Wayfair to pay $15 an hour minimum

[AzogtheDefiler]

It's Socialism for the markets.

Trillions for the markets but NO raise in the minimum wage for the working stiffs.

Who earns the minimum wage? The head of a household with one or two kids or a teenager/young person living at home? What is the typical household income of that minimum wage worker?

It's not difficult to find this info.

Low-wage Workers Are Older Than You Think: 88 Percent of Workers Who Would Benefit From a Higher Minimum Wage Are Older Than 20, One Third Are Over 40

If you’re earning minimum wage you have minimum marketable skill set.

So?

A man was making a good wage making widgets. The wife stayed home.

The widget manufacturer decides to off shore to Thailand. Now both have to go to work. Yeah, her skills are not up to date but all that's left is low wage jobs.

As long as we are going to continue to allow that I'm going to support those harmed.

If making widgets isn’t a marketable or transferable skill then it’s on you. Not my problem. I am Teaching my kids to garner marketable skills. So that if that happens you can find a job elsewhere

No it is not. You have no clue what will be marketable skills 25 years from now. You are just blowing smoke.

Of course I do. My dad has been an engineer for 40+ yrs. My wife has been in finance for 15+ and her boss for 35+. Same skillset. If you are proficient in a certain skill it translates. My contractor has been doing his job for 40 yrs.

There are very limited jobs for engineers. If you want every single person to prepare for the future and get an engineer degree then engineers will be paid minimum wage and nothing actually ever gets done.

Not true at all. In face the demand is outpacing the supply. Hence outsourcing is so huge and pay is so high. By Dad is 70 and wanted to retire and but is working because of demand and he likes what he does.

Because we don't have 250 million engineers. That is what you are arguing for.

Nope. We don’t have 250 million doctors either. You’re using extreme examples. Point is if you have a marketable skill you will find work in a stable economy

 

[pknopp]

It's Socialism for the markets.

Trillions for the markets but NO raise in the minimum wage for the working stiffs.

Who earns the minimum wage? The head of a household with one or two kids or a teenager/young person living at home? What is the typical household income of that minimum wage worker?

It's not difficult to find this info.

Low-wage Workers Are Older Than You Think: 88 Percent of Workers Who Would Benefit From a Higher Minimum Wage Are Older Than 20, One Third Are Over 40

If you’re earning minimum wage you have minimum marketable skill set.

So?

A man was making a good wage making widgets. The wife stayed home.

The widget manufacturer decides to off shore to Thailand. Now both have to go to work. Yeah, her skills are not up to date but all that's left is low wage jobs.

As long as we are going to continue to allow that I'm going to support those harmed.

If making widgets isn’t a marketable or transferable skill then it’s on you. Not my problem. I am Teaching my kids to garner marketable skills. So that if that happens you can find a job elsewhere

No it is not. You have no clue what will be marketable skills 25 years from now. You are just blowing smoke.

Of course I do. My dad has been an engineer for 40+ yrs. My wife has been in finance for 15+ and her boss for 35+. Same skillset. If you are proficient in a certain skill it translates. My contractor has been doing his job for 40 yrs.

There are very limited jobs for engineers. If you want every single person to prepare for the future and get an engineer degree then engineers will be paid minimum wage and nothing actually ever gets done.

Not true at all. In face the demand is outpacing the supply. Hence outsourcing is so huge and pay is so high. By Dad is 70 and wanted to retire and but is working because of demand and he likes what he does.

Because we don't have 250 million engineers. That is what you are arguing for.

Nope. We don’t have 250 million doctors either. You’re using extreme examples. Point is if you have a marketable skill you will find work in a stable economy

It was your example. There are only very limited opportunities for people with advanced degrees and if everyone had one there is no people to do the other work.

You know all of this though.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

It's Socialism for the markets.

Trillions for the markets but NO raise in the minimum wage for the working stiffs.

Who earns the minimum wage? The head of a household with one or two kids or a teenager/young person living at home? What is the typical household income of that minimum wage worker?

It's not difficult to find this info.

Low-wage Workers Are Older Than You Think: 88 Percent of Workers Who Would Benefit From a Higher Minimum Wage Are Older Than 20, One Third Are Over 40

If you’re earning minimum wage you have minimum marketable skill set.

So?

