Water

[Mushroom]

There are many places that use desalinated water as their primary source of domestic water.

Yes, I know.

The harmfulness of brine to the marine environment can occur as a result of abnormally high salinity, or the occurrence of pollutants that do not naturally exist in the receiving water body. Apart from the high salinity of the brine, other substances that may be present include dangerous pre-treatment chemicals, anti-fouling agents, heavy metals, organics, chlorine, and acids, all of which are important for treatment of the feed water and pipelines.

Frontiers | Characteristics of Desalination Brine and Its Impacts on Marine Chemistry and Health, With Emphasis on the Persian/Arabian Gulf: A Review

At a time when worldwide water shortage is increasing, seawater is being viewed as an inexhaustible supply of fresh water via the process of seawater desalin...

www.frontiersin.org

Slaking the World's Thirst with Seawater Dumps Toxic Brine in Oceans

The salt and chemicals in the brine left over from desalination can threaten local marine ecosystems

www.scientificamerican.com

The effects within the discharge mixing zones range from impaired activities and morphological deformations to changes in the community composition. Recent modeling work demonstrated that brine could spread over the seabed, beyond the mixing zone, for up to several tens of kilometers and impair nutrient fluxes from the sediment to the water column.

Impacts of Desalination Brine Discharge on Benthic Ecosystems - PubMed

Seawater reverse osmosis (SWRO) desalination facilities produce freshwater and, at the same time, discharge hypersaline brine that often includes various chemical additives such as antiscalants and coagulants. This dense brine can sink to the sea bottom and creep over the seabed, reaching up to...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

And yeah, I've actually been to those countries and drank that water.

But here is the thing, Kuwait is home to less than 5 million people. Qatar is home to less than 3 million people.

The area of California you are talking about, home to over 25 million people.

So you are going to somehow come up with the electricity to desalinate three times as much salt water. Oh, and find some magical way that you can discharge the brine without destroying the already fragile marine ecosystem off the coast.

You are talking about those locations I specifically talked about, those "limited circumstances". Most of those on your lists combined does not equal the population of the part of California you are are wanting to provide water through desalinization. And then how are you going to dispose of all that brine?

Because when the process is done, you have around 3 gallons of brine to dispose of for every gallon of fresh water produced. That means that to provide the 425 million gallons a day needed just for the LA Metro Area, you are going to somehow dispose of some 1.5 billion gallons of brine.

You may not like the reality and call it "fake news". But how are you going to dispose of that much brine every single day without wrecking the environment?

 

[Concerned American]

Yes, I know.

Frontiers | Characteristics of Desalination Brine and Its Impacts on Marine Chemistry and Health, With Emphasis on the Persian/Arabian Gulf: A Review

At a time when worldwide water shortage is increasing, seawater is being viewed as an inexhaustible supply of fresh water via the process of seawater desalin...

www.frontiersin.org

Slaking the World's Thirst with Seawater Dumps Toxic Brine in Oceans

The salt and chemicals in the brine left over from desalination can threaten local marine ecosystems

www.scientificamerican.com

Impacts of Desalination Brine Discharge on Benthic Ecosystems - PubMed

Seawater reverse osmosis (SWRO) desalination facilities produce freshwater and, at the same time, discharge hypersaline brine that often includes various chemical additives such as antiscalants and coagulants. This dense brine can sink to the sea bottom and creep over the seabed, reaching up to...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

And yeah, I've actually been to those countries and drank that water.

But here is the thing, Kuwait is home to less than 5 million people. Qatar is home to less than 3 million people.

The area of California you are talking about, home to over 25 million people.

So you are going to somehow come up with the electricity to desalinate three times as much salt water. Oh, and find some magical way that you can discharge the brine without destroying the already fragile marine ecosystem off the coast.

You are talking about those locations I specifically talked about, those "limited circumstances". Most of those on your lists combined does not equal the population of the part of California you are are wanting to provide water through desalinization. And then how are you going to dispose of all that brine?

Because when the process is done, you have around 3 gallons of brine to dispose of for every gallon of fresh water produced. That means that to provide the 425 million gallons a day needed just for the LA Metro Area, you are going to somehow dispose of some 1.5 billion gallons of brine.

You may not like the reality and call it "fake news". But how are you going to dispose of that much brine every single day without wrecking the environment?

Valid--which begs the question, when are we going to quit pretending that area can sustain that ridiculously high population.

 

[Mushroom]

Valid--which begs the question, when are we going to quit pretending that area can sustain that ridiculously high population.

You will never see me saying that it can or should. I left that area over two decades ago and never plan on returning other than to visit family. I admit it is grossly overpopulated and unsustainable. A large city that should have never been there in the first place.

This is the case in pretty much every city with a population around 1 million or more. Most times unless it is right on a potable water source, there is no way of ever providing enough water to it without taking that water from somewhere else. And it's even worse in California as they are actively destroying dams and not building new ones.

 

[initforme]

The great lakes should not be touched. One iota. Lack of water then go thirsty.

 

[Woodznutz]

-laughs-

-reads that again-

-laughs even harder-

OK, let's do some basic math here.

A "mile long freight train" is around 100 cars. And a liquid freight car has a maximum capacity of 34,500 gallons. That means that a mile long freight train hauling water is moving 34.5 million gallons of water.

Log Angeles uses over 425 million gallons of water per day. That is 12.3 mile long freight trains hauling nothing but water to the Greater Los Angeles Area every single day.

