We Need Government Healthcare Like Canada!

[Cecilie1200]

I believe it was Einstein who said, only a fool would expect the entity that created a problem to find a solution to it.

Right, and for profit corporations have caused our mess. So leaving the solution to them is a terrible idea.

No, they haven't. The government meddling and trying to control the free market caused the mess, aided and abetted by fools like you who understand nothing but preach as if you know all.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Which drug companies? Have any names?

Epipen is an extremely good example. Making them costs $30. They sell them for $700

The Soaring Price of EpiPen | RN.com

Great. That's a start. Now according to your article, the Epipen is manufactured by Mylan. Here is their profit margin:

Current and historical gross margin, operating margin and net profit margin for Mylan (MYL) over the last 10 years. Profit margin can be defined as the percentage of revenue that a company retains as income after the deduction of expenses. Mylan net profit margin as of September 30, 2019 is 0.42%.

Mylan Profit Margin 2006-2019 | MYL

.42% I believe the banks are offering more for a savings account. Now let me ask: would you invest in this company?

You see, pharmaceutical companies invest a ton of money to satisfy our FDA. Hundreds of millions of dollars and years of red tape and testing need to take place to put a drug into market. When they make all those investments, and the FDA disapproves their drug, they need to increase the prices on their existing drugs.

Included in that cost is an intrinsic liability cost. When you put drugs out on the market, somebody is going to have a problem with it. When they do, the ambulance chasers are front and center to sue your company. Just look at what they did to the company that produces opioid products.

But of course, the reporters who tell you it only costs X to produce, but they sell it for Y, leave a whole lot of factors out of the mix.

Mylan doesn’t bring new drugs to market. They’re a genetic manufacturer. They purchase other companies and acquire their business; which is a really good way of driving down the net profit. Their gross profit is 30-40%.

still have to test it against all probabilities. do you know those costs? Or the time it takes? or what do you do when you fail? All the things no one thinks of when complaining about costs. you all have no idea.

Sacrificing human beings for profit is the idea. Worked in pharma for 26 years, you?

Oh, spare me the sanctimony. You're willing to sacrifice people's well-being just so you can feel smug and superior.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Great. That's a start. Now according to your article, the Epipen is manufactured by Mylan. Here is their profit margin:

Current and historical gross margin, operating margin and net profit margin for Mylan (MYL) over the last 10 years. Profit margin can be defined as the percentage of revenue that a company retains as income after the deduction of expenses. Mylan net profit margin as of September 30, 2019 is 0.42%.

Mylan Profit Margin 2006-2019 | MYL

.42% I believe the banks are offering more for a savings account. Now let me ask: would you invest in this company?

You see, pharmaceutical companies invest a ton of money to satisfy our FDA. Hundreds of millions of dollars and years of red tape and testing need to take place to put a drug into market. When they make all those investments, and the FDA disapproves their drug, they need to increase the prices on their existing drugs.

Included in that cost is an intrinsic liability cost. When you put drugs out on the market, somebody is going to have a problem with it. When they do, the ambulance chasers are front and center to sue your company. Just look at what they did to the company that produces opioid products.

But of course, the reporters who tell you it only costs X to produce, but they sell it for Y, leave a whole lot of factors out of the mix.

Mylan doesn’t bring new drugs to market. They’re a genetic manufacturer. They purchase other companies and acquire their business; which is a really good way of driving down the net profit. Their gross profit is 30-40%.

still have to test it against all probabilities. do you know those costs? Or the time it takes? or what do you do when you fail? All the things no one thinks of when complaining about costs. you all have no idea.

Sacrificing human beings for profit is the idea. Worked in pharma for 26 years, you?

they sacrifice animals. Ask Peta.

Like I said popeye, don't need to ask, worked in the industry.

Judging from your posts, I can only assume that means you were a janitor who got fired for smoking weed in the basement.

 

[Cecilie1200]

So you can wait 3 weeks after your general practitioner refers you to a specialist and 39 weeks for orthopedic surgery.

And Bloomberg says if you’re old, you can just die.

While Americans pine for 'Medicare for all,' Canadians look for US-style private insurance

Whoah, slow down there, commie. In this country, we are proposing government health insurance, not government healthcare.

what's the difference?

Between...your insurance company and your doctor or hospital? Uh...I'm going to give you some time, see if you can figure it out on your own.

You've got time to have a sandwich and pay a few bills.

As if leftists ever pay their own bills.

 

[Andylusion]

So you can wait 3 weeks after your general practitioner refers you to a specialist and 39 weeks for orthopedic surgery.

And Bloomberg says if you’re old, you can just die.