A man was making a good wage making widgets. The wife stayed home.

The widget manufacturer decides to off shore to Thailand. Now both have to go to work. Yeah, her skills are not up to date but all that's left is low wage jobs.

As long as we are going to continue to allow that I'm going to support those harmed.

If making widgets isn’t a marketable or transferable skill then it’s on you. Not my problem. I am Teaching my kids to garner marketable skills. So that if that happens you can find a job elsewhere

No it is not. You have no clue what will be marketable skills 25 years from now. You are just blowing smoke.

Of course I do. My dad has been an engineer for 40+ yrs. My wife has been in finance for 15+ and her boss for 35+. Same skillset. If you are proficient in a certain skill it translates. My contractor has been doing his job for 40 yrs.

There are very limited jobs for engineers. If you want every single person to prepare for the future and get an engineer degree then engineers will be paid minimum wage and nothing actually ever gets done.

Not true at all. In face the demand is outpacing the supply. Hence outsourcing is so huge and pay is so high. By Dad is 70 and wanted to retire and but is working because of demand and he likes what he does.

Because we don't have 250 million engineers. That is what you are arguing for.

Nope. We don’t have 250 million doctors either. You’re using extreme examples. Point is if you have a marketable skill you will find work in a stable economy

It was your example. There are only very limited opportunities for people with advanced degrees and if everyone had one there is no people to do the other work.

You know all of this though.

Not remotely. Before COVID we had more jobs than available people to work them so you saw wages rise and employers were battling for talent.

 

[pknopp]

It's Socialism for the markets.

Trillions for the markets but NO raise in the minimum wage for the working stiffs.

Who earns the minimum wage? The head of a household with one or two kids or a teenager/young person living at home? What is the typical household income of that minimum wage worker?

It's not difficult to find this info.

Low-wage Workers Are Older Than You Think: 88 Percent of Workers Who Would Benefit From a Higher Minimum Wage Are Older Than 20, One Third Are Over 40

If you’re earning minimum wage you have minimum marketable skill set.

So?

A man was making a good wage making widgets. The wife stayed home.

The widget manufacturer decides to off shore to Thailand. Now both have to go to work. Yeah, her skills are not up to date but all that's left is low wage jobs.

As long as we are going to continue to allow that I'm going to support those harmed.

If making widgets isn’t a marketable or transferable skill then it’s on you. Not my problem. I am Teaching my kids to garner marketable skills. So that if that happens you can find a job elsewhere

No it is not. You have no clue what will be marketable skills 25 years from now. You are just blowing smoke.

Of course I do. My dad has been an engineer for 40+ yrs. My wife has been in finance for 15+ and her boss for 35+. Same skillset. If you are proficient in a certain skill it translates. My contractor has been doing his job for 40 yrs.

There are very limited jobs for engineers. If you want every single person to prepare for the future and get an engineer degree then engineers will be paid minimum wage and nothing actually ever gets done.

Not true at all. In face the demand is outpacing the supply. Hence outsourcing is so huge and pay is so high. By Dad is 70 and wanted to retire and but is working because of demand and he likes what he does.

Because we don't have 250 million engineers. That is what you are arguing for.

Nope. We don’t have 250 million doctors either. You’re using extreme examples. Point is if you have a marketable skill you will find work in a stable economy

It was your example. There are only very limited opportunities for people with advanced degrees and if everyone had one there is no people to do the other work.

You know all of this though.

Not remotely. Before COVID we had more jobs than available people to work them so you saw wages rise and employers were battling for talent.

Wages are low.

For most U.S. workers, real wages have barely budged in decades

Despite some ups and downs over the past several decades, today's real average wage in the U.S. has about the same purchasing power it did 40 years ago. And most of what wage gains there have been have flowed to the highest-paid tier of workers.

www.pewresearch.org

 

[Markle]

It's Socialism for the markets.

Trillions for the markets but NO raise in the minimum wage for the working stiffs.

Who earns the minimum wage? The head of a household with one or two kids or a teenager/young person living at home? What is the typical household income of that minimum wage worker?

It's not difficult to find this info.

Low-wage Workers Are Older Than You Think: 88 Percent of Workers Who Would Benefit From a Higher Minimum Wage Are Older Than 20, One Third Are Over 40

I have the information on file. One third are over 40 which means that TWO-THIRDS are not.

