There have been only 10 voter fraud convictions in the United States since 1980.Since when? 1789? Just the US?
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There have been only 10 voter fraud convictions in the United States since 1980.Since when? 1789? Just the US?
There have been only 10 voter fraud convictions in the United States since 1980.Since when? 1789? Just the US?
There have been only 10 voter fraud convictions in the United States since 1980.Since when? 1789? Just the US?
Interesting....
FBI Reports More Than 1.5 Million Drug Arrests Last Year | StoptheDrugWar.org
So I guess using your logic, only 1.5 Million people used drugs in the US last year. Obviously, we've gotten every one of them...right?
Drug arrests and voter fraud convictions are two completely different issues.Interesting....
FBI Reports More Than 1.5 Million Drug Arrests Last Year | StoptheDrugWar.org
So I guess using your logic, only 1.5 Million people used drugs in the US last year. Obviously, we've gotten every one of them...right?
Voter fraud a myth or widespread?
Drug arrests and voter fraud convictions are two completely different issues.Interesting....
FBI Reports More Than 1.5 Million Drug Arrests Last Year | StoptheDrugWar.org
So I guess using your logic, only 1.5 Million people used drugs in the US last year. Obviously, we've gotten every one of them...right?
There is absolutely no reason to waste time and energy on something that rarely occurs.Yes but the statistical references are the same. You report stats (you don't cite them by the way) and the stats come from some presumably reputable source I suppose. But just because there have only been 10 convictions doesn't mean there hasn't been more instances...right?
So....can you give me a reason why we should not try to make the process as sterile as possible? I mean, would you be happy if there were doctors getting fraudulent test scores on their proficiency exams or should we just accept that a certain number will cheat their way through and not worry about their practicing medicine without credentials? Or surgeons...or nuclear engineers...or perhaps election officials....
What is your excuse for not trying?
There is absolutely no reason to waste time and energy on something that rarely occurs.Yes but the statistical references are the same. You report stats (you don't cite them by the way) and the stats come from some presumably reputable source I suppose. But just because there have only been 10 convictions doesn't mean there hasn't been more instances...right?
So....can you give me a reason why we should not try to make the process as sterile as possible? I mean, would you be happy if there were doctors getting fraudulent test scores on their proficiency exams or should we just accept that a certain number will cheat their way through and not worry about their practicing medicine without credentials? Or surgeons...or nuclear engineers...or perhaps election officials....
What is your excuse for not trying?
All this voter fraud bullshit is nothing more than the republican rights latest attempt at voter suppression.
The Bush Admin actually went looking for this shit and found only 86 cases in 5 years of elections.According to whom does it "rarely occur"? Your stat which you have all but admitted is suspect if not, at least, debateable.
And you can't come up with a reason for not making the process as sterile as possible except for it being a "waste of time and energy" as if it were in short supply. We have elections about once a year. It won't draw much time or energy from dire tasks.
As for "bullshit", nobody would accuse me of being a republican in the first place. In the second place, how will it suppress votes if the voter ID card is provided free of charge (as they are in all fifty states)?
This isn't even an issue worth talking about.The Bush administration spent five years (2002 to 2007) searching for voter fraud and found only 86 cases. The Brennan Center for Justice, as well as the ACLU, have also found infinitesimal instances of voter fraud.
This is the bottom line...There is no documented wave or trend of individuals voting multiple times, voting as someone else, or voting despite knowing that they are ineligible. Indeed, evidence from the microscopically scrutinized 2004 gubernatorial election in Washington State actually reveals just the opposite: though voter fraud does happen, it happens approximately 0.0009% of the time. The similarly closely-analyzed 2004 election in Ohio revealed a voter fraud rate of 0.00004%.
Summary
Fraud by individual voters is both irrational and extremely rare.
Many vivid anecdotes of purported voter fraud have been proven false or do not demonstrate fraud.
Voter fraud is often conflated with other forms of election misconduct.
Raising the unsubstantiated specter of mass voter fraud suits a particular policy agenda.
Claims of voter fraud should be carefully tested before they become the basis for action.
At least you're now admitting to an 800% increase over the "10 prosecutions" plank you had earlier.The Bush Admin actually went looking for this shit and found only 86 cases in 5 years of elections.According to whom does it "rarely occur"? Your stat which you have all but admitted is suspect if not, at least, debateable.
And you can't come up with a reason for not making the process as sterile as possible except for it being a "waste of time and energy" as if it were in short supply. We have elections about once a year. It won't draw much time or energy from dire tasks.
As for "bullshit", nobody would accuse me of being a republican in the first place. In the second place, how will it suppress votes if the voter ID card is provided free of charge (as they are in all fifty states)?
This isn't even an issue worth talking about.The Bush administration spent five years (2002 to 2007) searching for voter fraud and found only 86 cases. The Brennan Center for Justice, as well as the ACLU, have also found infinitesimal instances of voter fraud.
Actual voter fraud is rare.
This is the bottom line...There is no documented wave or trend of individuals voting multiple times, voting as someone else, or voting despite knowing that they are ineligible. Indeed, evidence from the microscopically scrutinized 2004 gubernatorial election in Washington State actually reveals just the opposite: though voter fraud does happen, it happens approximately 0.0009% of the time. The similarly closely-analyzed 2004 election in Ohio revealed a voter fraud rate of 0.00004%.
Summary
Fraud by individual voters is both irrational and extremely rare.
