Andylusion was a moron you are even worse.

Right... so when confronted with proven fact... you resort to ridicule? That's all you got? Can't argue against the truth... so let's default to ridicule.

 

[WheelieAddict]

It's very clear Andylusion has no idea about anything.

Coming from someone I just had to report 5 separate posts, for spamming a link, with absolutely no comments at all.

Typical pussy conservative. You see that's another thing I don't understand about them, they talk all tough, big patriots and shit, then they whine to the teacher at the first opportunity.

Typical pussy left-winger. You see, here is another thing everyone understands about them. They refuse to follow the rules, and then cry and whine when they get caught on it.

I'm not the one trying to report someone. That's you. Did you report me for hurting your feelings again softie? lol

 

[Andylusion]

"I am being used and abused by my employer! So I'm going to keep going back every single day so I can complain about it, and not do anything to fix the situation I am choosing to put myself into!"

I said that you should get pissed off. Not that you should whine without taking direct action.

To maintain equitable capitalism, you need to challenge those that exploit their workers to reap rewards much higher than their labor and achievements.

Of course, quitting is always much more respectful to the free market than throwing strikes. The anarchist CNT, which is historical anarchist confederation of trade unions in Spain, has criticized the modern unions which do more whining than they do changing the playing field.

But even then, what you consider 'exploit', isn't considered that by the people there.

The job I was talking about, I talked to the other employees. They thought it was great.

They told me they loved the job, and the wages was fine for them.

That's the problem. A person on the outside, says it's exploitative. That doesn't mean it is. You might be harming people, while claiming to be against exploitation.

 

[Andylusion]

It's very clear Andylusion has no idea about anything.

Coming from someone I just had to report 5 separate posts, for spamming a link, with absolutely no comments at all.

Typical pussy conservative. You see that's another thing I don't understand about them, they talk all tough, big patriots and shit, then they whine to the teacher at the first opportunity.

Typical pussy left-winger. You see, here is another thing everyone understands about them. They refuse to follow the rules, and then cry and whine when they get caught on it.

I'm not the one trying to report someone. That's you. Did you report me for hurting your feelings again softie? lol

Of course you are not reporting someone. We're not breaking the forum rules. You were. What would you report? "Andy is using the forum correctly!".

Come on tiny. You can't handle the rules? Stay off the forum then.

 

[BluesLegend]

Liberal abortion clinics, they have killed more than 50 million babies I guess to make room for illegals. The Nazi's are in hell saying goddamn even we weren't that evil.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

It's very clear Andylusion has no idea about anything.

Coming from someone I just had to report 5 separate posts, for spamming a link, with absolutely no comments at all.

Typical pussy conservative. You see that's another thing I don't understand about them, they talk all tough, big patriots and shit, then they whine to the teacher at the first opportunity.

Typical pussy left-winger. You see, here is another thing everyone understands about them. They refuse to follow the rules, and then cry and whine when they get caught on it.

I'm not the one trying to report someone. That's you. Did you report me for hurting your feelings again softie? lol

Of course you are not reporting someone. We're not breaking the forum rules. You were. What would you report? "Andy is using the forum correctly!".

Come on tiny. You can't handle the rules? Stay off the forum then.

He flames for effect

 

[Onyx]

But even then, what you consider 'exploit', isn't considered that by the people there.

The job I was talking about, I talked to the other employees. They thought it was great.

They told me they loved the job, and the wages was fine for them.

That's the problem. A person on the outside, says it's exploitative. That doesn't mean it is. You might be harming people, while claiming to be against exploitation.

My position is agreeing with you more than you might realize.

There have been unions which have whined endlessly about the way they are being treated, and what they were demanding often is actually harmful to the industry they are protesting.

My opinion is that rather than trying to protest private enterprise, workers should try to go to where they feel they wont be exploited. If the enterprises in a market have a monopoly on exploitation, workers should compile their resources and redefine the industry through syndicates, as many have worker unions have done successfully in the past.

 

[Andylusion]

The biggest scheme was convincing liberals that state social services were not exploitative.

I actually believe in public services, but only when they are funded voluntarily and they do not operate as charities.

The biggest failure of welfare in history has been Africa. There have been many social workers that have later explained how all their efforts were wasted, because you cannot just give people free things and expect that to be sustainable change on its own.



