Very interesting video on stopping power.

[HereWeGoAgain]

I've seen this video in the past but thought I'd post it for those who may not have seen it.
It came to some very interesting conclusions,some I already knew,and some I wasn't aware of.

 

[night_son]

I've seen this video in the past but thought I'd post it for those who may not have seen it.
It came to some very interesting conclusions,some I already knew,and some I wasn't aware of.

In my own "travels" over the years I have discovered two realities concerning the oft mentioned caliber stopping power controversy. Extremely small grain aerodynamic bullets travelling at high supersonic velocities tend to rip body cavities and ricochet off bones, often amputating impacted extremities such as fingers, arms and even legs. Such projectiles, depending upon the material of their construction, can either deflect off solid targets or penetrate them, and even pop right through thin armor. But the laws of diminishing returns still apply here. Small, fast bullets reach a speed and lack of density where their inability to transfer much kinetic energy becomes their greatest enemy, in regard specifically to their lack of weight.

The second stopping power reality relates to massive "blunt" shaped bullets traveling at lower velocities. Such projectiles, again depending upon the material of their construction and bullet design, can outright knock down the heaviest and largest men and beasts, and the resulting "shock" transferred into the flesh of living creatures can pulverize, even liquidize flesh and bone. Penetration, on the other hand, can be minimal against "solid" targets and armor, while excessive against softer ones.

I am a lifelong believer in the .45-70, a caliber which dates back to 1873. It is a straight-walled, heavy bullet pushed at low rifle caliber velocities, unless one uses faster, smaller modern incarnations. Almost inexplicably the .45-70 in particular is capable of both extreme range killing power against large, dangerous game as well as up close legendary stopping power. After years of handloading and wildcatting this caliber, I have come to a few solid conclusions about its mythical capabilities. The first: bullet weight, bullet material and bulled design contribute much more to its end result than flashy ballistics comparison charts. Heavy bullet. Effective, specific design. Low velocity. These three factors create a "stopping power" juggernaut capable of matching up to such hallowed and much faster calibers as the .458 Win Mag and .460 Weatherby, in big, dangerous game knock down performance.

Following that line of thought, I recently transitioned away from the venerable and ancient .45-70 to the .50 Beowulf, both for hunting trips to Alaska and up close and personal home defense. While I still admire the .45-70, the 12.7x42mm (.50 Beowulf) retains nearly identical hunting capabilities to the former and is more adaptable to modern rifle platforms with tactical applications. In the .50 Beowulf I can handload up to 700 grain subsonic loads that while moving very slowly hit with the force of a Mack Truck up close and can be suppressed for special purposes.

Those who have stayed the course with .45-70 for large, dangerous game defense and primary hunting tools all seem to have transitioned to carbine length lever guns with polymer furniture and rust proof metal coatings. While such weapons are quite attractive and reliable (Henry, here's looking at you; also: Marlin) I had for years been in search of .45-70 performance in a high capacity, tactical (if I required it) package and new cartridge capable of going mid-high range supersonic, if I so chose, with smaller bullets and flatter trajectories out to 600 yards. In the .50 Beowulf, I've found just that. I can run a 20" barrel upper receiver for better overall ballistics and extreme ranges, or I can run a 10" barrel for home defense and other tactical applications. And I can switch between the two in seconds.

Finally, and more recently, I wanted to find a handgun platform similar in capability to both the .45-70 and .50 Beowulf, in particular with similar up close stopping power, and I have, in the form of revisiting the controversial 10mm. The 10mm is a great mix of good velocity (even better out of long barreled incarnations) and sectional density and mass.

On the other side of the spectrum, I've also taken to experimenting again with 5.7x28mm, both in pistol and AR carbine forms. But, at the end of day—both in tactical self-defense situations and when in pursuit of game animals quite prepared to rip one's face (and limbs) off, the combination of .50 Beowulf and 10mm pistol cannot be beaten. Another good companion to the Beowulf is .44 Special, but that's a bit more complicated.

 

[WinterBorn]

I've seen this video in the past but thought I'd post it for those who may not have seen it.
It came to some very interesting conclusions,some I already knew,and some I wasn't aware of.

I have seen this data before, but it is good to be reminded.

I think the biggest takeaway from this is to go with the handgun you know and are good with, as long as it is not a "mouse cartridge" type.

I do disagree with the idea that a handgun is the best weapon for a bugout. A weapon is not just for defensive use, but also for obtaining food. And the sight of someone carrying a rifle would be a considerable deterrent to someone who is unarmed. The best defensive situation is one in which they bad guys decide you are more trouble than you are worth.

 

[night_son]

I've seen this video in the past but thought I'd post it for those who may not have seen it.
It came to some very interesting conclusions,some I already knew,and some I wasn't aware of.

I have seen this data before, but it is good to be reminded.

I think the biggest takeaway from this is to go with the handgun you know and are good with, as long as it is not a "mouse cartridge" type.