While Americans pine for 'Medicare for all,' Canadians look for US-style private insurance

With inssurance in the US and it can be worse. What's also worse millions are with no health care, and millions cant afford the Bill's. I live here I have family and friends in both canada and europe when it comes to health, education and safety net they take care of their own we rather give it to big pharma, wars and politicians.

Yeah, and that's part of the problem.

We pay for the defense of Europe, which without us, they would have to pay more for national defense.
We pay for the medication of Europe, which without us, they wouldn't have any of those medication.

Now in your thinking, we should stop paying for all of that, and with defense I somewhat agree. But the problem is, if we stop defending Europe entirely, then we will likely end up in World War 3. It is because of our military power, that we have been able to keep the peace for so long.

But with Pharma, if we don't pay for it, no one else will. No one is going to pay the bill, so we can live on their pharma.

So there simply will not be pharma for the masses. Pharma will be only for the rich elite.

That's what is going to happen.

And as far as education, maybe you missed it, but all the best schools in the world today, are all in the US. Go look at any list of the top 50 universities... the vast majority by far, are all in the US.

So which do you want... crap education that is free, or the best education that costs money?

Now that is changing, as universities have become more and more funded by government, the more they have started sucking. And this has filtered into private universities. I think some day, we'll have more people leaving the US for education, than those coming to the US for education. But as it stands today, we still have the highest quality higher education in the world... and that's because it is mostly private.

As far as health care in general, we have the highest quality care in the US. Canadians routinely come to the US for care.

US has the best schools but are only accessible to those that can afford it. Also the US in general scores badly when it comes to education compared to other developed nations. Europeans in general are well educated compared to americans, healthier also and most importantly better informed.

Europe cant take care of itself, we are there because we want and because it makes money for the arm contractors....we dont give a crap about any nation we just in it to benefit the few back home.

Americans deserve better, they pay trillions for useless arm bases, wars, elections, golf trips and so much more....while denied safety nets, decent health care....

What makes it sad, they brainwashed the masses to beleive that they dont deserve a decent health care, safety and accessible education.

You are the one brainwashed. Why do you 'deserve' health care? Why? What makes you think you are even remotely 'due' anything?

de•serve dĭ-zûrv′
►

• transitive verb
  To be worthy of; merit: synonym: earn.

Do you see the synonym? Earn. What have you done that has "earned" you health care? What did you do? And the answer is nothing. I'll tell you what you earned. You earned the money you were paid, for the labor you engaged in. And with that money you can pay for health care... and that is when you deserve it.

Thomas Sowell. Read his biography. He came from a poor, and broken home, and went to an Ivy League school. You can earn an education. You can work a job, and pay for it. I know many who have. I myself worked through college.

Europeans are Healthier... and they are not legalizing drugs which make them unhealthy. Stop supporting unhealthy lifestyles... which basically is everything the left-wing supports.

Europeans are better educated.... at the K-12 level, which our government run crap schools are the cause of. They are not more educated at the college and university level. That's why many come to the US for higher education.

When you look at K-12 in European systems, they operate almost the complete opposite of how we do. Schools compete with each other. Low skill teachers are paid much less than US teachers. And high skill teachers are paid more than US teachers. The exact opposite of what the Teachers Unions have done in the US.

They also have no ideal of equality. If you don't keep up with your fellow students, you are removed. If you have behavior problems, you are removed. There is no equality. Losers, lose, and are left behind. Winners, win, and are promoted. In Finland, if you can't pass the entrance exam for high school, you simply don't go to high school.

Additionally, in Finland, and many other countries, they have a very open policy on alternative schools. Charter schools, religious schools, and corporation run schools, all are openly available to people.

This is one of my pet peeves with left-wingers. You look at Europe and the few things they do right, and then say the US system sucks and needs to be more like Europe.... but then you spin right around and oppose every policy that is like Europe.

And lastly, fun fact, the US spends more money per student, than any other nation on the face of the Earth (last I read which was a few years back). So we are spending the most money, and getting mediocre results. We've done education your way, the Democrat way, for decades. If you don't like how bad the school system is, you have only your mirror to blame. Time to vote Conservative, and get a new plan in place.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

[Q


That's exactly it. The plan was for Democrat voters like shelf stockers and car wash workers. What they wanted 1/3 of my net pay cost them about 50 bucks a month.

What is despicable is the real intent of that filthy ass Obamacare.

It wasn't about poor people having no access to health care. There are plenty of plans on the Federal, State and Local level to provide health care for the indigent.

It was all about establishing an entitlement for the welfare queens to have the same insurance coverage as the paying customers.