Then why did you ask me? You'll also note, most are not teenagers.

How interesting, why did you ignore the FACTS I provided for you? You don't want the truth, do you? It conflicts with the image you are fed from the far left. Here, try again!

 

[pknopp]

It's Socialism for the markets.

Trillions for the markets but NO raise in the minimum wage for the working stiffs.

Who earns the minimum wage? The head of a household with one or two kids or a teenager/young person living at home? What is the typical household income of that minimum wage worker?

It's not difficult to find this info.

Low-wage Workers Are Older Than You Think: 88 Percent of Workers Who Would Benefit From a Higher Minimum Wage Are Older Than 20, One Third Are Over 40

I have the information on file. One third are over 40 which means that TWO-THIRDS are not.

Then why did you ask me? You'll also note, most are not teenagers.

How interesting, why did you ignore the FACTS I provided for you? You don't want the truth, do you? It conflicts with the image you are fed from the far left. Here, try again!

I do NOT care what the "demographics" of who those struggling are. It matters none to me.

 

[Markle]

It's Socialism for the markets.

Trillions for the markets but NO raise in the minimum wage for the working stiffs.

Who earns the minimum wage? The head of a household with one or two kids or a teenager/young person living at home? What is the typical household income of that minimum wage worker?

It's not difficult to find this info.

Low-wage Workers Are Older Than You Think: 88 Percent of Workers Who Would Benefit From a Higher Minimum Wage Are Older Than 20, One Third Are Over 40

If you’re earning minimum wage you have minimum marketable skill set.

So?

A man was making a good wage making widgets. The wife stayed home.

The widget manufacturer decides to off shore to Thailand. Now both have to go to work. Yeah, her skills are not up to date but all that's left is low wage jobs.

As long as we are going to continue to allow that I'm going to support those harmed.

That's not true. When most women stayed home, our taxes were very low. As taxes increased, it became more and more difficult for a single wage earner to pay for all the necessities. More and more households needed additional income. With the additional income, government saw even more money they could use for their pet projects.

 

[Markle]

It's Socialism for the markets.

Trillions for the markets but NO raise in the minimum wage for the working stiffs.

Who earns the minimum wage? The head of a household with one or two kids or a teenager/young person living at home? What is the typical household income of that minimum wage worker?

It's not difficult to find this info.

Low-wage Workers Are Older Than You Think: 88 Percent of Workers Who Would Benefit From a Higher Minimum Wage Are Older Than 20, One Third Are Over 40

I have the information on file. One third are over 40 which means that TWO-THIRDS are not.

Then why did you ask me? You'll also note, most are not teenagers.

How interesting, why did you ignore the FACTS I provided for you? You don't want the truth, do you? It conflicts with the image you are fed from the far left. Here, try again!

I do NOT care what the "demographics" of who those struggling are. It matters none to me.

I'm sure that no one is surprised at your demand to remain ignorant. What frustrates you most is that there are not near as many struggling as you want to believe.

 

[pknopp]

It's Socialism for the markets.

Trillions for the markets but NO raise in the minimum wage for the working stiffs.

Who earns the minimum wage? The head of a household with one or two kids or a teenager/young person living at home? What is the typical household income of that minimum wage worker?

It's not difficult to find this info.

Low-wage Workers Are Older Than You Think: 88 Percent of Workers Who Would Benefit From a Higher Minimum Wage Are Older Than 20, One Third Are Over 40

If you’re earning minimum wage you have minimum marketable skill set.

So?

A man was making a good wage making widgets. The wife stayed home.

The widget manufacturer decides to off shore to Thailand. Now both have to go to work. Yeah, her skills are not up to date but all that's left is low wage jobs.

As long as we are going to continue to allow that I'm going to support those harmed.

That's not true. When most women stayed home, our taxes were very low. As taxes increased, it became more and more difficult for a single wage earner to pay for all the necessities. More and more households needed additional income. With the additional income, government saw even more money they could use for their pet projects.

Right, manufacturing never offshored. Sheesh.

 

[pknopp]

It's Socialism for the markets.

Trillions for the markets but NO raise in the minimum wage for the working stiffs.