I do disagree with the idea that a handgun is the best weapon for a bugout. A weapon is not just for defensive use, but also for obtaining food. And the sight of someone carrying a rifle would be a considerable deterrent to someone who is unarmed. The best defensive situation is one in which they bad guys decide you are more trouble than you are worth.

Interesting conclusions and I do not disagree with all of them. However, as a primary bugout weapon, a handgun can be a very risky choice. Even an enemy armed with a carbine or shotgun/slug combination would be able to stand you off from out of pistol range, if all you've got is a handgun, unless you are capable of making two hundred yard shots with it. For bugging out a safer bet is an AR-Pistol or even better, paying for the tax stamp to build a short barreled AR rifle. With a 7.5" or shorter barreled AR, one can easily conceal it in a backpack, broken down, and still reach out and touch trouble makers at 300 yards and better. As for caliber to go with in such a weapon? Right now the .300 AAC (Blackout) is, in my opinion, the only way to go. With that caliber one can hunt medium game and defend oneself quite effectively. A final benefit of the SBR platform is interchangeability of upper receivers in many calibers with one lower receiver, on the fly.

 

[Gdjjr]

That is interesting- I want to question distance though- it does make a difference- the 45 acp, as I understand it, was brought into play to penetrate the many layers of clothing worn and the wrapping worn in addition to ward off cold of enemy combatants- it has to be up close and personal to be effective- as in less than 50 ft- preferably in the 10ft or so range- I know a cop in Deer Park who said cops preferred the 45 over the 357 because a 357 would go all the way through an opponent, especially one on PCP (which was a problem at that time)- however, when my brother was a cop he preferred the 357- he and I shot a refrigerator door at a junk yard and it went through it- today I suspect it has to do with capacity (magazine size) as much as anything- and weight of ammo and gun, so many prefer the plastic (composite) over the steel- I like my Ruger sp100 in 357 and I like my 1911- if you miss with either, the noise is pretty effective

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

I've seen this video in the past but thought I'd post it for those who may not have seen it.
It came to some very interesting conclusions,some I already knew,and some I wasn't aware of.

In my own "travels" over the years I have discovered two realities concerning the oft mentioned caliber stopping power controversy. Extremely small grain aerodynamic bullets travelling at high supersonic velocities tend to rip body cavities and ricochet off bones, often amputating impacted extremities such as fingers, arms and even legs. Such projectiles, depending upon the material of their construction, can either deflect off solid targets or penetrate them, and even pop right through thin armor. But the laws of diminishing returns still apply here. Small, fast bullets reach a speed and lack of density where their inability to transfer much kinetic energy becomes their greatest enemy, in regard specifically to their lack of weight.

The second stopping power reality relates to massive "blunt" shaped bullets traveling at lower velocities. Such projectiles, again depending upon the material of their construction and bullet design, can outright knock down the heaviest and largest men and beasts, and the resulting "shock" transferred into the flesh of living creatures can pulverize, even liquidize flesh and bone. Penetration, on the other hand, can be minimal against "solid" targets and armor, while excessive against softer ones.

I am a lifelong believer in the .45-70, a caliber which dates back to 1873. It is a straight-walled, heavy bullet pushed at low rifle caliber velocities, unless one uses faster, smaller modern incarnations. Almost inexplicably the .45-70 in particular is capable of both extreme range killing power against large, dangerous game as well as up close legendary stopping power. After years of handloading and wildcatting this caliber, I have come to a few solid conclusions about its mythical capabilities. The first: bullet weight, bullet material and bulled design contribute much more to its end result than flashy ballistics comparison charts. Heavy bullet. Effective, specific design. Low velocity. These three factors create a "stopping power" juggernaut capable of matching up to such hallowed and much faster calibers as the .458 Win Mag and .460 Weatherby, in big, dangerous game knock down performance.

Following that line of thought, I recently transitioned away from the venerable and ancient .45-70 to the .50 Beowulf, both for hunting trips to Alaska and up close and personal home defense. While I still admire the .45-70, the 12.7x42mm (.50 Beowulf) retains nearly identical hunting capabilities to the former and is more adaptable to modern rifle platforms with tactical applications. In the .50 Beowulf I can handload up to 700 grain subsonic loads that while moving very slowly hit with the force of a Mack Truck up close and can be suppressed for special purposes.

Those who have stayed the course with .45-70 for large, dangerous game defense and primary hunting tools all seem to have transitioned to carbine length lever guns with polymer furniture and rust proof metal coatings. While such weapons are quite attractive and reliable (Henry, here's looking at you; also: Marlin) I had for years been in search of .45-70 performance in a high capacity, tactical (if I required it) package and new cartridge capable of going mid-high range supersonic, if I so chose, with smaller bullets and flatter trajectories out to 600 yards. In the .50 Beowulf, I've found just that. I can run a 20" barrel upper receiver for better overall ballistics and extreme ranges, or I can run a 10" barrel for home defense and other tactical applications. And I can switch between the two in seconds.