Obama's demented plan was to put the filthy Democrat voting welfare queen in the same doctor's office as the paying people, instead of the county clinic.

Once the entitlement was establish it would be easier to jump to the next step of the despicable full blown socialized medicine where the government taxed the shit out of the productive people to pay for the sorry ass welfare queens.

The commies knew that employers would start dropping their coverage for employees with his nonsense. The plan was to make as many new government dependents as possible. Get working people thrown off their work plan, and make them buy their own government plan with after tax money.

Very successful too. Between Commie Care and SNAP's, DumBama created 40 million more government dependents. Worked out almost as good as they planned.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Healthcare is rationed everywhere only the method of rationing varies. In the US we tend ration by the patients ability to pay.

And even then, you don't get out to the front of the line. I was once referred to a cardiologist (for what turned out actually to be a pinched nerve). Wait time: 5 months.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

No, they haven't. The government meddling and trying to control the free market caused the mess,

Absurd horseshit. As evidenced by the lower per capita spends ng and better health outcomes in every morning seen, developed country with universal healthcare. As evidenced by the astronomical costs on the USA for the same services, as compared to every other country on the planet. Get that bullshit out of here.

 

[Flopper]

I believe it was Einstein who said, only a fool would expect the entity that created a problem to find a solution to it.

Right, and for profit corporations have caused our mess. So leaving the solution to them is a terrible idea.

No, they haven't. The government meddling and trying to control the free market caused the mess, aided and abetted by fools like you who understand nothing but preach as if you know all.

I hope you are not trying to tell us that there is a free market in healthcare. When doctors and hospitals started accepting insurance, it was the beginning of the end of the free market in healthcare. However, those good old days when only those that could afford healthcare got it and the rest did without is gone forever.

 

[Bo Didleysquat]

Mylan doesn’t bring new drugs to market. They’re a genetic manufacturer. They purchase other companies and acquire their business; which is a really good way of driving down the net profit. Their gross profit is 30-40%.

still have to test it against all probabilities. do you know those costs? Or the time it takes? or what do you do when you fail? All the things no one thinks of when complaining about costs. you all have no idea.

Sacrificing human beings for profit is the idea. Worked in pharma for 26 years, you?

they sacrifice animals. Ask Peta.

Like I said popeye, don't need to ask, worked in the industry.

doesn't mean shit olive oil

I've seen that, nothing means anything to you.

 

[Bo Didleysquat]

Nope, number of uninsured went down during Obama's presidency and is going back up under Trump.

Under Trump, the number of uninsured Americans has gone up by 7 million

So it went from 10.9 to 13.7? Obviously 2.8 million decided they don’t want insurance once the gun was removed from their heads.

Decided they don't want insurance? Who the fuck does that? If you read the article you'd see that those who have shitty poor paying jobs are the ones losing insurance.

yes decided not to have insurance. why is that difficult for you? please, are you thinking you know everybody? and you posted a laughing meme. well

The reason people would lose or give up their insurance is due to cost. I don't see millions of people saying "gee, today I just don't want health insurance". Idiot.

then you know not what you're discussing.

You're aware I'm sure that health insurance in Americas was once nonprofit?


Insurance policy
How an industry shifted from protecting patients to seeking profit


The United States spends almost 20 percent of its gross domestic product on health care, and if we want to reduce that, Rosenthal argues, we’re all going to have to be more like Jeffrey Kivi. Rosenthal, editor-in-chief of Kaiser Health News, itemizes the ills that have befallen health care, including opaque and inequitable pricing, perverse financial incentives and an ethos of putting profits before patients. She then writes a prescription for reform, including short-term strategies to reduce costs and long-term policy goals.

In this excerpt, Rosenthal explains how the transformation of the United States’ health care economy began: with the creation of insurance companies and their evolution into for-profit entities.

The very idea of health insurance is in some ways the original sin that catalyzed the evolution of today’s medical-industrial complex.

The people who founded the Blue Cross Association in Texas nearly a century ago had no idea how their innovation would spin out of control. They intended it to help the sick. And, in the beginning, it did.

How health insurance changed from protecting patients to seeking profit

 

[jc456]

still have to test it against all probabilities. do you know those costs? Or the time it takes? or what do you do when you fail? All the things no one thinks of when complaining about costs. you all have no idea.

Sacrificing human beings for profit is the idea. Worked in pharma for 26 years, you?

they sacrifice animals. Ask Peta.

Like I said popeye, don't need to ask, worked in the industry.

doesn't mean shit olive oil

I've seen that, nothing means anything to you.

I can smell bullshit.

