Zone1 We need a left vs. right experiment

[Zincwarrior]

Protip. Your kids aren't moving to oklahoma, Mississippi, Kentucky, Arkansas, Alabama, and West Virginia.

 

[Bitterhook]

Protip. Your kids aren't moving to oklahoma, Mississippi, Kentucky, Arkansas, Alabama, and West Virginia.

Nor Delaware, Maine, Rhode Island, Montana, Alaska, Wyoming, New Hampshire, or Vermont.
The list would include others like North Dakota and South Dakota, but a recent uptick is fossil fuels reserves there have caused at least a temporary increase in population.

 

[Stryder50]

Uh, dude, I was in the army for 11 years.

My MOS? 76Y - Supply Specialist/Armorer.

Eventually got promoted to Supply NCO for my unit.

Suffice to say I've touched a lot of firearms.

And I know that the kinds of weapons I handled have no business being in civilian hands, just because you put a lock on the firing selector to keep it from firing fully automatic (which any fool with a file could get around.)

 

[Stryder50]

Actually, no, it really doesn't. If it did, you could own a machine gun or a howitzer. But the Supreme Court puts specific limits on what kind of "arms" you can have.



Actually, quite the contrary, most Americans favor stricter gun laws.

Key facts about Americans and guns

About six-in-ten U.S. adults (58%) favor stricter gun laws. Another 26% say that U.S. gun laws are about right, while 15% favor less strict gun laws.

www.pewresearch.org

That number would be higher if Americans realized just how lax our gun laws are. But Americans, being kind of stupid, don't put it together that when Joker Holmes shoots up a theater, it was because our gun laws were lax enough to allow him to do it.



Uh, guy, here's the thing.

You've got your little gun, which no doubt makes you feel better about your "shortcomings".

The government has tanks. They have bombers. They have missiles.

Ask David Koresh how that works out.

My "little gun" and Concealed Pistol License makes me feel better if I have to defend myself and family/those with me from gang of thugs* to those who have arms, illegally, that might try to assault me.

*"thugs" includes those leftist antifa rioters and looters your sort support and approve of.

 

[Bitterhook]

View attachment 1198792

I was in the US Army long enough to know that there were/are some fascist pieces of shit and progressive liberals like Joe in the Army, as well as every branch of the military.

There were/are quite a few 'doves' in the ranks from the top to the bottom, but fortunately they don't really amount to much and we can still maintain and adequate fighting force even with those nitwits on board. It would be nicer and more effective if they weren't there, but they are.

I believe Joe's claim of being in the Army, and I think of a particular piece of shit I remember named Elder, just about every time he posts.

 

[JoeB131]

Background checks
NICS
Assorted state laws on "waiting periods" and legal restrictions, etc.
There are systems that seek to prevent firearms from the wrong hands, but like any laws, there are those willing to break such.

Considering the larger number of deaths annually from motor vehicles, I'd rather see more restrictions on who can own and drive such.

Problem is we can't really get by without cars.

We can do just fine without guns. Most of the world does.

The reason why background checks and NCIS don't work is that they are designed not to work.

The gun industry doesn't want to keep guns out of the hands of bad guys. Quite the contrary, the more bad guys who have guns, the more people like you will want them, too.

 

[Stryder50]

Problem is we can't really get by without cars.

We can do just fine without guns. Most of the world does.

The reason why background checks and NCIS don't work is that they are designed not to work.

The gun industry doesn't want to keep guns out of the hands of bad guys. Quite the contrary, the more bad guys who have guns, the more people like you will want them, too.

Most of the world lives in tyranny and/or fear of those who do have guns.

You don't keep up with global news much do you "joe fibber".
For that matter you don't keep up with local news~crimes either.

BTW, at my age I "might" be able to 'kung fu' a single attacker, but more than one ???
Just brandishing a pistol can often be enough to dissuade a thug.

FWIW, the 2nd states "bear arms" and while I used to be a fairly good fencer; foil, epee, etc.; those are a bit awkward to carry, especially concealed. Not to mention their short range.

 

[dblack]

Most of the world lives in tyranny and/or fear of those who do have guns.

We're certainly moving in that direction.

 

[JoeB131]

Anyone who has done any historical studies whatsoever knows that the "militia" is "the people".
That's me.
And, unfortunately, you.