Finally, and more recently, I wanted to find a handgun platform similar in capability to both the .45-70 and .50 Beowulf, in particular with similar up close stopping power, and I have, in the form of revisiting the controversial 10mm. The 10mm is a great mix of good velocity (even better out of long barreled incarnations) and sectional density and mass.

On the other side of the spectrum, I've also taken to experimenting again with 5.7x28mm, both in pistol and AR carbine forms. But, at the end of day—both in tactical self-defense situations and when in pursuit of game animals quite prepared to rip one's face (and limbs) off, the combination of .50 Beowulf and 10mm pistol cannot be beaten. Another good companion to the Beowulf is .44 Special, but that's a bit more complicated.

You have to consider hydrostatic shock delivered by rifle rounds,even the smaller ones.
And yeah,I like the big slugs myself in a pistol caliber. They just dump more energy into the target rather than over penetrating.
Which is why I went with the 10mm S&W over the .357 mag in my latest purchase.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

I've seen this video in the past but thought I'd post it for those who may not have seen it.
It came to some very interesting conclusions,some I already knew,and some I wasn't aware of.

I have seen this data before, but it is good to be reminded.

I think the biggest takeaway from this is to go with the handgun you know and are good with, as long as it is not a "mouse cartridge" type.

I do disagree with the idea that a handgun is the best weapon for a bugout. A weapon is not just for defensive use, but also for obtaining food. And the sight of someone carrying a rifle would be a considerable deterrent to someone who is unarmed. The best defensive situation is one in which they bad guys decide you are more trouble than you are worth.

He did cover that.
As mentioned hand guns wont penetrate class 3 body nor do they have the reach of a rifle.
Ideally you should carry both.
And I believe he pretty much shot down the idea that a .22 was a viable choice.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

I've seen this video in the past but thought I'd post it for those who may not have seen it.
It came to some very interesting conclusions,some I already knew,and some I wasn't aware of.

I have seen this data before, but it is good to be reminded.

I think the biggest takeaway from this is to go with the handgun you know and are good with, as long as it is not a "mouse cartridge" type.

I do disagree with the idea that a handgun is the best weapon for a bugout. A weapon is not just for defensive use, but also for obtaining food. And the sight of someone carrying a rifle would be a considerable deterrent to someone who is unarmed. The best defensive situation is one in which they bad guys decide you are more trouble than you are worth.

Interesting conclusions and I do not disagree with all of them. However, as a primary bugout weapon, a handgun can be a very risky choice. Even an enemy armed with a carbine or shotgun/slug combination would be able to stand you off from out of pistol range, if all you've got is a handgun, unless you are capable of making two hundred yard shots with it. For bugging out a safer bet is an AR-Pistol or even better, paying for the tax stamp to build a short barreled AR rifle. With a 7.5" or shorter barreled AR, one can easily conceal it in a backpack, broken down, and still reach out and touch trouble makers at 300 yards and better. As for caliber to go with in such a weapon? Right now the .300 AAC (Blackout) is, in my opinion, the only way to go. With that caliber one can hunt medium game and defend oneself quite effectively. A final benefit of the SBR platform is interchangeability of upper receivers in many calibers with one lower receiver, on the fly.

His conclusions pretty much mirrored my own in a bug out situation.
You need at least a 5.56 in a rifle and nothing less than a 9mm in a handgun.
I'd prefer a bigger caliber in the handgun but ammo availability is an issue.
The .45 wouldn't be a bad choice either since they're almost as readily available as the 9mm.

 

[night_son]

I've seen this video in the past but thought I'd post it for those who may not have seen it.
It came to some very interesting conclusions,some I already knew,and some I wasn't aware of.

In my own "travels" over the years I have discovered two realities concerning the oft mentioned caliber stopping power controversy. Extremely small grain aerodynamic bullets travelling at high supersonic velocities tend to rip body cavities and ricochet off bones, often amputating impacted extremities such as fingers, arms and even legs. Such projectiles, depending upon the material of their construction, can either deflect off solid targets or penetrate them, and even pop right through thin armor. But the laws of diminishing returns still apply here. Small, fast bullets reach a speed and lack of density where their inability to transfer much kinetic energy becomes their greatest enemy, in regard specifically to their lack of weight.

The second stopping power reality relates to massive "blunt" shaped bullets traveling at lower velocities. Such projectiles, again depending upon the material of their construction and bullet design, can outright knock down the heaviest and largest men and beasts, and the resulting "shock" transferred into the flesh of living creatures can pulverize, even liquidize flesh and bone. Penetration, on the other hand, can be minimal against "solid" targets and armor, while excessive against softer ones.

I am a lifelong believer in the .45-70, a caliber which dates back to 1873. It is a straight-walled, heavy bullet pushed at low rifle caliber velocities, unless one uses faster, smaller modern incarnations. Almost inexplicably the .45-70 in particular is capable of both extreme range killing power against large, dangerous game as well as up close legendary stopping power. After years of handloading and wildcatting this caliber, I have come to a few solid conclusions about its mythical capabilities. The first: bullet weight, bullet material and bulled design contribute much more to its end result than flashy ballistics comparison charts. Heavy bullet. Effective, specific design. Low velocity. These three factors create a "stopping power" juggernaut capable of matching up to such hallowed and much faster calibers as the .458 Win Mag and .460 Weatherby, in big, dangerous game knock down performance.

