Welfare should be ended completely

[owebo]

I haven't studied it but would think all that welfare money is being recycled right back into the economy. I'm all for cleaning up the system but am not there yet on eliminating it completely. I first need an understanding of the effects of any collateral consequences.

China would collapse....

 

[Andylusion]

I haven't studied it but would think all that welfare money is being recycled right back into the economy. I'm all for cleaning up the system but am not there yet on eliminating it completely. I first need an understanding of the effects of any collateral consequences.

Does the fact that the money is going back into the economy, mean that it is a benefit to the economy?

You are focusing on the money, as if the money, is what makes wealth. Money is just a means of exchange. That's all it is. It is a method for exchanging goods and services. That's it.

What makes wealth, is the creation of goods and services.

If you doubt that, just try and imagine if everyone went on welfare. Hey the money goes back into the economy..... wait.... what economy? There is nothing to buy, because no one is producing any goods, or any services. No one is working to produce anything, because they are all on welfare.

See the problem?

My personal system of thinking, is that there are three levels of economic participation. First the consumer. Everyone is automatically a consumer. At a bare minimum you have to eat. So food is a form of wealth, and you consume the food, which means you consume that wealth. Similarly you drive a car, and as it gets old and has more problems, it loses value. You are consuming that wealth.

So everyone is automatically a consumer.

Then you have producers. People who produce something that has value. You produce food, or create parts for a car, or whatever. You are creating something of value, and that adds wealth to the economy.

Lastly, investors. These are people who use their wealth, to create more wealth.

The more investors any economy has, the better off it usually is.

But the more people who are only consuming, without producing, the worse off the economy is.

Saying the currency goes back into the economy is irrelevant. It would go back into the economy no matter what you did with it. Where else would it go? A black hole in space?

Moving money around doesn't grow wealth. If I give you $100, and then you give me $100, what wealth is created in any of those transactions? None. If that's all we do, we're creating no wealth in the economy. But we are consuming wealth, because we still have to eat, drink, and so on.

Welfare is inherently a negative on the economy.

 

[Andylusion]

Unless he has some serious disability, which he may have.

He will have to attend an interview at the job centre every two weeks. At that interview he will have to provide evidence of applications made and interviews attended and so on.
The job centre will provide him with a list of suitable positions he can apply for and they follow this up..
Under the first tier of unemployment he has some choice as to what to apply for but after a while he is expected to apply for anything that pays a wage.

The sick are also under attack. There are many stories of people receiving "go back to work" letters on the day of their funerals. Suicides are also rife amongst the disabled and the government tried to cover up the figures for years.

Thousands have died after being found fit for work, DWP figures show

Its not an easy ride at all.

Atos scandal: Benefits bosses admit over half of people ruled fit to work ended up destitute

New claims of Atos assessment lies are ‘tip of a massive iceberg’

'This brutal new system': a GP's take on Atos and work capability assessments | Anna Pilkington

Atos scandal, conference highlights and growing inequality in the UK

Now that I actually believe quite easily.

It is extremely difficult for people who have been unemployed for extended periods of time, to get back into doing work.

It would not surprise me one bit, if that guy from years ago committed suicide, if you cut his benefits. He was a pot head, used to living the pot head life style on government benefits. He had not had a job in likely 5 years.

If you cut him off, and said get a job.... yeah he likely would commit suicide.

Now I know for a fact he wasn't disabled. He certainly wasn't mentally disabled, and he would talk about dancing with his girl friend at the clubs. So I can't imagine what physical disability he would have, that allowed him to dance, but not work.

But this if why you don't teach people to live a dependent life style to begin with.

I read where people who used the 99-weeks of unemployment in the US, when it finely ran out, they had a really hard time finding a job. They had not worked a job in 2 years. It's difficult to get back to work, when you haven't had to get up in the morning for the last two years.

So, Yes, I believe every single one of those articles. Doesn't surprise me much at all. You teach your people to live off government, and then the government runs out of money.... suddenly their way of living is flipped upside down. Some are going to go into depression. You set them up to fail. Stop that.