Who earns the minimum wage? The head of a household with one or two kids or a teenager/young person living at home? What is the typical household income of that minimum wage worker?

It's not difficult to find this info.

Low-wage Workers Are Older Than You Think: 88 Percent of Workers Who Would Benefit From a Higher Minimum Wage Are Older Than 20, One Third Are Over 40

I have the information on file. One third are over 40 which means that TWO-THIRDS are not.

Then why did you ask me? You'll also note, most are not teenagers.

How interesting, why did you ignore the FACTS I provided for you? You don't want the truth, do you? It conflicts with the image you are fed from the far left. Here, try again!

I do NOT care what the "demographics" of who those struggling are. It matters none to me.

I'm sure that no one is surprised at your demand to remain ignorant.

It's irrelevant. I've discussed this endlessly.

 

[sealybobo]

We run this country. Better be nicer to us.

The ignorant run the country?

Sadly, you will soon.

The last time my side ran things unions represented 35% of the workforce. The middle class was never better. I don’t mean in us history I mean human history.

 

[sealybobo]

It's just silly to suggest people have not gotten a raise in 20 years

Do you know what inflation is? Our raises haven’t kept up with inflation. Meanwhile the CEO’s pay has quadrupled. He got a good raise. Your raise didn’t even keep up with inflation.

Raises wer not given out during the bush years and certa8nly weren’t given after his Great Recession. Remember? Slowest recovery ever? Not for the rich. They recovered nicely.

I got several raises in the Reagan, Bush I, Clinton, Bush II(the biggest raises), Obama and Trump. Maybe those people you knew that didn’t get raises should have smartened up and changed where they decided to worked.

Sealy is an ignorant leftist. Doesn't understand free markets. Don't waste your time.

I understand the difference between a employers market and an employees market.

I don’t want to hear about papags personal experience. I’m going by national averages. Fact is, labor is not doing as well as they did twenty years ago and CEOs are doing better than ever. That means employers are giving themselves big raises but not their employees.

If you want to talk about personal experience I got a $45,000 raise on Obama’s watch.

Again, free markets. Contractors and plumbers are doing better too. Hire a plumber now vs 10 yrs ago. Rates have nearly doubled. Free markets. Don’t want that plumber try to hire a cheaper one who is good. Free markets work. Sorry you don’t understand how. And you lie about your raise. You told me you only make $80k per yr

Again, there is no such thing as a free market. In Michigan you must hold a state license to work as a plumber. It’s regulated by the government. A truly free market I could do plumbing without having to jump through that hoop. Government sets the rules. I’m sure you would be ok with not requiring plumbers be licensed.

Ahhh....that is because of the bureaucrats but in their defense they don't want hacks without cred working on homes. Get your license and plumb away. You also should self insure. They are protecting the consumer. Not the same thing.

The middle class is the creation of government intervention in the marketplace. Liberal democracies created the middle class. The government for example passed a progressive tax. Free market cons want a flat tax. But we know a flat tax won’t work except for rich people. So our government set the rules. If corporations had their way they’d pay no taxes. Only employees and consumers would.

Government sets a minimum wage because free markets would pay $2 hr if they had the power.

Government allows labor to organize into unions. Unions are not free market capitalism. And unions brought wages up, not free market capitalismm.

Capitalism is the best ism but only when properly regulated by government.

#1) I support a flat tax based on %. How about a 25% tax and a 2% federal consumption tax. Rich people consume more and more expensive products so you kill two birds with one stone. Significantly reduce the IRS and simplify our overly complex tax code.

#2) You vilify the "rich people" why? Trevor Lawrence is a good guy now but once he signs his NFL contract he suddenly becomes evil because he is rich? Seems odd.

#3) Gov't should not set the min wage and free markets would pay what was necessary to provide the best goods and or services or go out of business. Raising the min wage to $15 creates an incentive to replace workers with machines. No sick days, no human errors, no health insurance. Many fast food places do that now.

#4) Gov't should interfere as little as possible IMO.

If a company can save money automating, they’re going to. Don’t threaten me that they will automate if we force them to pay a fair wage. They’ll automate eventually no matter what. And the people who they do employ will make good money.

How you going to force them to pay a fair wage? We all know $15 an hour is fair in Mississippi but in New York City it should be $35 an hour

Whatever solution I propose you'll just cry class warfare or call me a commie.