Following that line of thought, I recently transitioned away from the venerable and ancient .45-70 to the .50 Beowulf, both for hunting trips to Alaska and up close and personal home defense. While I still admire the .45-70, the 12.7x42mm (.50 Beowulf) retains nearly identical hunting capabilities to the former and is more adaptable to modern rifle platforms with tactical applications. In the .50 Beowulf I can handload up to 700 grain subsonic loads that while moving very slowly hit with the force of a Mack Truck up close and can be suppressed for special purposes.

Those who have stayed the course with .45-70 for large, dangerous game defense and primary hunting tools all seem to have transitioned to carbine length lever guns with polymer furniture and rust proof metal coatings. While such weapons are quite attractive and reliable (Henry, here's looking at you; also: Marlin) I had for years been in search of .45-70 performance in a high capacity, tactical (if I required it) package and new cartridge capable of going mid-high range supersonic, if I so chose, with smaller bullets and flatter trajectories out to 600 yards. In the .50 Beowulf, I've found just that. I can run a 20" barrel upper receiver for better overall ballistics and extreme ranges, or I can run a 10" barrel for home defense and other tactical applications. And I can switch between the two in seconds.

Finally, and more recently, I wanted to find a handgun platform similar in capability to both the .45-70 and .50 Beowulf, in particular with similar up close stopping power, and I have, in the form of revisiting the controversial 10mm. The 10mm is a great mix of good velocity (even better out of long barreled incarnations) and sectional density and mass.

On the other side of the spectrum, I've also taken to experimenting again with 5.7x28mm, both in pistol and AR carbine forms. But, at the end of day—both in tactical self-defense situations and when in pursuit of game animals quite prepared to rip one's face (and limbs) off, the combination of .50 Beowulf and 10mm pistol cannot be beaten. Another good companion to the Beowulf is .44 Special, but that's a bit more complicated.

You have to consider hydrostatic shock delivered by rifle rounds,even the smaller ones.
And yeah,I like the big slugs myself in a pistol caliber. They just dump more energy into the target rather than over penetrating.
Which is why I went with the 10mm S&W over the .357 mag in my latest purchase.
View attachment 417228

One of my .50's . . .

 

[night_son]

That is interesting- I want to question distance though- it does make a difference- the 45 acp, as I understand it, was brought into play to penetrate the many layers of clothing worn and the wrapping worn in addition to ward off cold of enemy combatants- it has to be up close and personal to be effective- as in less than 50 ft- preferably in the 10ft or so range- I know a cop in Deer Park who said cops preferred the 45 over the 357 because a 357 would go all the way through an opponent, especially one on PCP (which was a problem at that time)- however, when my brother was a cop he preferred the 357- he and I shot a refrigerator door at a junk yard and it went through it- today I suspect it has to do with capacity (magazine size) as much as anything- and weight of ammo and gun, so many prefer the plastic (composite) over the steel- I like my Ruger sp100 in 357 and I like my 1911- if you miss with either, the noise is pretty effective

When I arrived at my first Army duty station in 1991 my unit was still issuing APC drivers the M3 Grease Gun, amazingly enough. I loved that thing. It could fit easily through the driver's hatch when body slung and came up to my shoulder very naturally. While I never had the opportunity to use it against a live target, it goes without saying a short burst of .45ACP would have stopped just about anyone or anything. The only downsides were effective range and firing from an open bolt, which I despise. For some reason, after my unit mothballed the M3, they issued me an M203/M16A2 which was a real bitch to get through the driver's hatch. The sane thing to do would have been to issue us drivers MP5s but only the high speed guys got those at the time.

 

[WinterBorn]

I've seen this video in the past but thought I'd post it for those who may not have seen it.
It came to some very interesting conclusions,some I already knew,and some I wasn't aware of.

I have seen this data before, but it is good to be reminded.

I think the biggest takeaway from this is to go with the handgun you know and are good with, as long as it is not a "mouse cartridge" type.

I do disagree with the idea that a handgun is the best weapon for a bugout. A weapon is not just for defensive use, but also for obtaining food. And the sight of someone carrying a rifle would be a considerable deterrent to someone who is unarmed. The best defensive situation is one in which they bad guys decide you are more trouble than you are worth.

Interesting conclusions and I do not disagree with all of them. However, as a primary bugout weapon, a handgun can be a very risky choice. Even an enemy armed with a carbine or shotgun/slug combination would be able to stand you off from out of pistol range, if all you've got is a handgun, unless you are capable of making two hundred yard shots with it. For bugging out a safer bet is an AR-Pistol or even better, paying for the tax stamp to build a short barreled AR rifle. With a 7.5" or shorter barreled AR, one can easily conceal it in a backpack, broken down, and still reach out and touch trouble makers at 300 yards and better. As for caliber to go with in such a weapon? Right now the .300 AAC (Blackout) is, in my opinion, the only way to go. With that caliber one can hunt medium game and defend oneself quite effectively. A final benefit of the SBR platform is interchangeability of upper receivers in many calibers with one lower receiver, on the fly.

