VOX: "Obamacare’s individual mandate is unpopular. But it’s crucial to making Obamacare work"

[dblack]

But hey, I don't think anyone decides to be cheated by big insurance. But it seems to happen all the time.

Yeah, we've talked about this. Repeatedly. If people are getting ripped off by insurance companies, we should prosecute the guilty parties. Libertarians are on your side on that issue. But that's not really what you're talking about, is it?

My guess is that he is talking about the legal fleecing that goes on by insurance companies.

You know....legal....as in someone (like the government) allows this happen and won't pass laws to stop it or allow it to be prosecuted.

Exactly. And he wants to turn over our health care to the "someones" currently overseeing the legal fleecing.

 

[JoeB131]

And this is the punch line: you think government will protect you FROM armies of lawyers. Government IS armies of lawyers.

Yes, they are.

Which report to us, at the end of the day.

As already shown, there are parts of our system that, considered by themselves, are better than anywhere else.

Um, no, not really. The "Rich people come here and get treatments Americans can't afford" isn't better.

My guess is that he is talking about the legal fleecing that goes on by insurance companies.

You know....legal....as in someone (like the government) allows this happen and won't pass laws to stop it or allow it to be prosecuted.

Well, they did stop it. It's called the ACA, and insurance companies can't call your cancer a pre-existing condition anymore because you had acne when you were a teen, which was EXACTLY the kind of shit they were pulling before ACA.

Now, personally, I would like to see the insurance companies abolished, and then try their executives for crimes against humanity, followed by harvesting them for transplant organs.

 

[dblack]

And this is the punch line: you think government will protect you FROM armies of lawyers. Government IS armies of lawyers.

Yes, they are.

Which report to us, at the end of the day.

LOL - right. Well, they're seriously overdue if that's your claim. But your claim is silly.

 

[JoeB131]

LOL - right. Well, they're seriously overdue if that's your claim. But your claim is silly.

Right. Politicians aren't the least bit afraid people will vote them out.

Not even a little.

 

[MadChemist]

Now, personally, I would like to see the insurance companies abolished, and then try their executives for crimes against humanity, followed by harvesting them for transplant organs.

Yes, we long since figured out how bitter you are.

 

[MadChemist]

Um, no, not really. The "Rich people come here and get treatments Americans can't afford" isn't better.

Then why do they come here ?

 

[MadChemist]

LOL - right. Well, they're seriously overdue if that's your claim. But your claim is silly.

Right. Politicians aren't the least bit afraid people will vote them out.

Not even a little.

Politicians are afraid their money and propaganda machines won't have the fuel they need to lie to us.

But they never lie.

Not even a little.

 

[JoeB131]

Yes, we long since figured out how bitter you are.

How many decent people died because insurance companies cheated them after they paid the premiums?

hen why do they come here ?

Doesn't matter. The American Health System should only be judged on the quality of care it provides to AMERICANS. That a rich Canadian flies down here to get a private hospital room he can't get at home (not that this happens that much) does nothing to help average Americans.

Politicians are afraid their money and propaganda machines won't have the fuel they need to lie to us.

But they never lie.

Not even a little.

I think they tell us what we want to hear.

and that's part of the problem, we don't have the tough conversations- how much we want to pay in taxes to get the benefits we require.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Obamacare’s individual mandate, the new target in the GOP tax plan, explained

So.....the product doesn't work unless people are forced to buy the product?

The OBAMACARE mandate is a tax on Americans who can’t afford insurance. “This is a moral outrage, and the public agrees: 66% of Americans oppose the mandate, according to a 2017 YouGov poll.”

Correct, it doesn't work unless people are forced. Where ya been, Rumplestiltskin? This was all explained 20 years ago when the GOP started championing this idea.

 

[MadChemist]

I think they tell us what we want to hear.

and that's part of the problem, we don't have the tough conversations- how much we want to pay in taxes to get the benefits we require.

Benefits we require ????

How about how much we don't want to pay in taxes and we'll take care of our own benefit.

How about...stop propping up the insurance industry and make medicare more painful to use (for those who can afford the extra pain...and ween the rising generation off of it) so that prices drop.....like they have for medical procedures that are bought on the open market ?

Oh yeah.....I forgot.

1. The Koch Brothers tell me everything I think I know.

2. Hate radio fills in what the Koch's miss.

3. All (or most) politicians listen to their constitutents.

4. Our health care system is awful....just awful

5. Everyone in Canada loves their health care system.....

6. Everyone in the U.K. loves their health care system.....

7. All the metrics work against the U.S. because nobody skews the statistics.

8. Citing statistics is racist.

9. And you know everything.....

 

[MadChemist]

Politicians are afraid their money and propaganda machines won't have the fuel they need to lie to us.

But they never lie.

Not even a little.

I think they tell us what we want to hear.

But you think that stops when you've put them in charge of our health care.

Got it.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

I think they tell us what we want to hear.

and that's part of the problem, we don't have the tough conversations- how much we want to pay in taxes to get the benefits we require.

Benefits we require ????

How about how much we don't want to pay in taxes and we'll take care of our own benefit.

How about...stop propping up the insurance industry and make medicare more painful to use (for those who can afford the extra pain...and ween the rising generation off of it) so that prices drop.....like they have for medical procedures that are bought on the open market ?

Oh yeah.....I forgot.