Honestly, I think it's up to two groups of workers to organize into unions. Walmart and McD employees.

Walmart is our largest employer. It used to be GM. GM could send jobs overseas. Walmart can't.

And if Walmart workers in Red states don't want to organize, they don't have to. Just don't ask for the same wages northern employees make. They earned that higher pay.

The problem is once again they don't want unions and two I gave you my two solutions

What's yours, I would like to hear them

1. Go after illegal employers. When they stop hiring illegal workers, Americans will no longer have to compete with illegals and pay will go up.

2. A tax on the mega rich

3. A law saying no ceo can make more than 200 or 300 times the average worker. Fortune 500 companies only. Big tax on companies who break the law.

4. tariff manufacturing if the product can be made in America.

5. Strenghten social security and Medicare.

6. Pro union policies

7. Stop legal immigration until wages go up

#1) I agree with that 100%. Democrats want to protect illegals and their kids. I don't. If I rob a bank and give the money to my kids but they don't know the money was garnered illegally, do they get to keep it?

#2) We do. I suggested a 2% federal consumption tax. Punishing success is stupid.

#3) You cannot do that to public and or private companies. It is the BOD and their call on compensation. I actually like that rule but it comes with a slippery slope.

#4) I am good with that. As are the Republicans. Democrats are not.

#5) Strengthen? How about we raise the retirement age to 75? How about we investigate fraud more thoroughly?

#6) I would abolish all unions. Baseball players don't need a union.

#7) I am good with that.

There you go again. You republicans always hate the highest paid workers in America. Do you think baseball players would make as much as they do if they didn’t have a union? So you wish the players made less and owners made more. I knew that already.

I am an Independent and distrust both parties. I think yes they would. Boxers don't have unions, they do very well. Supply and demand decides what baseball players make. Union of millionaires.

How come supply and demand didn’t work before unions? Al kaline was the highest player in the 60s he made a whopping $100k. Gordy Howe was grossly underpaid too.

Don be mad that these workers are worth millions and you are not. Thats jealousy

Back then salaries were lower. Rudy Gobert makes way more than Shaq ever made. Changing of the times.

You missed the point. Howard stern just signed a huge contract. One news broadcaster or tv personality scoffed at why Howard should make so much.

That mentality is fucked up. Rather than see union workers got pensions and say I want that too, you said they shouldn’t get pensions because you dont. You’re a hater when it comes to employees making a lot but ok with out of control ceo pay and golden parachutes.

 

[sealybobo]

How come supply and demand didn’t work before unions? Al kaline was the highest player in the 60s he made a whopping $100k. Gordy Howe was grossly underpaid too.

Don be mad that these workers are worth millions and you are not. Thats jealousy

The NBA unionized in 1954, in 1965 Bill Russell and Wilt Chamberlin made a 100k, just like Al, so union members made 100k, non union members make 100k.

True. Unions probably protect the lowest paid players more than the highest

 

[Markle]

Wages are low.

For most U.S. workers, real wages have barely budged in decades

Despite some ups and downs over the past several decades, today's real average wage in the U.S. has about the same purchasing power it did 40 years ago. And most of what wage gains there have been have flowed to the highest-paid tier of workers.

www.pewresearch.org

So what?

Why should a worker's real wages increase if they are not doing anything more or less than they were twenty years ago? Why should anyone's lifestyle improve simply because they have gotten older and are doing the same as what they did twenty years ago? Keep up with inflation yes, which has happened.

As you know too, President Donald Trump is the first president in decades to increase low and middle-income workers and that of minorities more than other presidents in modern history. He also narrowed the income gap between low and high-income workers. But liberals can not allow those workers to see how easy it was to do. So, Trump was under constant attack. Democrats certainly can't allow their base to learn that they really can make their lives better on their own than government support.

This is even more true today.

Right, manufacturing never offshored. Sheesh.

That is your response to my statement (Markle). " That's not true. When most women stayed home, our taxes were very low. As taxes increased, it became more and more difficult for a single wage earner to pay for all the necessities. More and more households needed additional income. With the additional income, the government saw even more money they could use for their pet projects."

Please show us all where I said manufacturing was never offshored?