His conclusions pretty much mirrored my own in a bug out situation.
You need at least a 5.56 in a rifle and nothing less than a 9mm in a handgun.
I'd prefer a bigger caliber in the handgun but ammo availability is an issue.
The .45 wouldn't be a bad choice either since they're almost as readily available as the 9mm.

I like my M1911 because it handles and points naturally for me. I have fired many other semis, but none felt right. I know the caliber is adequate for the task. And it works.

As for a bugout gun, I like a rifle. As someone said, I can engage at ranges that make a handgun ineffective. But I do prefer a .308 over a .223.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

I've seen this video in the past but thought I'd post it for those who may not have seen it.
It came to some very interesting conclusions,some I already knew,and some I wasn't aware of.

I have seen this data before, but it is good to be reminded.

I think the biggest takeaway from this is to go with the handgun you know and are good with, as long as it is not a "mouse cartridge" type.

I do disagree with the idea that a handgun is the best weapon for a bugout. A weapon is not just for defensive use, but also for obtaining food. And the sight of someone carrying a rifle would be a considerable deterrent to someone who is unarmed. The best defensive situation is one in which they bad guys decide you are more trouble than you are worth.

Interesting conclusions and I do not disagree with all of them. However, as a primary bugout weapon, a handgun can be a very risky choice. Even an enemy armed with a carbine or shotgun/slug combination would be able to stand you off from out of pistol range, if all you've got is a handgun, unless you are capable of making two hundred yard shots with it. For bugging out a safer bet is an AR-Pistol or even better, paying for the tax stamp to build a short barreled AR rifle. With a 7.5" or shorter barreled AR, one can easily conceal it in a backpack, broken down, and still reach out and touch trouble makers at 300 yards and better. As for caliber to go with in such a weapon? Right now the .300 AAC (Blackout) is, in my opinion, the only way to go. With that caliber one can hunt medium game and defend oneself quite effectively. A final benefit of the SBR platform is interchangeability of upper receivers in many calibers with one lower receiver, on the fly.

His conclusions pretty much mirrored my own in a bug out situation.
You need at least a 5.56 in a rifle and nothing less than a 9mm in a handgun.
I'd prefer a bigger caliber in the handgun but ammo availability is an issue.
The .45 wouldn't be a bad choice either since they're almost as readily available as the 9mm.

I like my M1911 because it handles and points naturally for me. I have fired many other semis, but none felt right. I know the caliber is adequate for the task. And it works.

As for a bugout gun, I like a rifle. As someone said, I can engage at ranges that make a handgun ineffective. But I do prefer a .308 over a .223.

Yep.
I love my FNX .45 Tactical since it holds 15 + 1 in the chamber.
The AR is enough to penetrate body armor and I can carry more rounds.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

That is interesting- I want to question distance though- it does make a difference- the 45 acp, as I understand it, was brought into play to penetrate the many layers of clothing worn and the wrapping worn in addition to ward off cold of enemy combatants- it has to be up close and personal to be effective- as in less than 50 ft- preferably in the 10ft or so range- I know a cop in Deer Park who said cops preferred the 45 over the 357 because a 357 would go all the way through an opponent, especially one on PCP (which was a problem at that time)- however, when my brother was a cop he preferred the 357- he and I shot a refrigerator door at a junk yard and it went through it- today I suspect it has to do with capacity (magazine size) as much as anything- and weight of ammo and gun, so many prefer the plastic (composite) over the steel- I like my Ruger sp100 in 357 and I like my 1911- if you miss with either, the noise is pretty effective

When I arrived at my first Army duty station in 1991 my unit was still issuing APC drivers the M3 Grease Gun, amazingly enough. I loved that thing. It could fit easily through the driver's hatch when body slung and came up to my shoulder very naturally. While I never had the opportunity to use it against a live target, it goes without saying a short burst of .45ACP would have stopped just about anyone or anything. The only downsides were effective range and firing from an open bolt, which I despise. For some reason, after my unit mothballed the M3, they issued me an M203/M16A2 which was a real bitch to get through the driver's hatch. The sane thing to do would have been to issue us drivers MP5s but only the high speed guys got those at the time.

You caught it at the end of its service life.

 

[WinterBorn]

I've seen this video in the past but thought I'd post it for those who may not have seen it.
It came to some very interesting conclusions,some I already knew,and some I wasn't aware of.

I have seen this data before, but it is good to be reminded.

I think the biggest takeaway from this is to go with the handgun you know and are good with, as long as it is not a "mouse cartridge" type.

I do disagree with the idea that a handgun is the best weapon for a bugout. A weapon is not just for defensive use, but also for obtaining food. And the sight of someone carrying a rifle would be a considerable deterrent to someone who is unarmed. The best defensive situation is one in which they bad guys decide you are more trouble than you are worth.

