Zone1 We need a left vs. right experiment

[JoeB131]

You talk to President Trump, I am by no means his boy.
The only reality as that you still cannot pretend the Second Amendment doesn't exist.

When the Second Amendment was written and ratified, a private citizen could own a fast-sailing ship with up to eight cannons.
Guess what, that wasn't for ******* hunting deer nor target practice at the range.

Okay, let's look at that argument. Back in the day, they let PRIVATEERS own armed ships, because it was a government policy to allow ships to go raiding against the shipping of other countries.

Today, you can't own an armed ship. Why? Because the "Militia" is "Well-Regulated" now. There's no military need for a private citizen to have an armed boat. Just like I can't own a howitzer to terrorize my neighbors.

There's not a military need for Joker Holmes to be able to own an assault rifle and shoot down a bunch of people watching an awful Batman movie.

 

[JoeB131]

Were you born hating America or did that come later?

How is being honest about our history "hating America"?

Only a child responds to valid criticism with, "WHY DO YOU HATE ME?"

Are you a child?

It would explain the levels of your postings.

 

[JoeB131]

Wikipedia is full of shit.
And so are you.
They're simply semi-automatic firearms, which have been around for over 100 years, but look "scary" because they're usually black.
Full auto guns are highly restricted. But the leftist media and people like you want to paint with the broad brush because sometimes they look very much alike.
Of course, you know shit about firearms because if you ever touched one, you'd piss your pants.
So leave it to those of who know WTF we're doing, okay?
And leave my goddam guns alone. If you want 'em, come and get 'em.

Uh, dude, I was in the army for 11 years.

My MOS? 76Y - Supply Specialist/Armorer.

Eventually got promoted to Supply NCO for my unit.

Suffice to say I've touched a lot of firearms.

And I know that the kinds of weapons I handled have no business being in civilian hands, just because you put a lock on the firing selector to keep it from firing fully automatic (which any fool with a file could get around.)

 

[Bitterhook]

'Averages don't count !'

Statewide numbers are an average of both blue and red localities within a state, so you would be saying that statewide numbers don't count.

 

[citygator]

Create 2 areas in states that happen to have space. Both are given equal resources. One area is governed by leftist Democrat morality, policy, and desired societal norms, the other is governed by the same on the right Conservative side.

I would love to watch the outcome (as a Conservative, I know which would completely fail)

Thread 'State Indicator That MAGA Governing Is A Failure: State Results From Unanimous Consensus'

Dec 27, 2025

The results of a MAGA government compared to an anti-MAGA government couldn't be more stark.

Only two states in the entire country voted unanimously for their presidential pick at the county level. It says quite a bit about the choices people are making for themselves and for the country when you look at those states and their results. The results of an entire state made up of MAGA supporters compared to a state made up of entirely of anti-MAGA supporters can easily be compared and contrasted below and the results are stunning. Oklahoma is...

• citygator
• Replies: 226
• Forum: Politics

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[Bitterhook]

Okay, let's look at that argument. Back in the day, they let PRIVATEERS own armed ships, because it was a government policy to allow ships to go raiding against the shipping of other countries.

Today, you can't own an armed ship. Why? Because the "Militia" is "Well-Regulated" now. There's no military need for a private citizen to have an armed boat. Just like I can't own a howitzer to terrorize my neighbors.

There's not a military need for Joker Holmes to be able to own an assault rifle and shoot down a bunch of people watching an awful Batman movie.

No one is asking you whether or not you like it or what you approve of, and the founders gave us the opportunity to shoot you in the face if you try to talk shit, infringe upon our rights, and take them away.

 

[sealybobo]

Create 2 areas in states that happen to have space. Both are given equal resources. One area is governed by leftist Democrat morality, policy, and desired societal norms, the other is governed by the same on the right Conservative side.

I would love to watch the outcome (as a Conservative, I know which would completely fail)

Your side would fail. All the manufacturing is done where all the people are. All the jobs are where all the people are. Big cities.

Sure, it would be wonderful if all of America was like Republican run small towns. We all know the towns. In Michigan they are up north. Small, in the country, lots of lakes, small towns. Beautiful. Everyone has a job. Kids have to leave to go to college and probably when they get their professional jobs. Some move home, some don't. But then the town wants to grow and starts luring in companies, factories, other business'. Soon it's a big town with lots of business'. Most of those jobs don't pay well. But people in bad communities here about these jobs in this nice small town but now your town is growing and it's poor people coming to work at Manards, Meijer, Tractor Supply Plus, etc. Who do you think is coming?

If you keep it small, you'll be fine. But don't let anyone in. You won't grow. And who will you sell your crops to? Will you start buying and selling to China again? You do realize you will lose your leverage with the rest of the world right?

And the beauty of America is that we can vote to go liberal, or Republican (yuck). But that's what's great about America. In your new states, you can only vote for conservative thinkers? Even when things start going wrong? You'll keep doing that? I bet you would because you wanted McCain to take over for GW Bush.