A prime example is our automotive industry. Unions had the auto industry by the short and curlies. It wasn't the CEOs who would lose anything by conceding to the demands of the unions. That sharply increased the cost of American autos. In addition to that, American manufacturers were arrogant and believed the American consumer was a captive market.

Then, as you know, Volkswagons began showing up and nearly became a fad. Honda started with small motorcycles and then smaller cars. All were cheaper, more economical, and better built than the "Big Three" was producing.

As unions won battles, wages became higher and, as we know today, they reached a point where it was cheaper to build your widgets somewhere else and then pay to have them put on a ship, brought here after a couple of weeks journey, be trucked to the destination and still sell it for less than if it were built on our shores.

Why is that difficult for you to understand?

 

[pknopp]

Wages are low.

For most U.S. workers, real wages have barely budged in decades

Despite some ups and downs over the past several decades, today's real average wage in the U.S. has about the same purchasing power it did 40 years ago. And most of what wage gains there have been have flowed to the highest-paid tier of workers.

www.pewresearch.org

So what?

Why should a worker's real wages increase if they are not doing anything more or less than they were twenty years ago? Why should anyone's lifestyle improve simply because they have gotten older and are doing the same as what they did twenty years ago? Keep up with inflation yes, which has happened.

As you know too, President Donald Trump is the first president in decades to increase low and middle-income workers and that of minorities more than other presidents in modern history. He also narrowed the income gap between low and high-income workers. But liberals can not allow those workers to see how easy it was to do. So, Trump was under constant attack. Democrats certainly can't allow their base to learn that they really can make their lives better on their own than government support.

This is even more true today.

Right, manufacturing never offshored. Sheesh.

That is your response to my statement (Markle). " That's not true. When most women stayed home, our taxes were very low. As taxes increased, it became more and more difficult for a single wage earner to pay for all the necessities. More and more households needed additional income. With the additional income, the government saw even more money they could use for their pet projects."

Please show us all where I said manufacturing was never offshored?

A prime example is our automotive industry. Unions had the auto industry by the short and curlies. It wasn't the CEOs who would lose anything by conceding to the demands of the unions. That sharply increased the cost of American autos. In addition to that, American manufacturers were arrogant and believed the American consumer was a captive market.

Then, as you know, Volkswagons began showing up and nearly became a fad. Honda started with small motorcycles and then smaller cars. All were cheaper, more economical, and better built than the "Big Three" was producing.

As unions won battles, wages became higher and, as we know today, they reached a point where it was cheaper to build your widgets somewhere else and then pay to have them put on a ship, brought here after a couple of weeks journey, be trucked to the destination and still sell it for less than if it were built on our shores.

Why is that difficult for you to understand?

Keep your position if you wish. Rather than businesses paying people, taxpayers will.

 

[Markle]

It's irrelevant. I've discussed this endlessly.

Of course, facts are irrelevant to you, they do not conform with any of your beliefs. You demand to believe that the minimum wage is relevant, and it is NOT.

Why do you demand to remain ignorant? My guess is that your leaders did not want you to know the facts because then they would look foolish. And, you are a willing subject.

Why?

 

[Markle]

Wages are low.

For most U.S. workers, real wages have barely budged in decades

Despite some ups and downs over the past several decades, today's real average wage in the U.S. has about the same purchasing power it did 40 years ago. And most of what wage gains there have been have flowed to the highest-paid tier of workers.

www.pewresearch.org

So what?

Why should a worker's real wages increase if they are not doing anything more or less than they were twenty years ago? Why should anyone's lifestyle improve simply because they have gotten older and are doing the same as what they did twenty years ago? Keep up with inflation yes, which has happened.

As you know too, President Donald Trump is the first president in decades to increase low and middle-income workers and that of minorities more than other presidents in modern history. He also narrowed the income gap between low and high-income workers. But liberals can not allow those workers to see how easy it was to do. So, Trump was under constant attack. Democrats certainly can't allow their base to learn that they really can make their lives better on their own than government support.

This is even more true today.

Right, manufacturing never offshored. Sheesh.

That is your response to my statement (Markle). " That's not true. When most women stayed home, our taxes were very low. As taxes increased, it became more and more difficult for a single wage earner to pay for all the necessities. More and more households needed additional income. With the additional income, the government saw even more money they could use for their pet projects."