Interesting conclusions and I do not disagree with all of them. However, as a primary bugout weapon, a handgun can be a very risky choice. Even an enemy armed with a carbine or shotgun/slug combination would be able to stand you off from out of pistol range, if all you've got is a handgun, unless you are capable of making two hundred yard shots with it. For bugging out a safer bet is an AR-Pistol or even better, paying for the tax stamp to build a short barreled AR rifle. With a 7.5" or shorter barreled AR, one can easily conceal it in a backpack, broken down, and still reach out and touch trouble makers at 300 yards and better. As for caliber to go with in such a weapon? Right now the .300 AAC (Blackout) is, in my opinion, the only way to go. With that caliber one can hunt medium game and defend oneself quite effectively. A final benefit of the SBR platform is interchangeability of upper receivers in many calibers with one lower receiver, on the fly.

His conclusions pretty much mirrored my own in a bug out situation.
You need at least a 5.56 in a rifle and nothing less than a 9mm in a handgun.
I'd prefer a bigger caliber in the handgun but ammo availability is an issue.
The .45 wouldn't be a bad choice either since they're almost as readily available as the 9mm.

I like my M1911 because it handles and points naturally for me. I have fired many other semis, but none felt right. I know the caliber is adequate for the task. And it works.

As for a bugout gun, I like a rifle. As someone said, I can engage at ranges that make a handgun ineffective. But I do prefer a .308 over a .223.

Yep.
I love my FNX .45 Tactical since it holds 15 + 1 in the chamber.
The AR is enough to penetrate body armor and I can carry more rounds.

Oh I know. And the .308 I have is a heavy, long rifle. But I can reach out and touch something a long way out.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

I've seen this video in the past but thought I'd post it for those who may not have seen it.
It came to some very interesting conclusions,some I already knew,and some I wasn't aware of.

I have seen this data before, but it is good to be reminded.

I think the biggest takeaway from this is to go with the handgun you know and are good with, as long as it is not a "mouse cartridge" type.

I do disagree with the idea that a handgun is the best weapon for a bugout. A weapon is not just for defensive use, but also for obtaining food. And the sight of someone carrying a rifle would be a considerable deterrent to someone who is unarmed. The best defensive situation is one in which they bad guys decide you are more trouble than you are worth.

Interesting conclusions and I do not disagree with all of them. However, as a primary bugout weapon, a handgun can be a very risky choice. Even an enemy armed with a carbine or shotgun/slug combination would be able to stand you off from out of pistol range, if all you've got is a handgun, unless you are capable of making two hundred yard shots with it. For bugging out a safer bet is an AR-Pistol or even better, paying for the tax stamp to build a short barreled AR rifle. With a 7.5" or shorter barreled AR, one can easily conceal it in a backpack, broken down, and still reach out and touch trouble makers at 300 yards and better. As for caliber to go with in such a weapon? Right now the .300 AAC (Blackout) is, in my opinion, the only way to go. With that caliber one can hunt medium game and defend oneself quite effectively. A final benefit of the SBR platform is interchangeability of upper receivers in many calibers with one lower receiver, on the fly.

His conclusions pretty much mirrored my own in a bug out situation.
You need at least a 5.56 in a rifle and nothing less than a 9mm in a handgun.
I'd prefer a bigger caliber in the handgun but ammo availability is an issue.
The .45 wouldn't be a bad choice either since they're almost as readily available as the 9mm.

I like my M1911 because it handles and points naturally for me. I have fired many other semis, but none felt right. I know the caliber is adequate for the task. And it works.

As for a bugout gun, I like a rifle. As someone said, I can engage at ranges that make a handgun ineffective. But I do prefer a .308 over a .223.

Yep.
I love my FNX .45 Tactical since it holds 15 + 1 in the chamber.
The AR is enough to penetrate body armor and I can carry more rounds.

Oh I know. And the .308 I have is a heavy, long rifle. But I can reach out and touch something a long way out.

The AR is effective out to 400 yards.
Good enough for me.

 

[Gdjjr]

My oldest son has killed feral hogs at 200 or so yards with his AR15- them suckers are tough!

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

My oldest son has killed feral hogs at 200 or so yards with his AR15- them suckers are tough!

Especially with the new Swine Smasher ammo.
You do need to switch out your AR barrel but thats it.

Hog Hunting In Texas W/The 25-45 Sharps Swine Smasher » Survival Nation

**WARNING** This video contains images of hog hunting for food (not “sport”), if this offends you, you’re in the wrong place and you can simply click away and don’t watch. In the video below they visit the beautiful Independence Ranch outside of Austin, TX to do a little hog hunting

survivalnation.com

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

I've seen this video in the past but thought I'd post it for those who may not have seen it.
It came to some very interesting conclusions,some I already knew,and some I wasn't aware of.

I have seen this data before, but it is good to be reminded.

I think the biggest takeaway from this is to go with the handgun you know and are good with, as long as it is not a "mouse cartridge" type.