Far better to just do it as its done now, canals and aqueducts. The California Aqueduct alone moves over 650 million gallons a day. That is almost 19 mile long trains worth of water every single day.

We can move huge amounts of water to more places by rail and truck. This is how the Navaho's get their water.

There are lots more rail lines across America than water pipelines and aqueducts.

Water Hauling on the Navajo Nation — Kaitlin Harris

www.kaitlinharris.org

 

[sparky]

Farms need the water

I knew i had a good piece of land to build my farm on when i found 30gpm on it

~S~

 

[Woodznutz]

I knew i had a good piece of land to build my farm on when i found 30gpm on it

~S~

I bought an idyllic two acre wooded lot in the country and found great water at 94 feet. I paid $4,000 for the lot and $1500 for the well.

 

[sparky]

I bought an idyllic two acre wooded lot in the country and found great water at 94 feet. I paid $4,000 for the lot and $1500 for the well.

proof life's essentials have value Woodz........ ~S~

 

[Woodznutz]

proof life's essentials have value Woodz........ ~S~

Even more so

when you distill the impurities out of them.

 

[Woodznutz]

proof life's essentials have value Woodz........ ~S~

Even more so when you distill the impurities out of them.

 

[Woodznutz]

It's a huge issue. How much water is available to use, as humans, without desalinization? How much more can we grow as a world population before it all falls apart?

The biggest issue is the industrial use of potable water, which dwarfs all other uses except crop irrigation.

 

[Woodznutz]

Even more soView attachment 1182120 when you distill the impurities out of them.

 

[ReinyDays]

You will never see me saying that it can or should. I left that area over two decades ago and never plan on returning other than to visit family. I admit it is grossly overpopulated and unsustainable. A large city that should have never been there in the first place.

This is the case in pretty much every city with a population around 1 million or more. Most times unless it is right on a potable water source, there is no way of ever providing enough water to it without taking that water from somewhere else. And it's even worse in California as they are actively destroying dams and not building new ones.

It's the climate ... its always sunny and mild in SoCal ... sun-tanning weather year-round ... see how it always makes National Headlines when they get a rain storm? ... 1/2 inch will cause catastrophic flooding ... San Diego shuts down if there's a sprinkle or two ... if you've lived there, you would know better this better than I ...

Do you have a citation on a city's water supply dams being removed? ... I know these old abandoned former hydropower dams are being removed ... no one's maintaining them and they haven't produced power since Bonneville went on-line ... locally we passed a bond many years ago to install a fish ladder and provide needed repairs ... today, it's strictly recreation ... the dam and lake have never provided city water, we get all our drinking water from all the natural springs around here ...

 

[Woodznutz]

You may not like the reality and call it "fake news". But how are you going to dispose of that much brine every single day without wrecking the environment?

Find a way to spread it out.

 

[ReinyDays]

Southern California needs to conserve water ... watering lawns and golf courses is the problem ...

Las Veges is much drier ... however ... all the water is pumped out of Lake Mead ... used by residences, businesses and industry ... treated ... and pumped back into Lake Mead ... the only water lost is lawns and golf courses ...

80% of California's "developed" water is used by farmers {Cite} ... urban desalination won't fix anything ...

 

[Captain Caveman]

There's plenty of fresh water falling from the skies. We just have to find ways to keep it from running into the sea before we can make use of it.

Fit a rain harvester to your home.

 

[Etymology gaslight]

We can move lots of water by "mile long freight trains" across America. We just need reservoirs to catch and hold the torrential rains that we are experiencing.

View attachment 1126418

There is fresh water at the bottom of the ocean off the east coast.

 

[Etymology gaslight]

Why are you considering Florida as a desert? ... or Vermont? ... both these locations carry a Köppen Classification of "Humid" with adequate rainfall throughout the year ... where, exactly, in either state does average annual rainfall fall below 5 inches? ... I lived in Iowa a few years and every farmer planted their corn with every expectation of enough rainfall through the summer for a decent crop ... no irrigation needed ... a Köppen Classification of "Humid" with adequate rainfall throughout the year ... It's called "climate" ... and it tells us what weather we should expect ... a "humid" climate means there's adequate rainfall throughout the year; on average ...

The water issues arise in California ... which has a "Mediterranean" climate ... it rarely rains in July and August ... those farmers must irrigate or their crops die ... thus the extensive water storage and delivery systems we find in the Central Valley, and canals and aqueducts from the Colorado River to the Imperial Valley ...

The Delta smelt was more important than the farms that fed the people.

This is completely un-informed ... the fresh water where we find fish is where farmers get their water ... let salt water up into the Delta and the fish die and farmers' crops fail ... the water goes to Los Angeles golf courses and lush green lawns ... and Colorado River water providing for Phoenix's golf courses and expansive city park lawns ...

Farms need the water, not big city flower gardens ... but I understand your confusion ... drinking water is more of a nuisance in Florida, my Lord it rains there !!! ...

Not confused at all.
Delta smelt, saltine crackers.

 

[ReinyDays]

There is fresh water at the bottom of the ocean off the east coast.

Where the sewage is dumped? ...

 

[frigidweirdo]

The biggest issue is the industrial use of potable water, which dwarfs all other uses except crop irrigation.

Doesn't really matter. How much do we need as a species to thrive? Once we're past that, we're doomed.