I heard about this guy several years ago, and he really changed my perception on how destructive and unproductive charity is.

Yes I agree completely. I had the same revelation, during a podcast of Econtalk, where they discovered that after the Haiti Earthquake, all these government charity programs poured into Haiti.

What they discovered was that these aid programs started providing for free, what existing companies and businesses were providing. The result was that the economy started declining has local businesses and companies closed up shop, and pulled out of Haiti.

Hundreds of thousands were left unemployed and thus impoverished.

But of course the left-wing had an cow and threw a fit, when a business owners opened up in Haiti from the US, and started employing people. Because he was 'exploiting' them.

From what I know, he ignored the accusations, and continued to grow in Haiti, exploiting more people with more jobs.

Which did more good for Haiti? The exploiter, or the government charity?

 

[Andylusion]

What are you talking about? The top 10 most profitable companies in the US, only brought in $200 Billion in profits. If you taxed that at 100%, it wouldn't cover Medicaid. Let alone Medicare, or Social Security, or anything else. This years Federal Budget is $4 Trillion.

No amount of taxes on any company, at any tax rate, would bring in more than 1/10th of that.

And by the way, the higher you jack up those tax rates, the more companies move out of the country. Meaning you are going to get zero money. Burger King already left the US. They are in Canada now. Good job sparky. Yeah, Corporate tax is going to pay the nations expenses? You are crazy.

Not happening. If that's your plan, you have a failed plan. You need a new plan.

Tracking Tax Runaways: Bloomberg Inversions Database

Dozens of companies have left the US, just since 2012. The more the government tries to stop it, the more it happens.

Now back to your claim. You said 2/3rd of companies pay no tax.

This is entirely false on every single possible ground. First, corporations pay tons of other taxes. Employment taxes. Social Security tax. Medicare Tax. Unemployment taxes. Works comp taxes. Excise taxes. Fuel taxes. Environmental taxes.

Let's ignore all that.... Every single CEO, executive, board member, administration, all the way down to the lowest mail room clerk... pays taxes on their income.

Every single distribution of shares, dividends and stock options, pays taxes.

When you say, for example, that General Motors paid no Federal income tax. Mary T. Barra CEO of GM most certainly did pay Federal Income taxes. Yes she did.

So from absolutely no possible perspective, can you claim 2/3rd of companies paid zero Federal taxes. BS. You are wrong. PERIOD.

But let's focus in on exclusively corporate taxes. You claim that 2/3rds of corporations paid no Federal Corporate income tax.

This is false. Sorry, it's simply not true. Not even close to true. Most all companies pay corporate income tax.

However, I do know where you got that absolute trash statistic from. Bernie Sanders, circulated a paper claiming 2/3rds of companies paid zero income tax. What Bernie failed to make clear, was the time line. Between 2006.... and 2012, 2/3rds of companies paid zero tax.

Interesting cut off.... only 2006..... to 2012.... Gee.... Sparky.... can you come up with any possible reason why between just 2006 to 2012, that a ton of companies paid zero in tax?

What possible event could have happened between 2006 and 2012, that somehow could have affected tax revenues from corporations? What could it be! How can't you figure out why on Earth companies may have not paid tax during 2006 to 2012?

WE HAD A RECESSION! Of course profits fell like crap, and with them, tax revenue fell like crap. Resulting in many companies not paying tax.

Sorry, but the 2/3rds of companies don't pay tax is flat out a lie. Profitable companies are paying tons in taxes.

Ugh.... people.... Use your brain. Assuming it wasn't completely removed by a communist in Vermont.

Lol I love how you call my fact bullshit without actually trying to debunk it. Look it's right here:

Majority of corporations avoid federal income taxes - study - Aug. 12, 2008

Of course besides deductions, we really can't forget about the off shore tax havens now can we? How do you think that affects the deficit?

All liberterians and extreme conservatives care about is the few percent at the top that take most of the wealth. Everyone else can die as far as they are concern! It is a major fucking sickness.

I wouldn't put "all" Libertarians in your category at all. "Conservatives" I am having a hard time figuring them out. They seem to love voting for politicians like "W" or Trump that blow the deficit sky high, but they are supposed to be fiscally conservative.

You are too far left to ever hope to understand conservatives....

You are likely right, they spend money like water on what they see as ok and don't count it it seems. I truly don't understand it.