I do disagree with the idea that a handgun is the best weapon for a bugout. A weapon is not just for defensive use, but also for obtaining food. And the sight of someone carrying a rifle would be a considerable deterrent to someone who is unarmed. The best defensive situation is one in which they bad guys decide you are more trouble than you are worth.

Interesting conclusions and I do not disagree with all of them. However, as a primary bugout weapon, a handgun can be a very risky choice. Even an enemy armed with a carbine or shotgun/slug combination would be able to stand you off from out of pistol range, if all you've got is a handgun, unless you are capable of making two hundred yard shots with it. For bugging out a safer bet is an AR-Pistol or even better, paying for the tax stamp to build a short barreled AR rifle. With a 7.5" or shorter barreled AR, one can easily conceal it in a backpack, broken down, and still reach out and touch trouble makers at 300 yards and better. As for caliber to go with in such a weapon? Right now the .300 AAC (Blackout) is, in my opinion, the only way to go. With that caliber one can hunt medium game and defend oneself quite effectively. A final benefit of the SBR platform is interchangeability of upper receivers in many calibers with one lower receiver, on the fly.

His conclusions pretty much mirrored my own in a bug out situation.
You need at least a 5.56 in a rifle and nothing less than a 9mm in a handgun.
I'd prefer a bigger caliber in the handgun but ammo availability is an issue.
The .45 wouldn't be a bad choice either since they're almost as readily available as the 9mm.

I like my M1911 because it handles and points naturally for me. I have fired many other semis, but none felt right. I know the caliber is adequate for the task. And it works.

As for a bugout gun, I like a rifle. As someone said, I can engage at ranges that make a handgun ineffective. But I do prefer a .308 over a .223.

Yep.
I love my FNX .45 Tactical since it holds 15 + 1 in the chamber.
The AR is enough to penetrate body armor and I can carry more rounds.

Oh I know. And the .308 I have is a heavy, long rifle. But I can reach out and touch something a long way out.

I got a .270 for that.
Of course it's a bolt gun.
If I had to pick one I'd take the AR.

 

[TroglocratsRdumb]

I've seen this video in the past but thought I'd post it for those who may not have seen it.
It came to some very interesting conclusions,some I already knew,and some I wasn't aware of.

In my own "travels" over the years I have discovered two realities concerning the oft mentioned caliber stopping power controversy. Extremely small grain aerodynamic bullets travelling at high supersonic velocities tend to rip body cavities and ricochet off bones, often amputating impacted extremities such as fingers, arms and even legs. Such projectiles, depending upon the material of their construction, can either deflect off solid targets or penetrate them, and even pop right through thin armor. But the laws of diminishing returns still apply here. Small, fast bullets reach a speed and lack of density where their inability to transfer much kinetic energy becomes their greatest enemy, in regard specifically to their lack of weight.

The second stopping power reality relates to massive "blunt" shaped bullets traveling at lower velocities. Such projectiles, again depending upon the material of their construction and bullet design, can outright knock down the heaviest and largest men and beasts, and the resulting "shock" transferred into the flesh of living creatures can pulverize, even liquidize flesh and bone. Penetration, on the other hand, can be minimal against "solid" targets and armor, while excessive against softer ones.

I am a lifelong believer in the .45-70, a caliber which dates back to 1873. It is a straight-walled, heavy bullet pushed at low rifle caliber velocities, unless one uses faster, smaller modern incarnations. Almost inexplicably the .45-70 in particular is capable of both extreme range killing power against large, dangerous game as well as up close legendary stopping power. After years of handloading and wildcatting this caliber, I have come to a few solid conclusions about its mythical capabilities. The first: bullet weight, bullet material and bulled design contribute much more to its end result than flashy ballistics comparison charts. Heavy bullet. Effective, specific design. Low velocity. These three factors create a "stopping power" juggernaut capable of matching up to such hallowed and much faster calibers as the .458 Win Mag and .460 Weatherby, in big, dangerous game knock down performance.

Following that line of thought, I recently transitioned away from the venerable and ancient .45-70 to the .50 Beowulf, both for hunting trips to Alaska and up close and personal home defense. While I still admire the .45-70, the 12.7x42mm (.50 Beowulf) retains nearly identical hunting capabilities to the former and is more adaptable to modern rifle platforms with tactical applications. In the .50 Beowulf I can handload up to 700 grain subsonic loads that while moving very slowly hit with the force of a Mack Truck up close and can be suppressed for special purposes.

Those who have stayed the course with .45-70 for large, dangerous game defense and primary hunting tools all seem to have transitioned to carbine length lever guns with polymer furniture and rust proof metal coatings. While such weapons are quite attractive and reliable (Henry, here's looking at you; also: Marlin) I had for years been in search of .45-70 performance in a high capacity, tactical (if I required it) package and new cartridge capable of going mid-high range supersonic, if I so chose, with smaller bullets and flatter trajectories out to 600 yards. In the .50 Beowulf, I've found just that. I can run a 20" barrel upper receiver for better overall ballistics and extreme ranges, or I can run a 10" barrel for home defense and other tactical applications. And I can switch between the two in seconds.