1. The Koch Brothers tell me everything I think I know.

2. Hate radio fills in what the Koch's miss.

3. All (or most) politicians listen to their constitutents.

4. Our health care system is awful....just awful

5. Everyone in Canada loves their health care system.....

6. Everyone in the U.K. loves their health care system.....

7. All the metrics work against the U.S. because nobody skews the statistics.

8. Citing statistics is racist.

9. And you know everything.....

What a stupid idea...a huge chunk of Amerocans were not insured, yet medical costs and insurance premiums still skyrocketed. If fewer people get medical care prices will go UP.

 

[MadChemist]

I think they tell us what we want to hear.

and that's part of the problem, we don't have the tough conversations- how much we want to pay in taxes to get the benefits we require.

Benefits we require ????

How about how much we don't want to pay in taxes and we'll take care of our own benefit.

How about...stop propping up the insurance industry and make medicare more painful to use (for those who can afford the extra pain...and ween the rising generation off of it) so that prices drop.....like they have for medical procedures that are bought on the open market ?

Oh yeah.....I forgot.

1. The Koch Brothers tell me everything I think I know.

2. Hate radio fills in what the Koch's miss.

3. All (or most) politicians listen to their constitutents.

4. Our health care system is awful....just awful

5. Everyone in Canada loves their health care system.....

6. Everyone in the U.K. loves their health care system.....

7. All the metrics work against the U.S. because nobody skews the statistics.

8. Citing statistics is racist.

9. And you know everything.....

What a stupid idea...a huge chunk of Amerocans were not insured, yet medical costs and insurance premiums still skyrocketed. If fewer people get medical care prices will go UP.

You dispute that things like LASIK have come down in price.

 

[dblack]

Obamacare’s individual mandate, the new target in the GOP tax plan, explained

So.....the product doesn't work unless people are forced to buy the product?

The OBAMACARE mandate is a tax on Americans who can’t afford insurance. “This is a moral outrage, and the public agrees: 66% of Americans oppose the mandate, according to a 2017 YouGov poll.”

Correct, it doesn't work unless people are forced. Where ya been, Rumplestiltskin? This was all explained 20 years ago when the GOP started championing this idea.

Those championing this idea were wrong.

 

[dblack]

Politicians are afraid their money and propaganda machines won't have the fuel they need to lie to us.

But they never lie.

Not even a little.

I think they tell us what we want to hear.

But you think that stops when you've put them in charge of our health care.

Got it.

It'll stop because democracy.

 

[JoeB131]

Benefits we require ????

How about how much we don't want to pay in taxes and we'll take care of our own benefit.

I got mine, fuck you? World doesn't work that way.

How about...stop propping up the insurance industry and make medicare more painful to use

That's it. Let's inflict more pain on the elderly, those bastards!!!

so that prices drop.....like they have for medical procedures that are bought on the open market ?

And if you still can't afford it, fuck those old people. They had their time!

Medical procedures that have been brought into the open market are ones that are generally not critical. This is why your "market fairies" don't work. If I know you are going to DIE if you don't get Treatment X, I can charge whatever the fuck I want for Treatment X. I know that if your insurance won't cover it, you'll sell every last thing you have to get Treatment X. And then the people who love you will go into debt, too.

Here's an idea. Everyone is covered, we tax the rich to pay for it, because they can afford "the pain", and we set prices at what it reasonably costs to provide the service.

 

[JoeB131]

But you think that stops when you've put them in charge of our health care.

Got it.

I think they know they have to meet minimum metrics.

You see, for all your whiny libertarian garbage, most of the government agencies do their job reasonably well. Mail gets delivered, the DMV in mot places are pretty efficient (we just hate going there because it's a pain), and so on.

You dispute that things like LASIK have come down in price.

Nobody HAS to get LASIK. again, you miss the point.

If I have a pill that will save your life, if you go to the rules of supply and demand, the price will go up because your demand is pretty fucking high.

The Demand for Lasik is pretty low. Most people are kind of okay with wearing glasses if the alternative costs too much.

Oh, and since you brought it up, the fact is, LASIK procedures are falling out of favor. Mostly because once the market fairies have been exposed, it's actually a pretty dangerous procedure with lots of complications they didn't tell you about when they were trying to sell it hard.

Lasik surgery falling out of favor with patients

Potential patients are less likely to opt for Lasik than in the procedure's heyday of 2000-2007, when ads flooded the airwaves and more than a million of the outpatient surgeries were performed each year. The number of laser vision correction surgeries per year — a category including Lasik and the closely related PRK procedure — has dropped more than 50 percent, from about 1.5 million surgeries in 2007 to 604,000 in 2015, according to the eye care data source Market Scope.

Anti-Lasik patient advocates say potential patients are finding websites such as Lasik Complications and reading sobering stories about patients who endure debilitating side effects.

so here you have an example of turning a medical procedure into a commodity, and low and behold, you actually got some shitty results.

 

[Muhammed]

Sure it is. When they made auto insurance mandatory, premiums skyrocketed.

Not really.

Also, the only car insurance that is "mandetory" is liability insurance, which is really pretty cheap if you own the car outright and don't buy replacement insurance.

The reality is, car insurance is expensive because if you are paying off the car, the bank insists you insure it for full replacement value.

Bullshit. Liability insurance premiums skyrocketed.

 

[JoeB131]

Bullshit. Liability insurance premiums skyrocketed.

Proof? Link?

 

[Muhammed]

Bullshit. Liability insurance premiums skyrocketed.

Proof? Link?

Do your own homework.