Um, no. We don't have "militias" anymore, because the concept of a militia (a bunch of idiots showing up with guns in a crisis) doesn't work. This is why they've been replaced with professional police forces and the National Guard.

So why do we need a vestigal "right to bear arms" if we are never going to call up a Militia?

I agree they shouldn't have guns. But preventing ME from having one isn't the answer. There is only one way to ensure near- "safety": a goose-stepping totalitarian regime.
No thanks, pal.

Every other Advanced Democracy either bans guns or limits who can get them, and they have more freedom than we do.

Exactly how free are we in a country of metal detectors, security guards, and Active Shooter Drills because a small minority are insecure enough to want something they aren't really trained to handle?

You're another leftist elitist. You think you're better than everybody. That only you have the wisdom to make judgments on people.
You concentrate on the actions of a few wack jobs instead of the big picture, which is freedom from a totalitarian regime.
Typical of the Left.

Except guns don't make us freer. No country has slid into totalitarianism without the enthusiastic support of the people. Shit, if Trump suspended the Constitution tomorrow, I suspect you and the other wing-nuts would be cheering him on.

At no point in time did I ever suggest that fascist pieces of shit like you have not been successful in bastardizing the US Constitution to a shameful point of disregard, and most often through an abuse of the courts, because you would never get what you wanted if you attempted to acquire it properly.

Except that lots of states and municipalities HAVE passed common sense Gun laws, and the National Rifle Association has run right to the courts and whined, "They won't let me have my gun!!!"

 

[JoeB131]

My "little gun" and Concealed Pistol License makes me feel better if I have to defend myself and family/those with me from gang of thugs* to those who have arms, illegally, that might try to assault me.

*"thugs" includes those leftist antifa rioters and looters your sort support and approve of.

Except a gun in the home is 43 times more likely to kill a family member than a bad guy.

Most of the world lives in tyranny and/or fear of those who do have guns.

You don't keep up with global news much do you "joe fibber".

I wasn't talking about "most of the world", I was talking about the free world.

Most of Europe and Japan- No guns. they don't need them. They have less crime, less murder than we do. By a lot.

 

[Bitterhook]

Problem is we can't really get by without cars.

The problem is that people don't know how to properly limit the federal government with the basic understanding that withe freedom and liberty comes the need for personal responsibility.

The problem includes the authoritarian fascist pieces of shit and progressive liberals who are willing to trade our freedom and liberty, while pretending and calling themselves liberals, making all kinds of excuses to ignore our founding principles, while at same time thinking they are making sense, when all they want to do is rob the people of their power in order to create a ruling class that can trample all over our rights.

That endangers the peoples' ability to ever effective maintain control over even our basic rights to freedom, liberty, and property. That is always conducted through empowering the federal government, leveraging the opinions of people not in your community, and using governmental overreach and the courts to achieve that through laws.

I should add that Modern Conservatives are not much better, and that as a true Liberal, I am even more Conservative than they are when it comes to empowering the federal government in order to create an imaginary Utopia.

 

[Stryder50]

Except a gun in the home is 43 times more likely to kill a family member than a bad guy.


I wasn't talking about "most of the world", I was talking about the free world.

Most of Europe and Japan- No guns. they don't need them. They have less crime, less murder than we do. By a lot.

Yet they still have crime and violence against citizens, and not that much lesser than we do.
Thing is their citizens have little to defend themselves with.
We have more freedoms here and that seems to allow more crimes.
However, there about a million or more crimes prevented each year by armed citizens here.

 

[JoeB131]

I was in the US Army long enough to know that there were/are some fascist pieces of shit and progressive liberals like Joe in the Army, as well as every branch of the military.

There were/are quite a few 'doves' in the ranks from the top to the bottom, but fortunately they don't really amount to much and we can still maintain and adequate fighting force even with those nitwits on board. It would be nicer and more effective if they weren't there, but they are.

I believe Joe's claim of being in the Army, and I think of a particular piece of shit I remember named Elder, just about every time he posts.

Actually, when I was in, I was a lot more conservative than I am now.

It's the years SINCE the military that has made me more progressive. That, and the Republicans have completely lost their minds since the 1980s.

I'm not a dove. I am all for using military force when it is necessary.

Blowing up fishing boats in the Caribbean isn't necessary.

Invading Iraq looking for weapons that aren't there isn't necessary.

And we aren't safer with Joker Holmes waiting for the Militia to muster.