Finally, and more recently, I wanted to find a handgun platform similar in capability to both the .45-70 and .50 Beowulf, in particular with similar up close stopping power, and I have, in the form of revisiting the controversial 10mm. The 10mm is a great mix of good velocity (even better out of long barreled incarnations) and sectional density and mass.

On the other side of the spectrum, I've also taken to experimenting again with 5.7x28mm, both in pistol and AR carbine forms. But, at the end of day—both in tactical self-defense situations and when in pursuit of game animals quite prepared to rip one's face (and limbs) off, the combination of .50 Beowulf and 10mm pistol cannot be beaten. Another good companion to the Beowulf is .44 Special, but that's a bit more complicated.

The old colt peace maker .44-40 used on the western frontier was a powerful round.
It was used in both rifles and 6 shooters.
It has about 600lbs of energy.

.44-40 Winchester - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[WinterBorn]

I've seen this video in the past but thought I'd post it for those who may not have seen it.
It came to some very interesting conclusions,some I already knew,and some I wasn't aware of.

In my own "travels" over the years I have discovered two realities concerning the oft mentioned caliber stopping power controversy. Extremely small grain aerodynamic bullets travelling at high supersonic velocities tend to rip body cavities and ricochet off bones, often amputating impacted extremities such as fingers, arms and even legs. Such projectiles, depending upon the material of their construction, can either deflect off solid targets or penetrate them, and even pop right through thin armor. But the laws of diminishing returns still apply here. Small, fast bullets reach a speed and lack of density where their inability to transfer much kinetic energy becomes their greatest enemy, in regard specifically to their lack of weight.

The second stopping power reality relates to massive "blunt" shaped bullets traveling at lower velocities. Such projectiles, again depending upon the material of their construction and bullet design, can outright knock down the heaviest and largest men and beasts, and the resulting "shock" transferred into the flesh of living creatures can pulverize, even liquidize flesh and bone. Penetration, on the other hand, can be minimal against "solid" targets and armor, while excessive against softer ones.

I am a lifelong believer in the .45-70, a caliber which dates back to 1873. It is a straight-walled, heavy bullet pushed at low rifle caliber velocities, unless one uses faster, smaller modern incarnations. Almost inexplicably the .45-70 in particular is capable of both extreme range killing power against large, dangerous game as well as up close legendary stopping power. After years of handloading and wildcatting this caliber, I have come to a few solid conclusions about its mythical capabilities. The first: bullet weight, bullet material and bulled design contribute much more to its end result than flashy ballistics comparison charts. Heavy bullet. Effective, specific design. Low velocity. These three factors create a "stopping power" juggernaut capable of matching up to such hallowed and much faster calibers as the .458 Win Mag and .460 Weatherby, in big, dangerous game knock down performance.

Following that line of thought, I recently transitioned away from the venerable and ancient .45-70 to the .50 Beowulf, both for hunting trips to Alaska and up close and personal home defense. While I still admire the .45-70, the 12.7x42mm (.50 Beowulf) retains nearly identical hunting capabilities to the former and is more adaptable to modern rifle platforms with tactical applications. In the .50 Beowulf I can handload up to 700 grain subsonic loads that while moving very slowly hit with the force of a Mack Truck up close and can be suppressed for special purposes.

Those who have stayed the course with .45-70 for large, dangerous game defense and primary hunting tools all seem to have transitioned to carbine length lever guns with polymer furniture and rust proof metal coatings. While such weapons are quite attractive and reliable (Henry, here's looking at you; also: Marlin) I had for years been in search of .45-70 performance in a high capacity, tactical (if I required it) package and new cartridge capable of going mid-high range supersonic, if I so chose, with smaller bullets and flatter trajectories out to 600 yards. In the .50 Beowulf, I've found just that. I can run a 20" barrel upper receiver for better overall ballistics and extreme ranges, or I can run a 10" barrel for home defense and other tactical applications. And I can switch between the two in seconds.

Finally, and more recently, I wanted to find a handgun platform similar in capability to both the .45-70 and .50 Beowulf, in particular with similar up close stopping power, and I have, in the form of revisiting the controversial 10mm. The 10mm is a great mix of good velocity (even better out of long barreled incarnations) and sectional density and mass.

On the other side of the spectrum, I've also taken to experimenting again with 5.7x28mm, both in pistol and AR carbine forms. But, at the end of day—both in tactical self-defense situations and when in pursuit of game animals quite prepared to rip one's face (and limbs) off, the combination of .50 Beowulf and 10mm pistol cannot be beaten. Another good companion to the Beowulf is .44 Special, but that's a bit more complicated.

The old colt peace maker .44-40 used on the western frontier was a powerful round.
It was used in both rifles and 6 shooters.
It has about 600lbs of energy.

.44-40 Winchester - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I've always wanted a single action revolver and lever action rifle in 44-40. Just never could justify the expense.