Voters Oppose Removing Confederate Monuments

[eddiew37]

Where do you think this ends? How much of history needs erased? When will the movement be satisfied?

-Geaux

Never. They will be bitching and crying about something else by tomorrow.

When the idols of those traitors are torn down Let those worshiping those scum who would tear America down weep bitter tears

How about let local people decide the local issues and what they want torn down or left up. What a crazy concept, letting the people that will be affected the most decide what is best for them, not a bunch of idiots who will never give two shits about their community after the issue is over.

The whole country anymore is busybody left nuts and busybody right nuts wanting to dictate to others how they should all live. How about they keep out of everyone else's business and shut those traps.

And what of the people waving nazi flags Just turn away? Many 1000's of brave men and women died fighting nazi scum

Those that bravely fought the Nazis are the same people that fought for the right of Nazi scum to protest. My father fought in Germany in WWII, watched friends die, killed and captured German soldiers. His viewpoint is they are allowed to protest, they are allowed to be, to limit their speech and freedom of expression would be as wrong as Hitler silencing opposition to his regime.

If you want to confront the nuts and give them credibility, go for it, it is your right. I think ignoring them hurts them. It keeps them out of the news and not able to try to play a pathetic victim card. Would we have heard anything about the Charlottesville march had the anti crowd never showed?

I've written somewhere to leave them alone in their hate No crowds no reporting Let them spew their bile to themselves

 

[Picaro]

Find me all the public schools that do not teach American history, or teach American history while omitting the Civil War.

All of them. They teach revisionist crap, and a kindergarten version of that. Howard Zinn's nonsense is the primary model.

You're referring to this, for example?

How Texas is whitewashing Civil War history

Nope. That's not revision. Slavery was a catalyst in a fight over state's rights, not the primary issue.

Do you think that the fact that the election of an abolitionist president and the states immediately leaving the union is an indication that yeah, slavery was the primary cause?

More accurately, the Kansas-Nebraska Act of 1854 got the ball rolling.

I think it was the debate over the Wilmot Proviso, in which the anti-slavery advocate Webster himself stated that slavery was irrelevant re admission of new territories and not a real point of contention any more and allowing it in the new states was a moot issue, since geography had already limited the 'southern system' to it boundaries then. Slavery was just a splinter issue, and in fact most of the 'abolitionists' were supporting the 'ship them all back to Africa' position, not some noble notions of 'freedom' and the like, as was the case with Lincoln. In fact Lincoln almost lost his entire legislative influence in the elections of 1862, when many of his previous voters thought he was too devoted to freeing slaves and allowing them into the northern states in droves. lol

Of course, they only that saved him was his private army controlling the polls in the border states and some of the midwestern states.

 

[Picaro]

All of them. They teach revisionist crap, and a kindergarten version of that. Howard Zinn's nonsense is the primary model.

You're referring to this, for example?

How Texas is whitewashing Civil War history

Nope. That's not revision. Slavery was a catalyst in a fight over state's rights, not the primary issue.

Do you think that the fact that the election of an abolitionist president and the states immediately leaving the union is an indication that yeah, slavery was the primary cause?

More accurately, the Kansas-Nebraska Act of 1854 got the ball rolling.

The following article makes it clear why Mississippi left the Union.

Now the question is, was the issue racism or economic. First of all who does a person hold another in bondage? They do so by having the thought that the one man is not a man at all. If the slave master's daughter was kidnapped and put into bondage do you think that the slave master would think that was something other then a crime? I certainly don't think so.

So until the black man was seen as a man, not cattle, slavery was to continue.

Mississippi Declaration of Secession

Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery - the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product, which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization. That blow has been long aimed at the institution, and was at the point of reaching its consummation. There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union, whose principles had been subverted to work out our ruin.

Only one state had seceded, until Buchanan decided to reinforce Sumter in January of the following year; he backed off, but that provoked several states to secede, and Lincoln's same act of war provoked the rest in April.

Were there any 'liberated' slaves being protected inside Fort Sumter?

 

[Freewill]

You're referring to this, for example?

How Texas is whitewashing Civil War history

Nope. That's not revision. Slavery was a catalyst in a fight over state's rights, not the primary issue.

Do you think that the fact that the election of an abolitionist president and the states immediately leaving the union is an indication that yeah, slavery was the primary cause?

More accurately, the Kansas-Nebraska Act of 1854 got the ball rolling.

The following article makes it clear why Mississippi left the Union.

Now the question is, was the issue racism or economic. First of all who does a person hold another in bondage? They do so by having the thought that the one man is not a man at all. If the slave master's daughter was kidnapped and put into bondage do you think that the slave master would think that was something other then a crime? I certainly don't think so.

So until the black man was seen as a man, not cattle, slavery was to continue.

Mississippi Declaration of Secession

Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery - the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product, which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization. That blow has been long aimed at the institution, and was at the point of reaching its consummation. There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union, whose principles had been subverted to work out our ruin.

Only one state had seceded, until Buchanan decided to reinforce Sumter in January of the following year; he backed off, but that provoked several states to secede, and Lincoln's same act of war provoked the rest in April. You're full of nonsense as usual. Were there any slaves being protected inside Fort Sumter?

Me thinks you have the time line a little bit incorrect. In April of 1961 the supply lines to the fort had already been cut. What I said was that the states left the Union before Lincoln was even in office. Maybe I should have said the majority of states.