 

[jc456]

So it went from 10.9 to 13.7? Obviously 2.8 million decided they don’t want insurance once the gun was removed from their heads.

Decided they don't want insurance? Who the fuck does that? If you read the article you'd see that those who have shitty poor paying jobs are the ones losing insurance.

yes decided not to have insurance. why is that difficult for you? please, are you thinking you know everybody? and you posted a laughing meme. well

The reason people would lose or give up their insurance is due to cost. I don't see millions of people saying "gee, today I just don't want health insurance". Idiot.

then you know not what you're discussing.

You're aware I'm sure that health insurance in Americas was once nonprofit?


Insurance policy
How an industry shifted from protecting patients to seeking profit


The United States spends almost 20 percent of its gross domestic product on health care, and if we want to reduce that, Rosenthal argues, we’re all going to have to be more like Jeffrey Kivi. Rosenthal, editor-in-chief of Kaiser Health News, itemizes the ills that have befallen health care, including opaque and inequitable pricing, perverse financial incentives and an ethos of putting profits before patients. She then writes a prescription for reform, including short-term strategies to reduce costs and long-term policy goals.

In this excerpt, Rosenthal explains how the transformation of the United States’ health care economy began: with the creation of insurance companies and their evolution into for-profit entities.

The very idea of health insurance is in some ways the original sin that catalyzed the evolution of today’s medical-industrial complex.

The people who founded the Blue Cross Association in Texas nearly a century ago had no idea how their innovation would spin out of control. They intended it to help the sick. And, in the beginning, it did.

How health insurance changed from protecting patients to seeking profit

from your link, here is a comment that I've been saying since I joined this board. Here it is in your link,

"A hundred years ago medical treatments were basic, cheap and not terribly effective. Often run by religious charities, hospitals were places where people mostly went to die. “Care,” such as it was, was delivered at dispensaries by doctors or quacks for minimal fees"

I grow tired of people calling me a liar for my comment. Well here it is from your link. Fk all of you in here who ever called me a liar.

Here another excerpt,

"The archetype for today’s insurance plans was developed at Baylor University Medical Center in Dallas, Texas (now part of Baylor Scott & White Health, since it merged with another health system in 2013, forming a giant health care conglomerate), which was founded in 1903 in a 14-room mansion by the Baptist Church. A devout cattleman provided the initial $50,000 in funding to open what was then called the Texas Baptist Memorial Sanitarium, “a great humanitarian hospital.” "

 

[Cecilie1200]

No, they haven't. The government meddling and trying to control the free market caused the mess,

Absurd horseshit. As evidenced by the lower per capita spends ng and better health outcomes in every morning seen, developed country with universal healthcare. As evidenced by the astronomical costs on the USA for the same services, as compared to every other country on the planet. Get that bullshit out of here.

Yeah, yeah. "Better health outcomes! Just look at this statistic that has nothing to do with healthcare systems! BELIEVE ME instead of the dozens of times I've been debunked!"

*snore* Not going through this BS again, since we both know that you just ignore the existence of facts that contradict your dogma.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I believe it was Einstein who said, only a fool would expect the entity that created a problem to find a solution to it.

Right, and for profit corporations have caused our mess. So leaving the solution to them is a terrible idea.

No, they haven't. The government meddling and trying to control the free market caused the mess, aided and abetted by fools like you who understand nothing but preach as if you know all.

I hope you are not trying to tell us that there is a free market in healthcare. When doctors and hospitals started accepting insurance, it was the beginning of the end of the free market in healthcare. However, those good old days when only those that could afford healthcare got it and the rest did without is gone forever.

"I hope you are not trying to tell me something that's the complete opposite of what you said, but which I'd much rather argue against than your actual words."

Tell you what, Flop. Go back, read my post, and either show me where I said we had a free market in healthcare, or address my actual words. Straw men aren't worth my time, which means you aren't worth my time while you're building them.

 

[jc456]

So it went from 10.9 to 13.7? Obviously 2.8 million decided they don’t want insurance once the gun was removed from their heads.

Decided they don't want insurance? Who the fuck does that? If you read the article you'd see that those who have shitty poor paying jobs are the ones losing insurance.

yes decided not to have insurance. why is that difficult for you? please, are you thinking you know everybody? and you posted a laughing meme. well

The reason people would lose or give up their insurance is due to cost. I don't see millions of people saying "gee, today I just don't want health insurance". Idiot.

then you know not what you're discussing.

You're aware I'm sure that health insurance in Americas was once nonprofit?