 

[JoeB131]

No one is asking you whether or not you like it or what you approve of, and the founders gave us the opportunity to shoot you in the face if you try to talk shit, infringe upon our rights, and take them away.

Until they don't.

Two SCOTUS appointments, and the Second is about Militias again.

 

[Bitterhook]

Until they don't.

Two SCOTUS appointments, and the Second is about Militias again.

It clearly identifies the People's right to bear arms shall not be infringed, and nowhere does it say that whoever JoeB or the Supreme Courts deems to be qualified as a regulated militia's right to bear arms shall not be infringed.

However, it is quite possible that two appointments to the Supreme Court could make a difference, and especially if they are anything like the last embarrassing appointment from the Biden Administration. And likewise, I can certainly understand why you would prefer a bastardized version of addressing any issue may you have through the courts, because if you pursued it properly and tried to amend the US Constitution you would lose the issue when it would go to the People for ratification.

However, it doesn't really worry me, because I know why the founders gave us the ability to defend ourselves and our rights, and that has nothing to do with your ******* opinion about anything.

 

[Lockback]

Uh, dude, I was in the army for 11 years.

My MOS? 76Y - Supply Specialist/Armorer.

Eventually got promoted to Supply NCO for my unit.

Suffice to say I've touched a lot of firearms.

And I know that the kinds of weapons I handled have no business being in civilian hands, just because you put a lock on the firing selector to keep it from firing fully automatic (which any fool with a file could get around.)

That's because you don't trust the citizentry. You think you're better than they are. And you have no respect for or understanding of the 2nd Amendment. You want to twist it to fit your own definition, the definition of the Leftist who wants only the government to own guns.
**** that shit, pal.

 

[JoeB131]

It clearly identifies the People's right to bear arms shall not be infringed, and nowhere does it say that whoever JoeB or the Supreme Courts deems to be qualified as a regulated militia's right to bear arms shall not be infringed.

No, it clearly identifies the need for a militia.

And for years, that's exactly how the courts interpreted it.

That's because you don't trust the citizentry. You think you're better than they are. And you have no respect for or understanding of the 2nd Amendment. You want to twist it to fit your own definition, the definition of the Leftist who wants only the government to own guns.
**** that shit, pal.

Um, yes, I don't trust Adam Lanza and Joker Holmes to have guns. I think letting them have guns is a pretty stupid idea.

But the bizarre interpretation of the Militia Amendment is that these crazy, unstable people should have a right to own a gun.

Even though no militia would ever take them as a member.

 

[Lockback]

How is being honest about our history "hating America"?

Only a child responds to valid criticism with, "WHY DO YOU HATE ME?"

Are you a child?

It would explain the levels of your postings.

The Left hates America.
Just look at the reactions to Donald Trump, to the open borders of the Biden era, the lawlessness in our cities, the crime, the false cries of "fascism!", etc. It's all bullshit, all of it anti-American to its core.
And you're part of it, child.

 

[Bitterhook]

No, it clearly identifies the need for a militia.

It does and you can stop arguing about that.
And it clearly identifies the "peoples" right to bear arms shall not be infringed.

 

[Stryder50]

Your side would fail. All the manufacturing is done where all the people are. All the jobs are where all the people are. Big cities.

Sure, it would be wonderful if all of America was like Republican run small towns. We all know the towns. In Michigan they are up north. Small, in the country, lots of lakes, small towns. Beautiful. Everyone has a job. Kids have to leave to go to college and probably when they get their professional jobs. Some move home, some don't. But then the town wants to grow and starts luring in companies, factories, other business'. Soon it's a big town with lots of business'. Most of those jobs don't pay well. But people in bad communities here about these jobs in this nice small town but now your town is growing and it's poor people coming to work at Manards, Meijer, Tractor Supply Plus, etc. Who do you think is coming?

If you keep it small, you'll be fine. But don't let anyone in. You won't grow. And who will you sell your crops to? Will you start buying and selling to China again? You do realize you will lose your leverage with the rest of the world right?

And the beauty of America is that we can vote to go liberal, or Republican (yuck). But that's what's great about America. In your new states, you can only vote for conservative thinkers? Even when things start going wrong? You'll keep doing that? I bet you would because you wanted McCain to take over for GW Bush.

Wealth Creators/Makers = Conservatives (Republican)
Wealth Takers/Redistributors = "liberals"/progressives (regressives)~Socialist(communist) Democrat

Without the conservative rural community growing the food, your large cities of leftist freeloaders will starve.

 

[JoeB131]

It clearly identifies the People's right to bear arms shall not be infringed, and nowhere does it say that whoever JoeB or the Supreme Courts deems to be qualified as a regulated militia's right to bear arms shall not be infringed.