Please show us all where I said manufacturing was never offshored?

A prime example is our automotive industry. Unions had the auto industry by the short and curlies. It wasn't the CEOs who would lose anything by conceding to the demands of the unions. That sharply increased the cost of American autos. In addition to that, American manufacturers were arrogant and believed the American consumer was a captive market.

Then, as you know, Volkswagons began showing up and nearly became a fad. Honda started with small motorcycles and then smaller cars. All were cheaper, more economical, and better built than the "Big Three" was producing.

As unions won battles, wages became higher and, as we know today, they reached a point where it was cheaper to build your widgets somewhere else and then pay to have them put on a ship, brought here after a couple of weeks journey, be trucked to the destination and still sell it for less than if it were built on our shores.

Why is that difficult for you to understand?

Keep your position if you wish. Rather than businesses paying people, taxpayers will.

You are having difficulty accepting the fact that far fewer people earning minimum wage are living in anything like poverty than what your leaders want you to believe.

If someone makes bad decisions, how does that become the responsibility of the employer? Isn't that your (taxpayers) responsibility rather than the employer? You permit it to happen, not the company.

 

[Papageorgio]

How come supply and demand didn’t work before unions? Al kaline was the highest player in the 60s he made a whopping $100k. Gordy Howe was grossly underpaid too.

Don be mad that these workers are worth millions and you are not. Thats jealousy

The NBA unionized in 1954, in 1965 Bill Russell and Wilt Chamberlin made a 100k, just like Al, so union members made 100k, non union members make 100k.

True. Unions probably protect the lowest paid players more than the highest

Keep moving the goal posts, way to go.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

It's just silly to suggest people have not gotten a raise in 20 years

Do you know what inflation is? Our raises haven’t kept up with inflation. Meanwhile the CEO’s pay has quadrupled. He got a good raise. Your raise didn’t even keep up with inflation.

Raises wer not given out during the bush years and certa8nly weren’t given after his Great Recession. Remember? Slowest recovery ever? Not for the rich. They recovered nicely.

I got several raises in the Reagan, Bush I, Clinton, Bush II(the biggest raises), Obama and Trump. Maybe those people you knew that didn’t get raises should have smartened up and changed where they decided to worked.

Sealy is an ignorant leftist. Doesn't understand free markets. Don't waste your time.

I understand the difference between a employers market and an employees market.

I don’t want to hear about papags personal experience. I’m going by national averages. Fact is, labor is not doing as well as they did twenty years ago and CEOs are doing better than ever. That means employers are giving themselves big raises but not their employees.

If you want to talk about personal experience I got a $45,000 raise on Obama’s watch.

Again, free markets. Contractors and plumbers are doing better too. Hire a plumber now vs 10 yrs ago. Rates have nearly doubled. Free markets. Don’t want that plumber try to hire a cheaper one who is good. Free markets work. Sorry you don’t understand how. And you lie about your raise. You told me you only make $80k per yr

Again, there is no such thing as a free market. In Michigan you must hold a state license to work as a plumber. It’s regulated by the government. A truly free market I could do plumbing without having to jump through that hoop. Government sets the rules. I’m sure you would be ok with not requiring plumbers be licensed.

Ahhh....that is because of the bureaucrats but in their defense they don't want hacks without cred working on homes. Get your license and plumb away. You also should self insure. They are protecting the consumer. Not the same thing.

The middle class is the creation of government intervention in the marketplace. Liberal democracies created the middle class. The government for example passed a progressive tax. Free market cons want a flat tax. But we know a flat tax won’t work except for rich people. So our government set the rules. If corporations had their way they’d pay no taxes. Only employees and consumers would.

Government sets a minimum wage because free markets would pay $2 hr if they had the power.

Government allows labor to organize into unions. Unions are not free market capitalism. And unions brought wages up, not free market capitalismm.

Capitalism is the best ism but only when properly regulated by government.

#1) I support a flat tax based on %. How about a 25% tax and a 2% federal consumption tax. Rich people consume more and more expensive products so you kill two birds with one stone. Significantly reduce the IRS and simplify our overly complex tax code.

#2) You vilify the "rich people" why? Trevor Lawrence is a good guy now but once he signs his NFL contract he suddenly becomes evil because he is rich? Seems odd.