Insurance policy
How an industry shifted from protecting patients to seeking profit


The United States spends almost 20 percent of its gross domestic product on health care, and if we want to reduce that, Rosenthal argues, we’re all going to have to be more like Jeffrey Kivi. Rosenthal, editor-in-chief of Kaiser Health News, itemizes the ills that have befallen health care, including opaque and inequitable pricing, perverse financial incentives and an ethos of putting profits before patients. She then writes a prescription for reform, including short-term strategies to reduce costs and long-term policy goals.

In this excerpt, Rosenthal explains how the transformation of the United States’ health care economy began: with the creation of insurance companies and their evolution into for-profit entities.

The very idea of health insurance is in some ways the original sin that catalyzed the evolution of today’s medical-industrial complex.

The people who founded the Blue Cross Association in Texas nearly a century ago had no idea how their innovation would spin out of control. They intended it to help the sick. And, in the beginning, it did.

How health insurance changed from protecting patients to seeking profit

Thank you for the link. I enjoyed the read. My employer just moved off of BCBS of CA to Anthem Blue Cross CA. It was enlightening to read why we did that.

 

[Flopper]

I believe it was Einstein who said, only a fool would expect the entity that created a problem to find a solution to it.

Right, and for profit corporations have caused our mess. So leaving the solution to them is a terrible idea.

No, they haven't. The government meddling and trying to control the free market caused the mess, aided and abetted by fools like you who understand nothing but preach as if you know all.

I hope you are not trying to tell us that there is a free market in healthcare. When doctors and hospitals started accepting insurance, it was the beginning of the end of the free market in healthcare. However, those good old days when only those that could afford healthcare got it and the rest did without is gone forever.

"I hope you are not trying to tell me something that's the complete opposite of what you said, but which I'd much rather argue against than your actual words."

Tell you what, Flop. Go back, read my post, and either show me where I said we had a free market in healthcare, or address my actual words. Straw men aren't worth my time, which means you aren't worth my time while you're building them.

When you said, "The government meddling and trying to control the free market caused the mess,..." you were certainly implying a free market existed.

 

[jc456]

I believe it was Einstein who said, only a fool would expect the entity that created a problem to find a solution to it.

Right, and for profit corporations have caused our mess. So leaving the solution to them is a terrible idea.

No, they haven't. The government meddling and trying to control the free market caused the mess, aided and abetted by fools like you who understand nothing but preach as if you know all.

I hope you are not trying to tell us that there is a free market in healthcare. When doctors and hospitals started accepting insurance, it was the beginning of the end of the free market in healthcare. However, those good old days when only those that could afford healthcare got it and the rest did without is gone forever.

"I hope you are not trying to tell me something that's the complete opposite of what you said, but which I'd much rather argue against than your actual words."

Tell you what, Flop. Go back, read my post, and either show me where I said we had a free market in healthcare, or address my actual words. Straw men aren't worth my time, which means you aren't worth my time while you're building them.

When you said, "The government meddling and trying to control the free market caused the mess,..." you were certainly implying a free market existed.

and that the government was trying to remove it. why did you avoid that fact?

 

[Cecilie1200]

I believe it was Einstein who said, only a fool would expect the entity that created a problem to find a solution to it.

Right, and for profit corporations have caused our mess. So leaving the solution to them is a terrible idea.

No, they haven't. The government meddling and trying to control the free market caused the mess, aided and abetted by fools like you who understand nothing but preach as if you know all.

I hope you are not trying to tell us that there is a free market in healthcare. When doctors and hospitals started accepting insurance, it was the beginning of the end of the free market in healthcare. However, those good old days when only those that could afford healthcare got it and the rest did without is gone forever.

"I hope you are not trying to tell me something that's the complete opposite of what you said, but which I'd much rather argue against than your actual words."

Tell you what, Flop. Go back, read my post, and either show me where I said we had a free market in healthcare, or address my actual words. Straw men aren't worth my time, which means you aren't worth my time while you're building them.

When you said, "The government meddling and trying to control the free market caused the mess,..." you were certainly implying a free market existed.

How exactly do you think people got medical care prior to the invention of modern health insurance, which only dates back to 1929 (and was invented by a private-sector contract between a group of teachers and Baylor Hospital in Dallas)?

Be that as it may, the government has inserted itself into health care every chance it can find and strangled any attempt to move toward a free market. So telling me that we have to have government interference because we have government interference is not a good argument.

 

[Bo Didleysquat]

Sacrificing human beings for profit is the idea. Worked in pharma for 26 years, you?

they sacrifice animals. Ask Peta.

Like I said popeye, don't need to ask, worked in the industry.

doesn't mean shit olive oil

I've seen that, nothing means anything to you.

I can smell bullshit.

Check your nostrils.