 

[progressive hunter]

Except a gun in the home is 43 times more likely to kill a family member than a bad guy.


I wasn't talking about "most of the world", I was talking about the free world.

Most of Europe and Japan- No guns. they don't need them. They have less crime, less murder than we do. By a lot.

whats 43 times of zero??

I know thousands of people with guns and not a single person in their families has been killed with a gun let alone their own gun,,

your brain is so rotted you will believe anything they tell you,,

and even if they had been you aint getting our guns without killing us first,,

OH WAIT,, is that what you mean, youre going to kill people with guns so you can take them away??

 

[progressive hunter]

Actually, when I was in, I was a lot more conservative than I am now.

It's the years SINCE the military that has made me more progressive. That, and the Republicans have completely lost their minds since the 1980s.

I'm not a dove. I am all for using military force when it is necessary.

Blowing up fishing boats in the Caribbean isn't necessary.

Invading Iraq looking for weapons that aren't there isn't necessary.

And we aren't safer with Joker Holmes waiting for the Militia to muster.

fishing boats??

 

[Bitterhook]

Except that lots of states and municipalities HAVE passed common sense Gun laws, and the National Rifle Association has run right to the courts and whined, "They won't let me have my gun!!!"

I don't have any problem with my state's gun laws, and the firearms protections the people in my state voted for with a somewhat recent amendment to our state constitution, is far more precise and favorable to the peoples' rights to own firearms than the US Constitution (at least when nitwit like you want to try and interpret it)

That amendment to our state constitution passed with a 78% approval from the people.
So, stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

 

[progressive hunter]

I don't have any problem with my state's gun laws, and the firearms protections the people in my state voted for with a somewhat recent amendment to our state constitution, is far more precise and favorable to the peoples' rights to own firearms than the US Constitution (at least when nitwit like you want to try and interpret it)

That amendment to our state constitution passed with a 78% approval from the people.
So, stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

so you dont support the constitution of the united states??

 

[JoeB131]

Yet they still have crime and violence against citizens, and not that much lesser than we do.
Thing is their citizens have little to defend themselves with.
We have more freedoms here and that seems to allow more crimes.
However, there about a million or more crimes prevented each year by armed citizens here.

Ah, the mythical Defensive Gun Use.

here's the thing with that argument.

According to the FBI, there are only 200 justifiable homicides a year by civilians with guns. So you gun fetishist would have us believe there are a million times a year that you can prevent a crime with a gun, and you can fulfill your fantasy of shooting a darkie...er, I mean a 'bad guy'. But 99.9998% of the time, you don't do it.

What guns do make it easy if for criminals to commit crimes, and this is NOT a problem they have in Europe or Japan. Worse, a gun in the home makes it easier for that argument over a silly domestic issue to turn into a tragedy.

 

[Bitterhook]

Actually, when I was in, I was a lot more conservative than I am now.

It's the years SINCE the military that has made me more progressive. That, and the Republicans have completely lost their minds since the 1980s.

I'm not a dove. I am all for using military force when it is necessary.

Blowing up fishing boats in the Caribbean isn't necessary.

Invading Iraq looking for weapons that aren't there isn't necessary.

And we aren't safer with Joker Holmes waiting for the Militia to muster.

The best I can say is that I understand you Joe, and we simply do not agree in regard to the limits our founders intended to place on the federal government in order for us to actually enjoy and exercise our liberties and freedom.

But then again, I am a Liberal, and not an authoritarian fascist piece of shit, that wants to establish a ruling class in Washington DC and rob the people of any power they may actually have.

 

[Bitterhook]

so you dont support the constitution of the united states??

Of course I support the US Constitution, and there is nothing in our state constitution's amendment that is in conflict with the Second Amendment of our US Constitution.

Our state's amendment was just written on a third-grade level, so the stupid motherfuckers that might think they could just try and make it mean something else, by twisting up the language and pretending it meant something other than what it does, wouldn't have a snowballs chance in hell of being successful at that.

And the US Constitution gives the States the right to do that for clarification, in the 10th Amendment as long as it doesn't violate the US Constitution, and it doesn't.

It was challenged in the State Supreme Court after it passed, and they upheld the amendment.
Didn't go any further than that, and I have no intent to take it to the US Supreme Court so I can rob the peoples' power and tell people in other states what they should do.