#3) Gov't should not set the min wage and free markets would pay what was necessary to provide the best goods and or services or go out of business. Raising the min wage to $15 creates an incentive to replace workers with machines. No sick days, no human errors, no health insurance. Many fast food places do that now.

#4) Gov't should interfere as little as possible IMO.

If a company can save money automating, they’re going to. Don’t threaten me that they will automate if we force them to pay a fair wage. They’ll automate eventually no matter what. And the people who they do employ will make good money.

How you going to force them to pay a fair wage? We all know $15 an hour is fair in Mississippi but in New York City it should be $35 an hour

Whatever solution I propose you'll just cry class warfare or call me a commie.

Honestly, I think it's up to two groups of workers to organize into unions. Walmart and McD employees.

Walmart is our largest employer. It used to be GM. GM could send jobs overseas. Walmart can't.

And if Walmart workers in Red states don't want to organize, they don't have to. Just don't ask for the same wages northern employees make. They earned that higher pay.

The problem is once again they don't want unions and two I gave you my two solutions

What's yours, I would like to hear them

1. Go after illegal employers. When they stop hiring illegal workers, Americans will no longer have to compete with illegals and pay will go up.

2. A tax on the mega rich

3. A law saying no ceo can make more than 200 or 300 times the average worker. Fortune 500 companies only. Big tax on companies who break the law.

4. tariff manufacturing if the product can be made in America.

5. Strenghten social security and Medicare.

6. Pro union policies

7. Stop legal immigration until wages go up

#1) I agree with that 100%. Democrats want to protect illegals and their kids. I don't. If I rob a bank and give the money to my kids but they don't know the money was garnered illegally, do they get to keep it?

#2) We do. I suggested a 2% federal consumption tax. Punishing success is stupid.

#3) You cannot do that to public and or private companies. It is the BOD and their call on compensation. I actually like that rule but it comes with a slippery slope.

#4) I am good with that. As are the Republicans. Democrats are not.

#5) Strengthen? How about we raise the retirement age to 75? How about we investigate fraud more thoroughly?

#6) I would abolish all unions. Baseball players don't need a union.

#7) I am good with that.

There you go again. You republicans always hate the highest paid workers in America. Do you think baseball players would make as much as they do if they didn’t have a union? So you wish the players made less and owners made more. I knew that already.

I am an Independent and distrust both parties. I think yes they would. Boxers don't have unions, they do very well. Supply and demand decides what baseball players make. Union of millionaires.

How come supply and demand didn’t work before unions? Al kaline was the highest player in the 60s he made a whopping $100k. Gordy Howe was grossly underpaid too.

Don be mad that these workers are worth millions and you are not. Thats jealousy

Back then salaries were lower. Rudy Gobert makes way more than Shaq ever made. Changing of the times.

You missed the point. Howard stern just signed a huge contract. One news broadcaster or tv personality scoffed at why Howard should make so much.

That mentality is fucked up. Rather than see union workers got pensions and say I want that too, you said they shouldn’t get pensions because you dont. You’re a hater when it comes to employees making a lot but ok with out of control ceo pay and golden parachutes.

When did I say that? I do have a pension. I support free markets. CEOs are employees like anyone else.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

It's Socialism for the markets.

Trillions for the markets but NO raise in the minimum wage for the working stiffs.

Who earns the minimum wage? The head of a household with one or two kids or a teenager/young person living at home? What is the typical household income of that minimum wage worker?

It's not difficult to find this info.

Low-wage Workers Are Older Than You Think: 88 Percent of Workers Who Would Benefit From a Higher Minimum Wage Are Older Than 20, One Third Are Over 40

If you’re earning minimum wage you have minimum marketable skill set.

So?

A man was making a good wage making widgets. The wife stayed home.

The widget manufacturer decides to off shore to Thailand. Now both have to go to work. Yeah, her skills are not up to date but all that's left is low wage jobs.

As long as we are going to continue to allow that I'm going to support those harmed.

That's not true. When most women stayed home, our taxes were very low. As taxes increased, it became more and more difficult for a single wage earner to pay for all the necessities. More and more households needed additional income. With the additional income, government saw even more money they could use for their pet projects.

Right, manufacturing never offshored. Sheesh.

You live in hyperboles eh?