Yeah that darn right-winger Obama spending $1 Trillion dollar deficits for 4 years straight.... Can't understand those conservatives.....

 

[Onyx]

Yeah because all those seniors on social security are getting ripped off they coulda been rich if not for the evil gubmint.

No, but they are being enabled into a dependent lifestyle. Dependency can work, but it is unsustainable and inferior to being self-reliant.

You should definitely try to help people, but only when they are committed to helping themselves. In addition, you should reject immoral and dishonest practices, such as using forced taxation as a means of funding public social services.

 

[WheelieAddict]

It's very clear Andylusion has no idea about anything.

Coming from someone I just had to report 5 separate posts, for spamming a link, with absolutely no comments at all.

Typical pussy conservative. You see that's another thing I don't understand about them, they talk all tough, big patriots and shit, then they whine to the teacher at the first opportunity.

Typical pussy left-winger. You see, here is another thing everyone understands about them. They refuse to follow the rules, and then cry and whine when they get caught on it.

I'm not the one trying to report someone. That's you. Did you report me for hurting your feelings again softie? lol

Of course you are not reporting someone. We're not breaking the forum rules. You were. What would you report? "Andy is using the forum correctly!".

Come on tiny. You can't handle the rules? Stay off the forum then.

Report away softie

 

[WheelieAddict]

It's very clear Andylusion has no idea about anything.

Coming from someone I just had to report 5 separate posts, for spamming a link, with absolutely no comments at all.

Typical pussy conservative. You see that's another thing I don't understand about them, they talk all tough, big patriots and shit, then they whine to the teacher at the first opportunity.

Typical pussy left-winger. You see, here is another thing everyone understands about them. They refuse to follow the rules, and then cry and whine when they get caught on it.

I'm not the one trying to report someone. That's you. Did you report me for hurting your feelings again softie? lol

Of course you are not reporting someone. We're not breaking the forum rules. You were. What would you report? "Andy is using the forum correctly!".

Come on tiny. You can't handle the rules? Stay off the forum then.

^tries to make it like i'm the one reporting people when she's the one that keeps reporting me. ;-)

 

[WheelieAddict]

Lol I love how you call my fact bullshit without actually trying to debunk it. Look it's right here:

Majority of corporations avoid federal income taxes - study - Aug. 12, 2008

Of course besides deductions, we really can't forget about the off shore tax havens now can we? How do you think that affects the deficit?

All liberterians and extreme conservatives care about is the few percent at the top that take most of the wealth. Everyone else can die as far as they are concern! It is a major fucking sickness.

I wouldn't put "all" Libertarians in your category at all. "Conservatives" I am having a hard time figuring them out. They seem to love voting for politicians like "W" or Trump that blow the deficit sky high, but they are supposed to be fiscally conservative.

You are too far left to ever hope to understand conservatives....

You are likely right, they spend money like water on what they see as ok and don't count it it seems. I truly don't understand it.

Yeah that darn right-winger Obama spending $1 Trillion dollar deficits for 4 years straight.... Can't understand those conservatives.....

Yeah it's the libs. How about you face the reality that your "conservative" govt. is nothing of the sort, and basically a joke to anyone paying attention.

Big government gets bigger

 

[WheelieAddict]

“We have now presided over the largest increase in the size of government since the Great Society,” said Sen. John McCain, the Republican candidate vying to replace Mr. Bush in the White House, during the first presidential debate."

 

[Disir]

Republican welfare ideas actually do get people off of welfare. The left criticizes them for some minor reason but they do reduce the welfare rolls to some degree. The same can never be said about 'liberal' welfare programs. Those always seem to expand.

TANF has a lifetime limit of 5 years and can and is shortened by the states. So,which ones?

WIC is a fantastic program (that someone mentioned) for those that need it especially when you consider that babies nutrition is tied to brain development. Pay now or pay for the rest of their lives. If you have a baby that is not gaining weight appropriately then they put them on a formula that runs about $30 a can.

There are some programs that should not receive funding or need to be reconsidered. There aren't too many folks willing to look into it.

 

[Onyx]

Yeah it's the libs. How about you face the reality that your "conservative" govt. is nothing of the sort, and basically a joke to anyone paying attention.

Big government gets bigger

The Republicans are contributing to bigger government for sure.