Fort Sumter - Wikipedia

Order of Secession of Southern States

Seven states seceded by February 1861:
South Carolina (December 20, 1860)
Mississippi (January 9, 1861)
Florida (January 10, 1861)
Alabama (January 11, 1861)
Georgia (January 19, 1861)
Louisiana (January 26, 1861)
Texas (February 1, 1861)
The first inauguration of Abraham Lincoln as the 16th President of the United States took place on March 4, 1861
The First Battle of Fort Sumter began on April 12, 1861
After President Lincoln called for "troops to suppress the rebellion in the Southern states," four more states seceded:
Virginia (April 17, 1861)
Arkansas (May 6, 1861)
North Carolina (May 20, 1861)
Tennessee (June 8, 1861)

 

[Freewill]

Never. They will be bitching and crying about something else by tomorrow.

When the idols of those traitors are torn down Let those worshiping those scum who would tear America down weep bitter tears

How about let local people decide the local issues and what they want torn down or left up. What a crazy concept, letting the people that will be affected the most decide what is best for them, not a bunch of idiots who will never give two shits about their community after the issue is over.

The whole country anymore is busybody left nuts and busybody right nuts wanting to dictate to others how they should all live. How about they keep out of everyone else's business and shut those traps.

And what of the people waving nazi flags Just turn away? Many 1000's of brave men and women died fighting nazi scum

Those that bravely fought the Nazis are the same people that fought for the right of Nazi scum to protest. My father fought in Germany in WWII, watched friends die, killed and captured German soldiers. His viewpoint is they are allowed to protest, they are allowed to be, to limit their speech and freedom of expression would be as wrong as Hitler silencing opposition to his regime.

If you want to confront the nuts and give them credibility, go for it, it is your right. I think ignoring them hurts them. It keeps them out of the news and not able to try to play a pathetic victim card. Would we have heard anything about the Charlottesville march had the anti crowd never showed?

I've written somewhere to leave them alone in their hate No crowds no reporting Let them spew their bile to themselves

Without looking into the actual rhetoric of the White Nationalists, as they are now being called. Called that to bemean nationalism. What is hateful of white pride any more so or less then black pride? Who are they hating on? And why is trying to save their heritage, although I disagree with having the statues, hateful? And what is ANTIFA's interest in the statues and stopping a legal protest? I see it as a subversive action pure and simple.

 

[ChrisL]

Never. They will be bitching and crying about something else by tomorrow.

When the idols of those traitors are torn down Let those worshiping those scum who would tear America down weep bitter tears

How about let local people decide the local issues and what they want torn down or left up. What a crazy concept, letting the people that will be affected the most decide what is best for them, not a bunch of idiots who will never give two shits about their community after the issue is over.

The whole country anymore is busybody left nuts and busybody right nuts wanting to dictate to others how they should all live. How about they keep out of everyone else's business and shut those traps.

And what of the people waving nazi flags Just turn away? Many 1000's of brave men and women died fighting nazi scum

Those that bravely fought the Nazis are the same people that fought for the right of Nazi scum to protest. My father fought in Germany in WWII, watched friends die, killed and captured German soldiers. His viewpoint is they are allowed to protest, they are allowed to be, to limit their speech and freedom of expression would be as wrong as Hitler silencing opposition to his regime.

If you want to confront the nuts and give them credibility, go for it, it is your right. I think ignoring them hurts them. It keeps them out of the news and not able to try to play a pathetic victim card. Would we have heard anything about the Charlottesville march had the anti crowd never showed?

I've written somewhere to leave them alone in their hate No crowds no reporting Let them spew their bile to themselves

And THAT is exactly what would have happened had the leftist agitators not shown up.

 

[Picaro]

Me thinks you have the time line a little bit incorrect.

No, I'm entirely correct; Buchanan set off the first wave of secession near the end of January; Lincoln's act of war in attempting a blockade of the harbor was in April, not January.

In April of 1961 the supply lines to the fort had already been cut. What I said was that the states left the Union before Lincoln was even in office.

Incorrect. Several states seceded as a result of Lincoln's illegal act of war after his inauguration.

Maybe I should have said the majority of states.

Yes, it's tough trying to make real history go away and replace it with ideological rubbish. Democrats always have much better luck with lying to school children and uneducated minorities attending crappy schools, using fake textbooks.

 

[Slash]

Incorrect. Several states seceded as a result of Lincoln's illegal act of war after his inauguration.

Maybe I should have said the majority of states.

Yes, it's tough trying to make real history go away and replace it with ideological rubbish. Democrats always have much better luck with lying to school children and uneducated minorities attending crappy schools, using fake textbooks.

What do you mean act of war? States were in open rebellion. The Confederates over the previous 6 months had siezed Federal property including dozens of forts, weapons caches, ships, and mints.

If some group rose up in the US today, got ahold of a few carriers, some nuclear subs, a few bases, some ICBM's, fort Knox, I'd hope we reacted.

Castle Pinckney Fort Moultrie United States Arsenal at Charleston Fort Johnson Fort Pulaski United States Arsenal at Augusta Oglethorpe Barracks Fort Jackson Dahlonega Mint United States Arsenal at Mount Vernon Fort Morgan Fort Gaines United States Arsenal at Apalachicola Fort Marion Barrancas Barracks Fort Barrancas Fort McRee Pensacola Navy Yard (Warrington Ship Yard) United States Arsenal at Baton Rouge Baton Rouge Barrack Fort Jackson Fort Saint Philip Fort Pike Fort Macomb United States paymaster’s office at New Orleans New Orleans Mint United States Arsenal at San Antonio San Antonio Barracks Camp Verde Fort Clark United States Arsenal at Little Rock United States ordnance stores at Napoleon United States subsistence stores at Pine Bluff Fort Smith are just a few seizures of US Federal Property that were taken by those states in rebellion.

You are right, it is tought to make history go away with your revisionist outlook. All of those forts were ceded to the US government in perpetuity. You can find the deeds even.