Actually, no, it really doesn't. If it did, you could own a machine gun or a howitzer. But the Supreme Court puts specific limits on what kind of "arms" you can have.

However, it is quite possible that two appointments to the Supreme Court could make a difference, and especially if they are anything like the last embarrassing appointment from the Biden Administration. And likewise, I can certainly understand why you would prefer a bastardized version of addressing any issue may you have through the courts, because if you pursued it properly and tried to amend the US Constitution you would lose the issue when it would go to the People for ratification.

Actually, quite the contrary, most Americans favor stricter gun laws.

Key facts about Americans and guns

About six-in-ten U.S. adults (58%) favor stricter gun laws. Another 26% say that U.S. gun laws are about right, while 15% favor less strict gun laws.

www.pewresearch.org

That number would be higher if Americans realized just how lax our gun laws are. But Americans, being kind of stupid, don't put it together that when Joker Holmes shoots up a theater, it was because our gun laws were lax enough to allow him to do it.

However, it doesn't really worry me, because I know why the founders gave us the ability to defend ourselves and our rights, and that has nothing to do with your ******* opinion about anything.

Uh, guy, here's the thing.

You've got your little gun, which no doubt makes you feel better about your "shortcomings".

The government has tanks. They have bombers. They have missiles.

Ask David Koresh how that works out.

 

[JoeB131]

Wealth Creators/Makers = Conservatives (Republican)
Wealth Takers/Redistributors = "liberals"/progressives (regressives)~Socialist(communist) Democrat

Without the conservative rural community growing the food, your large cities of leftist freeloaders will starve.

Um, the "Conservative Rural Communities" rely on immigrant labor to grow that food, not the inbred freeloaders living in trailer parts with the Confederate Flag and the MAGA hat.

 

[Stryder50]

No, it clearly identifies the need for a militia.

And for years, that's exactly how the courts interpreted it.



Um, yes, I don't trust Adam Lanza and Joker Holmes to have guns. I think letting them have guns is a pretty stupid idea.

But the bizarre interpretation of the Militia Amendment is that these crazy, unstable people should have a right to own a gun.

Even though no militia would ever take them as a member.

Background checks
NICS
Assorted state laws on "waiting periods" and legal restrictions, etc.
There are systems that seek to prevent firearms from the wrong hands, but like any laws, there are those willing to break such.

Considering the larger number of deaths annually from motor vehicles, I'd rather see more restrictions on who can own and drive such.

 

[Lockback]

No, it clearly identifies the need for a militia.

And for years, that's exactly how the courts interpreted it.

Anyone who has done any historical studies whatsoever knows that the "militia" is "the people".
That's me.
And, unfortunately, you.

Um, yes, I don't trust Adam Lanza and Joker Holmes to have guns. I think letting them have guns is a pretty stupid idea.

I agree they shouldn't have guns. But preventing ME from having one isn't the answer. There is only one way to ensure near- "safety": a goose-stepping totalitarian regime.
No thanks, pal.

But the bizarre interpretation of the Militia Amendment is that these crazy, unstable people should have a right to own a gun.

Even though no militia would ever take them as a member.

You're another leftist elitist. You think you're better than everybody. That only you have the wisdom to make judgments on people.
You concentrate on the actions of a few wack jobs instead of the big picture, which is freedom from a totalitarian regime.
Typical of the Left.

 

[Bitterhook]

Actually, no, it really doesn't. If it did, you could own a machine gun or a howitzer. But the Supreme Court puts specific limits on what kind of "arms" you can have.



Actually, quite the contrary, most Americans favor stricter gun laws.

Key facts about Americans and guns

About six-in-ten U.S. adults (58%) favor stricter gun laws. Another 26% say that U.S. gun laws are about right, while 15% favor less strict gun laws.

www.pewresearch.org

That number would be higher if Americans realized just how lax our gun laws are. But Americans, being kind of stupid, don't put it together that when Joker Holmes shoots up a theater, it was because our gun laws were lax enough to allow him to do it.



Uh, guy, here's the thing.

You've got your little gun, which no doubt makes you feel better about your "shortcomings".

The government has tanks. They have bombers. They have missiles.

Ask David Koresh how that works out.

At no point in time did I ever suggest that fascist pieces of shit like you have not been successful in bastardizing the US Constitution to a shameful point of disregard, and most often through an abuse of the courts, because you would never get what you wanted if you attempted to acquire it properly.

 

[Stryder50]

Um, the "Conservative Rural Communities" rely on immigrant labor to grow that food, not the inbred freeloaders living in trailer parts with the Confederate Flag and the MAGA hat.

Um, the Urban Liberals rely on illegal* immigrant labor to do their cleaning and crap jobs, not the inbred freeloaders in the slums and BLM 'hoods.

* BTW "joe fibber", we're all "immigrants", or descendants of, in this land.
I live rural and know quite a few farmers who do the lion share of their own work. I bet you couldn't grow weeds to save your life.