Many vivid anecdotes of purported voter fraud have been proven false or do not demonstrate fraud.
Voter fraud is often conflated with other forms of election misconduct.
Raising the unsubstantiated specter of mass voter fraud suits a particular policy agenda.
Claims of voter fraud should be carefully tested before they become the basis for action.
Whether it's a myth, widespread or (as we say in truth-ville) something in between; there is absolutely nothing wrong with making the process as sterile as possible.
Have all voter IDs bear the photograph of the registered party.
Make them free of charge
Demand the ID when a ballot is cast
It's really not that hard.
This is the second thread on this video, there was one about a week ago....
Do you truly believe that absentee ballots and provisional ballots are not checked against the voter rolls? that the millions of absentee and provisional ballots are not compared to the voter rolls from the polls to make certain no one votes twice?
Seriously?
It is my understanding that a simple check is done, so that no voter within a state can vote twice because the provisional and absentee ballots have a data check run on them to make certain of this....
So if this woman did send in her provisional or absentee ballot, more than likely it did not make it in time as she stated that she thought it would not....because if it had made it in time AND she voted again, she would be charged already with voter fraud, for voting twice....there is a procedure to notify the State attorneys office if absentee and provisional voters are shown after their data check, to have tried to vote twice, once on paper and once in person.
Whether it's a myth, widespread or (as we say in truth-ville) something in between; there is absolutely nothing wrong with making the process as sterile as possible.
Have all voter IDs bear the photograph of the registered party.
Make them free of charge
Demand the ID when a ballot is cast
It's really not that hard.
Not necessary.
Once a citizen has registered to vote using the ID required by his state, he may continue to vote as long as his registration remains valid. His statement and signature on the registration roll is sufficient. There is no need to demand of him ID at each election, absent evidence the voter is attempting to commit fraud.
Consequently, elections officials may address suspected fraud on a case by case basis.
Voting is a fundamental right, and can not be restricted without a compelling governmental interest, where the burden of proof lies with the state, not the voter. Since theres no evidence voter fraud has altered the outcome of any election, the state would clearly fail to meet that burden.
Those were 10 convictions.At least you're now admitting to an 800% increase over the "10 prosecutions" plank you had earlier.
They're not finding 1 in 10. They're finding .06 in 10.The citation above does point to a gubernatorial election. Would you admit that the smaller profile the race, the fewer votes are cast? Would that not inflate the importance of voter fraud? When you have 1 of 10 votes cast fraudulently, you have 10% fraud. If you have 1 in 100, you have 1% fraud. The point is that the more localized the elections, the more direct impact it has on your life.
Voter ID disenfranchises lower income people, many of which, do not have ID's. And it is a hardship for many of them, to actually go down to city hall, or a DMV, to get an ID card.And you never addressed this:
"In the second place, how will it suppress votes if the voter ID card is provided free of charge (as they are in all fifty states)?"
There are differences between cases and instances as well.Those were 10 convictions.At least you're now admitting to an 800% increase over the "10 prosecutions" plank you had earlier.
There's a difference between a case and a conviction.
Best to take the medicine before the epidemic takes place.They're not finding 1 in 10. They're finding .06 in 10.The citation above does point to a gubernatorial election. Would you admit that the smaller profile the race, the fewer votes are cast? Would that not inflate the importance of voter fraud? When you have 1 of 10 votes cast fraudulently, you have 10% fraud. If you have 1 in 100, you have 1% fraud. The point is that the more localized the elections, the more direct impact it has on your life.
There is no evidence of an epidemic.
Voter ID disenfranchises lower income people, many of which, do not have ID's. And it is a hardship for many of them, to actually go down to city hall, or a DMV, to get an ID card.And you never addressed this:
"In the second place, how will it suppress votes if the voter ID card is provided free of charge (as they are in all fifty states)?"
You take medicine to fight a disease. There is no disease of voter fraud.Best to take the medicine before the epidemic takes place.
What about those that have physical disabilities and cannot even leave their house or convelesence home?The cards are free. There is no injury to lower income people.
If they don't have ID's, we can't be sure of their residency; hence we can't be sure of what ballot they should receive when voting; certainly you're not making the case that we shouldn't register people to vote at all now are you?
As for the hardship of visiting a government office once in a few years to get a voter ID card, what percentage of people can't muster enough energy to visit such a place once every 3 years or so? What percent of the electorate are put through such a hardship do you reckon?
You take medicine to fight a disease. There is no disease of voter fraud.Best to take the medicine before the epidemic takes place.
What about those that have physical disabilities and cannot even leave their house or convelesence home?The cards are free. There is no injury to lower income people.
If they don't have ID's, we can't be sure of their residency; hence we can't be sure of what ballot they should receive when voting; certainly you're not making the case that we shouldn't register people to vote at all now are you?
As for the hardship of visiting a government office once in a few years to get a voter ID card, what percentage of people can't muster enough energy to visit such a place once every 3 years or so? What percent of the electorate are put through such a hardship do you reckon?
Wasting time and energy to prevent something that rarely ever occurs, is like building an A-frame roof in the middle of the desert because you're worried about snow loads.I will agree that there will need to be some measures taken for those persons. And you admit there is fraud...so there is a disease. And it's easily curable.
Wasting time and energy to prevent something that rarely ever occurs, is like building an A-frame roof in the middle of the desert because you're worried about snow loads.I will agree that there will need to be some measures taken for those persons. And you admit there is fraud...so there is a disease. And it's easily curable.